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Wise, This is absolutely on May. The fact he went publicly and shamed GC training standards is just [censored] poor and now has egg on his face. He was a leader there, what did he actually do himself to change those standards? He is 27 and mature enough to know he should have gotten himself at the best nick he could possibly be. After he did his medical the club would have given him an off season program to abide by and its clear that he didn't follow this. Sorry but this is absolutely on him. Didn't do himself any favour by knocking out some bloke in a practice match either. We honestly make so much excuses for some of these blokes

A month ago everyone was lauding the fact we traded him due to his off field issues. Now he plays one good game, May is injured and we are going bad and it’s the worst trade in history. Talk about jumping at shadows.

Re Jetta - it happened when a saints player dived across his knee. Was a missed free kick and I thought the whole point of bringing in the rule to begin with.

Hard to put any faith in a coach who plays his two slowest and oldest players on the wings of the MCG against any team, let alone and quick one. What possible logic is behind this coaching move?

We could almost have WERRIDEE making a 'BEST 22 PLAYERS WHO ARE INJURED' list right now.

Jetta kept playing didnt he? tough lil solider.

You're doing it again, dazzle. You were completely in favour of bringing May to the club. You also posted a link to an article about May's character and what a great person he is. You can express disappointment/frustration at the way May showed up at the club, or the way the club dealt with his fitness since then, but don't make it sound like the deal was a shocker from the get go because it wasn't, and you certainly didn't think so at the time.

Get well soon, Nev. We'll miss you. On the flip side, I'm excited to see how this pans out for some players. Are we about to find out if Josh Wagner has any chance of making it as an AFL player? Can he step into that role and really give us something? Do we give Lockhart a run down there instead? He is a little smaller, but he's a tough bugger who is a decent user of the footy and you'll know that he'll have a dip all day. What I'm getting at is that, with the probability of a flag this season pretty damn low, it's time to see if a few fringe players can actually make it. I firmly believe that we have plenty of talent on the list that is capable of getting us to the holy grail, but we need foot soldiers as well, and we are about to find out if we have any of those on the list who can step into a role when needed.

This thread is about to ignite. Jetta hurt himself against the Saints? Most saw him struggling prior.

JUST watched On The Couch and Roosy and Lyon reiterated a little of the above, but also said tht we commit to the footy too much. As in, we have too many players going to the ball carrier, which allows sides to get free numbers on the outside. It’s pretty accurate. That, coupled with a lack of leg speed and poor i50s makes us the worst side in the comp right now.

Not blaming anyone in particular, but I find too many posts turn personal. It's spoiling it for those of us who just want to understand the game and share our thoughts. Please!

Hard to blame Misson for Jetta's injury and May's lack of condition. Misson is the same bloke that in 2005 saw the Swans unchanged for about 10 weeks on their way to a flag they probably shouldn't have won. His record in sports science and rehab and preparation speaks for itself. He has the absolute confidence of Roos. May, as a highly paid, professional athlete has a responsibility to present in decent condition. His lack of discipline clearly extends beyond his on field brain farts. Jetta is just bad luck. It's a collision sport and [censored] happens. Lever the same. If his knee recovers he will prove to be worth every bit the two first round picks we paid for him.

On a separate but connected issue, Tom macDonald is obviously injured. He is playing. I wonder if he is happy to be playing? As said earlier there is something crook in Tallarook that we arent being told about.

I don't think the truth matters anymore. I think the concept that Goodwin never reviewed the prelim is just going to become Demonland folklore, no matter what happens from here.

The most damning thing about Saturday was that we had a 9 day break vs their 6 day break. They ran us off our feet. If ever there was an indictment on our fitness, gameplan, structure and coaching, then that's it. I believe that's what we call, "Doing a Melbourne". Which Richmond spud will burn us this week?

OUT- meaningless post-game statements from the coach, such as: "we're easy to play against" (why is that- bad plan perhaps?) "we're still getting some supply but we're getting beaten in transition" (sound like middle management speak to me) "there is a lot of things going wrong in our game at the moment" (not S*#t Sherlock) "it's really challenging to play the way we want to play" (it looks good at training without any opposition) "were breaking down in a few too many areas" (So....is there a fix in sight?) "we need to connect better with the ball" (isn't this a fundamental skill for a team playing football?) "Our boys are disappointed, our club is disappointed and our fans are disappointed" (another statement stating the bloody obvious) IN - post-game statements from the coach that show insight and honesty: "the plan we devised preseason is being exploited by the competition and we are developing a new plan - fast" "some of the assistant coaches are not up to it and I have briefed Mahoney and Pert to get some new ones - spewing Ratten went to Saints" "its time to focus on 2020, as our GF window is still open, but I need to start blooding some younger players, which unfortunately means some of our "old warriors" like Jordan and Nathan will need to spend time in the VFL teaching our young talent" " we have completely stuffed up at the selection table, both this year and last, which probably cost us the double chance last year. I made a mistake sticking with players who I thought would find form, unfortunately, they didn't" "I wish I could reverse some of the trades we made, some of the players we kept will never make it, and some we let go we could have developed- except I insisted on a culture that worships "hard contested footy"- Unfortunately for me, the club, the players and the fans the game is now all about players with "super fast, elite footy skills" and we don't have too many of those" "I honestly did not think that the rule changes brought in by that D*#khead Steve Hocking would impact on our plan as much as it had - sorry" "I admit now, that all the surgery the boys had preseason has impacted both our ability to execute our game plan and our belief that we could get by in the first 6 rounds while they got back to full fitness" "we totally had our "eye of the ball" or should I say "off Steve May" and should have done a fitness test on him as we signed him. That way we would have known his fitness was sub-par and we could have put in a regime to ensure he was not the most unfit player a the Dees. Even our first year players outran him- I was not happy Jan"

Barring post season surgeries (no finals this year), how about sending the whole team to the Kokoda Track end of the season? Might learn something about commitment, determination and sacrifice. Just a suggestion. Was thinking about this when buying my ANZAC badge today.

Tom Browne was doing his usual update on the ground with Tim Watson and said it as they threw to the break. Said he had just heard that Steven May has had a set back with his groin which could keep him out until July. Don't shoot the messenger. Just reporting what was said. Have also seen when googling a couple of other people say they heard the same thing. Hope it's not so but prepare yourselves. Doubt the club would report this one if true anyway as they already know Demon supporters are angry about the reported condition he came back in not to mention the views of many on the trade to begin with.

After we get smashed by the Tigers, I would try out all the guys that can cope physically, to see who stays on the list next year. I would rest all injured players like Tom Mc and put a line through Lever and May and let them be cherry ripe for next year, after a full pre season. I would make sure we get a good kid in the mid season draft. I would chase the best conditioning guy around. I would look at the assistant coaches and set up deals to get the best available in place for next year. I would be prepared to delist anyone who is not up to it at season end, even if that number is 12-14 players. Of course the core of good players must be kept. I would target pace and skill in the draft, a key forward and an extra rookie experienced ruckman as Insurance, and to help Casey in developing their AFL listed players. I would free up the game style for the rest of the season, playing a more basic game and letting players take the game on. While not tanking, I would make development, not winning the key. We have the basis of a good side which needs some consolidation and filling the gaps in a list that is not well balanced. One bad year is bearable, if the next 5 are successful. Anyway that’s how I see it now, with the long injury list and poor start to the season. PS. If we win the next 4 ignore my post, but given our current circumstances that won’t be happening.

I love Jetta as I think/hope most of us on here do. But he's been so poor in the games he's played this year that the loss to us of him going out is negligible. So I agree with you that this is at least a chance to see who else on the list can play on mid/small forwards and aspire to play the role Jetta's been struggling to achieve in 2019. Fingers crossed Jetta comes back post-bye in good health and can make an impact in the second half of the season.

How people can still deny that Misson has been nothing but a disaster for the MFC baffles me. Should have gone years ago.

Be prepared for this comment re: his recruitment to be littered throughout the thread. While May was unprofessional with the way in which he approached pre-season, and I'm willing to give him a little leeway as he came from the worst club in the comp, we can't judge this deal until he retires. Moaning about the deal just because it's hit a roadblock early in the piece isn't solving anything. We know the bloke can play. If he is part of a premiership side, with Lever right beside him, then I'll be a happy man. I'm judging it on that.

Oh and Dave Misson can just GTFO out now. Joel Smith, Steven May and then giving Jetta the all clear to play when CLEARLY he was completely underdone and hindered.

Agee LH But I’d also say that no game plan will work if the players cannot employ the basic skills of modern football. I’m not saying our game plan doesn’t need altering but when we cannot hit a target, drop marks, refuse to two way run, cannot pick up loose men, continue to have 3 up and no one down, continue to show no on field intelligence or leadership, etc then, as I said, no game will work. The players are making our coaching look bad. Therefore the suggestions on here by some of bringing in players of even lessor skills - such as Stretch and ANB, just because they can run - frightens me. But playing Lewis and Jones on the wing is a joke. Having a dysfunctional forward line is a joke. And having a backline that refuses to have one player goal side of any attacking move is a joke - and a poor reflection on our coaching staff. So yes LH the blame needs to be shared.

If we don’t win the contested ball, especially at centre bounces our game plan is stuffed. Opposition have worked out this is our main strength so they put more work into limiting Oliver Viney and Gawns influence , then they get it to the outside quickly and beat us with run and making sure it’s as many uncontested marks as possible. Been happening since the prelim.

There is no secret that MFC have more than a few needs & if things don’t turn expect a huge review of list & potential movement of some expendable “assets”.. 1-2 needs that can be addressed in the inaugural mid season draft, with genuine upside to get ahead on a few that will potentially selected in Nov Draft. Below are targets that are currently under the MFC recruitment watch and 1-2 speculative picks that some keen observers feel SHOULD be: = 1) Dillon O’Reilly (WAFL): A Genuine Key FWD Prospect that has the potential ceiling to kick BAGS. Clean as can be, mobile at ground level due to being perfect modern fwd size (193cm) & is a great potential foil for what we have currently as he is very diff to Weids, Smith’s & TMac. This kid is ready to go & I prey that the MFC somehow get their hands on him - S/O Stephen O and has same sort of composed tough & contested nature of his old man, ball either gets plucked or grounded just doesn’t get outmarked - Mature 19yo that seems to have developed quicker than many imagined initially, was seen as having low ceiling which has been re-assessed in a BIG way!!! (undoubtedly the equal best player MFC could most use on list right now & more so with eye on future & FWD stocks, impo) =1) Marlion Pickett (WAFL): Huge buzz about with Marlion now backing up what he’s delivered prev which is what recruiters want to see. Instant injection to MFC midfield rotation for mine, he’s a Tim Kelly clone that is perhaps a step quicker outside and half step slower inside but one that many clubs will be after if he continues his progression in off field and prep areas. X Factor Dees desp need & has low risk benefits as at worst he’d be a 10 week trial at best a 150 game JET!!! 2) Muhammad Saad (Coburg VFL): Bit of a left field one here but make it known he’s on numerous radars.. Absolute raw electric pace that can even make his big bro look a step slow in first 5 steps - Also stands 10cm taller which adds to his repertoire. Has taken big strides in his reading of game & midfield fitness with time in middle this season - Can butcher it at times but if used correctly many think he can be a real weapon! Could be DEADLY as outside mid/wing & like Hunt - would play better in a side that has more than 1 speedster to use in tandem and link in bursts. 3) Sam Lowson (Coburg VFL): A really interesting prospect that plays modern game perfectly, has great hands and wastes almost ZERO touches. Strong overhead and in first touch which is key, clean and composed with strong pressure potential that could lift to the level req quickly in AFL system, the base and talent are there and can see this guy having impact almost instantly. Has knocks but big upside! Cult figure alert - hair.. is all I’ll say!!! 4) Sam Fisher (Carlton VFL): Genuine speedster that would be a handy addition if he continues to improve on recent outings. Pressure acts decision making much improved and will 100% be on an AFL list in 2020. 5) Cory Gregson (SANFL): Former Cat who was close to being picked up LY but just missed out, however 2019 form suggests his body is as sound as it’s ever been and if stays fit would be an asset to any team needing a small fwd who can play mid minutes in small bursts. Clean and Smart - One id personally love to see given a crack at MFC. Think Lincoln Mccarthey - Step quicker & less brain snaps albeit with less raw talent and “freak” ability but saying that he’s got gifts too, not to be missed if he’s healthy - Clubs already lining up. Others: Mitch Hibberd (VFL) Jye Bolton (WAFL) Wil Hickmott (WAFL) Luke Meadows (WAFL) Jake Di Pasquale (Sorrento/Casey) It is going to be very interesting to see what happens but there are a heap of Sydney Stack/Fritter/Kelly types around just needing that opportunity.. ripper draft class next year and if we do badly enough Rowell would be genuine DEADLY with Brayshaw and Oliver - imagine! But yes I’d rather we didn’t finish last also, but it’s still fun to picture! Can’t see us being anywhere near his range but who knows. Cheers Nudge PS - This post was motivated by seeing the top 50 prospects post on afl.com so for more prospects and entails it’s a good read and has more info on many of the above.. ta —> https://m.afl.com.au/news/2019-04-17/midseason-rookie-draft-who-will-be-the-next-tim-kelly-or-kane-lambert

Culture is everything. The way Melbourne is playing completely indicative of poor culture. If these stories are true reflect very poorly on team leaders. As for McCartney probably call it as he see it (good on him) and the precious players who revolted against the camp once again throw their toy out. These performances and stories really make it hard to support this club. You can wear losing but these players have no connection with the pain of the supporter group.

Goodwin needs to respond to this as the culture of this club is been questioned along with the leaders & coaching staff

I have so much respect for Roos, and to learn this from him is extremely disappointing. There is no reason to disbelieve him. What happened to good old fashioned hard work and hunger for success? Not indulgence and she'll be right mate.

No. Misson ticks off on fitness, not injuries. He's not a doctor.

If true, Gawn must have been talking to himself during his B&F speech.

List is unfit and we are likely to be a bottom 4 side. Damning stuff from the ex-coach.

I hope they really honed in on what Collingwood were doing last year. Really, they choked in that Grand Final and I have them winning the whole thing this year. Their game style mixed with their list, remarkably given where they were in 2017, is the best in the comp. I can see why they like the West Coast comparisons though. Barrass and McGovern could be emulated by a fit Lever and May, but our forwardline is nowhere near as dangerous and our midfield lacks the flexibility of either Grand Finalist.

But I agree with him in that we didn't turn up that day. Yes, we were thoroughly outplayed, but if we had brought the same intensity to that prelim as we had the previous weeks, it would have been a much closer contest. I think psychologically it was important not to review the game with the players and risk scarring them. I have no problem with this, still to this day. The problem I have is our system leaves so little margin for error that it's unsustainable and if it hasn't happened already, the players will lose faith in this system. We have no idea how thoroughly the coaches reviewed the game, but it's hard to know how much would be dismissed due to the fact we didn't bring the required work rate or concentration to the game, versus how we were beaten. I'm certainly not going to be arrogant enough to assume I know how league coaches review a game. The biggest hurdle for us is Goodwin getting past the chaos game and coming up with a more sustainable system to take us forward.

especially when you consider he was eligible to be a free agent at the end of 2019 we could've held our nerve, held onto hogan, and then traded him as a non-free agent at the end of 2019 and picked up may on a freebie disastrous list management when all is said and done

I'll call it a failure when, in three to four years time, we don't have a flag or gotten close to one, and May hasn't provided us with much output on or off the field. Until then I'll be disappointed with his actions over pre-season, but I'm far, far away from calling it a failure yet.

Soft tissue injuries are more likely to happen to those suddenly increasing their load from a poor fitness base. Don’t label anyone who disagrees with you stupid.

Obviously May turned up to the club out-of-shape and was playing catch-up through the preseason. It seems as though he is paying for this now. However, the current state of the List reeks of mismanagement over summer. Players struggling after surgery, a general lack of fitness, and, most damningly, playing whilst injured both during JLT and the early rounds is either a complete breakdown in the football department or desperation from a coaching staff that is telling supporters it's a long season. WTF is going on?!

This is going to go down well.

Let’s try our hardest to stay positive until quarter time at least. Put your coaches hats on and discuss how we can win. Bring in some fresh legs for starters, I’ve read suggestions we should go man on man. Can we sustain that for 4 quarters? Toiges have a plethora of zippy small forwards that’s why Hunt goes back for me especially if Jeffy comes in. He was good on Motlop Round 1. At least he has the speed to keep up and make it harder for them. Weid and T Mac need to clunk a few early and get some confidence providing our delivery is much improved. Max and Nank should have an interesting battle. The Nank likes to push forward and is capable of kicking at least a couple. If they are to beat us at least make them earn their goals for the entirety.

Lockhart and Garlett better come in. We are slow, boring and one dimensional and need to find a spark from somewhere.

I share the frustration and disappointment of everyone else here, but I must be the only one who saw some purposeful attempts to use the corridor in the first half. I haven't watched the replay yet (still summoning myself to that) but there were repeated moves where we drove into the corridor with direct low passes. It was in the forward 50 and in goal kicking (petracca, melksham, emac all culpable at different times) where we failed to press our advantage. There is a system being attempted but we need much better spread up forward to create options for the mids to find targets. StK repeatedly had up to three extras back to pick us off. I like the idea on here of putting Hunt on the wing. We also need to include Garlett. Like Preuss, he's coming in at least one week late even if he gets a go against the Tigers but his leg speed is essential. Lockhart also has to come into consideration. Spargo is a no go. In warm up he can kick 45 metres, under pressure in a game he is lucky to make 30 metres, and that's off target. Around goals he is no good. Petracca needs help from a sports psychologist. He has a kick on him like a mule but he needs to focus on the task of getting foot to ball, not on the intended outcome. Then he won't be such a momentum killer. TMac is just out of sorts. It happens; he'll recover eventually. The new rules hurt us - our game relies on keeping the ball inside the forward 50 but the licence allowed on kick-ins now makes that task more difficult. But those of us calling for the coach to show some emotion at press conferences...really? You want him to break down and weep? Shake his head, say "I have no idea what's happening"? On that I disagree. I want serious analytical thought applied to our dilemma, not some mad rant. Mad ranting...that's our job!

Agreed. May and Lever would (hopefully) help strengthen the back six but if they're being told to press up and zone off the same way OMac, Frost and Hibberd are, then we're going to have the same problems.

Give me a spell

We've got a core of oliver, brayshaw, viney, harmes, salem, may, lever, tmac, weid, petracca, gawn. Our setups all over the ground are horrible. I cant see how its players when they are setting up at stoppages allows clear paths for opposition. Positioning would have to be where they're trained to be. Its all or nothing, no defence. and when we do win it, we have been worked out and easy to pressure that quick kick which is turned over for easy un pressured kicks which opens up the high press. But we'll continue doing it and the players will put in effort for a little bit then fade away. Frostys speed is the reason tgey did stuff a couple up. Its not the 2018 game plan, its a higher more attacking zone, with full attacking setups. Its obviously been drilled into the players to get it into the 10-25m hotspot, its so frustrating watching capable players 35 to 50M out have time for a shot but look for a short kick to a contest or a dicey handball because he's not in the hotspot. Sure goodwin looked at the stats and thats where most goals are kicked and accurately, but not when we're outnumbered or turn it over trying to get it there. Take the shot, stop being so predictable!

Wanna bet?

I'm reluctant to post but I will give it a go. Last year when we were winning the game was a lot slower paced. There were a lot more contests, and ball ups etc. That is where we excelled. Like you said we are still winning the ball The biggest difference as far as I can tell is that the 666 allows fast scoring. We can not send extra players to contest at ball ups any more basically meaning the game has sped up. For example last year we were sending 2 or 3 from the back line to the centre contest, which you're not allowed to do now. This slowed the game up So what does that mean? It means the game is more open. We are getting exposed in transition for a lack of pace - we are too slow, and our ball use is terrible so we can't retain the ball. Other teams just sit back and defend, wait for us to turn it over and out run us. This was a problem last year as well, but we found a way through contests to slow it down. Now it isn't as all as simple as that, but that's basically how I see it. We won't get any better until we improve our defensive set ups (Lever and May come back) and we need pace all over the ground. We have too many slow, poorly skilled one pace players, too many inside mids, all our talls are slow. Our inside 50 efficiency is embarrassing, teams are consistently out running us, teams score so easily against us because we defend so high and we are too slow or we turn it over in really bad spots. Jones cops a lot on here but at least he is willing and able to provide run which isn't his natural go. Anyway there is a lot of work to do for this group, I honestly can't see them getting better this year. We are too slow and too portly skilled. Thank you AFL for opening the game up and keeping the big teams up the top. (although I am happy to see the Suns and Saints win a few games) And I agree with @Redleg the Blues will beat us easily

At the moment it's looking like 3-9 at the bye at best (maybe 4-8), so yes the season is done. Even if we make the finals as 8th, surely all the petrol tickets would have been spent just getting there. After the St. Kilda (?) match last year, the club spoke about how they tweaked the structure to be less aggressive and use Gawn behind the ball. With that, the turn around happened until the Prelim where West Coast, apparently, did nothing to beat us, and we just didn't turn up. Since then, a similar style, with the re-addition of the ultra-aggressive, chaotic, congested, inside, and ultimately easily-countered style of the first two thirds of last year. I'm concerned that the football department has thought natural progression of individual talent would allow for the proper implementation of a gameplan that has already proven to be average at best. What's even worse is that this decision seems to have come off the back of a degree of success last year, and scant regard for both opposition countermeasures and significant rule changes from an AFL determined to rid the competition of the style of football Melbourne are stubbornly trying to play. Whilst I understand, to an extent, feelings of vindication of the approach last year during the team's hot form, surely there is now 3/4 of a season to recognise the failures of focusing on four of five key stats and assuming good results when those stats are won, and implementing a more creative approach that gets more from less.