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There are a number of aspects of this story that are raising red flags in terms of the question of recruiting Adam Treloar - the financial aspect, his physical and mental wellbeing, his family situation and the atmosphere of intrigue surrounding the whole story which is sending out the message that there’s a lot more to this that meets the eye. So much about this just doesn’t add up and any club that’s not fully informed should steer clear. On top of all that, the situation unfolding at Collingwood with Treloar is turning into an unmitigated disaster for that club. No spin can hide the fact that the Pies have abandoned their war cry of “side by side we stick together” and they have to be concerned about their future, let alone about the precarious position they’ve placed their player in. And where is the AFLPA in all of this?

Yea mate he’s just sitting back with his feet up on the desk whistling Dixie, throwing paper airplanes into the rubbish bin across the office.

He could also ruin us. Media saying he has a 5 year contract starting at $900k per year the first couple and the last few at “well over” a $1m a year. He apparently sacrificed salary on his previous contract, to get make up in this contract. Now Pies have changed their mind and don’t want to honour it. This is not only a culture killer for the Pies, but possibly also at any new club he goes to. This is getting very hard and I would walk away from any involvement. We have enough problems of our own. This is without even considering other issues Adam has in his life and even in his game. I wish him the best, most likely staying at the Pies. Whatever happens, he will get all his money and so he should. Now onto Phillips or whoever else we are looking at, without excess baggage.

If he vame out and said "We have identified someone with outside speed as being the missing piece to our puzzle. We missed Smith so we are desperate to target someone else", Demonland would be screaming that Mahoney is too transparent, that we'd lost our bargaining power and that he was a terrible negotiator.

4 players delisted. 6-8 more possible trades or delisted. That is 10-12 off the list. Brown in. That is 9-11 spots. AFL reduce lists by 2, that is 7-9 spots. We are drafting 7-9 players? No we are not. We will pick up a few more players in the next 10 days. We won’t go to the draft with more than 4-5 selections.

Doesn't quite add up to me to be honest. Evidence to Support Simon Goodwin being a good coach, but the need for a second off field overhaul in 2 years due to the team underperforming and evidence of poor standards both in game and preparation, and an inconsistent team. I'm a bit uneasy by these changes to be totally honest. i really though JM should have been removed totally to be honest. i don't think moving on 3-4 fringe assistant coaches and shuffling the deck chairs a little bit is a strong enough response given the failure of 2020. I also find it interesting that Pert identified some concerns with the game plan, another thing i would have thought Simon Goodwin was directly responsible for.

We have already secured a 60 goal a year forward on the cheap and the Trade Period STARTS tomorrow, where we have a good record in recent years.

Narkle is a mid who rests forward, but hasn't been able to get on the park enough to play decent minutes in his preferred position yet. He's actually quite good in the guts, moves well through traffic and gets his hands free when tackled etc. He'd be a good addition to our midfield rotation as he's got good kicking skills and good agility, so adds a point of difference. Think a poor mans Shai Bolton. I'd take him on the cheap for sure to balance our midfield out more.

Hold tight mate, there will be more coaches coming in from what I've heard. This isn't the final setup.

Can you let those not thinking logically have their rant before you bring such a considered approach to the thread

No H reported at 2 years at $900k and last 3 at “well over “ a $1m in each year. That could be at around $1.2m a year x 3. That is a nightmare situation. Add those figures to health issues, dodgy hammies, a separation for a year from wife and child and poor disposal as a player and you are looking at destroying us and our culture. Too big a risk, unless our commitment capped at say $400-$500 k a year, a trade of above pick 50 and a commitment from God that he plays for 5 years at a reasonable standard. Otherwise move on and look at less disruptive and risky scenarios and players. Imagine how our players would feel if he lost form and was gifted games because of the contract price being justified and generally just playing with an outside mid earning over a $1m a year, irrespective of who was paying him. This deal could kill a club and is doing that right now to his present club. Players upset. Fans upset. Treloar upset. I am over it. Try harder for Clark or Phillips or whoever.

Hey, I'll have you know that two of my brothers are North Melbourne fans. I'll also have you know that your assessment is spot on in their case.

Massive Clarry fan, and agree he's a once in a generation player, but him being a good player doesn't preclude him from having some of the attitude problems that are symptomatic of the club as a whole. He has a ton of work to do in that area if he truly wants team success. I don't think it's correct to put it all on the club, Clarry has some hard decisions to make about himself as well.

Imagine thinking you're a top 4 side, which you need to be to win a flag, with Oskar Baker on a wing. It beggars belief.

Going back through the archives, some decient players have worn in the moden era Jetta, Dyson, Brett Lovett...but only for a season or so. Playing a bit on the number, some may say that 50 would be appropriate, because Brown is twice the player of T Mac... but I wouldn't be one of them. I do really value the contribution that T Mac has made over the journey. He played some pretty solid footy as a backman in a time when we were getting smashed every week, could have sought greener pastures but didn't. Really enjoyed his good work as a forward whilst it lasted. I wish him well where ever he ends up and do hope he has some good years of footy in him, just not against us!

I actually think this is the perfect result between the two GMs of Football. It works to Richo's strengths in player development and coaching. And Mahoney's strengths in list management and commercial administration. Really like that Josh has been given a massive job of being part of the new home base development team. He smashes this out of the park and it will be a great feather in his cap. I think the way the message is delivered is both relatively clear, respectful and classy. My only hesitation is over Stafford as the forward coach. And will Richo take development? This was unclear to me. Perhaps, this will fall under the domain of the Casey coach? We also have to remember that all the clubs will be similarly downsized. There'll certainly be more responsibility across all lines though, whether it be GM, backline coach or forward coach. Given the playing field should be relatively levelled by league wide austerity measures, I think this added responsibility could suit us nicely.

Phillips would be a steal. He’s walking into our best 22 in a position that we need to fill ASAP. Elite runner. Probably offer them the pick we get from the Giants for trading Preuss. It’s so obvious. Josh Mahoney. Get off your @$)&)(&

I’m not so sure about the Josh Kelly deal Salem is a very good footballer & much loved by the players & Tyson was a consistent performer for a 100 games when we were rubbish For all the hype Kelly is a bit of a disappointment for mine

While it is tempting to think we can use lowly picks in (for Preuss, OMac, ANB, TMac if they all happen) to go up the draft order; it is easier said than done this year. There is a clear top 5/6 draftees (recruiters believe there is now a clear group of five players – Logan McDonald, Riley Thilthorpe, Elijah Hollands, Denver Grainger-Barras and Will Phillips draft-s-fantastic-five-shaping-trade-calls) who are unattached to any club. So clubs with those top 5/6 picks are very reluctant to let them go. After that picks are a lottery and picks slide dramatically due to all the compromised picks. Note: Jamarra Ugle-Hagan tipped to go #1 is tied to bulldgos. tbh I think there is more chance of us re-contracting Bedord, Jordan and Lockhart as there is using trade in picks to get new players. So I expect the trade period to be around the fringes than 'big' or 'medium' fish. And we may not have many list spots available come the end of trade period. So the club could be keeping its powder dry until draft night and if someone they like slides make draft night pick swaps to get him.

My new ink

I'm tending to accept him at face value. In part because he usually plays with a straight bat and in part all the recent re-signings of players (that many on here would happily delist) suggests not many existing players will be exited, unless it is contracted players ala Preuss, TMac. Even then that only leaves a few list spots to add draftees or promote rookies eg Lockhart.

No, you’re wrong. There was no talk. SOS thought of a possible trade that could include Gus. He stated that he had no knowledge of North being interested in Gus, it was just his opinion. This is how rumours start.

That may be so but whatever they are they won't overcome two fundamental issues in my eyes. 1) Richardson has little success in his background to qualify him for the job he has been given. 2) Stafford had goal kicking coaching in his role this year so doesn't fill me with confidence as fwd coach. Are they the best available for respective roles? And I've never been sold on Chaplin. Sure our defence has improved in 2021 but a fair bit of that is on the back of Steven May's outstanding year. So overall, imv we haven't substantially improved the support around Goodwin which primarily are the GM and Goodwin's 3 direct line coaches (except Yze). Those 5 will determine game plan, tactics, team selection etc. So the nucleus is set. Other additions will be peripheral to the main game.

Like you I've spent a lot of my working life advising entities on organisation structures, role definition, position descriptions etc. I'm ok with the overall structure. Not entirely sure about the role definitions of the two GM's. It is the incumbents I have a problem with. It looks to me the approach was 'we have people with contracts on the payroll and we need to find jobs for them'. Here I'm thinking: Richardson, Stafford and maybe Mahoney. I find it hard to believe that at a time when dozens of good assistant coaches and football managers are available that we didn't use the opportunity to get the best there is. Particularly as the AFL is allowing clubs the 'soft cap' space to cancel contracts this year. We had the opportunity to undo last year's coaching related recruiting mistakes and we didn't take it. We have shuffled the deckchairs instead. I have oft said I feel our coaching panel is bottom 4. Yze will go some way to improving that. But I am disappointed that we haven't done enough to substantially improve the support around Goodwin. Either his assistant coaches or his GM Football.

If the Howe experience is anything to go by that means he'll be playing full forward by round 4.

Was told yesterday that we are seriously looking at Philips. Originally it was Polec, but now switched

There is absolutely no chance we'd move on as many players as we have, and offer up as many mature players as we have, if we didn't have some things in the works.

Suggest there is two things always in play: strategic list improvement and opportunistic list improvement. Brown was opportunistic and we swooped, Smith was strategic, but we got beaten. Would think we are looking for a small forward and outside midfielder/winger as strategic needs, but we will only take them if they improve our list (compared to what we have) and don’t destroy the salary cap. If they think Oscar will be better than Phillips at 1/2 the price, then we don't need to act. If someone is available cheap, then we have a go like we did with Brown. I like the idea of moving up if we can, but am more and more happy with the Kozzie pick last year. Mahoney may simply be waiting for opportunities to present themselves (even a Treloar) rather than trying to pick off a player (like the druggies are with Dunkley).

This isn't about my preferences. This is about what I think the MFC may try. For the last few years we have won well at narrower grounds and struggled at the wider MCG. They brought Tomlinson in thinking he could cover that wing, like he had played at GWS since 2017. We didnt play at the wide MCG this year and he was ineffectual as a wing on shorter, narrower grounds. He moved to the backline wuth OMac struggling. We are moving OMac on but have re-signed Hore, Petty and Smith who will all compete with Tomlinson for the 3rd tall defender role. We have coaching staff on record saying we can use his outside run in 2021. In 2021 we expect to be back at the MCG. My reading between the lines is that we see Tomlinson potentially filling that role.

Mahoney just playing the game?

Okay, I'm going try and analyze everything Mahoney mentioned. And note, none of this is based on inside information, but rather what has been said here, on social media and by journalists. Anyway, we targeted Isaac Smith as a free agent and Ben Brown (not a heavy price). We've managed to land Brown, but we failed in securing Smith. This is where my analysis of the plan comes in. We want to move higher up the draft, this was/is hinging on only having to give up a small price for Brown and nothing for Smith. Because we failed in securing Smith, our chances of moving up in the draft are diminished if we have to give picks up for a player on the wing. We may have decided it was easier to get an early pick without giving up much, than use those picks on a player for the wing and have to use next years picks (which is considered a stronger draft than this one) on moving up in the draft this year. It's just my thoughts, and I don't particularity agree with this approach if it is accurate, but I would prefer to get a winger than move up in the draft this year when we don't know how Covid has affected the talent pool.

I’m slightly worried North will be hard to deal with. Inexperienced manager whose main qualification is “ex-footy player” in Brady Rawlings at the helm, currently under the influence of another meathead ex-footballer turned board member in Glenn Archer, during a time when they’re a complete shambles as an organisation. It has Peter Bellend written all over it. I’m glad we’ve still got Mahoney at the helm. At least I can be sure our party will negotiate in good faith.

I don't buy any of it. They're not 'specifically' going after a winger, but a winger is among our wants, I would say....

I'd argue that one of our biggest problems is spread from the midfield. Opposition clubs know that if they match us in the contest they can get us on the outside. Guess what Treloar excels at ?

Like Brendan Gale?

If we want him we'll need to clear midfield cap space - that means Brayshaw or maybe Harmes traded.

It will never get to a legal situation as the AFL and Players Association will solve it. Whatever happens here, Treloar will get paid in full.

Still no game plan/strategy/ opposition analysis coach. Concerning. Jennings was never replaced and I think this is one of our biggest weaknesses. Goodwin is in last chance saloon in 2021.

I think this is spot on and my initial reaction as well. A review that leaves all the same senior people in place (albeit in different roles) isn’t much of a review imo.

Hearing exactly the same.

It is up to Clarry and players to lift their performance. No question our biggest issue is our skill execution, starting with the fundamental skill kicking. If we can't improve our teams kicking we will struggle to successfully implement any game plan.

Agree. I recall it was suggested that there was a considerable undercurrent of disapoinment with Mahoney missing out on the CEO's role when Pert was appointed, which to me suggests that he'd be more than happy taking on a role with more of a commercial focus that his new one should provide. Richardson is much better suited to the intensive day to day footy focus. Whatever the formal roles might fall, I'm sure there will also be plenty of room for each of the assistants and even guys around the traps with strong leadership and football nous to also play a mentoring role in player development amongst the squad. I even feel like their could be a role for our current CEO in this capacity - was a pretty decient player in his day. I do actually like the cut in football department spending. It's more back to basics, which is what footy clubs should be about. When AFL finances recover somewhat I'd hope there could be a resistance to upping spending at the elite level, in order to channel those finds into grass roots footy, which could take a huge hit from COVID.

I will add Keeping Darren Burgess on board is a huge Bonus. we have done ok. Our Forward Coach suprises me, but let’s hope he does.

I've always thought the best pressure a forward could apply is to kick goals. Geelong locked the ball in their forward half in the 2nd Q of the GF but didn't exert enough scoreboard pressure. At the end of the day the team that kicks the bigger score wins the game. Sometimes too much emphasis is placed on the minutiae...

If they would pick him it would help