Bruce and Bate

[Webber 10,178]

For weeks now, I've been reading posters here slagging off Cam Bruce and Matthew Bate, and have been struck by the intolerance, impatience and short memories. So here are their stats from last night.

Bruce : 25 disposals, 11 kicks, 14 handballs at 92% effectiveness(3rd behind Warnock and Grimes),9 marks, 9 contested possessions (4th behind Sylvia, Petterd and Bate), NO clangers, 4 tackles (in the top half), and all at 91% game time (2nd behind Warnock).

Bate : 26 disposals (2nd), 12 kicks, 14 handballs at 69% effective (about midway), 11 marks (the most by 3), 11 contested possessions (equal top with Sylvia), 5 inside 50's (fourth best), 1 clanger and 89% game time. Matthew Bate is now coming into his 'peak' years, and patience is a virtue.

I would love to think this will go a long way toward shutting up the whingers and moaners about these two. And don't get me started on the undervaluing of Nathan Jones, who consistently delivers the ball inside 50 more times and with greater accuracy than he gets credit for. Remember also that at 22, his best is yet to come.

[timD 994]

I'd need to watch the tape to be sure, but my feel from the ground lat night was the bruce played a ripper. HArd, determined, courageous, fantastic.

[Sir Why You Little 34,705]

i will add Lynden Dunn to this thread-Thought he played a ripper as well.

Bruce & Bate played there best games so far this year-as did the whole team!

[ucanchoose 1,804]

Bruce continues to put his team mates under pressure when kicking. It might count as an effective disposal but if your teammate gets the ball then instantly gets tackled and turns it over it doesn't count against you. In saying that there wasn't nearly as much of this from him as normal.

I'll continue to to bag his disposal at games. It's genetic...

[Summer Blease 0]

Bruce is an interesting one. Firstly, let me clarify; he is a very valuable player to the MFC. He runs all game and wracks up the possessions; however his disposal is circumspect... people cringe when he has clean possession and it is for a reason- He’s disposal is not as CLEAN as you would like for someone of his stature; Although he’s efficiency stats say otherwise, a keen observer would notice that alot of his disposals only just come off, and had it not been for luck or quick thinking from a receiver- the ball could be turned over. He still sells people into trouble....

People please don’t confuse this as more ‘Bruce bashing’- I am acknowledging his efforts for this club but also acknowledging the fact that his flaky disposal is sometimes very obvious.

Re Bate and Jones- They are both turning into the players we require them to be and we can’t ask for any more. Bate is becoming the reliable ‘link’ man, sorry that doesn’t do him justice- he is everything we wanted Miller to become- the big linking/assisting pillar of strength- he is strong overhead and deceptively quick, people who want more from him are greedy and expect too much.

Jones is a little up and down, but when he is up he reminds people of what we can have, and people forget how old he is because it seems he has been there forever.. He does look like he is getting better at evading and hitting a target- very exciting, the boy can become very good, and like Bate, can become exactly what we are looking for; a tough midfielder who is evasive and picks out good targets. He and McKenzie shall have a great partnership.... if ONLY Junior was 5 years younger....

[Webber 10,178]

No question that his disposal can at times be a little flaky, but his ability to read the play and respond creatively is paramount. It is an inherent thing, and excites me when we see the team, as it currently is, 'taking the game on'. He is made for this kind of football, and it much more than makes up for his imperfections. I just hope we can get a couple more seasons out of him, and I suspect we can, because he is and endurance machine, a la Morton and Scully.

[Adelaide Demon 0]

Bruce continues to get more than his share of possessions, and has an influence on most games. His disposal is not good and appears to be getting worse with age. 1 in 4 kicks is a shank, and 1 in 3 handballs seem to miss the target by 1 metre plus. He's still one of my favourite players of the last decade without doubt, he's clearly not the player he was, and that's probably where most of the criticism comes from. If you look at his performances obvjectively, he's still playing some good footy and is in our best 22 for sure. He's still regularly getting 20+ possies and staying involved in the game which is most of the hard part.

Bate is the type of player who will take a month to find his feet so I was never concerned about his slow start to the year. He'll kick on from last night.

[sylvinator 96]

Poeple who were bagging Bate were completely off the mark. He always takes 3-4 weeks to warm up after injury... and now he's fit and firing.

He's one of our most important players with his mountain of work at CHF leading and marking

[titan_uranus 22,659]

Bate was fantastic last night. Anyone who disagrees is wrong. Sorry. He ran hard for four full quarters, presented at numerous contests, took strong marks, and even once took it upon himself to kick a goal from 50.

Bruce, however, was not dissimilar to last week, or any other week. He makes too many mistakes by hand. Sells people down the river, or misses targets altogether. Yes he runs hard, yes he makes contests, but he still can't dispose of the ball with any sort of consistency.

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,636]

Bate was great.

Bruce was Bruce, very poor disposals. The stats are a load of crap. Watch how many of his looping handpasses lead to a player have to break stride and prop to receive them. Look at how many time his handball recipients are tackled within 2 seconds of the poor handball. Look at his loopy snap-pass, that wouldn't even be counted as a clanger but was a shocker by any standards.

His time is limited.

[Alf Stewart 73]

I can think of 3 easy handballs Bruce stuffed up putting unnecessary pressure on his teammates, especially when being a link man in a chain he has to get that right.

[premiershipvigil 10]

Here, here Cam Bruce's disposal is unreliable and every chance of being fugly by hand or foot;

Every time Bruce gets the pill its a heart and mouth time for everyone because its a lottery as to whether we will be able to retain possession;

Its clear that most people recognise Cam is flawed, please stop this obsession with seeking to portray him as reliable with his disposal when he clearly is not

[GOLF 13]

So Cam Bruce is flawed?

Who do we have then, of similar size and flexibility, burning up the Scorpions and demanding selection?

[ICU2 Jerry Jerry 257]

Bate was great.

Bruce was Bruce, very poor disposals. The stats are a load of crap. Watch how many of his looping handpasses lead to a player have to break stride and prop to receive them. Look at how many time his handball recipients are tackled within 2 seconds of the poor handball. Look at his loopy snap-pass, that wouldn't even be counted as a clanger but was a shocker by any standards.

His time is limited.

+1

He does the hard stuff but his disposal is really to poor for this brand of footy

[Summer Blease 0]

So Cam Bruce is flawed?

Who do we have then, of similar size and flexibility, burning up the Scorpions and demanding selection?

He wont be replaced until his errors start becoming detrimental to the cause. As it is right now, we are playing good enough to be able to nulify his inacurate/stray passes.

Right now the positives of having Bruce far outweigh the negatives. However, seeing as hes disposal is flawed, there is always the possibility of him being pushed out by somebody whos disposal is not flawed. In saying this though, I believe Bruce's spot is safe for the remainder of his career- and poeticaly so..

[Demon trucker 1,776]

Bruce continues to put his team mates under pressure when kicking. It might count as an effective disposal but if your teammate gets the ball then instantly gets tackled and turns it over it doesn't count against you. In saying that there wasn't nearly as much of this from him as normal.

I'll continue to to bag his disposal at games. It's genetic...

you are prejudice with Bruce ,no matter how well he plays you will always find the negatives,you are like my wife i will open ten blinds and leave one unopened and my wife will say you have not opened any of the blinds.

[Demon trucker 1,776]

Bate was fantastic last night. Anyone who disagrees is wrong. Sorry. He ran hard for four full quarters, presented at numerous contests, took strong marks, and even once took it upon himself to kick a goal from 50.

Bruce, however, was not dissimilar to last week, or any other week. He makes too many mistakes by hand. Sells people down the river, or misses targets altogether. Yes he runs hard, yes he makes contests, but he still can't dispose of the ball with any sort of consistency.

you will always bash Bruce no matter how well he plays,the problem with people like you!!! is that every time one of Bruce poss is turned over by the reviver of Bruce's poss then it is Bruce's fault, that is just not fare on Bruce, and by the way we won by 8 goals if Bruce was so bad then we would of lost,because 24 turnover would cost a lot of goals,because according to people like you, every one of Bruce poss are rubbish, i think you would be a prefect Richmond supporter

[titan_uranus 22,659]

So Cam Bruce is flawed?

Who do we have then, of similar size and flexibility, burning up the Scorpions and demanding selection?

Did I, or anyone else, suggest he should be dropped?

By the way, what exact 'flexibility' does Bruce bring to the side. As I see it he's a half back flanker who could possibly play key position defence (but is no good at it) and can take turns running through the midfield. Those kind of players aren't hard to come by.

But he won't be dropped, and probably doesn't deserve it just yet. But he cannot continue to dispose of the ball the way he is now, as it just isn't good enough.

you will always bash Bruce no matter how well he plays,the problem with people like you!!! is that every time one of Bruce poss is turned over by the reviver of Bruce's poss then it is Bruce's fault, that is just not fare on Bruce, and by the way we won by 8 goals if Bruce was so bad then we would of lost,because 24 turnover would cost a lot of goals,because according to people like you, every one of Bruce poss are rubbish, i think you would be a prefect Richmond supporter

What a terrible post.

You haven't got one reason why what I said was wrong. Just a load of ramble.

Bruce often takes the ball and handpasses to someone who doesn't want it, shouldn't get it, or isn't able to take it (i.e. is flat-footed). That person is then often caught with it, or is forced to cough it up, and a lot of the time Bruce wasn't forced into that option in the first place.

Yes, I'm sure the fortunes of our team depend entirely on Bruce, and when he doesn't play well we lose.

And I wouldn't be any good as a Richmond supporter, as I have teeth.

[Summer Blease 0]

you will always bash Bruce no matter how well he plays,the problem with people like you!!! is that every time one of Bruce poss is turned over by the reviver of Bruce's poss then it is Bruce's fault, that is just not fare on Bruce, and by the way we won by 8 goals if Bruce was so bad then we would of lost,because 24 turnover would cost a lot of goals,because according to people like you, every one of Bruce poss are rubbish, i think you would be a prefect Richmond supporter

That is unfair and inacurate. Read the posts, the contention is not that Bruce should be dropped at all, rather that he doesn't put hes receivers into advantageous positions. He often has hes receivers fishing when accuracy would have assured a faster link up.

All you precious Bruce defenders must realise this. Hes basic disposal at times is sub-par. Deal with it and learn to live with it.

[dees2010 4]

Did I, or anyone else, suggest he should be dropped?

By the way, what exact 'flexibility' does Bruce bring to the side. As I see it he's a half back flanker who could possibly play key position defence (but is no good at it) and can take turns running through the midfield. Those kind of players aren't hard to come by.

But he won't be dropped, and probably doesn't deserve it just yet. But he cannot continue to dispose of the ball the way he is now, as it just isn't good enough.

What a terrible post.

You haven't got one reason why what I said was wrong. Just a load of ramble.

Bruce often takes the ball and handpasses to someone who doesn't want it, shouldn't get it, or isn't able to take it (i.e. is flat-footed). That person is then often caught with it, or is forced to cough it up, and a lot of the time Bruce wasn't forced into that option in the first place.

Yes, I'm sure the fortunes of our team depend entirely on Bruce, and when he doesn't play well we lose.

And I wouldn't be any good as a Richmond supporter, as I have teeth.

im with vincehotboy, apparntly whenever theres a turnover its bruces fault.

[DaveyJones'sLocker 587]

Bruce had more contested possesions that mcdonald

mcdonald 9 clangers

Bruce 0

But again all we hear is Bruce butchers it.....

[dee-luded 2,958]

For weeks now, I've been reading posters here slagging off Cam Bruce and Matthew Bate, and have been struck by the intolerance, impatience and short memories. So here are their stats from last night.

Bruce : 25 disposals, 11 kicks, 14 handballs at 92% effectiveness(3rd behind Warnock and Grimes),9 marks, 9 contested possessions (4th behind Sylvia, Petterd and Bate), NO clangers, 4 tackles (in the top half), and all at 91% game time (2nd behind Warnock).

Bate : 26 disposals (2nd), 12 kicks, 14 handballs at 69% effective (about midway), 11 marks (the most by 3), 11 contested possessions (equal top with Sylvia), 5 inside 50's (fourth best), 1 clanger and 89% game time. Matthew Bate is now coming into his 'peak' years, and patience is a virtue.

I would love to think this will go a long way toward shutting up the whingers and moaners about these two. And don't get me started on the undervaluing of Nathan Jones, who consistently delivers the ball inside 50 more times and with greater accuracy than he gets credit for. Remember also that at 22, his best is yet to come.

Well done boys.

[Summer Blease 0]

Stats are for librarians and mathematicians. Stats don't take into account sloppy delivery. The main point here is he is required, he has suspect disposal and will always be called out for it because more is expected of a senior player. Period.

I don't recall anyone ever saying he should be dropped- too important for that.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

For weeks now, I've been reading posters here slagging off Cam Bruce and Matthew Bate, and have been struck by the intolerance, impatience and short memories. So here are their stats from last night.

Bruce : 25 disposals, 11 kicks, 14 handballs at 92% effectiveness(3rd behind Warnock and Grimes),9 marks, 9 contested possessions (4th behind Sylvia, Petterd and Bate), NO clangers, 4 tackles (in the top half), and all at 91% game time (2nd behind Warnock).

Bate : 26 disposals (2nd), 12 kicks, 14 handballs at 69% effective (about midway), 11 marks (the most by 3), 11 contested possessions (equal top with Sylvia), 5 inside 50's (fourth best), 1 clanger and 89% game time. Matthew Bate is now coming into his 'peak' years, and patience is a virtue.

I would love to think this will go a long way toward shutting up the whingers and moaners about these two. And don't get me started on the undervaluing of Nathan Jones, who consistently delivers the ball inside 50 more times and with greater accuracy than he gets credit for. Remember also that at 22, his best is yet to come.

It's not about impatience.

These threads are just as bad as the "bashing" threads as you call them.

Bruce and Bate played exactly how they should have played last night and it's about time. In fact,

I wouldn't have been surprised if Bails and the coaching staff had a stern chat to them both about standing

up in this game.

I expect Bate to play with this consistency from now on and the same goes with Bruce.

I will continue to wine and moan if they drop off again next week and the week after. They have set the standard for themselves

now.

Nathan Jones is different. He has had a fantastic first 5 rounds and we can see that his disposal has improved tenfold. Terrific to see.

Wouldn't surprise me if he was leading the bluey.

[Lost Highway 31]

Bruce's disposal was not as bad last night as some have claimed. There were a few hospital handpasses, but there were a lot of well delivered kicks and he improved as the match went on. Above all, there was a hell of a lot of run, and a supremely good job of closing down an opponent. He won't be dropped and shouldn't be, as long as he can do this. He has an amazing ability to stick like glue to a player, and despite mucking up sometimes with his handballing, he actually has very clean hands when it comes to taking the ball off the ground or the pack, or an opponent. Time some people began to look at his positives as he is an important part of the defence.

Bate played his first good game for the year; it's incorrect to say he played this well in the previous week. I hope he can keep this up.

Fact is, both of these players can run and run and have good balance.