The Jesse White Thread

[e25 5]

Yep, I'm happy with that result.

I think the draft is deep enough to still get a quality player at pick 53.

One that has a fair chance to be better than Cheney at least, and we can even go for a different type of player.

A tall of the same quality as Fetta would be more useful and there is every chance we'll get a much better midsized defender at pick 12.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Yep, I'm happy with that result.

I think the draft is deep enough to still get a quality player at pick 53.

One that has a fair chance to be better than Cheney at least, and we can even go for a different type of player.

A tall of the same quality as Fetta would be more useful and there is every chance we'll get a much better midsized defender at pick 12.

It's possible that we will get someone better that Fetta, but I'm not as confident they will be high quality after pick 40. There's always around the 1 quality player for the couple of decades past that, and let's face it, Melbourne has a better track record than most of finding that player. We often do better with our spec picks rather than our top 20 ones (although we have done alright over the past couple of years)!

[dee-luded 2,958]

It is superiority complex or superior attitude. The first one makes more sense.

Yeah?! What of it?

Seriously, some of you people need to stop taking yourself so seriously.

When you think I am attacking you personally - I'm not.

Fact remains that Geelong overpaid for Ottens but got a flag.

I wouldn't mind getting a really solid FF/back-up ruck in these two years and being shafted in the deal.

I want to win a flag.

Oh good there you are. just read.

I also liked & wanted Ottens, pref to Holland...

I just don't agree with you re Hale & think your panicking a bit about bringing in outside Talls for a high price,,, that could ultimately cost us winning A flag.

I take a more conservative & patient approach to building this hopefully premiership list, & have learnt from past experience that is the best way to go. If we give up top picks for expensive unproven battlers,, there's a strong chane it could backfire in our face.

We have the young talent to come through, & I'm not against us picking a backup ruck who can stand in the goal square for us to take a big mark or flatten the pack. We may still get one in the preseason.

In the meantime, we can recruit more young talent.

[rpfc 27,611]

Oh good there you are. just read.

I also liked & wanted Ottens, pref to Holland...

I just don't agree with you re Hale & think your panicking a bit about bringing in outside Talls for a high price,,, that could ultimately cost us winning A flag.

I take a more conservative & patient approach to building this hopefully premiership list, & have learnt from past experience that is the best way to go. If we give up top picks for expensive unproven battlers,, there's a strong chane it could backfire in our face.

We have the young talent to come through, & I'm not against us picking a backup ruck who can stand in the goal square for us to take a big mark or flatten the pack. We may still get one in the preseason.

In the meantime, we can recruit more young talent.

At some point we are going to have to bite the bullet and recruit (and maybe trade more than we want to) a big bodied FF/ruck.

The reason why you can't build everything you need for a flag through the draft is because talls, especially rucks, take longer to 'come on' than mids. Taller players in our top 25 players were drafted in 2001 - Rivers, 2002 - Jamar, 2004 - Dunn, 2004 - Bate, 2005 - Warnock, 2006 - Garland, and 2006 - Frawley.

This is opposed to our rebuild drafts that our flag tilt is made up of: 2007 - 2009. In fact the only taller player that is near our 'best 21+1' at the moment from the 'rebuild' drafts, aside from Jack Watts, is Cale Morton. And I don't know if he will settle into a KPP, in fact I am pretty certain he won't.

Moral of this post: You can't build an entire premiership team through the draft.

Bailey didn't have to worry about tall defenders and a number one ruckman when he arrived, and built the rest of the team through the draft. Now he needs, and the rest of the FD evidently agrees, that we need a FF/ruck. We only get that in October, and I am ok paying a little too much to get that last piece of the flag tilt puzzle.

Edited October 12, 2010 by rpfc

[ox_5 163]

Good post rpfc, agree entirely.

Prime examples of this exact way of thinking is Ottens but also Jolly for the Pies.

It usually turns out to be the final piece of the puzzle because it's just so hard to find.

[Deeoldfart 7,807]

Oh good there you are. just read.

..................I'm not against us picking a backup ruck who can stand in the goal square for us to take a big mark or flatten the pack. We may still get one in the preseason.

The Saints have recently delisted former Tiger Adam Pattison. Played 5 games with the StKilda this year

after 61 (and 15 goals) with Richmond in 5 seasons. 197cm and 99kg. KPP and p/time ruckman. Originally drafted at pick 16 in the 2004 ND. I don't recall much about him, but he can't have made much of an impression at StKilda to be delisted after only one year, although they do have a few talls. Is he any better than PJ?

[e25 5]

No.

Was shocked that saints even tried him for a year.

[45HG 1,539]

I've answered your question as best as I can. For further clarification, call the MFC to find out the logic behind it and report back hey?

Now, I don't give a toss if Sydney wanted to trade him or not, I'm asking you, 45HG16, to put your opinion out there on what pick you would estimate Jesse White to be worth. Just interested to know how you rate him.

For a tall, athletic forward who can take a very good mark and seems very good below his knees, can also pinch-hit in the ruck and has a lot of development left in him, I'd think a late first rounder- but probably early second rounder would be in the park.

Having said that, my initial point is that I don't believe the Swans ever wanted to test the waters for him - which probably says something.

There are certain Dees players who probably would go for around the same pick (maybe even a pick in the late 20's) who many on here, including myself, would bemoan to see leave.

[H_T 2,941]

*BUMP* and moved to Drafting & Trading Forum. (Find another JT Forum).

What about Jesse White. This time last year there was some interest. Is there the same level of interest ?

Value ? Early second rounder ?

[rpfc 27,611]

*BUMP* and moved to Drafting & Trading Forum. (Find another JT Forum).

What about Jesse White. This time last year there was some interest. Is there the same level of interest ?

Value ? Early second rounder ?

Still think he is more talented than Hale.

Not there upstairs from what I have heard, but we'll see...

[Demon Disciple 11,086]

Jesse White is not the answer to our problems up forward. He's just a glorified Paul Johnson.

If we can't get someone DECENT to come to our club, we then have to draft one. This isn't the strongest draft, so the "best available" rule needn't apply. Go for needs, hello to one Todd Elton. Who knows, if we actually draft a true KPF, they might actually turn out to be quite good. No more forwards with versatility and nice disposal. The only nice disposal i want from my KPF is one that doesn't cack himself in front of the big sticks.

[dee-luded 2,958]

*BUMP* and moved to Drafting & Trading Forum. (Find another JT Forum).

What about Jesse White. This time last year there was some interest. Is there the same level of interest ?

Value ? Early second rounder ?

Yes, Interested. Our 2nd Rnd'r + a player if required. Warnock, or a dunn.

What about a swap, If Green doesn't want to re-sign. straight out, for White.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Jesse White is not the answer to our problems up forward. He's just a glorified Paul Johnson.

If we can't get someone DECENT to come to our club, we then have to draft one. This isn't the strongest draft, so the "best available" rule needn't apply. Go for needs, hello to one Todd Elton. Who knows, if we actually draft a true KPF, they might actually turn out to be quite good. No more forwards with versatility and nice disposal. The only nice disposal i want from my KPF is one that doesn't cack himself in front of the big sticks.

If we can't get a Dawes, then get a White,,,, & draft one as well. The drafted one will take 2 - 4 yrs. White can break packs now whilst we wait.

[Lutz 76]

Draft one like Lucas Cook?

But wait - he could take 2-4 years?

Then why do some posters malign him for not outperforming Jack Darling in his first season?

Some people seem to not understand development curves

[Demons 32 235]

Jesse White is a touch inconsistent.... But when he wants to he can break a game apart.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Jesse White is a touch inconsistent.... But when he wants to he can break a game apart.

As long as he can break packs consistently and bring the ball to ground. We can operate a forwardline.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Draft one like Lucas Cook?

But wait - he could take 2-4 years?

Then why do some posters malign him for not outperforming Jack Darling in his first season?

Some people seem to not understand development curves

I think most here understand that most 18 Yr olds take 4 years to develop. Most do not come on in their first year.

[old55 21,502]

Draft one like Lucas Cook?

But wait - he could take 2-4 years?

Then why do some posters malign him for not outperforming Jack Darling in his first season?

Some people seem to not understand development curves

I understand that perfectly - but we can't wait 4 years to start playing the game style we want. That's why we went after Hale last year and why we need to go after someone this year. That's why I suggested Kosi in the other thread.

[old dee 22,963]

At some point we are going to have to bite the bullet and recruit (and maybe trade more than we want to) a big bodied FF/ruck.

The reason why you can't build everything you need for a flag through the draft is because talls, especially rucks, take longer to 'come on' than mids. Taller players in our top 25 players were drafted in 2001 - Rivers, 2002 - Jamar, 2004 - Dunn, 2004 - Bate, 2005 - Warnock, 2006 - Garland, and 2006 - Frawley.

This is opposed to our rebuild drafts that our flag tilt is made up of: 2007 - 2009. In fact the only taller player that is near our 'best 21+1' at the moment from the 'rebuild' drafts, aside from Jack Watts, is Cale Morton. And I don't know if he will settle into a KPP, in fact I am pretty certain he won't.

Moral of this post: You can't build an entire premiership team through the draft.

Bailey didn't have to worry about tall defenders and a number one ruckman when he arrived, and built the rest of the team through the draft. Now he needs, and the rest of the FD evidently agrees, that we need a FF/ruck. We only get that in October, and I am ok paying a little too much to get that last piece of the flag tilt puzzle.

rpfc I agree completely.

Look at the pies in 2010.

They bought in Ball and Jolly

IMO those two moves made the difference.

They might only play 3 seasons for the Pies.

But they were the difference between being Finalists and Premiers.

[Dee*ceiving 998]

Agree, failing Dawes Jesse White is a worthwhile investment. Can break pack and seems to pick the ball up off the ground and turn well for a big bloke. Seems unlikely to clunk pack marks like Dawes but provides a big bodied foil for Green, Jurrah, Petterd etc.

Regarding Darling v Cook. Let's not forget Darling plays in a forward line with 2 other established KPFs (Kennedy & Lynch) which means he gets the 3rd best KPD. or even 4th best when Natanui or Cox are sent down there.

Any Melbourne KPF will need to stand the opposition's best KPD week in week out or else they will be left to continously out size the likes of Jurrah, Green and Petterd.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Dee*ceiving

[Axis of Bob 10,316]

Problem with White is that he's a small man trapped in a big man's body. He doesn't really contest for the ball and is much better receiving it. He's quite quick, but he isn't a marking threat.

Wow, it feels like I just wrote a bio for Paul Johnson.

He amassed 5 (yes, 5) contested marks for the year this year. He averaged 7.8 disposals, 2 marks and thumped through 9 goals for the year. And if you are wondering whether it was because he spent so much time in the ruck, then you'll be happy to know that he averaged 5.1 hit outs a game too.

As a comparison, the following Melbourne players took more contested marks per game than him this year: Howe, Macdonald, Fitzpatrick, Jamar, Bate, Green, Warnock, Trengove, Petterd, Watts, Garland, Jurrah, Rivers, Sylvia, Martin, Grimes, McDonald and Gawn. That's 18 players in front of him (ie, 19th). He fares better at Sydney, where he soars to 14th.

I'm not sure he's quite the contested marking threat that you think he is.

[old55 21,502]

Kosi v White - they both played 13 games

http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/compare_players?tid1=113&pid1=200199&year1=2011&tid2=114&pid2=2007132&year2=2011

[Axis of Bob 10,316]

But old, we sure could do with the extra 0.3 1%ers a game that White contributes. And, of course, the extra 0.2 behinds a game.

[H_T 2,941]

Kosi v White - they both played 13 games

http://www.pro-stats...7132&year2=2011

Just throwing it out there old. What about this match-up ? Kosi v McKernan

http://www.pro-stats...9028&year2=2011

Haven't a clue on his contract status - I'd imagine he may be all signed and sealed. Can't find anything.

edit: Signed contract extension:

Doesn't say how long for: http://www.fiveaa.com.au/article_walker-reilly-and-mckernan-commit-to-adelaide-media-release_110067

Edited September 27, 2011 by H_T

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

Feel like we're playing duck, duck, spud here..

Jamar should spend more time at FF.. better option than these tards names being bandied about. Before you say "he is too valuable in the ruck"- I say Martin has improved enough to take the brunt of the ruck work, and we may have no other choice.

I don't want us drafting a spud because we feel we have to fill a spot, I'd rather just re-jig a couple of things. Jamar is the pack busting forward we crave, and he's already in the team.