PINK VOID

[titan_uranus 25,045]

your a harsh critic.

1. He is 25/26 years old and played 60odd games, while battling injury

2. He can kick better than Jimmy Stynes

3. He is not a forward, he is a ruckman

4. He is not a backman, he is a ruckman

5. He beat Aaron Sandilands in the ruck in the last game he played against Freo.

&

He has some real mongrel about him

He gets many more possesions than Jamar in the ruck

As No.1 ruckman, it allows Jamar to present at full forward

He is a hulk of a man and also moves around the ground very well.

All for all, I reckon PJ will have a fine career at the MFC.

I probably am a harsh critic. Under-evaluating players gets you nowhere.

If you can't play defence or forward as a ruckman then you have to be a damn good ruckman. Johnson just isn't. Name any decent ruckman and you'll see that they're either totally dominant in the middle (e.g. Sandilands, Jamar) or they can be dangerous going forward (e.g. Clark, Gardiner, Ottens). At the very least, they can link up through the middle.

Beating Sandilands once isn't enough to hang his hat on. Disagree re: possessions, but time will tell who's right. And he won't be no. 1 ruck. No way he gets that off Jamar.

[hrob 2]

it astonishes me on this site how people can be saying why isn't miller playing? and then question why pj is in? pj has all the attributes to be a great ruckmen and HAS showed this potential before and played some real good games....helllo people mark jamar is a perfect example of ruckmen becoming good at around 27.....now miller....it is a joke that this bloke has played over 100 games at afl level....get this hack n newton off our list once and for all n may we never see them on the G ever again!

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I do agree that Martin's not close to fulfilling his potential, but I still believe he has a better chance to do that at AFL level, and I also think he's still a better bet than Johnson.

To be honest, though, neither are much chop (at the moment, anyway), and neither are likely to have a massive impact on the game.

I'll give you 5:

1) He's had multiple chances at AFL level and never made it

2) He can't kick

3) He's no good as a forward

4) He's no good as a defender

5) He isn't fantastic in the ruck either

He does have good speed and agility for a man his size, and nobody can question his effort, endeavour and hunger (but that's the same for the entire playing list). But he's not going to make a decent AFL player. Martin still might.

I disagree with you about Johnson's kicking he isn't a bad kick, his biggest problem is his decision making, he needs to improve in that area and if he does he will be a handy player. He is fast and has pretty good skills and if he can learn to use is considerable size he will be a hard match up.

McDonald has played two bad games the first and the last.

Edited May 6, 2010 by RobbieF

[dee-luded 2,959]

Martin needs to grow as a player.

Even if PJ is not a long term option, I'm not sure it does Martin's development any good if he plays purely because we have no one else.

He needs to go back and re-earn his spot.

He needs to go back to Casey, not for punishment, but to put into development the things he's been learning re Key Forward play. It's a lot easier to think about & practice the skills you've been taught in the VFL.

I see him as a future Key Forward, but he looks a bit awkward at this moment. He'll come through that & become more polished & coordinated with the confidance that comes from becoming more instinctive with his forward game.

He'll be a good backup Ruck as well.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,234]

The Martin for PJ swap is the only thing I am really unsure about. We keep persisting with this guy when he has shown so little, but I suppose if you're going to sit on our list and get paid, you might as well do something. He has to be given the chance to prove to us that he is worth retaining next season. I won't hold my breath.

Great to see McKenzie back and a nice left field choice with Hughes.

On a side note, what does the week's selection say about Miller's future at Melbourne?

Martin has shown very little when forward or in ruck. He needs to go and learn these positions at Casey. PJ is an adequate backup to Jamar. He has shown enough to act as a back up ruckman to take Roughhead and to offer a contest forward if required.

Best of luck to Danny Hughes.

Best of luck to Brad Miller in whatever career he has chosen after football.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I disagree with you about Johnson's kicking he isn't a bad kick, his biggest problem is his decision making, he needs to improve in that area and if he does he will be a handy player. He is fast and has pretty good skills and if he can learn to use is considerable size he will be a hard match up.

McDonald has played two bad games the first and the last.

Imo PJ's speed is good. My concern in todays footy is his lack of lateral agility, too slow to change direction. He's cumbersome but doesn't really play tall, split packs well enough or take overhead contested marks, etc. In short, I think he plays like a midfielder but we miss-out on the big man stuff he doesn't bring.

So, all in all, IMO we'd be better with a genuine tall running mid to play PJ's role. See, Morton, Gysberts in the future, Bate, potentially Garland if he can build his motor to that of a midfielder.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

We've given Johnson that time and he's never taken his chance. Bad move I say.

Garbage. He's taken it more times than Jamar had before 2009. He smashed the best ruckman in the league last year, and the second best if you remember his game against Cox. (Though he didn't smash him, just stayed with him).

Th player very stiff not to get a spot is Cheney.

Yup. Though I think he'll get his chance again this year, particularly in a few rounds when we're up against some big opposition and the defenders start looking rough under pressure. In what will be a shootout, I think the selections are right.

All for all, I reckon PJ will have a fine career at the MFC.

There were a LOT of sooks and whingers that moaned about him last season... and now that Jamar has come so beautifully into form, they've gone a bit coy. If the player Jamar was vs the player he is now is any suggestion... Johnson will win a Brownlow. :D Not at all surprising the know-it-alls on here won't give him the same opportunity. Thankfully the footy department know how to treat a ruckman.

If you can't play defence or forward as a ruckman then you have to be a damn good ruckman. Johnson just isn't.

That about sums it up. Like I said a couple of years ago, and was howled down for it, Johnson is a second ruck. Not a starting ruckman. Though he's played good games, even good months while taking the job by himself, his gig is to give Jamar a chop out, whilst not clogging up a space on the bench.

The thing here is that I've seen him hold his own in defence for the handful of quarters he was given a job. Likewise I've seen him present as a FF, albeit on smaller grounds (you'd think he'd like a bit of room, but anyway...).

60 games, especially for a tall, is just not enough. He's been smashed by injury over and over... and has had a stuffed pre-season AGAIN.

Look out for the nay-sayers to jump on his back after the Dogs game yet again. Expecting miracles from his first game returning from injury. If they give him a few weeks, and wait and see what he does when the team is streaming into the forward line like they did in rounds 2-5, then we'll know a lot more about his forward line credentials.

[d me 0]

I remember PJ against the doggies last year. He had 22 touches and picked up 2 brownlow votes. He was actually exciting to watch during that game, and I think this is the perfect round to have him come back in.

After the rubbish scrummy football I have been watching the last two weeks (not melb v lions), I believe Brad Green is right about a fast, hard running, exciting friday night game.

Edited May 6, 2010 by d me

[joeboy 3,166]

Excellent changes IMO .

Johnson is a very agile and multi-faceted tall man who is in fine form ( for Casey ) and provides far greater flexibility than Martin .

Hughes has shown excellent form for Casey and provides an x factor with his strong marking for a shortish forward .

McKenzie's return gives us back grunt and strong tackling that was missing last week .

Edited May 6, 2010 by joeboy

[drdrake 3,187]

I rate PJ and IMO he is one player that most posters have turned on. Maybe because we all wanted him to come in to be that power forward or to be a super star ruckman. The games I have seen him play he is an above average AFL ruckman that can play forward but looks better as a rooming ruckman. He is one player that I want to have a very big year, Spencer is a mile off, Gawn wont play until next year, Martin is a better defender we need PJ to be the supporting ruckman to Jamar that plays in attack a can kick 20 goals for the year.

Hughes great effort and good luck

[Nasher 33,617]

Best of luck to Hughes. As is often the case, when one door (or several doors in this case) closes another opens. Miller's omission speaks volumes, you couldn't ask for much more than what he's done at Casey in recent weeks and still couldn't make it past Newton on the emergency list, let alone in the side.

Cheney extremely stiff, but you can understand why they've chosen the path they have.

I'm not a PJ fan, but I think the change makes sense. That said, I'd have considered leaving Jamar to go it alone.

Didn't think they'd drop Joel Mac on the back of one performance, but it was a pretty bad performance and someone had to go.

Pumped that Jordie is back. I thought we really missed his endeavour last week.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,939]

Harsh but fair call on Joel MacDonald. He was really good in all our wins but has paid the ultimate price for a pathetic performance last week. Good to see Bailey is starting to crack the whip! Just proves that we have a surplus of 190cm defenders. Rivers trade bait?

Good luck Danny Hughes!

[Deano74 156]

Selectors have it right IMO

Johnson is in front of Martin as a player and a better option at the moment.

Hughes is the perfect swap for Pettard, so at 23 hopefully the penny has dropped and he makes the most of his chance.

The tackle machine in McKenzie if fit had to come in and add extra bite around the ground.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Harsh but fair call on Joel MacDonald. He was really good in all our wins but has paid the ultimate price for a pathetic performance last week. Good to see Bailey is starting to crack the whip! Just proves that we have a surplus of 190cm defenders. Rivers trade bait?

Good luck Danny Hughes!

Oh shh-it, carefull. Don't wonna go down THAT road again (190cm)...

Edited May 6, 2010 by dee-luded

[Go Dees Attack 0]

your a harsh critic.

1. He is 25/26 years old and played 60odd games, while battling injury

2. He can kick better than Jimmy Stynes

3. He is not a forward, he is a ruckman

4. He is not a backman, he is a ruckman

5. He beat Aaron Sandilands in the ruck in the last game he played against Freo.

&

He has some real mongrel about him

He gets many more possesions than Jamar in the ruck

As No.1 ruckman, it allows Jamar to present at full forward

He is a hulk of a man and also moves around the ground very well.

All for all, I reckon PJ will have a fine career at the MFC.

Very well said. We need big men in the forward line, 85 kilos and tall does not cut it. We need a Jamar/ Johnson in the forward line to kick to. They can can use their body to push the opposition away and take easy marks and kick goals. It gives the Dees the option up forward they are missing.

Go Dees Attack

Edited May 6, 2010 by Go Dees Attack

[DeeZee 7,445]

Rivers is lucky to be in ahead of Cheney.

He has to put in a big one this week.

[Hiram Cowfreak 78]

I do agree that Martin's not close to fulfilling his potential, but I still believe he has a better chance to do that at AFL level, and I also think he's still a better bet than Johnson.

To be honest, though, neither are much chop (at the moment, anyway), and neither are likely to have a massive impact on the game.

I'll give you 5:

1) He's had multiple chances at AFL level and never made it

2) He can't kick

3) He's no good as a forward

4) He's no good as a defender

5) He isn't fantastic in the ruck either

He does have good speed and agility for a man his size, and nobody can question his effort, endeavour and hunger (but that's the same for the entire playing list). But he's not going to make a decent AFL player. Martin still might.

Can't agree on these points Titan:

PJ is a beautiful kick

Problem is PJ is a poor mark

Lets see if he has improved this year

[Go the mighty Dees 0]

The Martin for PJ swap is the only thing I am really unsure about. We keep persisting with this guy when he has shown so little, but I suppose if you're going to sit on our list and get paid, you might as well do something. He has to be given the chance to prove to us that he is worth retaining next season. I won't hold my breath.

Great to see McKenzie back and a nice left field choice with Hughes.

On a side note, what does the week's selection say about Miller's future at Melbourne?

Miller will be our contribution to the welfare of GCFC next year.

I think PJ is a good selection. Apparently absolutely dominated the hit outs last week for Casey and is mobile for a big man. Will free up the Russian to play forward for more than half the game and with his confidence currently sky high could be very influencial down there as he has been in the past. Also apparently as a junior PJ played most of his football as a fast leading tall FF. this may be the ace up the sleeve; if we can get this to work then it would provide an addional dimension to our game. He is also a very good long kick.

Hughes is a bold choice and apparently deserves his chance. If you read Brad Gotch's report on Melbourne players at Casey last week then they just about had to play him. It was positively glowing and we should get in the habit of picking on performance. Let's hope Jack Watts takes note as I'm sure he will . Likewise if players aren't performing they need to understand they will be dropped like MacDonald. A poor game last week.

Overall, I think the selectors have done a fine job.

[Go the mighty Dees 0]

PJ was shite last year, but I think some people forget he was good the year or two prior to that. Very athletic and quick for a big man, and definitely has more to offer than Spencer and Martin at the moment.

Agree whole-heartedly

[Brettmcg 24]

Anyone have any information on Rohan Bail? Either that's one serious corked thigh or there are some other issues - something to do with a wrist, from what I remember hearing?

[pringle 42]

Yeah seems to be the forgotten man this week. No-one has really mentioned much about why he isn't selected in either the Casey or demons side. Interesting one. Anyone? It's a big shame for the boy, because he was showing some good run and composure in the AFL. May have to return back through the VFL considering Morton's imminent return and the healthy competition for spots at the moment.

[Go the Biff 3,442]

Can't agree on these points Titan:

PJ is a beautiful kick

Problem is PJ is a poor mark

Lets see if he has improved this year

I think Ravi has got to the guts of the PJ question. For a bloke his size, with his athleticism, speed & skills to be a hopeless mark above his eyes - it's like God made the perfect modern day ruckman & at the last moment decided to take the [censored]. I think Rhino refers to him as a 200cm winger & he's not far off the mark.

Johnson has a lot that's good but when it comes to catching the ball - I'd prefer we had Sharelle McMahon out there.

On the bright side, the team is kicking the ball a bit better this season so maybe he'll get more opportunities - chest high, lace out. Anything else & Sharelle's the better man.

[Bobby McKenzie 2,387]

Yes, McKenzie certainly adds some grunt to our team. And, I'm happy about Hughes. Saw him for the first time last week at Southport, and really liked what I saw. He's been on the Rookie List for a very long time. Nice to see him get his chance. Just hope he repays the Footy Dept's faith in him over such a long time.

I'm sorry to say it. But, although Miller was named in the best for Casey last week, he certainly didn't dominate the way he should at that level. Reckon he needs a lot of improvement to force his way back into the Melb side.

Can't say I 'm sorry to see Brad Johnson and Eagleton out. Johnson is always dangerous and Eagleton seems to lift against us. His little bald head seems to bob up everywhere. Makes me think we are a real chance. Wouldn't put my house on it though.

I too think we missed McKenzie very much last week. He puts so much pressure on the opposition ball carriers. I love his skills too. In fact, I'm a bit worried he could end up even better than ME!!!!!

[Dee*ceiving 1,690]

PJ offers more in the ruck and around the ground than Stef Martin at this stage of his career which frees Jamar to spend more time in the F50 and spell him on the bench.

Stress related injuries are common place in today's footy and asking the Big Russian to continually ruck on his own for entire games will eventually lead to a serious and potentially long term ailment. We'd all agree that's the last thing we need just as he is really coming into his own.

[titan_uranus 25,045]

Garbage. He's taken it more times than Jamar had before 2009. He smashed the best ruckman in the league last year, and the second best if you remember his game against Cox. (Though he didn't smash him, just stayed with him).

No he hasn't. If he'd taken his chance this debate wouldn't be occuring.

Thankfully the footy department know how to treat a ruckman.

Martin?

Very well said. We need big men in the forward line, 85 kilos and tall does not cut it. We need a Jamar/ Johnson in the forward line to kick to. They can can use their body to push the opposition away and take easy marks and kick goals. It gives the Dees the option up forward they are missing.

Go Dees Attack

Can't see why Martin can't play this role. In fact, he did it quite well 2 weeks ago against Brisbane (which everyone seems to have forgotten).

Look, the end picture is that we have Jamar, a decent ruckman who is really helping us immensely both in the ruck and around the ground. But we don't yet have a viable second ruckman on our list. None of Johnson, Martin, Spencer or Meesen have shown that they are AFL quality players. My point is that I'd prefer us to be investing time in Martin, as we've seen a lot less of him, and I can see a future in him, compared to Johnson, who has had more time, is older, and just hasn't shown a great deal when he has been given his chances.