The $alary Cap is dead

[Whispering_Jack 28,011]

Probably the worst kept secret in the annals of AFL history has been let out of the bag by the Herald Sun - Secrets of Chris Judd's pay packet revealed

"Cash payments from Visy to Judd - believed to total several hundred thousand dollars a year - come on top of his $1 million-a-season Carlton pay packet.

AFL chiefs have approved the arrangement."

The AFL's level playing field was pronounced dead when the AFL tinkered with the draw so that it favours clubs like Collingwood with its high drawing power. Now the salary cap which was supposed to help even out the competition is also dead.

What next?

The premiers get first selection in the national draft as a reward?

And what a farce this makes of Chri$ Judd's so-called selection and interview process. The insiders appear to have been right on the button with their claims that Judd had made his decision well before he went through that farcical process in late 2007 during which supporters of Collingwood, Essendon and Melbourne were led to believe that he might go to their club.

Oh, and the Visy ecology message has about as much credibility as its leading spokespeson - zilch!

[Guest JACKtheRIPPER]

so we pay 92.5 and they pay 110 percent, pretty even playing field. :angry:

[Gorgoroth 12,331]

Scumbag club with a scumbag x president who have both cheated the public on and off the field and we all knew Juda$ was going there for the money, and once again the AFL show their weakness to the "big" clubs the filth and the scumbags.

Did anyone really expect different?

[Redleg 37,883]

Probably the worst kept secret in the annals of AFL history has been let out of the bag by the Herald Sun - Secrets of Chris Judd's pay packet revealed

"Cash payments from Visy to Judd - believed to total several hundred thousand dollars a year - come on top of his $1 million-a-season Carlton pay packet.

AFL chiefs have approved the arrangement."

The AFL's level playing field was pronounced dead when the AFL tinkered with the draw so that it favours clubs like Collingwood with its high drawing power. Now the salary cap which was supposed to help even out the competition is also dead.

What next?

The premiers get first selection in the national draft as a reward?

And what a farce this makes of Chri$ Judd's so-called selection and interview process. The insiders appear to have been right on the button with their claims that Judd had made his decision well before he went through that farcical process in late 2007 during which supporters of Collingwood, Essendon and Melbourne were led to believe that he might go to their club.

Oh, and the Visy ecology message has about as much credibility as its leading spokespeson - zilch!

Carlton have rorted the system often in the past and are now playing the system to their advantage, just like everyone else does or should be doing.

I heard that Judd was offered $1.5m per year for 5 years and that and that alone is why he signed with them. Obviously part of that figure is made up by his employment with the ex President's company. It would appear if my info was correct that he is on about $half a million a year with Visy. I have since had further info that it is 6 years not 5, even better for Judd.

The problem the AFL has is how do they decide if Judd is worth the half million Visy is paying. In other words if he is worth that to the company and they have declared it how can you stop a player having outside/football work. This is a real grey area and is a real problem in stopping rorting.

Visy would say that Judd is the best player in the country and therefore his marketing value to them is easily worth the salary. Judd is entitled to have a job away from football and how the hell do you police it? Any club can do the same within limits.

The AFL has a real problem on its hands as this is a complete form of salary cap rorting. The question that has to be determined is would Visy pay Judd this figure if he was for example a magpie or a bomber.

Interesting to see the AFL response, if there is one.

PS. John Elliott would see nothing wrong with it.

[e25 5]

Carlton have rorted the system often in the past and are now playing the system to their advantage, just like everyone else does or should be doing.

I heard that Judd was offered $1.5m per year for 5 years and that and that alone is why he signed with them. Obviously part of that figure is made up by his employment with the ex President's company. It would appear if my info was correct that he is on about $half a million a year with Visy. I have since had further info that it is 6 years not 5, even better for Judd.

The problem the AFL has is how do they decide if Judd is worth the half million Visy is paying. In other words if he is worth that to the company and they have declared it how can you stop a player having outside/football work. This is a real grey area and is a real problem in stopping rorting.

Visy would say that Judd is the best player in the country and therefore his marketing value to them is easily worth the salary. Judd is entitled to have a job away from football and how the hell do you police it? Any club can do the same within limits.

The AFL has a real problem on its hands as this is a complete form of salary cap rorting. The question that has to be determined is would Visy pay Judd this figure if he was for example a magpie or a bomber.

Interesting to see the AFL response, if there is one.

PS. John Elliott would see nothing wrong with it.

Richard Pratt is no longer tied to Carlton in any official capacity, so how can they claim it is a salary cap rort?

The AFL, either knowingly or unknowingly, did Carlton a favour by making Pratt stand down from his position.

But wasn't that deal put together whilst Pratt was president? I'm not sure if this even makes any difference. Either way, you'd be clutching at straws.

[Spaghetti 264]

It makes no difference that Pratt is no longer president. So long as it was happening while he was.

Unfortunately, as serious as this is, I can't see where the afl would find legal grounds to do anything about it. Visy can hire who they want.

[Pates 9,537]

so we pay 92.5 and they pay 110 percent, pretty even playing field. :angry:

That pretty well summed up. It's always been uneven, we are getting a step closer to an English Premier League situation where there are 4 "big" clubs and the rest just make up the numbers.

[dreamin' man 0]

Is it my ineptitude or is the Herald-Sun's "have your say" function on the judd story not working? In meltdown or they fear the wrath of non-Carlton supporters?

I stand corrected.

[Jaded No More 58,472]

This just goes to show that as a club, we are not to blame for Judd's decision to go to Carlton.

He is a soulless [censored] (as is Warnock*), and Carlton have the means to cheat and bribe players away from other clubs (be it a rich club like Collingwood, or a poor club like ours).

*Suck on it hard Carlton, we have Spencer who cost us virtually nothing, while you are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for an overrated, underachieving, injured beanpole! :D

[e25 5]

This just goes to show that as a club, we are not to blame for Judd's decision to go to Carlton.

He is a soulless [censored] (as is Warnock*), and Carlton have the means to cheat and bribe players away from other clubs (be it a rich club like Collingwood, or a poor club like ours).

I wouldn't hate on these guys though. In their position I would do exactly the same -- choose to come home to melb & play for a club that not only is willing to pay me lots more money, but that also looks to be challenging for a top 4 position & playing finals in the very near future.

A club like Carlton is what we must aspire to be, albeit with more class & integrity. But above all successful.

[Gorgoroth 12,331]

I'd rather finish last every year than be one once like the scumbags that Carlton are.

I will hate Juda$, he had the opportunity to go home, play for the club he supported as a child and to make them great once more, he spurned that to be green, i mean to get a few more hundred green notes.

If I was related to him and followed Melbourne I would spit on him and disown him.

But that's just me

[beelzebub 22,243]

The true injustice is the stance of the AFL. what Carlton does ..Carlton does.. is it 'ight' ? Probably not but as ususal they find a way around it. Seems the AFL is more concerned with perculiar ajudications of time honoured playing methods rather than the Elephant in the corner called rorting !!

[deanox 8,688]

i think the simply option is that players cannot work for an extra curricular company while on an afl list.

there should be approved exemptions ie working for the media, completing an apprenticeship etc

perhaps the players images etc should be transfered to the clubs while they are on a list, and any requests for use of image, promotion etc must go through the afl which will determine a fair amount for the contract based on who the player is etc?

wont work but if someone wants to get real there are other options.

[JACKATTACK 17]

The true injustice is the stance of the AFL. what Carlton does ..Carlton does.. is it 'ight' ? Probably not but as ususal they find a way around it. Seems the AFL is more concerned with perculiar ajudications of time honoured playing methods rather than the Elephant in the corner called rorting !!

Well put.

It isn't in the AFL's interest to punish them, so why would they.

It really makes me wonder why I follow AFL sometimes.

[1858 219]

Well put.

It isn't in the AFL's interest to punish them, so why would they.

It really makes me wonder why I follow AFL sometimes.

You don't, you follow MELBOURNE - always remember that.

The AFL is just a two bit organisation lacking professionalism and integrity run by douches with vested interests in this, that or the other.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

i think the simply option is that players cannot work for an extra curricular company while on an afl list.

Breach of Trade Practices Act. Be careful.

there should be approved exemptions ie working for the media, completing an apprenticeship etc

Chris Judd is doing a media apprenticeship at Visy. B)

perhaps the players images etc should be transfered to the clubs while they are on a list, and any requests for use of image, promotion etc must go through the afl which will determine a fair amount for the contract based on who the player is etc?

wont work but if someone wants to get real there are other options.

Once again, Trade Practice Act would kill it. And I cant think of another sport where that is done.

However, the ability for Judd to earn $$$$$$$$ outside the salary cap with the AFL s knowledge at Vi$yton makes a mockery of the whole system. I am not sure why others have not exploited it before. Or are they and we dont know it yet???

[CarnTheDees 52]

Similar to Nathan Buckley doing work on the Footy Show?

[watts up? 0]

*insert cliche philosophy on karma here

[AXE07 0]

Carlton have been doing the same thing for years. Alex Jesaulenko is most likely still on the payroll at VISY!

[grazman 6,536]

In other words if he is worth that to the company and they have declared it how can you stop a player having outside/football work. This is a real grey area and is a real problem in stopping rorting.

Visy would say that Judd is the best player in the country and therefore his marketing value to them is easily worth the salary. Judd is entitled to have a job away from football and how the hell do you police it? Any club can do the same within limits.

I work in an organisation where as a condition of employment you must seek permission to have a second job. I know this isn't the norm in many organisations, but the principle is the same - the rule is designed to eliminate any potential and embarrassing conflicts of interest. The AFL should be the same. In the interests of a fair and balanced competition second jobs (and this is what they are) should be subject to approval by the AFL. It isn't a restraint of trade, because if the player wants to pursue an opportunity, they're free to give up their playing career.

[Sir Why You Little 34,645]

I wouldn't hate on these guys though. In their position I would do exactly the same -- choose to come home to melb & play for a club that not only is willing to pay me lots more money, but that also looks to be challenging for a top 4 position & playing finals in the very near future.

A club like Carlton is what we must aspire to be, albeit with more class & integrity. But above all successful.

You bet I Hate Judd for the stance he Took. A Melbourne Supporter all his life Before the Draft, Had a real opportunity to help the MFC Fill the Grandstands of the MCG & climb back to our rightful position. Fear not the Extra $$$$ would have Rolled in. But no He chose to Go to the Perrennial Cheats. So He will be forever LOATHED. Carlton haven't made the Top 4 Yet.

[AzzKikA 2,371]

I bet all of you Chri$ Judd$ yearly salery that we will soon see a commercial with him in it talking about how Visy uses this much recycled materials in their paper and so on...MARK MY WORKDS.

[Redleg 37,883]

Carlton have been doing the same thing for years. Alex Jesaulenko is most likely still on the payroll at VISY!

He may still be. He was employed by Visy a short time ago.

[Redleg 37,883]

Richard Pratt is no longer tied to Carlton in any official capacity, so how can they claim it is a salary cap rort?

The AFL, either knowingly or unknowingly, did Carlton a favour by making Pratt stand down from his position.

But wasn't that deal put together whilst Pratt was president? I'm not sure if this even makes any difference. Either way, you'd be clutching at straws.

I am not coming to any conclusion on salary cap breaches that is for the "totally fair" AFl to decide.

Whether Pratt is President or not is irrelevant. It is an offence for a supporter of a club to employ and pay a player over the odds if that is not included in the salary cap.

The real question the AFL must decide as I said earlier is to determine if he is being paid over the odds, which means it is a payment for playing footy at Carlton and should be in the salary cap.

Many players work for friendly employers to a club, but the salary must be realistic in the market place.

[e25 5]

I am not coming to any conclusion on salary cap breaches that is for the "totally fair" AFl to decide.

Whether Pratt is President or not is irrelevant. It is an offence for a supporter of a club to employ and pay a player over the odds if that is not included in the salary cap.

The real question the AFL must decide as I said earlier is to determine if he is being paid over the odds, which means it is a payment for playing footy at Carlton and should be in the salary cap.

Many players work for friendly employers to a club, but the salary must be realistic in the market place.

Being paid 'over the odds'? There is no way the AFL could or will make that sort of judgement call.

To apply penalties for something as subjective as that would only bring about legal action and the AFL would lose.

There is no way you can enforce this sort of thing.

Ok, a hypothetical: What if I am NOT a demons supporter, couldn't give a stuff about footy, but I decide to pay Colin Sylvia $800K per year to star in an ad campaign for my paperclip company (because somehow i'm stupid enough to think he is worth it)?

Would you then apply penalties to MFC & sylvia? Herein lies the problem.

Its obvious what is going on but you'll never prove it and action will/can never be taken.

... especially when the AFL wants to see Carlton succeed.