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Well the boys flew in last night and I just had a quick chat with Nate Jones, who is just out on Langley Park having a kick with Gawny, Watts & Howe. You can see the ground from our building and I grabbed an MFC flag I had and they signed it for my young lad, hopefully that will be another incentive to keep him on board for a few years along with a solid effort on Saturday night

Sydney, Fremantle and us are the 3 teams in the negative. What do they have in common? Game plans with links to Paul Roos. It's working for the other 2 clubs. It doesn't matter if we handball backwards or forward when we're not hitting targets.

Of course it's not ideal, but what options do we have RPFC. To break this virus and culture that is so evident at the MFC, we will have to do things like this. I think Trengove and Toumpas won't be used as bait because they haven't been given enough opportunity and they're both smart footballers with the right mindset and they're skillful. Watts and Grimes on the other hand would be one's I'd be happy to offer up to get an early second round pick for. We've see how many good players can be picked up later in the draft, brought to a club and developed properly. It's the only way we're going to get out of this mess. The only way. We need to rebuild properly. Meaning drafting the right kids with the right skill sets and minds, develop them properly and build a culture and environment around a core group of mature players who understand what it takes to train and play at the level. Supporters and posters are scared because we've tried to do those things in the past but it hasn't worked but it's bleeding obvious that we didn't have the right coaches, recruiting staff or senior players in place to make it a success. We all have to trust that we've got the best people in place now to oversee and make these decisions. I'm absolutely at the stage where I'm happy to see another rebuild if done properly. I'll welcome Roos trading most of our players out if he believes they can't contribute to the change we need. We all need to completely let go of the care for individuals at the club. No matter how much of a 'good honest bloke' they may be. This is about the survival of the MFC.

Indeed, and cheering is something children do, too. The proper behaviour for supporters is to sit quietly through wins and losses, meditating upon the evanescence of the universe within which "winning" and "losing" are mere illusions. And we could gently appreciate the way Jack Watts has replaced the tackle with the non-violent but intrusive cuddle.

The argument that we don't 'deserve' a PP has no merit. None. Sure, Hawthorn/Geelong etc. haven't had a top-5 pick in ages, whilst we've had a fair few. But that's because they've been winning premierships whilst we've been winning nothing. Sure, GWS managed to fight through adversity to pull off a great win, whilst we hoisted the flag. The very fact that this can happen, that our players are incapable of playing 22 games in a row without turning in a performance that reeks of a lack of care, indicated exactly how far behind we are and that we need help to level out. Sure, we've had high draft picks before. But how did we get those picks? From finishing at the bottom of the ladder. And that PP we already got? From finishing with 4 wins in back-to-back seasons. Sure, we haven't helped ourselves of late. Again, that's the point. We have continued to wallow for 8 years. Sure, we may have some potential stars on our list. But we don't know yet. That's why they're 'potential'. They mightn't come good. And we can only focus on the 'potential' in our list because there's no 'actual' in it. Now, all that granted, I don't believe for one second that a PP changes everything. It doesn't. We need to continue to fundamentally change our culture, our ethic, and our list, and one PP does not do that. But it helps. That's the point. It helps.

Thought I'd leave it a few days before I posted anything just to make sure I didn't say anything in the heat of the moment given how upset I was Sunday arvo... Since then though have had to read two articles from two players saying they didn't like getting booed to much. Well to those two players I say this - At least those who hang around to boo still cared enough to be there. My family in Victoria went and left at 3/4 time - something that has never happened no matter what. Im in Perth and I wont be bothering to go this week. That, Jones and McDonald is worse than being booed. This team has finally managed to get 3 generations of one family to just stop caring. You want us to turn up and stick around to the end then YOU BASTEDS TURN UP AND STICK AROUND TO THE END.

I'm going, but not such a big deal as my trip only involves a 40 minute ride in the car. I too am worried about the possibility of a massive loss and the effect it will have on my 6 year old son who will be going to his first ever H&A match. I've managed to convert him to a fully fledged Dees supporter this year, despite him starting the year as a Hawthorn fan and also my pesky dad trying at every opportunity to convert him into a Weagle. But am afraid it might all unravel for me on Saturday if they put up a showing like last weekend. Also worried about the parochial Eagle crowd. I've been to plenty of freo and eagles games over the years and am never disappointed by their lack of respect for fans of the opposition. Worried that it might make the little fella ashamed to be a dees supporter. Oh well, I suppose we'll just have to see what happens. I'm just hanging on to a glimmer of hope that they might knock off the Eagles and spoil Coxys farewell just like we did to Guy McKenna in 2000 (I was there and boy was that sweet). Mind you we're not tilting at a flag like we were that year so it will be a miracle if we can get the win. Here's hoping, carn the dees

Thanks for all the reply's. Interesting views that I thought worthy of debate. For the record I don't believe that these player have been offered as trade bate. 1stly its too early, 2ndly this would have the danger of destroying (again) the soul of the club. However, I do believe there is probably some truth to the rumour in that I believe Roos is looking to recruit 5 mature players whilst securing as many top 20 picks as possible................ this is what any intelligent coach in his position would do. I believe the reporter has taken a statistical guess on what Roos is aiming to do and then made up who was to be offered to make that happen. In other words I believe its a made up, beat up story. In fact the more I think about it the more I am sure that there is no story here, I intend to get back to you all after I have heard word from inside the club.

What exactly does supporter backlash at MFC look like? I'd suggest Nath Jones is untradeable. Everyone else is surely on the table. All we know at the moment is Roos' history at Sydney, where they have built a super list on the back off - Not being overly concerned about high draft picks - Trading both for big trades and little fish trades - Trading out players who aren't performing - take former first round draft picks Veszpremi, Johnstone, Lamb (even if he went PSD to GWS) as an example In fact Sydney may well have found the market for trading out guys who aren't performing but have value for guys who can perform or want to perform but don't have value if that makes any sense. They take the guys like McGlynn, Kennedy, Mattner, Shaw, Derickx, Laidler who for whatever reasons can't find games at their original clubs but have the right attitude and trade out guys who have reputation and value based on draft pick status but aren't living up to it. That said it's the culture of recruiting and developing that makes them good not just magical deals.

I would also like to see Trenners and Toump play a full season, injury free, under Roos, before making any decision on them.

No, this is about the how the MFC can thrive. And Roos would disagree with you about the need to care for the individuals at the club. We need to make passionless decisions based on what is best for the club - weighing up a myriad of factors. You have touched on some yourself - but nothing but hard work, enterprising recruitment, excellent drafting, and keeping the faith in a few players is going to keep us moving in the direction we have since last year. Which, as dismayed as I was about last week, is upward. Trading out players just to trade them out is not what will build this list. That isn't to say that I wouldn't trade anyone (Jones, Viney, Tyson and Hogan aside) that wouldn't improve the side...

I don't like the idea of booing your own team. Remember, you're booing the guys who gave their guts(eg N Jones), as well as the ones you thought didn't try. You're booing the jumper and the club in general. Do booers really think the players will try harder next week because they boo them as they come off the field? I reckon it's best just to shut up. Absolute silence as they leave the field is enough.

Il get angry, frustrated, swear and continue to support. One thing il never do is boo my team off. I dont have that in me. I can really understand why most supporters would though. That performance was insipid and disgraceful.

IMO the deal has been done and he is merely going through the motions and trying to not get injured.

It was reported on 3AW last night that Roos had a plan for a complete rebuild of the MFC list post season. It was reported that Roos is looking for 5 picks in the top 20 in this years draft and is also looking to bring in 5 mature players. We are likely to get: pick 2, pick 3 (Frawley), a good possibly (that's the clubs opinion after initial discussions with AFL) a PP at either 1, 4 or 20. We will also have 2nd Round pick at ~20. This means we will need to trade for at least 1 probably 2 or 3 picks in the top 20 considering at least one of these picks will be traded for a mature age player. Apparently the MFC is offering as trade bate the following players: Watts Grimes Trengrove Toumpas Apparently Roos is looking to trade out at least 2 of these 4 depending on what is offered. The mature age players will come from a combination of Free Agency, Trades and delisting's (aka Cross). What are supporters views on this? Personally I have full faith in Roos, you have to give away talent to get talent, clearly he is trying to break the poor culture by bringing in new core players. *** Please note this is not from my contacts inside the club, I have no idea if true. This comes from Gerard Healy and others on 3AW last night. However, they were claiming it as a scoop.

I can see it now. In 3 or 4 years time we're going to be charged with tanking over the past few weeks.

He's the cleaning lady.

am I the son of Saty? Who the [censored] is Saty?

Derwayne: "So they're planning not to win another game then?" What a monumental d-head that bloke is.

Absolutely. Hard. Quick. A good left foot usually. One of few goal kickers. He won't be going anywhere.

They obviously had the submission prepared and were waiting for the right moment to deliver it.

Do you have any direct quotes, Grint? Was the tone of what they were saying something like "I can't believe our own supporters booed us", or was it more like "I'm so embarrassed that the calibre of our play was so sickeningly rancid that booing was the appropriate response from a group of supporters who for some reason stuck around to watch us defile the Melbourne guernsey during a precious Sunday afternoon"?

Or even the Australian attempt at a player.

Another with a compromised pre-season. That he even made it back to senior's level this year is an achievement.

People who say booing is a disgrace get right up my goat's nose. It's every fan's sacred right to boo.

Be sure to wear some flowers in your hair

that's what you get sharing training facilities with an nrl team

Not quite sure if it's damning or a hint into how our players are coached to play. Paul Roos and his assistants at the time (Longmire and Ross Lyon) both use the handball backwards as the path forward by foot. All three clubs have negative metres for handballing, but 2 of those clubs are in the top 4. Yeah we are handballing a lot, but I suspect it's more 'what do we do next' thats the problem, where I think Sydney and Freo have that part worked out better than us.

Roos IS moneyball. He understands. Its a team thing. Would be nice to have a TEAM.

I could never understand how that was not Draft tampering which is against the rules.

Yes, theres a game of 'subltety ' afoot for sure. Statements about tanking, statements about team situation , statements about "appropriateness" . Hints at what the club might do , under specific conditions" what we might the shopping for or who we might be 'shopping" . All about getting to the head of the queue. Bit like leaking the Budget....testing waters etc.

I would prefer you get in touch with your sources at the club before you give credence to 3AW. Trading assets at their lowest value is not ideal... Watts, Trengove (especially), Grimes and Toumpas would have more value on the list than on the market - whatever low opinion posters may have of them on the list.

Fair enough I owe you another dim sim for your suffering. Wongs after the season ends for us in 10 days. Make that a banana fritter, it has been pretty bad being an MFC fan.

I posted this on another thread but thought it might be better on here. I understand EVERYTHING is our fault according to some. Hogan's back injury missing his whole first year is our fault. Clark's foot injury and depression likewise. Jurrah's train wreck likewise. Trengrove's broken foot likewise. Number 9 of GWS leaving us, for the most ridiculous contract ever and paid by the AFL, all under their new rule likewise. Clint Bartram's career ending knee injury likewise. Toumpas' hip injury and appendicitis likewise. I hesitate to mention the tragic death of promising and popular player Troy Broadbridge likewise. Rivers, Moloney, Sylvia and probably Frawley leaving under a new AFL rule likewise. Consecutive drafts being decimated, when we needed to rebuild, by giving all good players to expansion sides likewise. Having the 2 PP's we have been given in poor drafts likewise. Not tanking in the years where Reiwoldt and Kosi, Buddy and Roughy, Thomas and Pendles were available likewise. Not being allowed to have academies likewise. Not getting equal draws with the big clubs likewise. Not having salary cap allowances that would let you bid for Buddy and Tippett likewise. Not having a Judd/Visy rule allowed to us likewise. I could go on forever. But yes IT IS ALL OUR FAULT, TOTALLY, circumstances and luck have nothing to do with it. PS. Don't give us a PP. In fact give us pick 100 for Chip leaving and take away all our other picks because the above might reoccur

i told you.....don't call me shirley

It has occurred to me that the AFL could have alternative strategies for dealing with the MFC. It could provide draft aid with an extra pick anywhere from 1 to early second round or several second rounders. Going by Mark Evans latest thought bubble that seems now unlikely to happen. The alternative strategy, Plan B for 2015 maybe to use the FIXture to hide us away from the spotlight like some ugly, deformed child of the competition. You know the drill zero night matches, multiple Sunday twilights, play as many bottom 8 clubs as possible and shunt us interstate as often as possible. Oh hold on that was this year's draw! Maybe the AFL has already implemented plan B. If it really was an equal draw and we were playing absolute rubbish games against the top teams regularly in prime time I think the AFL might be thinking harder on how to help our on field performance.

nothing personal about maia at least he stuck it out for two years but only the mfc would pick the only skinny maori in kiwiland from a non-contact sport

We've had more failures with Australians then the Irish. I'm just playing the odds

doing a bloody good job of that too

devastated now will we qualify for a pp?

Shiel, proven commodity. Petracca could be the second coming of Sylvia.

Id like to keep Kent...kids needs a bit of maturing but he has a go. Hes not a crab like most of the others

Mate, Red, Ive got over really worrying too much , or placing too much emphasis on things I CANT CHANGE. We finish last, 17th..dont care. We get X or Y for him or the other. We get a PP or not. Theres an old Yiddish maxim ..along the line, It isnt how you make it, its how you spend it. In that vein we've been woeful in the most part. Instead of worrying over this pp or that, this compo or that . I just want to see the club refocus on footballers and not elite-potentials. We can get them no matter what we have if we are both bodacious in our shopping as well as , in that great footy -ism, lower our eyes and get about building an OK team before we try to steal the cream. Yeah, it'll be nice to have lots of early picks but I cant see the current landscape coughing that. I cant change it, im not worrying, and therefore I have no care.. I hear a lot of people saying they want to get the club on firmer ground and leave better than they came ...blah blah blah...and they wont commit to any meaningful time period. The AFL has 'rules' many of which are made of rubber and appear or not under stealth according to political whim. After following the Dees for 50 odd years why should I care too much. We'll get what we're given and hopefully we dont fukk it up again. Dont expect me to care much more.

Form doenst concern me, he is playing like a bloke who is leaving, I don't think it will effect his worth, the deal is most likely done by now

small correction et. Jack Watts player #4

I stayed to the bitter end heard the boos. I just couldnt stop laughingduring the game at the antics on the field ,stopped me from getting angry or crying with pity

If you look at our list and go through it with a fine tooth comb there is not many left at season end LOL.

“Hopefully we make a response against West Coast – we have to for the supporters, and we were all very, very disappointed and embarrassed in the way the game went out. http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2014-08-20/home-truths-aired-at-review-gawn McDonald said the Demons “deserved to be booed” by their own supporters and added that “if we keep playing like that, we’ll get booed again and again”. http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2014-08-18/lack-of-fight-hurt-mcdonald “To walk off the ground with the reception we’ve got, the boys are pretty shattered and pretty disappointed and that’s the main thing that hit home – letting a lot of our supporters down.” http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2014-08-18/were-yet-to-find-answers-jones I'm not sticking up for the players at all, but that's a rubbish post not based in reality.

I'd give Douoas another year to prove himself.