Altitude training in China?

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

The key to successful training at altitude is to live high and train low

Story of my life...

[The Chazz 4,077]

Well we are criticising each other for the same thing then...

We both have numbers that we don't know are correct.

I was lazy with my wording.

Easy on the rape references, Billy.

We are not criticising each other for the same thing. You said CS thinks it's worth an amount, but this was your opinion of what he thinks, not something he has made public. My comments have never quoted or indicated what CS thinks. Totally different situation RP, and I'm fine with your excuse of lazy wording, but don't twist it around to make it sound like we're on the same level. Simply, you were wrong in this example.

You are right in that we both have a personal opinion of the amount, and it is backed up with bugger all.

In terms of the rape reference, it was in regards to the way you love to violate posts. A lot of words have more than one meaning. Get over it.

[rpfc 28,071]

We are not criticising each other for the same thing. You said CS thinks it's worth an amount, but this was your opinion of what he thinks, not something he has made public. My comments have never quoted or indicated what CS thinks. Totally different situation RP, and I'm fine with your excuse of lazy wording, but don't twist it around to make it sound like we're on the same level. Simply, you were wrong in this example.

You are right in that we both have a personal opinion of the amount, and it is backed up with bugger all.

In terms of the rape reference, it was in regards to the way you love to violate posts. A lot of words have more than one meaning. Get over it.

Are we done?

I don't know whether we can afford to spend a month at this place...

Maybe its valuable as a mental touchstone for the players - we went on high-altitude training too, we can compete with the best!

The human mind is very susceptible to this manipulation...

Otherwise we will have to have the players sleep in tents that imitate the high altitude, probably cost a bit.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Are we done?

I don't know whether we can afford to spend a month at this place...

Maybe its valuable as a mental touchstone for the players - we went on high-altitude training too, we can compete with the best!

The human mind is very susceptible to this manipulation...

Otherwise we will have to have the players sleep in tents that imitate the high altitude, probably cost a bit.

I do find it interesting RP that Geelong don't participate in the overseas/altitude training craze, as they see it as a long-term thing that will prove costly over time. I think the "settle" for Falls Creek to do their altitude training, which I'm also sure that a lot of the Australian Olympians do.

I guess between Misson and his knowledge, Neeld and his exposure to it with Collingwood, and Craig and his expertise, I'm hopeful that they will make the rigth decision for the Club and players. If it is just a ploy to make the players feel like we are doing the best thing, when in actual fact it's not a huge benefit, then it will be an expensive thing. But I agree, I'm sure there are Clubs that are going to Arizona just because that seems to be what the "good teams" do.

It's just how they (Neeld, Misson, Craig) relay it to the players. If they can show them the whys and why nots, the players should feel comfortable with whatever decision is made.

[hardtack 10,433]

Don't know if it has been asked already, but could this be a case of us scratching their back in return for a big sponsor deal? Just a thought.

[Cards13 9,117]

What, they come back and sit in a special room for 4 weeks.....I'd like to see that

Most of the Pies supportes need to sit in a "special room".....

[Jordie_tackles 354]

Don't know if it has been asked already, but could this be a case of us scratching their back in return for a big sponsor deal? Just a thought.

In terms of using there facilities? what are we potentially doing? or have done?

[biggestred 4,845]

Maybe its valuable as a mental touchstone for the players - we went on high-altitude training too, we can compete with the best!

Otherwise we will have to have the players sleep in tents that imitate the high altitude, probably cost a bit.

yep, mental effects. bang. knowledge breeds confidence.

sam blease tweeted not very long ago about finally setting up his altitude room/bed room...

[Pipefitter 2,144]

I heard that High Altitude training for 2 weeks is only beneficial if you can have a room built which gives gives you the similar atmosphere for when you get back home.

Otherwise you ned to spend at least 6 weeks in High Altitude to gain full benefit.

Apparently the Filth have such a room at "Wespac"

Has anyone heard differently?

[Pipefitter 2,144]

Yes collingwood do have their own altitude room.

[Sir Why You Little 36,735]

Altitude Training does work...after 3-4 weeks the Blood does thin and thus travels faster and further increasing energy levels...But like many things-It must be continued....Topped Up is a good way to imagine it.

With everything it takes time to take effects,,,but i expect every club to have High altitude training rooms within 5-10 years, maybe earlier..

It won't make a huge difference-But as a team effort it may win us some tight games against tough opposition, but every bit helps....I hope this all comes off for us in China...The Chinese take their sport very seriously, so i suspect their Facilities will be of a Top Standard & updated regularly...

Nice work CS.

Edited December 9, 2011 by why you little

[daisycutter 29,429]

Altitude Training does work...after 3-4 weeks the Blood does thin and thus travels faster and further increasing energy levels...

With everything it takes time to make large effects,,,i expect every club to have High altitude training rooms within 5-10 years, maybe earlier..

It won't make a huge difference, but every bit helps....I hope this all comes off for us in China...The Chinese take their sport very seriously, so i suspect their Facilities will be of a Top Standard & updated regularly...

Nice work CS.

wouldn't half an asprin do the blood thinning trick.?....and at a fraction of the cost

[Sir Why You Little 36,735]

wouldn't half an asprin do the blood thinning trick.?....and at a fraction of the cost

It is a line ball situation, but if you speak to someone who has done any serious Mountain Climbing, they will tell you that your metabolic rate does change, and it takes time to adjust.

Just like a deep sea diver surfacing too quick getting the Bends...The Body does adjust to atmospheric pressure..

But to get any gains from it the players need to be operating in the "High Altitude" Conditions for the entire season. So without the "Room" set up once the team has returned there is no point apart from psychological.

[daisycutter 29,429]

It is a line ball situation, but if you speak to someone who has done any serious Mountain Climbing, they will tell you that your metabolic rate does change, and it takes time to adjust.

Just like a deep sea diver surfacing too quick getting the Bends...The Body does adjust to atmospheric pressure..

But to get any gains from it the players need to be operating in the "High Altitude" Conditions for the entire season. So without the "Room" set up once the team has returned there is no point apart from psychological.

think i'll stick with the asprin....seems a lot easier to me

[Sir Why You Little 36,735]

think i'll stick with the asprin....seems a lot easier to me

Haha! Yes you are old and far more Brittle....Hot Cocoa?

[Yossarian 1,820]

Don't know if it has been asked already, but could this be a case of us scratching their back in return for a big sponsor deal? Just a thought.

I was thinking this as well. I think it shows that we have a genuine interest in China and where they're at not just that we want them to be interested in us.

It's definitely a much better place to negotiate from, if only to bring it up in conversation, even if it's not the main reason we're doing it. Altitude training seems to have its benefits and this is killing a few birds with one stone.

[monoccular 17,345]

Altitude Training does work...after 3-4 weeks the Blood does thin and thus travels faster and further increasing energy levels...But like many things-It must be continued....Topped Up is a good way to imagine it.

With everything it takes time to take effects,,,but i expect every club to have High altitude training rooms within 5-10 years, maybe earlier..

It won't make a huge difference-But as a team effort it may win us some tight games against tough opposition, but every bit helps....I hope this all comes off for us in China...The Chinese take their sport very seriously, so i suspect their Facilities will be of a Top Standard & updated regularly...

Nice work CS.

Au contraire: My understanding is that the blood actually gets thicker not thinner, (hematocrit rises), but carries more O2 thus increasing performance NB endurance, much as the (illegal) use of erythryopoetin does.

Now I have no idea how long an exposure it takes nor what sort of altitude is needed to make this actually effective, and I would doubt if it carries on six months down the track - maybe, just maybe, it is all psychological, a sort of "bonding" and sharing adversity in a strange environment thing cf Kokoda walks.

Is there anyone actually qualified in excercise physiology who can enlighten us all, please?

Maybe even Mr Craig

[DeeJP 0]

From one of the fitness lads twitter from the club

'@melbournefc boys sweating it out this morning on the Watt bikes in their 1st altitude room session'

Apparently recently installed

[pringle 42]

Au contraire: My understanding is that the blood actually gets thicker not thinner, (hematocrit rises), but carries more O2 thus increasing performance NB endurance, much as the (illegal) use of erythryopoetin does.

Now I have no idea how long an exposure it takes nor what sort of altitude is needed to make this actually effective, and I would doubt if it carries on six months down the track - maybe, just maybe, it is all psychological, a sort of "bonding" and sharing adversity in a strange environment thing cf Kokoda walks.

Is there anyone actually qualified in excercise physiology who can enlighten us all, please?

Maybe even Mr Craig

Yep. I'e studied this in a fair bit of detail. My opinion is that it is a massive waste of time to do 2 weeks there. Moreover, the way most teams are doing it (at the start of the pre-season), there is no way the physiological benefits can last throughout the season, even with the benefit of an altitude room. In fact, I think the room is even more pointless than the training camp.

In essence, the aim (as someone has already mentioned) is to sleep high and train low. This allows for training at maximal capacity whilst gaining the physiological benefits of living at altitude. You definitely get some adaptive changes within the 2 weeks, but not the full benefit and certainly not a sustainable long-term benefit without continued and consistent long-term exposure to altitude. The only benefit I see is potentially a greater capacity to train in the immediate post-camp period, which could then be used to build a better base for later training (ie. accelerate the building of fitness levels during the pre-season). I feel the altitude training rooms are rubbish because unless you spend massive chunks of your day in them, you are unlikely to get any benefit whatsoever from a short exercise session during which you are unable to work at your peak performance (ie. you can't train as hard in the damn room and you're not in there long enough for it to make any difference).

Some people have tried to overcome this issue by building altitude houses or tents that simulate sleeping at altitude. This is more like the altitude camp scenario with the aim of getting longer periods of exposure to lower barometric pressures. But try getting a whole team of AFL players to live like that... and regardless, the jury is still out on the altitude house/tent method. Hope that helps. My vote is a definite NO!!! I think that the main benefit of these camps is either psychological or comes from team bonding experiences and a feeling of 'eliteness' in that environment.