THE SPIRIT WAS THERE, BUT ...

[Chook 15,013]

I think the biggest positive to come out of tonight's game was the fact that Mitch Clark got up and walked off the ground - I was seating fairly close to where it happened and when he landed, it looked pretty ordinary.

I

It honestly looked like he could have killed himself doing that. Then where would we be? But Clarky's made out of rubber, so he got up fine.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Chook

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

Someone was saying last night he's better than NicNat. I laughed. NicNat has something that elevates him miles above Watts: appetite for the contest. Watts's miss from dead in from was bad, the dropped mark was pathetic, Morton-like. Symptomatic of the team.

That was me, and he is better than Nik Nat. Dont be fooled by the athletisism and the dread locks, he goes missing for massive patches and it is his sheer speed and spring that makes him look so electifying. watts is a student of the game, Nat is a jack in the box surrounded by class

[Sir Why You Little 37,039]

Exactly. Get the basics right first, the 1%'s, the chasing, the tackling the head down - arse up stuff that will inspire teammates, rather than bewilder them.

Then the pride will return to the players, & it will show, & then we will feel the intensity rise & good footy will start to flow.

But Shouldn't Professional AFL Players have these basics engrained in there system already...they all came through the same feeder comps..

This is the part that worries me...our list is not even second nature with basics.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Bail has been poor this year but today showed some improvement - another positive!

Some of the boys who had interrupted Pre seasons, are starting to work up some match fitness & starting to find the ball & some confidence. Many of these are senior players too.

[dee-luded 2,959]

That was me, and he is better than Nik Nat. Dont be fooled by the athletisism and the dread locks, he goes missing for massive patches and it is his sheer speed and spring that makes him look so electifying. watts is a student of the game, Nat is a jack in the box surrounded by class

Wattsy is talented, & will make it.

But he has to stop watching Basketball, if thats what he's doing in his spare time. He keeps trying to guard space in front of the opposition ball carrier, like he's a basketballer who isn't allowed to tackle.

Go get him Jack & bring him to ground as well.

Stop this Intuitive guarding.

Get the ball or get the man.

[dee-luded 2,959]

But Shouldn't Professional AFL Players have these basics engrained in there system already...they all came through the same feeder comps..

This is the part that worries me...our list is not even second nature with basics.

Well apply that reason the the Western Bulldogs.

Apply it to the GCSuns.

Apply it to Port & the Tiges. They are only 1 game above us. They are also struggling with they're rebuilds & the Tiges have kept they're coach. Contested footy is back & it's tough on young bodies.

[mrtwister 652]

But Shouldn't Professional AFL Players have these basics engrained in there system already...they all came through the same feeder comps..

This is the part that worries me...our list is not even second nature with basics.

A fair number of our players are high draft picks. To be high draft picks they would have stood out in junior football. Probably because of their high possession counts and attacking footy. Not many would get drafted for 1%ers, chasing etc. because they probably never needed to do those things a lot. One of the coaches a couple of weeks ago said it's tough getting this stuff into the young players these days because a lot of them have never needed to be defensive oriented because they usually got the footy first at junior level.

[Pates 9,660]

Positives:

Bate - has his critics and many will argue has no place going forward, but he was among our best today. Kicked two goals when needed and did little wrong

Howe - again put his skills on show, I question what his role should be though. We appear to be using him in the Center, I think a bloke that can take a mark like him should be forward of the centre

Clarke - did the jumper and his number very proud, hasn't done too much wrong since arriving. Really hope he's alright.

Davey - still not a great game from him, but his two goals turned back the clock, hopefully it'll give him confidence

Negatives:

Accuracy - we kicked ourselves out of the game well before 3 quarter time. We could've/should've won this if it wasnt for some poor kicking at goal

Hitting targets - some absolutely VFL ressies standard disposal today, these guys are getting very well paid and they can't do basics. If some of the guys were on accuracy based contracts they'd be heading to centrelink every week

Concentration lapses - we again showed how vulnerable we are to these lapses in concentration. 1 point behind, with all the momentum and they somehow managed to squeeze 2 goals at the end, then 2 quick ones to kill the game. Switch the F on!!!!!

Some points on two specific players who have been singled out (not unfairly IMO) in the thread.

Morton - he looks a much better player if takes the first option, particularly by foot. He wins the loose ball but over thinks the situation way too much. If he has it for more than a second we're screwed, he will turn it over. Kick the effing thing long, short kicks and handballs will be a turnover most of the time. My opinion, he ain't got it.

Joel MacDonald - like his endeavour and his hardness but his disposal has because a liability, simple. I'd fell more comfortable with the ball in Jake Spencer's hands than his, and that's saying something. Negatives outweigh his positives, if he is truly in our current best 22, then we're in a huge amount of trouble.

These two should not be in a Dees jumper next week, simple as that.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Pates

[grant 10]

Someone was saying last night he's better than NicNat. I laughed. NicNat has something that elevates him miles above Watts: appetite for the contest. Watts's miss from dead in from was bad, the dropped mark was pathetic, Morton-like. Symptomatic of the team.

Watts is 21 and will improve under Neeld. NicNat came into the AFL ready-made and so there is no comparison at this stage. I still believe will become an elite player, not a dominant forward, but more in the mold of Goddard.

I would select him ahead of NicNat who is will be an elite ruckman for the next decade, but you dont waste top picks on ruckmen. They can be easily acquired by trade or discovered late in the draft. If it was draft day 2008 and I was calling the shots it would be between Watts, Hurley & Rich, with Hurley taking the cake (just).

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Neeld's decision, together with the dreary kicks along the boundary line. Trengove is 20 or so. No way he should be burdened with the responsibility.

The coach is a loose cannon. All mouth and drama and surprised when it blows up.

People can talk cattle all they want. Melbourne of 2011 would've beaten that Doggies outfit, that's how bad the dogs are. We also had the emotional drive. To lose that is shattering. To look at the rounds ahead is depressing.

Probably the dumbest post I have read all year. And that says something.

Demonland's Tea Party element is starting to raise its stunningly enlightened head.

[mauriesy 7,297]

It's easy to pick on some players wthout understanding their role. And it's sloppy analysis to just pick on the usual whipping boys.

I thought the positives today were contested ball, tackling and the way that for quite long passages of time they successfully locked the ball in the forward line with a good press, especially in the third quarter.

The negatives were skill errors by hand and foot, and consequently turnovers.

The Western Bulldogs had only two players with disposal efficiency below 60%. We had 11. That means half our team is either turning the ball over or sending it to a contested situation nearly one out of every two times they get the ball.

Edited April 22, 2012 by maurie

[Ned 156]

Watts is 21 and will improve under Neeld. NicNat came into the AFL ready-made and so there is no comparison at this stage. I still believe will become an elite player, not a dominant forward, but more in the mold of Goddard.

I would select him ahead of NicNat who is will be an elite ruckman for the next decade, but you dont waste top picks on ruckmen. They can be easily acquired by trade or discovered late in the draft. If it was draft day 2008 and I was calling the shots it would be between Watts, Hurley & Rich, with Hurley taking the cake (just).

Yeah I'd go Hurley too, another player who loves the contest. Sorry, Watts often looks like a more accomplished Morton. Not always, sometimes he has a real go. But it doesn't seem to be a natural instinct.

[Ned 156]

Probably the dumbest post I have read all year. And that says something.

Demonland's Tea Party element is starting to raise its stunningly enlightened head.

You keep those tinted glasses on chief. Trengove look like he's thriving to you? Melbourne look like the toughest team to play? One minute the tough as nails press conference the next finding positives in 10-goal shellackings to Richmond? What top team outside Collingwood in 2010 is playing the boundary-contest game? And Collingwood of course abandoned it.

I'm all for reasonable expectations. I don't see the dogs as a good team. They're rubbish. We had everything to play for and came up well short. Revel in the 29-point loss Ron.

[Sir Why You Little 37,039]

Well apply that reason the the Western Bulldogs.

Apply it to the GCSuns.

Apply it to Port & the Tiges. They are only 1 game above us. They are also struggling with they're rebuilds & the Tiges have kept they're coach. Contested footy is back & it's tough on young bodies.

But every club has young bodies. Our players should not be treated differently. When the basics are not second nature, the club is at fault here. I know the football dept is working now, but it must have been a total shambles behind closed doors last year. Edited April 22, 2012 by why you little

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,177]

Where did I blame Morton for the loss?

You know the difference between Dunn, Macdonald and Morton?

Morton is bloody talented and does so much right but he is so goddamn apathetic sometimes that he makes lazy mistakes and it ruins his game.

Hooray to him, he worked hard. What a shocker for a Melbourne player.

He is damn frustrating and he isn't alone, he is just much more talented than many of his teammates and he deserves some tough love. He's cruised along for too many years doing nothing. He is better than that.

You summarise the game and you name one player for criticism. Morton was far and away the least of our problems today.

[mauriesy 7,297]

I don't see the dogs as a good team. They're rubbish.

The Bulldogs don't have a great forward line, nor a particularly strong defence. But if someone offered to transplant Griffen, Boyd, Cooney, Hargrave, Cross and Murphy into our midfield, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

[Hank the Tank 22]

Pretty amazed at the negative comments in this thread! The last 3 weeks have been an absolute disgrace, and we are deservedely 2nd bottom of the ladder. Don't expect us to turn it around in 1 week and play like a top 8 team. We are clearly terrible at the moment, because we are essentially starting from scratch again... GET USED TO IT!

those who made comments along the lines of "bring back bailey".... Don't even waste my time with your useless comments. 4 years and the best he could do was 12th.

We weren't great today, but we were better than last week, and last week we were better than the week before that. We are improving game by game, it's pretty obvious.

Now with that said, a few observations about tonight game.

Morton....Morton, Morton. Probably my most hated player BUT..... aside from 2 massive clanger kicks and a missed handball, he was actually OK. Took the game on a lot more especially in the last quarter, provided a bit of run that we desperately lack this year. The door cracks open and i see a sliver of light....

Davey. Best game i've seen from him in a long time, attacked the ball, dove into packs, 2nd and 3rd efforts, and put his body on the line in a marking contest against an opponent twice his size (he lost the contest but he tried!) I think Neeld may have finally gotten through to him. oh, and amaazing goal from the boundary on his non-preferred side. Gained a lot more confidence tonight.

Bail playing half decent for the first time since his injury last year. Good signs coz we really need his pace.

Beamer. Proved how much we missed him tonight. Although a bash and crash type, he's one of our most poised midfielders (says a lot about our midfield...) Need him there to step up as a senior for our young blokes.

And Mitch. Looks like he's getting the hang of being the teams power forward. Intent is great, and his marks are sticking. very good signs. Hope his neck is OK. He is one tough man.

All signs of improvement

Oh, and Trengove is doing just fine don't worry about that. Can't believe how many of you have written him off. Speed or more specifically acceleration, isn't the only thing that makes great footballers. Look at Simon Black! Jack is a smart footballer, hard at it, and has been in our top 5 every game this year. The captaincy is not weighing him down.

A few things that worry me: Our backline in general. Frawley always plays well bar a few hiccups here and there, Riv was great tonight, and the intent shown by the entire defence was good. But the disposal by most of our defenders is letting us down big time. Young mac and old mac are making bad decisions and poor disposal efficiency. Bartram is treading water and is a horrible kick. Garlands disposal of late is ordinary as well. We really need Strauss back in there to fill that void slightly. But not sure what else we are supposed to do there but draft ......

We'll get there.... eventually.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Hank the Tank

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,177]

It probably was our best for the year but Morton was certainly not ok. Look at his body language and the intensity of his attack on the ball. A couple of half-hearted attempts at physicality but nothing of the standard required.

6 tackles. 6 clearances, 8 contested possessions.

[dee-luded 2,959]

But every club has young bodies. Our players should not be treated differently. When the basics are not second nature, the club is at fault here. I know the football dept is working now, but it must have been a total shambles behind closed doors last year.

No, not treated differently.

But when Way Down, you have to understand whats going on to create that, & how to go about rectifying the problems. But not take any shortcuts that will come back to bite.

We are On the right track. Just a hiccup this year so far.

[Sir Why You Little 37,039]

Cale Morton was not the problem today. More games like today will only make him better

[Sir Why You Little 37,039]

No, not treated differently.

But when Way Down, you have to understand whats going on to create that, & how to go about rectifying the problems. But not take any shortcuts that will come back to bite.

We are On the right track. Just a hiccup this year so far.

I have no problem with being on track. I am just dumbfounded as to how bad the club has been allowed to become in a relatively short time.

[DirtyDees DDC 176]

Did anyone else notice that Howe was limping in the 3rd Quarter? His calf and ankle were heavily strapped. Then he got rid of the strapping in the last quarter.

[H_T 3,047]

Yes, but he gets around it in other ways.

At the moment, for me this is the one big thing holding Trengove back. It's his acceleration mainly which is the big concern, he needs to work on his first five steps.

Like the first five steps where he chased down Dahlhaus and caught him holding the ball ? Dahlhaus must be a slouch too....

No, i am actually looking at the opposition teams within the AFL and realizing how far back we now are.

Only now realising ? Surely you and some other uneducated here with misinformed views must think 2011 didn't even exist !

I think the biggest positive to come out of tonight's game was the fact that Mitch Clark got up and walked off the ground - I was seating fairly close to where it happened and when he landed, it looked pretty ordinary.

Good call jumbo. I cringed, and cringed again when I saw the Doc urgently call for the stretcher. I hope he is ok.

We were playing the westies who are on the brink of starting their fall to the depths....We should have put the sword to them for that reason.

Have a look at the class they have in their side, then try and identify our class in the midfield at Melbourne, then get back to me.

I stated during the week, it will be the midfield again and their class that will come out and shine.

Cooney, Boyd, Griffen, Dahlhaus. Two of those kicked goals and I gave 3 and 2 votes respectively in Cooney and Dahlhaus.

yeah, 8 kicks and 2 handballs. He was mad!

And his opponent ?

I have no problem with being on track. I am just dumbfounded as to how bad the club has been allowed to become in a relatively short time.

Define short time ?

[13thFlagIsComing 542]

Memo to the Melbourne Football Club Football Department. Here are some pointers that no amount of GPS Data, Statistical Analysis or Past Coaches or Players can give you. Some comments may contradict each other.

Bate - must play 50-70 meters out from goal. He must be the link player coming out of half back. Play him off the left half forward flank. ;If you put the ball out in front he can take a grab and swing onto the left and get in to a contest. He is too slow to run as a midfielder and is an excellent penetrating kick into the 50. His football smarts aren't the best;Can kick a long goal too if needed. Do not allow him to play on the right side of the ground. Whatever side of the ground has his left leg towards the boundary line, tell him to run that channel. Too slow to swing out onto his left and has no right foot. Do you ever see Buddy Franklin break to the right?

Howe - Play him off the right forward flank. Can take a grab but his area should be between 20-60 meters out from goal. Seems to be one kick too far up the ground for my liking as most of his big grabs are towards the wing. Problem is when he looks up towards whats inside 50, he should be that player coming out towards the 50 and not kicking into it. Has great ground awareness and can crumb the ball if needed and doesn't mind the hard stuff. Too often this year we have no-one to kick into. Need to play Petterd and Howe in the same side.

Petterd ;- Deep left forward pocket. I reckon he is a better kick on a tighter angle with his right leg towards the boundary. Has a tendency to hook shots when his right leg is facing centre of the ground. Can take a grab as well but prefer him to stay on the ground and work his opponent out of the contest. Needs to play a "ground"; game (in gridiron terms) and not an "arial" game. Too often going forward this year too many players going up for the mark which leaves either 1 or even 0 Dees players on the ground against 2-3 opposition. Take that a step further and need two ground players hitting most packs one on each side moving into the contest going towards goal. Covers space going forward and if ball goes out back of the pack a better chance to apply pressure if landing in opposition hands.

Morton - Don't think i've ever seen a more "outside" player in the past 5 years. Needs to play the right wing and run the channel 10 meters past each end of the square. Biggest concern in his tendency to over finesse when trying to hit targets. He kicks the ball 5 meters too short thinking that the player going for the mark will make it to the ball. Has to learn to kick the ball to the player and not drag the player to the ball. Kick through the ball Cale!! Penetrate don't guesstimate!!! Can kick the ball long as seen during his kick into the 50 towards City End.

Davey - Stick with him inside 50 on the right forward pocket. Flashes past packs but always decides where he is going to run to before the contest and hopes the ball goes in his direction. Likes kicking goals from deep in the right pocket. Can kick a ball very straight but has that left to right hook which in the right forward pocket would mean the ball would swing into the goals. Needs to work a lot harder on defensive pressure.

Watts - Improving every week but is being moulded into a Bob Murphy off half back stopper or a Michael Hurley half forward ball burster? Seems to float over the ground and if he was pushing up the ground needs to NOT go further than the wing. Needs to start working on the double backing leads ala Reiwoldt. Loved the grab today when he threw his opponent to the ground but not just doing it enough. More aerobic work for Watts this pre-season. I'd even go so far as to alternate Howe and Watts in the double backing role. Can't be a steading influence in the backline as who is he going to kick to 50 meters up the ground?

I'll add more to this during the week when i can.

Edited April 22, 2012 by 13thFlagIsComing

[stuie 7,374]

MFC are just insulting our intelligence now...

http://www.melbourne...92/default.aspx

http://www.melbourne...91/default.aspx

Neeld: “The last thing is the scoreboard"

Wow... Poor Mark is already overrun by the very culture he was trying to change, way to be tough coach.

Rivers: “Definitely every week, I think we’re getting better”

No, we're getting worse, only our opposition has dropped in quality weekly after West Coast.

I thought we were past this Bailey-esque "positivity", I loved Neeld's first presser, but 4 matches in and he's already rolling out the same sell we've heard for 5 years. Sick of it. Never been so disillusioned to be a Dees supporter, and I think we/they/everyone needs some more honesty and forthrightness in communication. I find nothing more soul-less than being dished up false positives after every heart destroying loss.

Get real MFC. Everyone knows we'll be lucky to win 2 games this year, we're all feeling lost, so connect with us again in earnest or shut the hell up and work on your bloody footy.

Edited April 22, 2012 by stuie