Who to trade

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

I think you'll find that Bell has another year on his contract, so unless you want to pay that out, the team may have to keep him. i think that whoever said you wouldn't get a can of beans for him perhaps doesn't read the market very well. Perhaps the best thing for the Demons, and for Bell is to trade him... then again, perhaps in a different team, he could be a different player....

It was me. But really what do you think he is worth? I don't think we would get much for him and he would be better as a filler for the next year and a half.

[rpfc 28,779]

Gone: Bell, Wheately, Whelan, Mcdonald, Robertson

Sylvia, Moloney and Mclean are 3 of our top 4 players.

Green and Bruce will stay. Newton won't be delisted. Either will Dunn. I still don't know why Newton isn't playing in our team. He is just one of those players that I rate that no-else does. Like I rate Wheately and rated Ward in his day because he ran the lines and had a nice long accurate kicks. Oh well, stick with Brad Miller and see how far you get. We currently have a first rate Key forward on our list and we aren't even playing him. wtf! I just dont get it. anyway, end of rant

You are on the money with everything except the part about Newton. He will be here next year and he will get his opportunity but Miller showed on the weekend with his dominant display after a slow start that he isn't as skillful as Newton, but he is a far better player.

If Newton came in I would give the same reason for his underperformance that I give to Robertson, Bate, Petterd, Jetta, and Miller - the ball is not down there enough, nor is it delivered well enough.

About 20 less Inside 50s than the Saints, 15 less than the Pies, etc.

Newton is lucky he is not in the team at the moment, he wouldn't get near it as a deep forward (Sylvia has had to push up hard to get his many touches).

If he was playing I dare say it would only serve those of us who think he isn't good enough.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

This is our prob at the moment, a player who gets it 25+ times but does not use it that well all the time is in our top 5, Ina few years time he will be between 8 - 15 in our B&F then we will be a contender.

Actually, in a few years time Bruce will be long gone. He's not that young, and is heading down that road Yze went down, where he just gets skinnier and skinnier in order to maintain his engine. If the squad makes the finals in the year after next, he might play a cameo, but don't hold your breath.

This is why I can't stand it when people get stuck into JMac, Bruce and others. These guys know they won't be part of a premiership, and yet they go out and do their utmost to lift a squad of scared teenagers. They KNOW they're not the Abletts, Judds and Mitchells of the comp, but they hold their heads high...

It's a simple question of roles. Bruce is doing his job superbly IMO. And as for the others, like Green, Whelan, JMac... they have one bad week, against a team playing like premiers, and everyone calls for them to be dropped next week. As though that will improve matters. The whole thing makes me want to [censored] demonland off and go to 'ology, where at least sometimes they have a hint of perspective.

And those people thinking PJ is gone are blind. He gets the job on his own for a month, and more than does his job... and the week Jamar comes back he's now the ugly stepchild. At least he's taking the game on, taking some risks. Jamar, while taking his annual few marks, is still getting hardly any touches. He quadrouples the hitouts of the pies, and yet our midfield is smashed?!!! PJ showed more when he had the main job than Jamar has in any 4-week stretch in his career to date.

PJ will stay, and will stay for a good many years yet. I'd put my house on it...

If I had a house...

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

limitation above the shoulders? are u referring to his overhead marking? if so, thats the last thing you should be bringing up when referring to Newton. He is a great overhead mark. If Watts can get a game after 22 soft touches in the vfl then newton should get promoted after taking 5 contested marks a week, 18 or so touches and several goals a week. Not to mention his chasing and tackling. I still maintain he is a 50+ goal a year forward. Has no flaws. His kicking isnt even a flaw..its a great asset of his that simply is a bit out of form.

Its between his ears.

You should stop trying to judge players on a misconceived notion of kicking. Your "has no flaws" is laughable. And even you should be seeing that Watts and Newton are on different devlopmental paths with different prospects. Its not just about kicks and mark stats.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

PJ will stay, and will stay for a good many years yet. I'd put my house on it...

If I had a house...

You're lucky then.

[Jaded No More 68,974]

And those people thinking PJ is gone are blind. He gets the job on his own for a month, and more than does his job... and the week Jamar comes back he's now the ugly stepchild. At least he's taking the game on, taking some risks. Jamar, while taking his annual few marks, is still getting hardly any touches. He quadrouples the hitouts of the pies, and yet our midfield is smashed?!!! PJ showed more when he had the main job than Jamar has in any 4-week stretch in his career to date.

PJ will stay, and will stay for a good many years yet. I'd put my house on it...

If I had a house...

It shows that you haven't been to a game in a long while.

PJ is a terrible ruckman, and a liability around the ground. The only thing he has going for him at the moment is fitness.

If Meesen was fit, I reckon he would have been sent to Casey as soon as Jamar became available.

In the past few weeks he has cost us at least 4 goals from direct turnovers. He actually missed a handball target yesterday right in front of goal, which pretty much summed up his ability. He can't play KP, and he can't play as a link-up player. What's left then?

And nobody questions Bruce or Whelan's commitment or effort (although Bruce missed a couple of contests yesterday), the question is in regards to their skills, and if their skills and decision making is detrimental to the team, they should be made accountable.

[H_T 3,049]

limitation above the shoulders? are u referring to his overhead marking? if so, thats the last thing you should be bringing up when referring to Newton. He is a great overhead mark. If Watts can get a game after 22 soft touches in the vfl then newton should get promoted after taking 5 contested marks a week, 18 or so touches and several goals a week. Not to mention his chasing and tackling. I still maintain he is a 50+ goal a year forward. Has no flaws. His kicking isnt even a flaw..its a great asset of his that simply is a bit out of form.

Sorry but.....

Did you see that game against Adelaide Freak?

In all seriousness, I 'hope' Newton improves out of sight and becomes something for Melbourne. However, I cannot see it happening at the moment.

If he had no flaws Freak, he'd be playing for Melbourne and not spending a significant amount of time at Casey to work on .....his flaws!

[Cards13 9,117]

I think you'll find that Bell has another year on his contract, so unless you want to pay that out, the team may have to keep him. i think that whoever said you wouldn't get a can of beans for him perhaps doesn't read the market very well. Perhaps the best thing for the Demons, and for Bell is to trade him... then again, perhaps in a different team, he could be a different player....

I have not said anything about any player being sacked at seasons end, I mentioned that the players people keep putting up the club would not get a return on. While I see what you're saying who would trade for Bell, it's is beyond me.

[sylvinator 96]

Newton's major flaw isn't his kicking, which is pretty awful and it isn't even his chasing, pressure and tackling, which is pretty average at best.... it is that he is absolutely hopeless below his knees.

Once the ball hits the ground, Newton is out of the context, allowing opposition defenders to stream out of defence with ease. I have seen this happen countless times... many times a game when he has played for Melbourne in the seniors.

In modern football, this is a cardinal sin and unfortunately, becuase of his lack of mobility, it is something that he will never be able to improve to a substanital enough degree.

Don't rate Newton one little bit.... he simply doesn't have the attributes to become a good footballer. Newton is not similar to improved players like Frawley, Garland and Sylvia, who always had the attributes... tackling, pace, skill, marking, atheletisism etc... but who needed time and mental effort and who it was only a matter of time before it all clicked into place.

I would delist at end of the year.

I would play Miller, Bate, Watts, Jurrah and even Hughes ahead of Newton.

[furious d 472]

The biggest problem with our list atm is it's imbalance. At the beginning of this season we didn't have one player aged 26. The only 27 year old was Wheatley and he hasn't played a game yet, and Green, who missed 4 weeks with a broken jaw, was the only 28 year old. No team will succeed with such slim pickings between 26-28. When thinking about trading we have to make sure we don't repeat that situation 4 years from now. I think we need to realistically aim at 2014 as it will take that long to work the imbalance out of our list. With that in mind here's a list of our players ages at Apr 1 2010 and 2014 in brackets. I've underlined the untouchables IMO.

19 at 1/4/10 (23 in 2014)

Bennell

Blease

Maric

McNamara

Strauss

Watts

Healey*

McKenzie*

I'd expect Blease, Maric and Strauss to make it and McKenzie has impressed me but largely unknown quantities at this stage.

20 at 1/4/10 (24)

Cheney

Grimes

Jetta

Morton

Spencer*

Zomer*

Grimes and Morton are class and Cheney, Jetta and Spencer could make it but Zomer may Struggle

21 at 1/4/10 (25)

Bail

Frawley

Garland

Jurrah

Petterd

Wonnaemirri

Wonna should come on but injuries this year still leave question marks, Ricky could end up at GC and Jurrah and Bail are still speculative.

All in all I think we're tracking ok with these age group as we probably need 12 of these blokes to make it at least. It's the next 3 age brackets where we have to be careful.

22 at 1/4/10 (26)

Bartram

Bate

Buckley

Dunn

Jones

Newton

Nothing but question marks here for me. I'd expect maybe 3 of these blokes here by 2014.

23 at 1/4/10 (27)

Martin

Meesen

Valenti*

I don't think Valenti's good enough, Meesen still has reasonable question marks.

24 at 1/4/10 (28)

Bell

McLean

Sylvia

Hughes*

Trading Brock or Col will leave us compromised in the 26-28 age bracket again in 4 years time. 6 blokes at this stage of their career would be a bare minimum in my opinion and we'll only just get there.

25 at 1/4/10 (29)

Johnson, Rivers, Warnock

26 at 1/4/10 (30)

Davey, Jamar, miller, Moloney

Rivers Warnock, Davey and Moloney should be retained as long as their bodies allow and Jamar, Johnson and Miller should stay until younger blood forces them out.

Currently I wouldn't trade anyone older than Stef Martin as I think we'll need what's left of them in 2014. The obvious place to look for potential trades is the 22 year old bracket and I think Jones is the one who'd attract most interest, you'd probably get a nibble or two for Bate as well but then we'll struggle to find enough of them to keep. I wouldn't be trading anyone at present.

Jmac, Robbo, Bruce Wheels, Green, Wheat, Miller, 2 of our current ruckmen, Bell Newton and probably 2 of Bartram, Bate, Buckley and Dunn should all be gone by 2014 and a few more will have become apparent by the latter years of this plan. Ideally we should be looking to turnover 3 to 4 players a year during this period. The good thing is we can build the list over this period of time without losing too much of value through natural attrition

[Trisul 664]

I think DB played an un-called misere yesterday (with a smirk). Selections are IMO part of this. Really don't think selection, or lack thereof, can be used as some sort of 'win' call by posters.

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

Wow. Unbelievably stupid and pathetically topical post.

Bruce to retire? Have you watched him at all this season? We all know he can't kick, but he's in our top 5 this year for B&F.

You should add this post to every other "insert least-favourite players names here" thread we've had the first 11 rounds this year. MFC fans like you make me sick.

First McDonald now Bruce. Who will be the next hack you will stick up for? I don't care where he finishes in the B&F he adds no value to this team. The sooner we get rid of our pathetic senior players the better.

[Roost It 1,434]

Other than players we need to keep the only tradeable player we have is Mclean and I doubt the club would have the stomach for that.

[Carn dees 108]

Im sick of people giving it to our senior player ffs, bruce robbo macca whelan etc.

They have done heaps for this club and should be respected. Im not disagreeing that they arent apart of our future but if they choose to retire or you would think they should retire just say it, dont say hes a hack hes a worthless old peice off so and so.

What do we do in say 10 years time when Brock, Frawley, Garland etc are past there day, will they cop the same treatment.

Overall i do believe Brucey Macca and robbo should retire in the next year or so, but i am great full for what they have done for the dees.

[Demon Disciple 12,274]

i would trade Bate (no pun intended) or Miller for the right price. Both of them play only 1 good game in about 8, they are way too inconsistent and the team can only afford one of them if our forward line is going to mean business in the future. Both play the lead up CHF position and are slowish, Bate has a better kick but isn't as good as 'Frosty' below his needs and isn't as physical, but he has a much better kick than Miller.

One of them needs to go, because if Jurrah comes on we would have Watts, Jurrah, either Frosty or Bate, possibly Butcher and Newton (god forbid). There's only room for 1 of them.

[sylvinator 96]

We have no one to trade that would get anything of value other than the draftees from the last 3 years, which we obviuosly wouldn't trade.

IMHO the ONLY 2 players on our list which I could see traded would be Pettard or Miller to the GoldCoast (both from there)

If we got a 2nd round pick for either of them I would take it... especially if we pick up Butcher this year... With Watts, Butcher, Jurra on our list, we probably won't need Miller. He would have really good currency

[Swampfox 190]

In order to gain a good player you have to have a good player on offer

this is also a case for trading for a high draft pick

Medhurst / Tarrant is an example of smart trading by the pies

the best trade deal i can remember was funnily enough Richmond when they traded Billy Barrot to StKilda for Ian Stewart

Barrot went downhill fast and retired soon after and Stewart played like the champion he was at the saints and won his 3rd brownlow

Currently at Melbourne you could only realistically trade a player you have seen for a few seasons like Dunn , Jones , Bate etc

No way anyone would take players like McDonald , Robertson , Bruce , or Whelan as your 5 - 6 years too late

IMO players 25 - 26 (and in rare cases 27) are at their peak in most athletic body contact sports

[Matt Demon 1,482]

You are on the money with everything except the part about Newton. He will be here next year and he will get his opportunity but Miller showed on the weekend with his dominant display after a slow start that he isn't as skillful as Newton, but he is a far better player.

If Newton came in I would give the same reason for his underperformance that I give to Robertson, Bate, Petterd, Jetta, and Miller - the ball is not down there enough, nor is it delivered well enough.

About 20 less Inside 50s than the Saints, 15 less than the Pies, etc.

Newton is lucky he is not in the team at the moment, he wouldn't get near it as a deep forward (Sylvia has had to push up hard to get his many touches).

If he was playing I dare say it would only serve those of us who think he isn't good enough.

Miller or Newton???

It's like choosing between the two dud kids In the play ground at school!

[rpfc 28,779]

Miller or Newton???

It's like choosing between the two dud kids In the play ground at school!

Except one of those kids is fearless, selfless, and is a leader of men.

Oh, and he just cleaned up the best kid...

I think even he forgets this sometimes, we all know we do - Brad Miller can play good footy.

Besides being a forward in our team is not easy; the mids don't get it down there enough and don't deliver it well.

[Bobby McKenzie 2,385]

This is our prob at the moment, a player who gets it 25+ times but does not use it that well all the time is in our top 5, Ina few years time he will be between 8 - 15 in our B&F then we will be a contender.

Take this on board. Queens Birthday, Bruce 28 possessions @ 82% effectiveness, Swan 32 @ a very low 56%. This equates to Bruce 23 effective disposals, Swan 18. Food for thought I would think?

[45HG 1,559]

Rivers' efficiency this season has been 91%, talk about food for thought (in terms of disposal efficiency as a statistic).

I do agree though. Bruce has been the player to drive me mental more than most other over the past few years, but I have been very impressed with his season to date. Happy to call it as I see it.

[e25 5]

Take this on board. Queens Birthday, Bruce 28 possessions @ 82% effectiveness, Swan 32 @ a very low 56%. This equates to Bruce 23 effective disposals, Swan 18. Food for thought I would think?

Yeah, but then I watched the game again after I got home and saw that even Robert Walls (who often needs a nudge from blind freddie) noticed Cameron Bruce put in weak effort after weak effort, and he highlighted it on the replays.

He is a disgrace to the jumper when he plays like that.

I can handle the poor decision-making and the kicking to disadvantage, but those insipid efforts make me fume.

Maybe Richmond will take him..?

[rpfc 28,779]

Look, I wanted to get something for Green in last year's trade week. The club didn't. We move on and I am glad to have Green in the red and the blue.

Bruce is past the point where he could be traded. He is contracted for 2010 and it may be dificult for him to get another contract but he ain't going enywhere until then.

So I say, move on, stop the nonsense about 'retiring' Bruce and enjoy the 20km he runs every week. If Morton, Maric, Grimes, McLean, Jones, Blease, Strauss, and Bennell learn his gut running we will be thankful to Cameron Bruce for a decade to come.

(BTW, getting annoyed with his helicopter kicking and outside play is ridiculous as he has always been that way)

[beelzebub 23,383]

Been thinking of this all year.... that is, what happens years end and who becomes disposable and whom is able to be repatriated elsewhere etc. In thinkig about all this it came to me that the reality of what we will do is governed by what we CAN do. My thinking is along the lines of....the number of players we can expunge is directly proportional to those we can get. This equates to how many we can draft and or trade.

Given th elack of perceived depth in this years draft then we ought not be expecting terribly much beyond pick 34. So thats 4 pickups ( of varying ability ) . Now it is very likely that Junior will retire end of season. SO too Wheels. Robbo is an each way bet Id sugeest at present. If he sparks then he'll get another year.If he doesnt then its sayonara rockstar. Lets say s he does retire. Thats 3.

Its not that hard to probably add to that list with about 4-5 players who really ought to go...but who will replace them. We might get a trade.. but whom would really get a look. Jones might; possibly even Juice may get a squiz from a deluded ( ne desperate ) club. Some clus might put out feelers for the likes of Jared and Bate but dont hold your breath..

No..I thought the purge hasnt been throught enough in recent years and some lucky buggers will get to hang on by the scruff of their necks..simply as there are enough players to fill their spots. Not unless the club simply feels like a real lucky dip come seasons end. Still...could be worse...we could do nothing !!

[e25 5]

Been thinking of this all year.... that is, what happens years end and who becomes disposable and whom is able to be repatriated elsewhere etc. In thinkig about all this it came to me that the reality of what we will do is governed by what we CAN do. My thinking is along the lines of....the number of players we can expunge is directly proportional to those we can get. This equates to how many we can draft and or trade.

Given th elack of perceived depth in this years draft then we ought not be expecting terribly much beyond pick 34. So thats 4 pickups ( of varying ability ) . Now it is very likely that Junior will retire end of season. SO too Wheels. Robbo is an each way bet Id sugeest at present. If he sparks then he'll get another year.If he doesnt then its sayonara rockstar. Lets say s he does retire. Thats 3.

Its not that hard to probably add to that list with about 4-5 players who really ought to go...but who will replace them. We might get a trade.. but whom would really get a look. Jones might; possibly even Juice may get a squiz from a deluded ( ne desperate ) club. Some clus might put out feelers for the likes of Jared and Bate but dont hold your breath..

No..I thought the purge hasnt been throught enough in recent years and some lucky buggers will get to hang on by the scruff of their necks..simply as there are enough players to fill their spots. Not unless the club simply feels like a real lucky dip come seasons end. Still...could be worse...we could do nothing !!

I think it might also hinge on who is coming out of contract.

I'll put my hand up and say I have no idea whatsoever about who is and who isn't still contracted at the end of this season.

But if, for example, a Dunn or a Wheatley or a Bate is out of contract, what does the club do?

Surely the player would want more than a 1 year contract. If MFC doesn't see a future for that player beyond 2010, or sees an uncertain future, do they sign them up for the 2 years?

Do you risk offering a 1 year contract to a player they are not sure about and risk him getting pi$$ed off and doing a CJ?

Do you risk a 1 year contract leaving the player open to being poached by GC17 when you could later decide you need to keep them?

I think these intricacies will have a profound effect on who stays on the list & who doesn't.

AND i think we'd be likely to welcome 5 new players for 2010 (not including rookies).