The Problem

[Redleg 37,909]

IMO we are being punished for not drafting or trading for some key forwards over the last few seasons. Leaving Watts aside as he still may become one, we are as a result a side that can't go forward with any confidence. One Leigh Brown type while no champion would at least help straighten us up. As a consequence when a player has the ball and looks up to see Petterd with two on him, the result is a sideways handball and probably a quick turnover. The small forward is then made redundant because the ball is not coming down quickly to the key forward, who if he can't mark it, can still bring it to ground for the small forward. The answer to all of that is you don't score much, as we witnessed today against an undermanned hawthorn.

Two other things that I see as major problems are a total lack of disposal skill across the whole club and what appears to be a lack of direction from those in charge. Our skill errors cost us possibly 10 goals today and some were just unbelievable. Dropped chest marks coupled with an inability to pass a football by either hand or foot, even over a small distance have become the norm for us. It looked like a B grade amateur team against an AFL team. With skill like we saw today there is no way they can win a game. Hopefully it will improve in the coming weeks.

Lastly as to the lack of direction I will state a few reasons for my conclusion. To play Spencer forward when he doesn't take marks and is cumbersome and yet not keep Jamar down there while resting to provide a big body and a contest was IMO a big mistake. Spencer was actually beaten in the ruck twice by a first gamer who is 183cms, that is sick. To ask a first gamer in Strauss to take the kick ins was an admission that we had no one else who could and then we watched him destroy a lot of his confidence by constantly fluffing his kicks and turning it over. To see players who do not know what to do when they get the ball, but always go the handball option even when it is the worst option, is testament to a lack of pre season coaching as to pressure situations. A great example was Frawley who instead of clearing the zone kept looking for the handball until he gives it to a player under pressure who is closer to goal and hey presto another hawks goal. This happened continuously today with a number of players. I actually think we looked far worse than last year today.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Redleg

[Western Demon 0]

Give Mrs Red Leg our best regards, and we hope her headache gets better.

Keep looking on the bright side - you probably would've put your back out anyway.

[Sir Why You Little 34,707]

I cannot work out why cameron Bruce still gets a game and robbo was not given a 1 year contract which would have cost us virtually nothing.

For all his faults Robbo would take some marks and kick some goals.

Cam Bruce may be a top bloke who really tries, but he is just not up to modern AFL, & thus is not a great leader for our kids.

Brad Green hats off to you mate, proved his worth today.

The one positive from today. They kept tackling.

Bailey and the coaching panel are under the hammer now.

The team was older with more experience than Hawthorn today on paper.

Show us what you can do Dean. Take some Risks please. The first half today was a shambles.

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,349]

Should've drafted Daniel Bradshaw with pick 1 in the PSD. I know you guys scoffed at the suggestion but at least we would have someone to kick to inside 50. Surely he would've been more value than Joel MacDonald who everyone was saying was rubbish today.

I guess we were too nice and let him go to Sydney and give them evey chance to make the finals...even though we had salary space. I know he's not the future but at least he might have made us a tiny bit more competitive over the next 3 years.

And I can't be arsed arguing why we didn't invest in a top 18 draft pick on a key forward.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Bring-Back-Powell

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,294]

If you look at recent drafts aside from Tippett 2 picks after Petterd there has not really been many options. Those that have gone around our picks have not set the world on fire.

2006 Riewoldt, Sellar and Mitch Brown were taken within 10 picks of Frawley

2007 Tayte Pears was the only key position taken within 10 picks of Maric.

2008 Trengove, McKernan and Post were all taken within 10 picks of Blease and Strauss.

The skill errors in the first half were poor granted but majority were caused by senior players or senior players putting the less experienced under undue pressure.The quicker they are pushed out of the side the better.

I can make no sense of why Jamar spent little time forward or why our forwards choose not to hold ground inside 50m for the entire first half.

Edited March 27, 2010 by big_red_fire_engine

[jayceebee31 671]

I cannot work out why cameron Bruce still gets a game and robbo was not given a 1 year contract which would have cost us virtually nothing.

For all his faults Robbo would take some marks and kick some goals.

Cam Bruce may be a top bloke who really tries, but he is just not up to modern AFL, & thus is not a great leader for our kids.

Brad Green hats off to you mate, proved his worth today.

The one positive from today. They kept tackling.

Bailey and the coaching panel are under the hammer now.

The team was older with more experience than Hawthorn today on paper.

Show us what you can do Dean. Take some Risks please. The first half today was a shambles.

I have been saying this for a long time now - the football department needs to be heavily scrutinised especially after this appalling, insipid,pathetic game. No excuse- and unacceptable performace.Our backline was horrible ,our forward line -just not functioning.We have been training since 12th October 2009 yet our skill levels was like a side that had amateurs coaching the team with no game plan & shocking coaching decisions including match ups etc.. .

Edited March 27, 2010 by jayceebee31

[Redleg 37,909]

The skill errors in the first half were poor granted but majority were caused by senior players or senior players putting the less experienced under undue pressure.The quicker they are pushed out of the side the better.

I can make no sense of why Jamar spent little time forward or why our forwards choose not to hold ground inside 50m for the entire first half.

Thought the skill errors were rife through the team. Bruce, Bennell, Dunn and Strauss, who I forgive as it was his first game, were the leading culprits.

Agree, there was little sense in keeping Jamar away from the forward line.

[Demon16 69]

IMO we are being punished for not drafting or trading for some key forwards over the last few seasons. Leaving Watts aside as he still may become one, we are as a result a side that can't go forward with any confidence. One Leigh Brown type while no champion would at least help straighten us up.

thats why it is soo important we get Garland fit and into the forward line. people say we need him down back but we really don't. as seen today it is more important to have a big target up forward than add another big backman to an already capable defense.a forward target will give us structure and reduce the turnovers off half forward which absolutely kill us.

As a side note, Brad Miller should consider a permanent move to a modelling career, he was an absolute disgrace today.

[Roost It 1,434]

The thing that hurt most today was when Grimes was flattened and only Davey gave a mild shove to the culprit. What happened was a junior player was unfairly knocked hard on his arse and left lying on the field. Not one big bodied defender went over and put the Hawthorn player on his arse. Unacceptable.

Oh and I finally realised why Dunn will be lucky to ever play AFL again. He's a watcher not a doer. Unacceptable

Our senior players bar Green and the Captain completely went missing today. Unacceptable

I'm not even going to mention the game played by ----, possibly the single worst game I seen from someone who many rate as an AFL player, including myself.

Thank god we recruited Scully and Trengove. I say bring Garland, Watts, Blease, Gysberts and Maric in and get games into them.

Ricky Petterd is our best forward by a country mile. A truly sad reality. No axe with Ricky I think he's a good one.

I think we should persist with Jamie Bennell, there's something about this kid even though it was far from his best game.

Moloney has always and continues to worry me.

Davey needs to get his fitness up to scratch ASAP

Jordie McKenzie could well be another great rookie find for us.

One of our ruckmen should not be seen in a Melbourne jumper until he vaguely resembles an AFL player

We tackled really well today

We played really poorly today

Thank god we recruited Scully and Trengove.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Roost It

[Longsufferingnomore 1,484]

On SEN on the way home OX said he felt that Miller should return down back where he played he said his best games. I think he said that Warnock should go to forward line. The other noticeable thing today was Hawthorns ability to shepherd a Melbourne player off playing the ball. We looked insipid in the strength department and why didnt anyone go to Strauss/Grimes aid when he was put down behind play. The comment was also made that Bailey was recontracted because obviously the Club knows what it is trying to achieve in the development of the younger players and that during the period of development it was better to have stability. Today showed that we just have to accept that we are still early into that development stage and we all should concentrate on what the likes of Scully, Grimes, Trengove, Pettard. Strauss etc achieve each week. A comment on one of the stations also worringly stated that the club were disappointed in the way Watts had not developed as quickly as they had expected. On the plus side we have Garland and Blease to watch later on. Of course hopefully Col will be back next week. I just hope that next week is not like today because it would be doubly worse to have sit with all those bogans laughing at us. It was bad enough Hawthorn supporters but at least they are civilised if not smug.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

The thing that hurt most today was when Grimes was flattened and only Davey gave a mild shove to the culprit. What happened was a junior player was unfairly knocked hard on his arse and left lying on the field. Not one big bodied defender went over and put the Hawthorn player on his arse. Unacceptable.

Oh and I finally realised why Dunn will be lucky to ever play AFL again. He's a watcher not a doer. Unacceptable

Our senior players bar Green and the Captain completely went missing today. Unacceptable

I'm not even going to mention the game played by ----, possibly the single worst game I seen from someone who many rate as an AFL player, including myself.

Thank god we recruited Scully and Trengove. I say bring Garland, Watts, Blease, Gysberts and Maric in and get games into them.

Ricky Petterd is our best forward by a country mile. A truly sad reality. No axe with Ricky I think he's a good one.

I think we should persist with Jamie Bennell, there's something about this kid even though it was far from his best game.

Moloney has always and continues to worry me.

Davey needs to get his fitness up to scratch ASAP

Jordie McKenzie could well be another great rookie find for us.

One of our ruckmen should not be seen in a Melbourne jumper until he vaguely resembles an AFL player

We tackled really well today

We played really poorly today

Thank god we recruited Scully and Trengove.

I have wondered why Dunn hasn't been given a better go in the past and like you I now know why. He was terrible he has no idea of how to play a team game and is a kick chaser who loses interest when he is not in the middle of the play.

Miller was just awful today he did nothing and was flattered by the two goals, I don't think he has a clue when he is under pressure and looks as if he belongs in the stand with other spectators.

Not convinced about Macdonald he loses his man too often and gets caught out of position all the time, he spent a lot of the day waving his arms like a windmill. That effort(?) of his when he was run down chasing the ball after getting a 10mtr start was appalling.

Strauss. What happened to him in the goal square today was nothing short of disgraceful he should have been dragged and told that it was unacceptable.

There were a couple of players that put in short steps today and it was embarrassing to watch.

Some of Frawly's kicking was not even up to VFL level, he puts the receiver under enormous pressure with dinky little floaters.

I have always liked Cam Bruce but today he was dreadful and some of his hand passes were as bad as anything I've seen watching any level of football.

Hawthorn had their second string side in today and were far above us in Skill, Courage, Tenacity and Class. It was like they were having a training run and they treated us with contempt.

How brad Green is not the captain of our side is a mystery, he is by far and away our best player and did more in the 2 and a half quarters he was on than most did in 4.

We will struggle to win any game this year, our first thought every time we have the ball is to handball and we are no good at it. It seems to me at times we do it so we won't be the one caught with the ball.

If anyone asked me to name two good or even reasonable players for Melbourne today I would struggle.

Rivers was ok Green was sensational considering and the rest you can have.

[Redleg 37,909]

thats why it is soo important we get Garland fit and into the forward line. people say we need him down back but we really don't. as seen today it is more important to have a big target up forward than add another big backman to an already capable defense.a forward target will give us structure and reduce the turnovers off half forward which absolutely kill us.

As a side note, Brad Miller should consider a permanent move to a modelling career, he was an absolute disgrace today.

Garland and Sylvia will help our forward structure as will Jurrah when he finally returns. Even Aussie is sorely missed. I wish we could ram 6 more kilos of muscle onto Watts overnight.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

As a consequence when a player has the ball and looks up to see Petterd with two on him, the result is a sideways handball and probably a quick turnover.

This was mentioned after round 1, 2007.

EDIT: It was also mentioned in 2008 and 2009.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Clint Bizkit

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Should've drafted Daniel Bradshaw with pick 1 in the PSD.

Agreed.

[45HG 1,539]

I agree with you Redleg, however I also feel that the speed at which we move the ball always comes back to hurt us. Maybe the opposition exploit it, but we move the ball at pedestrian pace and are never able to make the most of a turnover as we should

[demoniac 1,243]

if the answer is Leigh Brown then the question is flawed.

[dreamin' man 0]

Please cut Strauss some slack. First game in extreme circumstances. I'm despairing, too.

[Supreme_Demon 3,011]

I agree that Melbourne needs to draft or trade for another major key forward.

Hopefully we don't finish last this year.

But whatever place we finish on the ladder we MUST take the best available...which will hopefully be a key forward. As that is what we need the most!

I think today also shows how much bad luck Melbourne has had with with key-forwards and injuries in the past 10 years. For example; Luke Molan and Nick Smith.

Plus I really don't know what is going on with Michael Newton.

Let's hope he remembers that it's basically his LAST CHANCE to be an AFL player and make an impact.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Supreme_Demon

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Melbourne should be looking to trade for an established forward. Should have got Bradshaw.

[Supermercado 2,645]

Surely there's a 20+ KPF with a proven record in the WAFL or SANFL that we could have looked at with a late pick (given that we were pretty much out of the PSD and rookie draft).

Christ even if they're 27 years old at least a big body down there would drag some of the better big defenders away and give the other guys a chance to get near the thing. I'm not convinced by this theory that every player has to be 15 years old or you're going totally in the wrong direction. One or two mature aged players where they're required, picked up with selections that would only be used on a speculative youngster anyway, surely couldn't hurt.

Look at when West Coast got Troy Wilson. They were a pretty ordinary side at the time but a 29 year old kicked 83 goals in 37 games, and I'll bet he won a few games off his own boot while he was doing it. It might not work and you might get somebody ordinary like Aaron Edwards, but bloody hell the way we're going Aaron Edwards might almost walk into our forward line.

[Jaded No More 58,686]

Now is not the time to be drafting forwards in the twilight of their career.

We are in the completely wrong time in our cycle to even contemplate that.

Lets get a team together which is mildly competent and then look at filling gaps with established players. At the moment nobody in their right mind would choose to end their career with us, nor will they help us achieve our long term goals.

[Redleg 37,909]

Now is not the time to be drafting forwards in the twilight of their career.

We are in the completely wrong time in our cycle to even contemplate that.

Lets get a team together which is mildly competent and then look at filling gaps with established players. At the moment nobody in their right mind would choose to end their career with us, nor will they help us achieve our long term goals.

I don't know if I agree anymore Jaded. You won't have a team that is mildy competent if it has no forward line and does what we did yesterday. This "cycle" and "premiershipclock" or "window of opportunity" sloganism is starting to give me the irits. Clubs should be trying to perform well all the time and while doing that the younger players get a winning culture, sorry for the slogan, and learn a game style. What harm does it do to draft/trade a big body forward who can give us 3-4 years and a target while Watts, Fitzpatrick etc develop. Getting smashed and playing crap football is not a way to learn or develop a team. I used Leigh Brown only as an example of a big strong forward who actually can also have spells in the ruck and backline. I think the Pies are happy to have him and there must be others around. This policy of we are only looking at youth for every pick and deal is in need of a little fine tuning. We seem to have plenty of young immature footballers and a couple of big bodies to give us some strength and leadership on the field may be worth its weight in gold.

I suppose I should add that we have been a little unlucky in some picks like Molan, Meesen, Smith and you could probably add Dunn and Newton.

Unfortunately we need to wait until Oct/Nov to further address the issue.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Redleg

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I don't know if I agree anymore Jaded. You won't have a team that is mildy competent if it has no forward line and does what we did yesterday. This "cycle" and "premiershipclock" or "window of opportunity" sloganism is starting to give me the irits. Clubs should be trying to perform well all the time and while doing that the younger players get a winning culture, sorry for the slogan, and learn a game style. What harm does it do to draft/trade a big body forward who can give us 3-4 years and a target while Watts, Fitzpatrick etc develop. Getting smashed and playing crap football is not a way to learn or develop a team. I used Leigh Brown only as an example of a big strong forward who actually can also have spells in the ruck and backline. I think the Pies are happy to have him and there must be others around. This policy of we are only looking at youth for every pick and deal is in need of a little fine tuning. We seem to have plenty of young immature footballers and a couple of big bodies to give us some strength and leadership on the field may be worth its weight in gold.

Spot on in all accounts Redleg. The two highlighted sections are key and are issues that I have been thinking about in recent time.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

we were kicking to the ponsford end, and the Hawks were given a free, there was some sort of delay getting the ball back to the player which meant everyone had ample times to get into position and man up... yet, when he got the ball back he looked up to see a teammate 40 metres up the field, straight in the corridor, with nobody anywhere near him and of course he took that option and away they went

I honestly could not believe what I was seeing, when I was in the under-11s I had enough nous to realise that if you left an opponent alone in the perfect spot like that he was definitely going to get it passed to him so I went and manned him up. How we can continue to witness these fundamental errors really blows mt mind, and is tarting to make me have grave doubts about the coach

[Axis of Bob 10,311]

If we were trying to perform well this year instead of trying to win a premiership down the track then we would have traded for Fevola.

I'm sure that I'd rather be trying to win a flag in 4 years with Gysberts and Tapscott, though. That said, I'd be looking to bring Martin into the side next week.

The biggest problem is that we are afraid to make mistakes. We aren't breaking through the lines because that requires taking a risk, and most of our players are afraid to make a mistake. A few times in the 3rd quarter Scully took the ball and just ran forward despite the risks involved, and we looked more dangerous.

The idea that you drag Strauss, a kid in his first game trying to get used to the massive step up in intensity and pressure, because he dropped a mark is absolutely stupid. It might make RobbieF feel better that he's managed to yell at a kid like the big tough internet hero he is, but it is so counter-productive to make a kid, who is already scared of making a mistake, even more afraid of making a mistake when we are wanting him to feel calm and composed.

How exactly will yelling at him stop him dropping the mark next time? Was he trying to drop the mark this time, so you need to tell him that he needs to try to take the mark? Was he not trying hard enough to take the mark?

People need to think.