Cameron Schwab On SEN with OX today

[jabberwocky 2,301]

This forum far to easily ridicules people who disagree with it. Scully has chosen to keep the fire going. He has either not made up his mind. Which is legitmate. But he could put it all to bed by signing. He has chosen to wait until the end of the year. What does he expect but people to speculate and come up with opinions on both sides.

Him and that Sylvia fellow ought to be ashamed.

[Harrisonrules 273]

That is a little low.

The guy gave his all for the Dees.

And IMO still bleeds red and blue.

He has made a great job of re establishing his life.

Give him a little credit.

Does that make you feel better!

He's a recovered gambler. That's even better than someone who has never gambled

[Guest 36DD]

I think she's being a bit generous on Tom being a "talking point"......

GWS gets next to no coverage up here. I work in sports media and have contacts at the Sydney papers and trust me no-one cares.

When it is launched it will get some publicity, but not what the AFL want or need. It is not going to conquer all in the western suburbs. Not now, not ever.

Tom's contract situation has crept in a couple of times, usually on the back of a second hand Mike Sheahan piece, at the bottom of the last page of the Daily Telegraph.

Nothing is coming from the Sydney sports media, because none of them really give a toss. Wilson is right, people up here don't know who he is nor do they care unfortunately.

And why would they, really? The West is going to be very hard to take.

And this small recognition is only to say the bare minimum of what is going on, and to make sure that (some) people are still a little aware that there is a multi million dollar sports organisation trying to build itself at Blacktown. Because there is no real impact being made.

And what you say makes me think that GWS is going to be a black hole on the AFL balance sheet for a very long time.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Fair enough cheap shots are just that.

Back to discussion.

I don't know what to make of it all but here are the points from the interview

1. Schwartz was crying plan B for the members/supporters and he frequently said 'if' Scully goes we need a plan B.

2. Schwab retorted that the compensation rules are the rules.

3. Ox believed that the rules for compensation were changed by heavy lobbying from Geelong because of Ablett.

4. Schwab retorted that the rules were made while he was on the committee and a gap was identified where a marquee player (top 5 in competition) wouldn't be adequately compensated. That Ablett going and rule change were not done in response to speculation he may go to GC.

5. Laidley stated that MFC would be hoping to sell other things than just remuneration. Schwab categorically agreed and stated this had been a key reason/purpose/foundation of the club rebuild.

6. Ox and Schwab in interplay, interjections and the Ox general inference that Schwab/club was somehow being negligent in not seeking something more from the AFL Executive was extremely uncomfortable.

7. Schwab was at pains to suggest that over the course of a 15 year career if T. Scully was the marquee player they expect he will be that it was no real difference in his total player earnings he'd receive elsewhere with GWS able to pay more upfront but having to fall into line with rest of the clubs.

8. Schwab again restated the faith he has in T. Scully's character and that speculation that he has done anything other than what he said he would was unfair and was assassinating his good character. He mentioned that a lot of his character traits or profiling were the reason he was so highly touted and selected at 1.

9. After the break without right of reply Ox continues to espouse that Brian Cook had lobbied heavily for compensation change. Marko and Laidley both agreed that Schwab performed admirably. But that it was his job to sell hope and belief to supporters as was his job and basically he wouldn't be able to state he had a plan B because it would admit Scully was already gone.

Actually just listen to the bloody podcast:-

http://www.sen.com.au/AUDIO

Thanks for this summary, Diablo - much appreciated. And for yours as well, Axis. Living in Sydney, it's good to read these reports.

Irrespective of the Scully situation, I think back to 2003 and to 2007, 2008 and 2009 when I genuinely feared for the future of this club. All I wanted then was a guarantee that we had a long term future.

Now, each time I hear Schwab, Connolly, Lord Jim or Bailey speak, I know we have that. In fact, I now think how many flags we are going to win in the next decade. And that's bloody nice.

Let's not forget where we are coming from as a club. We have a lot to be thankful for.

[QueenC 74]

And what you say makes me think that GWS is going to be a black hole on the AFL balance sheet for a very long time.

Yep, it will have some pluses but it needs to work up here and in an environment that doesn't covet the sport.

It's having trouble attracting corporate sponsors (outside of the AFL), and will be a big drain on funding for a long time to come.

[Captain Jack Jordan 32]

I reckon the GWS is going to be a huge mistake and will likely fold as an AFL team .Ditto Port and/or North .Does anyone else agree that an extra bogus team will kill another club ,as well as itself eventually ?

[Guest 36DD]

Yep, it will have some pluses but it needs to work up here and in an environment that doesn't covet the sport.

It's having trouble attracting corporate sponsors (outside of the AFL), and will be a big drain on funding for a long time to come.

I guess they are trying to grow the game from the grass roots, through Auskick etc rather than through catching the imagination of the public. Demetriou has gone out of his way to make the game safer and more rewarding financially which would no doubt have a positive effect on parents should they be considering which sports to expose their children to.

[Guest 36DD]

I reckon the GWS is going to be a huge mistake and will likely fold as an AFL team .Ditto Port and/or North .Does anyone else agree that an extra bogus team will kill another club ,as well as itself eventually ?

Yep, said the same in a post a few weeks back. Could be some collateral damage for having to prop GWS up for the next 25 to 50 years.

Port have a rich history and are located in a footy mad town yet they are struggling to make things work.

[QueenC 74]

I guess they are trying to grow the game from the grass roots, through Auskick etc rather than through catching the imagination of the public. Demetriou has gone out of his way to make the game safer and more rewarding financially which would no doubt have a positive effect on parents should they be considering which sports to expose their children to.

Maybe but AusKick isn't huge out west either.......

It just hasn't been around long enough to have taken any kind of hold (if it's ever going to).

The Western Suburb league juniors have tens of thousands of kids playing and while there will be some defectors (maybe due to safety concerns). I just don't believe it will be enough to grab the hearts and minds of the younger population that GWS will need to have for success in the next decade or so.

[Whispering_Jack 28,010]

I think she's being a bit generous on Tom being a "talking point" ...

GWS gets next to no coverage up here. I work in sports media and have contacts at the Sydney papers and trust me no-one cares.

When it is launched it will get some publicity, but not what the AFL want or need. It is not going to conquer all in the western suburbs. Not now, not ever.

Tom's contract situation has crept in a couple of times, usually on the back of a second hand Mike Sheahan piece, at the bottom of the last page of the Daily Telegraph.

Nothing is coming from the Sydney sports media, because none of them really give a toss. Wilson is right, people up here don't know who he is nor do they care unfortunately.

And why would they, really? The West is going to be very hard to take.

And this small recognition is only to say the bare minimum of what is going on, and to make sure that (some) people are still a little aware that there is a multi million dollar sports organisation trying to build itself at Blacktown.

Because there is no real impact being made.

It's a very important point and one Scully's advisers need to consider. What happens if GWS fails?

To what extent would the AFL prop up the franchise if it started to become a financial millstone around its neck?

Demetriou and co might point to the AFL's billion dollar plus TV rights deal but we live in difficult economic times. If the GFC strikes Australia as it did to the US and to Europe (the news today is that the Italian economy is in strife) could a situation arise where Seven and/or Foxtel struggle to secure sufficient advertisers for their football programming?

I know that on balance it's an unlikely scenario but I agree with the view that it's going to be a difficult task for GWS to secure a foothold in hostile territory, particularly in the likely event that the team is unsuccessful on the field in it's formative years.

[Elwood 3184 1,268]

Scully is supposed to be a pro who is dedicated to consistent improvement and development. How would that work under the coaching of Sheedy and Williams in a team that wins 3 or 4 games a year?

[Sir Why You Little 34,615]

It's a very important point and one Scully's advisers need to consider. What happens if GWS fails?

To what extent would the AFL prop up the franchise if it started to become a financial millstone around its neck?

Demetriou and co might point to the AFL's billion dollar plus TV rights deal but we live in difficult economic times. If the GFC strikes Australia as it did to the US and to Europe (the news today is that the Italian economy is in strife)  could a situation arise where Seven and/or Foxtel struggle to secure sufficient advertisers for their football programming? 

I know that on balance it's an unlikely scenario but I agree with the view that it's going to be a difficult task for GWS to secure a foothold in hostile territory, particularly in the likely event that the team is unsuccessful on the field in it's formative years.

Very Poignant words WJ. 

This is a bad time to be starting 2 new teams that nobody REALLY cares for. The world economy is on shaky ground, and ch.7 have taken on a huge gamble.

Yes they have 9 games to choose from each week, but 4-5 of them will be of small consequence...How many ads can you sell in Melbourne for Brisbane Lions v GWS?? 

It astounds me that the broadcast rights went as high as they did.

Has the AFL got too greedy to quick & spread itself too thin??

We will find out..."Every Heart Beats True"

[Guest 36DD]

Very Poignant words WJ.

This is a bad time to be starting 2 new teams that nobody REALLY cares for. The world economy is on shaky ground, and ch.7 have taken on a huge gamble.

Yes they have 9 games to choose from each week, but 4-5 of them will be of small consequence...How many ads can you sell in Melbourne for Brisbane Lions v GWS??

It astounds me that the broadcast rights went as high as they did.

Has the AFL got too greedy to quick & spread itself too thin??

We will find out..."Every Heart Beats True"

Wouldn't really effect Scully, he can go up there for 5 years, serve his time, bank some massive $$$ and find his way back to a Victorian club.

[Sir Why You Little 34,615]

Wouldn't really effect Scully, he can go up there for 5 years, serve his time, bank some massive $$ and find his way back to a Victorian club.

Sure, but the long term AFL problems could be huge, that was more my point to WJ's post.

[Jaded No More 58,358]

Wouldn't really effect Scully, he can go up there for 5 years, serve his time, bank some massive $$ and find his way back to a Victorian club.

Because so many players just switch clubs with the same ease as they do undies.

This isn't a cashier job at Coles we're talking about, you can't just jump ship every few years when you're unhappy/unsuccessful/want more cash.

[Striker475 696]

Within 10-15 years the AFL could be back to 12 clubs. Victoria will take a hit i have no doubt, 9 clubs in Melbourne is just too many now...Too much money is needed to run them.

Imagine how much coin went through the filth last year!!! and continues.

This is what i am concerned about. Victorian money will now disappear up north to fund 2 useless sponges that are propped up by an inflated TV deal.

We just have to make sure the MFC stays strong.

I reckon 8 will survive in Vic. The question mark is, and has been for 25 years, North.

Of the others though, who can you really see going? The Bulldogs, while still getting a handout, have a solid paid-up base. Yes, attendances have been down this year, but there's still a lot of paid-up people. Us? The cash is still there, we link to the MCC cash, we are growing (5 consecutive record membership tallies) and the AFL will not let the oldest club die, means too much to the heritage and to the game worldwide (remember, second-oldest club of any footballing code WORLDWIDE). The Big Four of Carlton-Collingwood-Essendon-Richmond kick along no matter how bad they're doing cos of their massive membership base. St Kilda and Hawthorn have both used recent areas to promote themselves and grow, and are both now sustainable.

The two AFL questionmarks are definitely North and the SA question. The SA issue has a lot to do with the SANFL though - I will not be surprised if the PAFC license is removed from the SANFL and given to the members of Port a la the Victorian teams (bar North). The conflict of interest and poor management of football in SA is primarily the fault of the SANFL every way I read it.

[Guest 36DD]

Because so many players just switch clubs with the same ease as they do undies.

This isn't a cashier job at Coles we're talking about, you can't just jump ship every few years when you're unhappy/unsuccessful/want more cash.

Luke Ball had difficulty getting to the club of his choice, as did Shaun Burgoyne as did Judd.

You simply put a price on your head like Ball did.

[Sir Why You Little 34,615]

I reckon 8 will survive in Vic. The question mark is, and has been for 25 years, North.

Of the others though, who can you really see going? The Bulldogs, while still getting a handout, have a solid paid-up base. Yes, attendances have been down this year, but there's still a lot of paid-up people. Us? The cash is still there, we link to the MCC cash, we are growing (5 consecutive record membership tallies) and the AFL will not let the oldest club die, means too much to the heritage and to the game worldwide (remember, second-oldest club of any footballing code WORLDWIDE). The Big Four of Carlton-Collingwood-Essendon-Richmond kick along no matter how bad they're doing cos of their massive membership base. St Kilda and Hawthorn have both used recent areas to promote themselves and grow, and are both now sustainable.

The two AFL questionmarks are definitely North and the SA question. The SA issue has a lot to do with the SANFL though - I will not be surprised if the PAFC license is removed from the SANFL and given to the members of Port a la the Victorian teams (bar North). The conflict of interest and poor management of football in SA is primarily the fault of the SANFL every way I read it.

You could be right striker, we need to discuss this more with whiskey i think. 8 clubs in victoria, hmmmm not sure about that?

i hope you are right btw.

Interesting you mention heritage...i sometimes think this commission think of AFL Heritage starting in 1987....Yes the MFC is growing, but we do need success to really flourish.

Baby Steps.

[Fork 'em 6,538]

It's commendable that you back the Ox but that turn phrase "the guy gave his all for the dees"

please just read his book if you can stomach it. You will soon realise the error in that statement.

Yeah I read it and his committment to the club and his career was far behind his committment to the punt .

Hugely disappointing read which massively altered the esteem in which I held him .

In the wash-up , playing football for us was just a means to fund his punting and even when wearing the red & blue he'd be more concerned at what was happening at racetracks around the country .

Edited July 12, 2011 by Fork 'em

[east gippsland demon 7]

Yeah I read it and his committment to the club and his career was far behind his committment to the punt .

Hugely disappointing read which massively altered the esteem in which I held him .

In the wash-up , playing football for us was just a means to fund his punting and even when wearing the red & blue he'd be more concerned at what was happening at racetracks around the country .

what he said about the 2000 grand final was so disapointing. He wasnt there mentaly at all. was waiting for him to make a big statement after long cleaned up simmonds and the blue that followed but didnt happen.

[Fork 'em 6,538]

what he said about the 2000 grand final was so disapointing. He wasnt there mentaly at all. was waiting for him to make a big statement after long cleaned up simmonds and the blue that followed but didnt happen.

I wanted him to make a statement as soon as Wallace crunched Green twice in the opening minutes but ... No .

The game was over by the time of the Long incident .

Edited July 13, 2011 by Fork 'em

[pitmaster 3,064]

The most encouraging development in all this is the "third party payments" yarn in the Hun - looks like we are getting our act together to cover all bases.

While people are bagging Schwarter (and I confess I haven't read his book) can we also spare the time to rip into that phoney Mike Sheahan. I mean, Schwarter doesn't pretend to be a real journalist - he's just a bloke trying to make a living best way he can.

But MS has to really have a good look at himself - his work on this subject is laughable in the context of the last few days. Interesting his name is not on the latest reports.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,468]

Ox was better than Lyon. Just didn't have the longevity in his early career with those knees, so missed a part of his development through injury.

Just a pity he copped those injuries, or he would have overhauled Carey. A dynamic player who others struggled to 'hold', like Carey.

Can't help myself...surely you mean longtermgevity?

(apologies to those who haven't heard the Ox use this made-up word).

[dee-luded 2,958]

Can't help myself...surely you mean longtermgevity?

(apologies to those who haven't heard the Ox use this made-up word).

AhHaHaHa, yeah, sorry for my Spelling Aaron, LoL.... Longtermlevity, laughing wit you longtime...

[DemonWA 3,455]

This isn't a cashier job at Coles we're talking about, you can't just jump ship every few years when you're unhappy/unsuccessful/want more cash.

Jolly has played for a fair few clubs?! If you are good enough i think you can if you want to....