PJ

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Pre-emptive strike here for the posters who will no doubt give me a hard time for getting behind PJ.

He let me down today.

Drop him. Gooooooooooorn.

[Jarka 767]

Sadly he was pretty ordinary, but honestly, how many good games has he had? I mean really good and not just the occasional odd touch. We really lack a couple of quality tall players

[Chook 14,988]

He was absolutely pathetic today. OUT: Johnson, IN: Absolutely anyone who has any rucking ability at all. And WTF is up with Davey's rank disposal? Way too cute.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Sadly he was pretty ordinary, but honestly, how many good games has he had? I mean really good and not just the occasional odd touch. We really lack a couple of quality tall players

Smashed Sani last year. but your point is well made. There's no excuses for him there. Had enough inside fifties, enough delivery from a good team. He's there, he's fit enough... All he needed to do was hold two marks with his kick, and he'd be on the scoreboard. Just not good enough. Back to the VFL.

He was absolutely pathetic today. OUT: Johnson, IN: Absolutely anyone who has any rucking ability at all. And WTF is up with Davey's rank disposal? Way too cute.

In his defence, didn't he cop a nasty knock to the head in the middle part of the game?

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

I would have preferred that we played one short than play PJ. Should never play seniors again.

[saka888 54]

hope he annouces his retirement....

[furious d 447]

He has 14 weeks to improve dramatically or find a new career.

[saka888 54]

to be fair he got 4 more kicks than last game... total of 4 kicks this game

[Jaded No More 67,627]

I know Martin hasn't set the world on fire, but I was really disappointed that they dropped him in favour of PJ.

The reality is that no matter who we bring in to help Jamar, they won't be much good. The difference is that Martin and Spencer have the potential to become good solid players who give us something in the future, whereas we know that PJ is just not cut out to play footy at the highest level.

Have you ever seen a player his size who is that bad above his shoulders? It is unbelievable how poor he is when the ball comes in high.

He has to go and we have to persist with Martin for the short term at least, until Spencer and GAWN are ready. At least Martin can take a mark!

Edited May 15, 2010 by Jaded

[titan_uranus 24,575]

Dappa...glad to see you've come around.

That man is useless. Never should have got a game, should be banished for the rest of the year.

Hell, we'd get more effort from Miller or Newton or Dunn. One of them could be brought in for him and the output would increase by 100%. He is useless, Johnson, most of us knew it before today, and he proved us all right.

[Redleg 40,065]

I know Martin hasn't set the world on fire, but I was really disappointed that they dropped him in favour of PJ.

Martin has been out of the Casey side the last two weeks so he must be injured.

PS. Aussie would have been better as a second ruck today than PJ.

[Gorgoroth 12,701]

Dunn was more effective as a ruckman

[MadAsHell 4,209]

I know Martin hasn't set the world on fire, but I was really disappointed that they dropped him in favour of PJ.

The reality is that no matter who we bring in to help Jamar, they won't be much good. The difference is that Martin and Spencer have the potential to become good solid players who give us something in the future, whereas we know that PJ is just not cut out to play footy at the highest level.

Have you ever seen a player his size who is that bad above his shoulders? It is unbelievable how poor he is when the ball comes in high.

He has to go and we have to persist with Martin for the short term at least, until Spencer and GAWN are ready. At least Martin can take a mark!

Agree 100%, OUT: PJ (never to play seniors again unless 5 of our ruckmen come down with injury) IN: Martin.

Play Martin at FF to give us some form of forward structure. 5 marks inside forward 50 is not good enough, and then when Jamar needs a spell move Martin into the ruck.

I know Martin has a minor injury at the moment so in the case that he may not be fit, dare I say either Miller or Newton should get a game to play this role.

[saka888 54]

Titan,,

I agree PJ is fucken hopeless..but lets not bring in miller newton or dunn.. We are not going to make finals this year.. so we should focous on developing new players..

[Redleg 40,065]

Agree 100%, OUT: PJ (never to play seniors again unless 5 of our ruckmen come down with injury) IN: Martin.

Play Martin at FF to give us some form of forward structure. 5 marks inside forward 50 is not good enough, and then when Jamar needs a spell move Martin into the ruck.

I know Martin has a minor injury at the moment so in the case that he may not be fit, dare I say either Miller or Newton should get a game to play this role.

Martin has missed the last two Casey games so must be injured.

[Jaded No More 67,627]

Martin has missed the last two Casey games so must be injured.

You'd think I would have remembered that when I went on about how Martin should be playing

Clearly we had no choice but to scrape the bottom of the barrel, however as you said, Aussie would have been better than PJ out there today.

PJ has to go, be it for Spencer, or another runner until Martin is fit to come back.

[Guest Thomo]

Out: PJ

In: A Witches Hat

Terrible footballer. I don't think his arms went above his sholders all day. Someone needs to explain to him that he is 200cm tall. He thinks he is a wingman. I would have preferred to play with 21 players today. Actually 20 players. Hughes should not play again until he learns not to look for free kicks every time the ball comes near him. Robbo got the flick when he started that [censored].

[titan_uranus 24,575]

Titan,,

I agree PJ is fucken hopeless..but lets not bring in miller newton or dunn.. We are not going to make finals this year.. so we should focous on developing new players..

I know. But anyone with height would be better than Johnson in the ruck.

Miller has kicked 3 goals each of the last two weeks. If he does it again then we could play him forward and use him in the ruck to provide relief. I'm not saying it's the best way to go, but if Martin's truly injured then there's really not much choice.

[rpfc 28,046]

I only just now have seen your reply in the Watts thread concerning PJ, DD.

Here is a snippet:

From any reasonable perspective, Johnson is in the 22... because like any good footy judge knows (including you) the Ruckmen are not competing with the midfielders for a place in the starting side. Johnson becomes redundant when we play, say, the Hawks... Or any other side playing only 1 ruckman, because... wait for it... he's a supporting ruckman. And a good one at that. It's typical 'ology/'land groupthink that suggests Johnson isn't up to it.

Johnson is redundant as soon as he runs onto the field.

I'm sorry for the bloke but he is one of the unfortunate few who wished he was a foot shorter than he is. He is a winger (a poor one) in a ruckmans body.

Jamar has his tapwork and contested marking but PJ has nothing to set him apart from my extra runner that would allow him to be in our high-octane run and share gameplan. He does not take contested marks, his tapwork is sub-par, and his second efforts are not impressive.

If my extra runner is used as third man up in ruck contests around the ground, suddenly he (Bail, Jetta, Cheney, McNamara, whoever) is more effective in the ruck than PJ!

And don't scare the masses by saying that Watts will be back up ruck if Jamar has to go alone. In the few centre contests that Jamar isn't involved in - Warnock, Frawley, Garland, Rivers, or No One will be contesting the ruck before they throw Watts in there.

I'm sorry but it isn't group think just because everyone thinks a certain way except you.

It is time to abandon ship, DD. He is not good enough.

Edited May 15, 2010 by rpfc

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I can't support him anymore he just can't cut it.

You can only give someone the opportunity so many times, he muffs it and just doesn't seem to have the desire to impose himself out there.

[Doggo 32]

Sadly, i too agree. PJ, just not up to it.

[Adzman 2,153]

He got the benefit of the doubt last week with the weather.

This week he proved to us all that the game has passed him by.

Add PJ to the list of players who will be swept out of the club next season.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Dappa...glad to see you've come around.

I'm not there yet. He disappointed me today, and he's lost me a lot of respect. But he's still got a lot of time and a certain amount of runs on the board. At MFC? I reckon assuming he's dropped this week (pretty safe assumption) he's done and dusted, and will be moved an as I can't see him working his way into the side again with Spencer and Martin being highly regarded by the footy department. Don't tell me for a minute though that the Hawks wouldn't pick him up in a second. If there was a mid-season delist/draft he'd stroll into their starting 22.

I only just now have seen your reply in the Watts thread concerning PJ, DD.

I was wondering when you'd get to work on me with this. Was looking forward to it actually, since you post pretty strongly here...

Johnson is redundant as soon as he runs onto the field.

That's an overstatement... Ok. Maybe not an overstatement THIS week. But of course that's not true ALL the time. He'd not have been on AFL lists as long as he has been if it was.

I'm sorry for the bloke but he is one of the unfortunate few who wished he was a foot shorter than he is. He is a winger (a poor one) in a ruckmans body.

This is true of a lot of bigger lads. I happen to be a tall footballer/former ruckman. I'm a bit long in the tooth now to go back to footy, but when I did in my twenties, I discovered something that took me until I was exactly 26 to figure out. I was probably more a silky outsider (not THAT silky obviously) and didn't realise I was bigger than other players until that late stage. This, I reckon, is true of a LOT of tall footballers. It takes that ONE game where you get unbelievably painfully punished, and yet you win your contests and play effectively to realise you are, in fact, bigger than everyone else.

What I am probably guilty of, more than anything, is projecting. The guy is massive. Horizontally AND vertically. If he ever did figure out he was pretty big, and start to USE his size (took Jamar til now to click)... the improvement would be huge. But just because I had the epiphany doesn't mean he will.

Again though, I digress. He's not come to this realisation. And it's clear the footy department are still waiting for him to get there.

Jamar has his tapwork and contested marking but PJ has nothing to set him apart from my extra runner that would allow him to be in our high-octane run and share gameplan. He does not take contested marks, his tapwork is sub-par, and his second efforts are not impressive.

True of the first two points. But I've seen second efforts from him that would be up there with JMac's. For what it's worth, I still reckon he's not quite right. He hasn't had a full preseason in a while from memory, and we can all see what that has done for big Mark Jamar. In fact I reckon Jamar's fitness is what sets his '08 from his '09 and further from his '10.

If my extra runner is used as third man up in ruck contests around the ground, suddenly he (Bail, Jetta, Cheney, McNamara, whoever) is more effective in the ruck than PJ!

That's just not a suitable fix. I don't buy that that approach will win you 14+ games a year and finals. Not yet at least anyway. For the record, I didn't hate his ruckwork today. No-one can ruck that effectively when he's given 5 minutes a quarter. And in the instances he had the job on his own in the past he's racked up pretty good stats in hitouts.

And don't scare the masses by saying that Watts will be back up ruck if Jamar has to go alone. In the few centre contests that Jamar isn't involved in - Warnock, Frawley, Garland, Rivers, or No One will be contesting the ruck before they throw Watts in there.

No, maybe, no, no and no. Not one of those things has ever happened, or ever will happen. Yes, Watts hasn't ever rucked either, but picture this. We play a game where Jamar does a knee in the first minute. Who rucks then without a suitable backup ruckman? You take you tallest player who can jump. Evidently Watts, some say, is now 198cms... That's ruckman height. And again, why shouldn't he be considered as a backup if Rivers, Warnock etc etc as you claim are? Because he's new? And why would Watts helping out in the ruck "scare the masses?" Is he THAT precious?

I'm sorry but it isn't group think just because everyone thinks a certain way except you.

PJ has plenty of supporters, here and elsewhere. Most posters were happy for him to get a game this week. It's just that none are as verbose as me. Well... who is?

It is time to abandon ship, DD. He is not good enough.

I don't do that. I support players as long as the footy department do. Actually, I have jumped completely off ONE player in my life. I have never wholly jumped on a bloke's back until late '08 early '09... I even took delight in being one of the "dark side" posters who took every opportunity to highlight a players' deficiencies. That player was Mark Jamar. And he will be the last player I do that to.

I'm not saying PJ is safe, I'm not even saying he's likely to get another game, this week or in the future. But my post (both before the weekend, and in this thread) dealt with the facts. PJ has got gifts. But like Newton he can't seem to bring them to the field on match day, unless it's in the VFL. The only question, really, is if the footy department know something we don't. Many have been saying for 2 years now he'll be delisted by season's end. And they were wrong... at least last year. Which says to me the coaching panel still have some insight we don't.

There's no defending the 120 minutes he put together on the weekend. And there were very few mitigating circumstances there to hang his hat on. Low match-time, little time in the ruck, crappy delivery to forward line, no pre-season, no confidence, low fitness base, probably brought into side too early after return from long term injury.... these are all small-time excuses. And even in those circumstances, a player can show SOMETHING with 60-odd minutes on the field. All in all rpfc, you've won this battle convincingly, but the war isn't quite over with PJ.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

PJ has got gifts. But like Newton he can't seem to bring them to the field on match day, unless it's in the VFL. The only question, really, is if the footy department know something we don't. Many have been saying for 2 years now he'll be delisted by season's end. And they were wrong... at least last year. Which says to me the coaching panel still have some insight we don't.

Me thinks the penny is starting to drop DD. But only starting. Two years ago you did state he could not ruck. Today you stated he cat put it together unless its the VFL. Hmmmm.

The reality is that when Jolly was cleared MFC under Daniher did not invest in developing ruck stocks. The reality is that when White petered out and Jamar was injured, PJ failed where it counted. He is fortunate he has had an existing contract. Our list ruck stocks have been patchy and PJ has survived without reasonable competition. He wont be getting another contract. His regular periods in the VFL and the fact that Spencer, GAWN and Fitz are around should illustrate that the coaching panel do have some insight into PJ

There's no defending the 120 minutes he put together on the weekend. And there were very few mitigating circumstances there to hang his hat on. Low match-time, little time in the ruck, crappy delivery to forward line, no pre-season, no confidence, low fitness base, probably brought into side too early after return from long term injury.... these are all small-time excuses. And even in those circumstances, a player can show SOMETHING with 60-odd minutes on the field. All in all rpfc, you've won this battle convincingly, but the war isn't quite over with PJ.

Its been no different to many of the sub par performances he has put in over the past few years without showing any of the basic pre requisites of big man play.

[jumbo returns 6,703]

Sadly he was pretty ordinary, but honestly, how many good games has he had? I mean really good and not just the occasional odd touch. We really lack a couple of quality tall players

Yep, we could have drafted Naitanui.