The Jesse White Thread

[Adzman 2,085]

Jesse White I like. That said, if he wants a big pay day he should remain at the swans. I think the dees board have made it pretty clear to players that they will be reasonable with contract demands, but will baulk at any unreasonable offers. The footy department is building a premiership contender, and guys with questions marks over them will not be given a big pay day just because the market this year dictates they are in demand.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I'm open to that as well, & the SCG, IMO would be somewhere that young Maric would roam well on those wide flanks.

I'd go hard for Jessie, & see what comes of it... Maric + 3rd Rnd. ????

Love this proposal Dee-luded. I would even consider offer Maric and pick 32, for White and one of their later picks (to promote Jordie).

This could only be a win for the MFC. While it's good to use picks on kids, what it is actually meaning is out of this draft, we are getting a midfielder (with a lot of potential) at pick 12, a KPF at 32 that isn't a project-type (Jesse White), a project ruckman (Spencer) and a ready-made tackling machine (Jordie) in the 3rd and 4th rounds. The oldest of these blokes is the same age as Chip, so all 4 are well and truly in our perfect age group.

If someone said that we don't have to turn up to draft day and offered us the 4 players above, we'd take it and laugh all the way to the bank. This could be our "super draft"!

So, dee-luded, let's make plenty of noise so that TH and all the other FD staff read this thread (as you assure us they do), becuase if they can't see the benefit of this deal, then they have NFI!

NB - Maric wasn't included in the China team. Hmm...

[rpfc 27,498]

I would give Pick 12 for White let alone the non-deals that are 'Maric and Pick 50' and 'Maric and Pick 32.'

Sydney wouldn't even go for the Pick 12 deal let alone the package of 'crap and crap = awesome' deals that those latter two are.

[45HG 1,539]

This could only be a win for the MFC.

And a massive loss for the Swans.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Love this proposal Dee-luded. I would even consider offer Maric and pick 32, for White and one of their later picks (to promote Jordie).

This could only be a win for the MFC. While it's good to use picks on kids, what it is actually meaning is out of this draft, we are getting a midfielder (with a lot of potential) at pick 12, a KPF at 32 that isn't a project-type (Jesse White), a project ruckman (Spencer) and a ready-made tackling machine (Jordie) in the 3rd and 4th rounds. The oldest of these blokes is the same age as Chip, so all 4 are well and truly in our perfect age group.

If someone said that we don't have to turn up to draft day and offered us the 4 players above, we'd take it and laugh all the way to the bank. This could be our "super draft"!

So, dee-luded, let's make plenty of noise so that TH and all the other FD staff read this thread (as you assure us they do), becuase if they can't see the benefit of this deal, then they have NFI!

NB - Maric wasn't included in the China team. Hmm...

CC se'nior...

[monoccular 16,120]

Any 200cm Tall, as long as they are strong overhead.

Strong overhead - that then rules out our PJ.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I would give Pick 12 for White let alone the non-deals that are 'Maric and Pick 50' and 'Maric and Pick 32.'

Sydney wouldn't even go for the Pick 12 deal let alone the package of 'crap and crap = awesome' deals that those latter two are.

Would love to know why you think the Swans wouldn't go for Pick 12 for White, and realistically, what has he (White) done for them to think that a fringe player that didn't have many opportunities in a team that are full of small/medium forwards, as well as a 2nd round draft pick isn't a worthy consideration?

[The Chazz 4,077]

And a massive loss for the Swans.

And at what pick would you consider White to be? Personally, given the fact he has been in the system for 4 seasons, and has played 41 games, had some injury concerns, hasn't really shown a great deal of consistency, and the fact that Hale attracted (approx) pick 27 with the runs already on the board, I would seriously rate White as a late 2nd round pick. To add further support to my opinion, the Swans traded pick 28 for Shane Mumford last year. I would probably have Mummy slightly ahead of White at the same stage in their careers.

I was keen to get Mumford last year, and look how he turned out for the price. We wouldn't even be worrying about these threads had we got him - imagine having Mumford in the ruck and Jamar at full forward in 2011.

We should have been in White's ear about how good he could be in a different Club, and get him to the stage where he wants to leave Sydney, then they would have to listen to our offers. Like the Mumford case, I think the FD have missed an opportunity to get an appropriate player for a reasonable price, but, as I keep saying, I have faith in them, so I'm sure they know what they are doing.

[The Chazz 4,077]

A bit shattered we din't get him to be honest. Don't quite understand why we were hoping to fill an obvious need with Hale, but when that didn't eventuate, we didn't make a play for someone else to fill that need.

So, while the FD are saying that we need a big body to free up Jurrah and Watts, we haven't actually done that, and unless some miracle happens and we get someone via PSD, we will still have that hole for the next 12 months? Interesting decision, obviously made for a reason.

Another development year folks, be prepared for early September holidays!

[Sir Why You Little 34,579]

A bit shattered we din't get him to be honest. Don't quite understand why we were hoping to fill an obvious need with Hale, but when that didn't eventuate, we didn't make a play for someone else to fill that need.

So, while the FD are saying that we need a big body to free up Jurrah and Watts, we haven't actually done that, and unless some miracle happens and we get someone via PSD, we will still have that hole for the next 12 months? Interesting decision, obviously made for a reason.

Another development year folks, be prepared for early September holidays!

Yes i tend to agree. Unless PJ confounds us all and has a break out year (Hoping) i am very suprised that the forward line will not change greatly for 2011.

That said, if Jurrah and Pettard play full seasons the Forward line doesn't look too bad, although Big Blokes don't get shorter in the last Quarter when the shorter guys get tired.

[ox_5 163]

A bit shattered we din't get him to be honest. Don't quite understand why we were hoping to fill an obvious need with Hale, but when that didn't eventuate, we didn't make a play for someone else to fill that need.

So, while the FD are saying that we need a big body to free up Jurrah and Watts, we haven't actually done that, and unless some miracle happens and we get someone via PSD, we will still have that hole for the next 12 months? Interesting decision, obviously made for a reason.

Another development year folks, be prepared for early September holidays!

How do you know we didn't make a play for someone else to fill that need?? Because it wasn't out in the media or on SpyandSource's twitter?

I cant see how you can say just because we didn't get a big forward we wanted (at the right price) that we are not a chance for the 8. I would have thought at this stage every year is a development year, and I would have thought most of us understood that - obviously not. You are developing until your window is open - ours isnt open. The luxury we have is that we have time on our side to get the big forward/relief ruckman we want. Hell, we might even have him on our list already, and we just need him, to dare I say it, develop.

[The Chazz 4,077]

How do you know we didn't make a play for someone else to fill that need?? Because it wasn't out in the media or on SpyandSource's twitter?

I cant see how you can say just because we didn't get a big forward we wanted (at the right price) that we are not a chance for the 8. I would have thought at this stage every year is a development year, and I would have thought most of us understood that - obviously not. You are developing until your window is open - ours isnt open. The luxury we have is that we have time on our side to get the big forward/relief ruckman we want. Hell, we might even have him on our list already, and we just need him, to dare I say it, develop.

Understand what you are saying Ox, but I can assure you there will be people on this forum that will not accept anything less than making the finals in 2011. they are the ones I was directing that at.

I hinted that we wouldn't make the finals becuase we didn't have enough goal kicking options this year, and we haven't increased that in terms of someone ready made for next season (as indicated by our FD as an area that requires attention). To be in finals contention, we have 2 options, restrict the opposition from scoring more goals than us, and for us to kick more goals than our opposition. I'm just unsure where we are going to increase our goal scoring options with no key forward. I'm sure that is the question that the FD are asking themselves, and no doubt will make appropriate changes to game plans, etc to cater for this.

I am slightly nervous that we are putting too much emphasis in to drafting for this team of the decade. I couldn't see how paying a bit now for a 22 year old KPF would have interfered with this philosphy. Time will tell if White (or Hale) would have been a good option.

I can assure you, I'm one of the most optomistic blokes on this forum. While the Club will come out and say why we didn't chase certain players, etc, we will never know who they chased, and why they didn't get certain players. All we can do is keep guessing, and it's that reason that we have these forums!

[rpfc 27,498]

I am slightly nervous that we are putting too much emphasis in to drafting for this team of the decade. I couldn't see how paying a bit now for a 22 year old KPF would have interfered with this philosphy. Time will tell if White (or Hale) would have been a good option.

I agree that some on here have an unhealthy reverance for draft picks. I am looking at you Deeluded!

However, I'm pretty sure that Hale would have been a good option for the price we wanted (or a little bit more), and I am sure White would have been a good option for the price we wanted.

But the theme is 'the price we wanted.' Obviously, White was a lot harder to get than you thought and the price on his head was too exorbinant.

There is little point getting a FF/backup ruck if you are jettisoning another vital aspect of that flag-winning team.

I was disappointed we didn't fill that need but we have a couple of years before we hit our window to find that FF/backup ruck so we time on our side.

We will be looking in October 2011 and that's ok.

I don't care about finals appearances, I care about flags.

[ox_5 163]

I also see your point, but you need to think a little deeper.

I think we will make finals next year, and that can still be done in a development year. The thing is, we do need to kick more goals like you indicated, but we dont need to bring someone in to do this. The FD didn't just chase the tall option as only a goalkicker. We have plenty of fire power in the forward line, but unfortuntately some of our best missed most of the season. Jurrah adds 3-4 goals a game, Petterd 2 or so a game, and we can expect to see more from a more mature, heavier Jack Watts. Also Wonna missed alot of games who also adds 2+ goals a game from either his own boot or pressure.

We have the cattle to kick big scores, we just havent had them all on the park at the same time.

[dee-luded 2,958]

I agree that some on here have an unhealthy reverance for draft picks. I am looking at you Deeluded!

However, I'm pretty sure that Hale would have been a good option for the price we wanted (or a little bit more), and I am sure White would have been a good option for the price we wanted.

But the theme is 'the price we wanted.' Obviously, White was a lot harder to get than you thought and the price on his head was too exorbinant.

There is little point getting a FF/backup ruck if you are jettisoning another vital aspect of that flag-winning team.

I was disappointed we didn't fill that need but we have a couple of years before we hit our window to find that FF/backup ruck so we time on our side.

We will be looking in October 2011 and that's ok.

I don't care about finals appearances, I care about flags.

Look all you like, rpfc, you do seem to have some sort of superiority attitude. Most of us where happy to get Hale,,, for our 2nd Rnd pick, but thats all he was worth.

Mind you,, don't you feel sorry for all those other teams that missed out on Hale with their late 1st Rnd Picks & early 2nd Rnd Picks.. I'm so relieved we didn't get trampled under their stampede.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I also see your point, but you need to think a little deeper.

I think we will make finals next year, and that can still be done in a development year. The thing is, we do need to kick more goals like you indicated, but we dont need to bring someone in to do this. The FD didn't just chase the tall option as only a goalkicker. We have plenty of fire power in the forward line, but unfortuntately some of our best missed most of the season. Jurrah adds 3-4 goals a game, Petterd 2 or so a game, and we can expect to see more from a more mature, heavier Jack Watts. Also Wonna missed alot of games who also adds 2+ goals a game from either his own boot or pressure.

We have the cattle to kick big scores, we just havent had them all on the park at the same time.

I am thinking deeper Ox! When was the last time we had a fully operational forward line? Hopefully we will see some consistency of players over the next couple of seasons, just like the backline started a couple of years ago.

While you are spot on saying that we have the firepower already, we need to see more goals kicked from our midfielders, as this covers us for when our forwards like Petterd and Jurrah have their off day, which happens! I'm just not sure why they don't kick more goals than they do. Is it because they don't get the ball close enough to goal (meaning they look up and kick rather than work their way to 50m), I'm not sure. Would obviously like to see Watts start striving for 20-30 goals in 2011.

[45HG 1,539]

Can someone please give me a logical reason why teams switch late round picks (i.e. why did we throw in pick 66 with Cheney, and last year the Cats and Weagles traded a pick in the 90's for one in the 80's)?

Thanks in advance.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Can someone please give me a logical reason why teams switch late round picks (i.e. why did we throw in pick 66 with Cheney, and last year the Cats and Weagles traded a pick in the 90's for one in the 80's)?

Thanks in advance.

To try and average out what the player in question is worth.

For example, let's say Jesse White was worth pick 25, we could only offer 32, generally that wouldn't get the deal done. But, if we were to add a higher pick (for this arguement let's say 49), that would be an average of 2 pick 40's. By Sydney offering White (valued at 25) plus pick 90 for example, that would mean they are giving away 2 "picks" at an average of 57.5.

That's about as logical sequence that I can work out. Maybe be far from how the Clubs do it, but it always seems to end up around that mark.

So what pick do you think Sydney should have asked for White?

[45HG 1,539]

To try and average out what the player in question is worth.

For example, let's say Jesse White was worth pick 25, we could only offer 32, generally that wouldn't get the deal done. But, if we were to add a higher pick (for this arguement let's say 49), that would be an average of 2 pick 40's. By Sydney offering White (valued at 25) plus pick 90 for example, that would mean they are giving away 2 "picks" at an average of 57.5.

That's about as logical sequence that I can work out. Maybe be far from how the Clubs do it, but it always seems to end up around that mark.

So what pick do you think Sydney should have asked for White?

But what about the straight trade number swaps? And why wouldn't it just have been left at Cheney for 52... no need to average anything out?

I don't believe Sydney wanted to trade White at all.

[rpfc 27,498]

Look all you like, rpfc, you do seem to have some sort of superiority attitude. Most of us where happy to get Hale,,, for our 2nd Rnd pick, but thats all he was worth.

Mind you,, don't you feel sorry for all those other teams that missed out on Hale with their late 1st Rnd Picks & early 2nd Rnd Picks.. I'm so relieved we didn't get trampled under their stampede.

It is superiority complex or superior attitude. The first one makes more sense.

Yeah?! What of it?

Seriously, some of you people need to stop taking yourself so seriously.

When you think I am attacking you personally - I'm not.

Fact remains that Geelong overpaid for Ottens but got a flag.

I wouldn't mind getting a really solid FF/back-up ruck in these two years and being shafted in the deal.

I want to win a flag.

[Sir Why You Little 34,579]

Fact remains that Geelong overpaid for Ottens but got a flag.

I wouldn't mind getting a really solid FF/back-up ruck in these two years and being shafted in the deal.

I want to win a flag.

Ottens played in 2 Flags didn't he, makes him a bargain doesn't it.

I agree rp sometimes you gotta spend top dollar to make gold.

[The Chazz 4,077]

But what about the straight trade number swaps? And why wouldn't it just have been left at Cheney for 52... no need to average anything out?

I don't believe Sydney wanted to trade White at all.

I've answered your question as best as I can. For further clarification, call the MFC to find out the logic behind it and report back hey?

Now, I don't give a toss if Sydney wanted to trade him or not, I'm asking you, 45HG16, to put your opinion out there on what pick you would estimate Jesse White to be worth. Just interested to know how you rate him.

[The Chazz 4,077]

But what about the straight trade number swaps? And why wouldn't it just have been left at Cheney for 52... no need to average anything out?

I don't believe Sydney wanted to trade White at all.

Probably the best I can come up with in this case is that Cheney wanted a trade, Melbourne knew he was still contracted but wouldn't get a go (AKA list clogger), Hawthorn showed interest, but didn't think he was worth pick 52, therefore, Melbourne, to sweeten the deal, had to offer a later pick, which in turn upgraded our pick 60+ to pick 52.

Is that better?

Still waiting on your White estimate.

[e25 5]

We traded Cheney in return for a slightly upgraded pick and the opportunity to remove an unrequired yet contracted player from our list.

Contrary to what many seem to think after the Newton & Meesen scenarios of last year, it is not common practice to decide you don't want a player anymore mid-contract and then pay them out to clear places on the list.

[H_T 2,941]

We traded Cheney in return for a slightly upgraded pick and the opportunity to remove an unrequired yet contracted player from our list.

Contrary to what many seem to think after the Newton & Meesen scenarios of last year, it is not common practice to decide you don't want a player anymore mid-contract and then pay them out to clear places on the list.

Besides it makes Pelchen feel better knowing he got a pick in return so he doesn't lose sleep over it. It probably in the end help clinch the deal.

Note: The pick was upgraded by 14 picks (~1 round higher); it could well prove significant.