A Two-Tiered AFL Competition

[Webber 10,468]

I agree 100%. Its just a matter of time until a 2 tier system comes into play.

+1. Despite the lashings of paranoid negativity and horrible squealings about the 'ORIGINAL' club (proto-British elitism at its finest) not being able to play off for a premiership in any given year, there WILL be a divisional separation of the AFL in the future. Given that there will be a Tasmanian team and an ACT team at some point not too distant, a 20 team competition becomes unworkable based purely on the dilemmas of fixturing and dead rubbers. That will NOT generate interest in games and won't foster patronage, sponsorship, and general growth of the game. It's simply a stagnant approach to a changing competition.

The AFL has put in place the best systems of interclub fairness of any elite sporting competition in the world, being the national draft, the salary cap, and division of profits (outside the home game gate receipts system). In fact, they even financially assist clubs where needed, and strangely enough, we have benefited. So I suspect they're not out to bury us, or North Melbourne, or Port Adelaide, or whoever. Whether we like/hate Demetriou and his tribunal mangling minion Anderson, it is an impressively democratic sporting competition.

It is clear this 2 tier idea has provoked a polarity of opinions, but I think the detractors are being emotionally driven by our own club's poor showing over the past 45 years, and the not unfounded fear that we will lose touch with the more successful clubs and continue to be starved of success. Lack of success will do that to you. That emotion directs itself to the AFL, who somehow become responsible for wanting to keep us (and other non-successful clubs) down. This is paranoid conspiracy theory nonsense.

It is pure logic for the AFL to want more clubs, which represent the broadest scope of this country, and to do EVERYTHING they can to fertilise support for each and EVERY one of these clubs. I think it is the best approach, and is exciting to watch it unfold, particularly GWS! They would look back on the loss of Fitzroy with some regret for this reason. They know that the larger percentage of Fitzroy supporters lost the passion for the game borne of loyalty, and by implication more gate receipts, and they will not want to repeat that.

The two-tier system that Brendan Schwab has devised will anger a lot of people, as shown here, but these people will NOT stop supporting their clubs. In total honesty, how many posters here would stop supporting the Demons because we found ourselves in tier 2?, as that is the worst scenario that can come from this idea. You're in tier 2. What happens then? You get higher draft picks, the salary cap means you won't get all your best players stolen (and that's what the salary cap ensures), and you have a fresh chance of being promoted that year. EVERY year. And when you're in tier 1, you have a better chance of winning the flag.

If the cap/draft/profit share system proves nothing else, it is that you create a rotation of success through the competition, and whilst not ALL clubs win the premiership during their rotation, they will all get the best possible opportunity. I love the Melbourne Football Club, and it deserves this opportunity. Some of us on here believe Schwab's system would do nothing to damage this opportunity, some of us don't.

Vive le difference!

[Range Rover 1,935]

+1. Despite the lashings of paranoid negativity and horrible squealings about the 'ORIGINAL' club (proto-British elitism at its finest) not being able to play off for a premiership in any given year, there WILL be a divisional separation of the AFL in the future. Given that there will be a Tasmanian team and an ACT team at some point not too distant, a 20 team competition becomes unworkable based purely on the dilemmas of fixturing and dead rubbers. That will NOT generate interest in games and won't foster patronage, sponsorship, and general growth of the game. It's simply a stagnant approach to a changing competition.

The AFL has put in place the best systems of interclub fairness of any elite sporting competition in the world, being the national draft, the salary cap, and division of profits (outside the home game gate receipts system). In fact, they even financially assist clubs where needed, and strangely enough, we have benefited. So I suspect they're not out to bury us, or North Melbourne, or Port Adelaide, or whoever. Whether we like/hate Demetriou and his tribunal mangling minion Anderson, it is an impressively democratic sporting competition.

It is clear this 2 tier idea has provoked a polarity of opinions, but I think the detractors are being emotionally driven by our own club's poor showing over the past 45 years, and the not unfounded fear that we will lose touch with the more successful clubs and continue to be starved of success. Lack of success will do that to you. That emotion directs itself to the AFL, who somehow become responsible for wanting to keep us (and other non-successful clubs) down. This is paranoid conspiracy theory nonsense.

It is pure logic for the AFL to want more clubs, which represent the broadest scope of this country, and to do EVERYTHING they can to fertilise support for each and EVERY one of these clubs. I think it is the best approach, and is exciting to watch it unfold, particularly GWS! They would look back on the loss of Fitzroy with some regret for this reason. They know that the larger percentage of Fitzroy supporters lost the passion for the game borne of loyalty, and by implication more gate receipts, and they will not want to repeat that.

The two-tier system that Brendan Schwab has devised will anger a lot of people, as shown here, but these people will NOT stop supporting their clubs. In total honesty, how many posters here would stop supporting the Demons because we found ourselves in tier 2?, as that is the worst scenario that can come from this idea. You're in tier 2. What happens then? You get higher draft picks, the salary cap means you won't get all your best players stolen (and that's what the salary cap ensures), and you have a fresh chance of being promoted that year. EVERY year. And when you're in tier 1, you have a better chance of winning the flag.

If the cap/draft/profit share system proves nothing else, it is that you create a rotation of success through the competition, and whilst not ALL clubs win the premiership during their rotation, they will all get the best possible opportunity. I love the Melbourne Football Club, and it deserves this opportunity. Some of us on here believe Schwab's system would do nothing to damage this opportunity, some of us don't.

Vive le difference!

Nicely written. I am definitely in the "do it" camp.

Whether tier one or tier two, I'll still be red and blue!

[rpfc 28,444]

I'm more driven to hate the idea because it is awful.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Use the NFL model. Two Conferences... you play the teams in your conference twice, and the teams in the other conference once (roughly. Works out that you still play everyone once, and a few teams twice)...

Top 4 teams from both conferences advance to finals. Works a treat over there. In fact they have twice as many teams, so to sort it out they have 2 conferences, and those two 16-team conferences have 4 divisions of four... winner of each division advances, plus the two next-best performed teams.

I love it, personally. It takes a few minutes to soak it all in... but then so does our comp, when you look at finals.

If you do it this way, you get conference or division rivals... Which become MASSIVE games... like this one. One of the top 3 things I've ever seen in sport.

+1 Dan. Much better option than relegation which AFL will never consider and is not even worth discussing. Details would need to be worked out but other than that.... BRING ON THE CONFERENCE!!!

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

I'm more driven to hate the idea because it is awful.

SWEEEEET RP..... and even that's more than it deserves!

[tonatopia 278]

Nicely written. I am definitely in the "do it" camp.

Whether tier one or tier two, I'll still be red and blue!

When creating a 2 - tier system, it must allow for further expansion, and also maintain 22 rounds per season. 25 rounds would be too taxing on the players. I think the conference system of the NFL would work a treat.

Future additional teams in the AFL would include;

Tasmania.

Canberra

Northern Territory

Cairns

*** Kangaroos should represent Regional Victoria.

[rpfc 28,444]

I'm sorry if I sound condescending but it is the height of naivete to think that Canberra can support an AFL side.

There is no market for it.

None.

Raiders struggle.

Brumbies own the place and they can't compete in the S15's.

So, sorry, no 19th club up here.

[beelzebub 23,377]

I'm sorry if I sound condescending but it is the height of naivete to think that Canberra can support an AFL side.

There is no market for it.

None.

Raiders struggle.

Brumbies own the place and they can't compete in the S15's.

So, sorry, no 19th club up here.

Sorry for condescending ?..hardly you thrive on it.. so lets pass on the pleasantries.. We can al lsee through them.

Canberra like most other infrastructure richcities will grow. Australias population will require it do so. They all cant live in the Melbournes and Sydneys of this land. Its currentpopulation of over 350000 will grow easily to 1/2 Million within the same forecasted developmental period being applied to GWS. Yes the raiders struggle...newsflash....the NRL is struggling.. one begets the other. The AFL is flourishing in the very same environments. Dont be so quick to write off a Canberran team within 10 yeras. Arguably AFTER GWS and a Tassie team have taken root.

A Tier 2 team would slot in quite well . it would be another generational project. It will also be a prestige project as eventually the AFL will need to have a team of ITS code in the Nation's capital....Its bragging rights. The AFL wants to punish and bury the NRL. ( and so it should, cr@p game) Just an opinion

[rpfc 28,444]

Sorry for condescending ?..hardly you thrive on it.. so lets pass on the pleasantries.. We can al lsee through them.

Canberra like most other infrastructure richcities will grow. Australias population will require it do so. They all cant live in the Melbournes and Sydneys of this land. Its currentpopulation of over 350000 will grow easily to 1/2 Million within the same forecasted developmental period being applied to GWS. Yes the raiders struggle...newsflash....the NRL is struggling.. one begets the other. The AFL is flourishing in the very same environments. Dont be so quick to write off a Canberran team within 10 yeras. Arguably AFTER GWS and a Tassie team have taken root.

A Tier 2 team would slot in quite well . it would be another generational project. It will also be a prestige project as eventually the AFL will need to have a team of ITS code in the Nation's capital....Its bragging rights. The AFL wants to punish and bury the NRL. ( and so it should, cr@p game) Just an opinion

I am a very pleasant person.

And, Canberra's infrastrucutre is rich? That's rich...

The place is tired and old, and the territory has no money for projects. The rental market is the worst in the country as there is little development to keep up with the modest population increases through students, and public servants.

Outside of the public service and the servic industry that feeds the public service, there is no other market to attract people up here.

Coz the weather ain't gonna get people to move up here...

The population is not going to be big enough to support an AFL side with the Raiders and the Brumbies in existence.

I can get you 30k members overnight. I cannot get you sponsors and corporate support.

Not going to happen.

[tonatopia 278]

I am a very pleasant person.

And, Canberra's infrastrucutre is rich? That's rich...

The place is tired and old, and the territory has no money for projects. The rental market is the worst in the country as there is little development to keep up with the modest population increases through students, and public servants.

Outside of the public service and the servic industry that feeds the public service, there is no other market to attract people up here.

Coz the weather ain't gonna get people to move up here...

The population is not going to be big enough to support an AFL side with the Raiders and the Brumbies in existence.

I can get you 30k members overnight. I cannot get you sponsors and corporate support.

Not going to happen.

Never?

[Striker475 696]

AFL denied it today according to the Hun.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

Today's Toilet Paper.....

[Range Rover 1,935]

BUMP

It's coming. Just a matter of time.

[Supermercado 2,797]

Zero chance. Not in this broadcasting rights deal, not in any where they want to get a fat wad of cash for showing the games.

Unless Channel 31 are going to pay a mil to show a 2nd Division R24 dead rubber between us and Port.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

BUMP

It's coming. Just a matter of time.

under what format?? Can't we just leave the game alone for a decade or so?? Let it settle.

The AFL changes weekly now!!!!

[Range Rover 1,935]

In fact it's already here, only it hasn't been formalized into two leagues yet. We simply have the haves and have not and about 50% of season's matches are meaningless dead rubbers.

[dee-luded 2,959]

http://www.theage.co...0607-1fr2x.html

I have always thought that this is the way the AFL will eventually go and think Brendan Schwab is on the right track with his model outlined in that article.

With an ever expanding competition, relegation and promotion provides fans with that great intangible that keeps us all coming back year after year .... hope.

We absolutely must create a system where interest remains until the very last round of the year, and where effort is rewarded to sides who are battling to get back up the ladder.

It will also dilute this unhealthy obsession we all have with gaining high draft picks.

No. Just get rid of all these rotations, and the game will settle back down to what we had in the 90's football.

We either have to reduce the bench further to 2 interchange, Plus 1 sub, Plus 1 Emerg, on call.... If not this then we have to reduce the number of players onfield to 17. But we have to stop the amount of ground covered today, which ends up being used to clog up the space, instead of playing "man on man".

The game has become rubbish.

[dee-luded 2,959]

In fact it's already here, only it hasn't been formalized into two leagues yet. We simply have the haves and have not and about 50% of season's matches are meaningless dead rubbers.

A two tier system or a relegation system is a VFL/VFA all over again.

Those who are in the lower half will die slowly of financial strangulation.

[rpfc 28,444]

Poor old WCE...

Wouldn't be a chance for the top 4 this year if we had a two-tier system...

[Range Rover 1,935]

Poor old WCE...

Wouldn't be a chance for the top 4 this year if we had a two-tier system...

An aberration here or there doesn't halt the trend.

[Redleg 40,926]

Lets have a 3 tiered competition. 3 teams in one, 11 teams in the next and 4 in the last.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

An aberration here or there doesn't halt the trend.

AFL sides in the second tier will die....how can this be a good idea?

[Range Rover 1,935]

Lets have a 3 tiered competition. 3 teams in one, 11 teams in the next and 4 in the last.

Hope is the currency which keeps the punters coming through the turnstiles year after year, But it's a finite quality.

Honestly, with the way things are headed in an expanded 18 team competition (and quite possibly a 20 team competition in 10-20 years), how much hope to Melbourne supporters, Richmond supporters, Port, the Dogs etc really have of ever seeing their

team take home the elusive silverware?

Are we just pi$$ing in the wind here? I'm beginning to wonder. And for the first time in my life my reserves of hope are wearing a bit thin.

Edited August 6, 2011 by Range Rover

[rpfc 28,444]

Are we just pi$$ing in the wind here? I'm beginning to wonder. And for the first time in my life my reserves of hope are wearing a bit thin.

Now this is a different argument...

We will get there.

[monoccular 17,431]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-relegation-plan-20110607-1fr2x.html

I have always thought that this is the way the AFL will eventually go and think Brendan Schwab is on the right track with his model outlined in that article.

With an ever expanding competition, relegation and promotion provides fans with that great intangible that keeps us all coming back year after year .... hope.

We absolutely must create a system where interest remains until the very last round of the year, and where effort is rewarded to sides who are battling to get back up the ladder.

It will also dilute this unhealthy obsession we all have with gaining high draft picks.

And the Weagles would have no hope of playing in the big time this year - so much for rags to riches stories, however achieved!!

Every club does have its lows - no way that the AFL would allow Collingwood to play in division 2, nor to miss out on their favorites each other playing twice in a season at OUR home ground.