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Hardly a junket. Unlike our political masters I think the coaching group deserve these trips even if they gain nothing but some valuable time off. However, I'm sure they do gain some good insight. It can't hurt to have a look at what others are doing, discuss, learn where appropriate and ensure we are up with or even ahead of the latest trends.

We've got 34 + 2 rookies (+2 Cat B) at present. We not rushing to sign any DFA. Makes sense to just take 4 at the ND and go with a senior list of 38. There's a small salary cap saving there too. Then add just 2 in the RD and go with 38 + 4 + 2. Leave 2 Rookie spots open for those 2 new sign-ups/drafts mentioned in that article and take a ruck there like @Good Lord George says if disaster hits.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2018-11-05/returning-to-the-track Melbourne’s first-to-fourth year players still have a few more weeks to cool their heels before returning to training on Monday November 19. The senior players are due back on Monday December 3. Injury list: A number of players underwent post-season surgeries including Jack Viney (ankle), Christian Petracca (knee), Mitch Hannan (knee), Clayton Oliver (both shoulders), Aaron vandenBerg (shoulder), Jayden Hunt(shoulder), James Harmes (shoulder) and Neville Jetta (shoulder). All the players listed are expected to resume full training post-Christmas. Draft picks: 23, 28, 54, 62, 91 Major off-field moves: Following Peter Jackson's planned departure at the end of the season, Gary Pert has taken over as CEO as of early October. Melbourne's coaching staff has had little turnover and is locked in for another season. Round one: Port Adelaide, MCG, March 23, 1.45pm. 2018 Premiership odds: $8 And another thing … Melbourne coaches have covered all parts of the globe in the off season. Simon Goodwin(London), Craig Jennings (Japan) and Troy Chaplin (US) embarked on study tours to gain insights by visiting sporting clubs in those countries.

I'm confused about how you think Bailey Williams is going to provide AFL depth in 2019 if Weid doesn't perform consistently? Sure it's a reasonable argument to recruit KPF depth but there's no way a draftee is going to help next year. I think you've put two ideas in the blender there.

According to Jake who I spoke to at season's end, wants to be up and ruuning for Rd 1 selection, has a complete program mapped out to try and acheive this, assume he will need every box ticked as this is 2nd knee

Name another club with more than 2 good/reasonable KPF's? Richmond now have 2 West Coast have 2 Hawthorn have the ageing Rough Geelong have Hawk GWS have Cameron and an injured Patton Collingwood have Cox and whoever else they use to pinch hit Port have Dixon North have Brown Swans have Buddy EFC used their full back when Daniher couldn't play this season etc. etc..... Our list is in good shape, we have pretty good coverage across the board.

At risk of sounding like an old fart, it hadn’t occurred to me that there would be adults on Demonland still young enough for Colin Sylvia to have been included in their idols growing up set. His era feels too recent as the years fly by. It adds another dimension to the club’s collective grief that I hadn’t considered. Condolences to yourself and others out there in that boat.

I don't care about the non-Melbourne games so I came up with this ladder.

Chris Doerre (aka Knightmare) has done an interesting draft needs analysis for ESPN - AFL Draft: Your club's list needs Here's his analysis for the MFC - List needs 1. Classy inside midfielder 2. General forward 3. Relieving ruck Draft picks: 23, 28, 54, 62, 91 Who should they draft? As a medium marking forward, Sam Sturt would be a strong addition to Melbourne's front half at 23. Bailey Williams at 28 would be ideal as a relieving ruckman who has uncontainable athleticism as a marking forward. If one of the Demons' preferred choices in the 20s is unavailable, midfielder Sydney Stack would add further class to the club's engine room. Through their NGA, Toby Bedford will provide speed and pressure through the midfield and up forward.

Which was the other 3yo.... If Ace gets up Macca....it will be Dancing in Dubrovnik!

I looked at the pics and wondered why the jumpers looked so good. I pine for the days before marketing, advertising and entertainment.

Annoyingly, a tax exempt business with one of the largest property portfolios in Australia.

I am doing a Box Trifecta and maybe a F4 as I often do with the cup ... but this time around I'm going wider and am happy with the smaller percentage. The dividends are often extremely good anyway so any sort of collect can be decent. The two 3YO's are almost certainly going to be included and not just because of their lightweights ... both are good performers and we all saw what Rekindling did last year. And it goes without saying that the overseas contingent will probably dominate the finish anyway. The rest of the card is average compared to what we've been seeing ... however, races 2, 6, 8, 9 & 10 have a number of familiar names. Very difficult finding some standout winners Wadda but the value for me then becomes the trifectas. Full Race Card - Melbourne Cup Day

Mmmm.....interesting comment DZ. I do now remember the Caulfield Cup run, it stood out and was all the talk last year before the Cup. Dont think Bowman rode it last year? Didnt Vengeur Masque run well also? What are peoples other thoughts on Cup Eve? The 3yo...any chance? The above comments almost seem like a Joeboy 3 word analysis! Also just looking through the race card for the day, its always so bad. When is that gonna change? So many other race days have been vamped up to the max. Darby Day now has many rival days for instance. Its the VRCs day of days and yet we have listed race BM90s or some rubbish. So many people turn to Cup Day that know nothing about racing and want to learn about it and they get served up that rubbish. I find it strange to be honest. Also i mean i hate to mention the bleeding obvious but... The Shieks horse has won its last 4 races including the Caulfield Cup at 16/1 when the jockey was saying it was a great horse from a great trainer and in any other race in the world no way would it be 16s, but thats ok cause it takes the pressure off me. I mean.....is there something im missing here?

MFC should get a Christmas card from Eppworth and the Avenue.

Anyone know what Lever's timeline is at this stage?? Any chance at all for the opening rounds?

Marmello did run last year Wadda. I was on it then. It wasn’t a very good ride, the jock took the horse to the front too early. Connections said they will ride the horse a bit quieter this year. It ran a cracking race in last year’s Caulfield Cup. The horse seems to be in good form, can it win? Not so sure but it should be in the mix for a top 4 finish imo.

Certainly a hard one this year. Lloyd Williams cant be dismissed. Call me mad, but im sticking with Ace High. At least the odds are good. I will have another one i like though, just thinking about the others.....Bowman is on Marmello, ran last year didnt it?

Interesting to hear that Valente & Duursma are among the 20 kids invited to day 1 of the draft and Ian Hill & Curtis Taylor, who have both been comfortably ranked inside the top 20 for the last year or so, are not. Dees could have some handy players slide to 23 & 28. Some more names to consider: https://coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/afl/afl-2018-draft-board-power-rankings-26-to-50-the-hidden-gems-that-loom-as-draft-bargains/news-story/9f1044dcf7c125149ed2139eaa5108e3?__twitter_impression=true

Shannon Byrnes and Matty Whelan fulfil this role at the club I put in the other thread that apart from being a natural footballer Col was a top bloke who was always up for a chat and a laugh whenever you met him offfield

In my opinion, yes Gorg. Usually I can find one that stands out to me each year but it’s a struggle this time around. The horse I’ll choose won’t be with much confidence, will probably box a few horses for the exotics and hope for the best. I also can’t recall the last time we had a shortish favourite around $5 two days out. I’m a bit surprised at Yucatan’s odds but it did win extremely well last start although the final margin doesn’t really reflect the performance.

Might be another WA furphy... I'm sure we all remember Jack Darling.

So what you are saying is that we need a backup for the backup ruckman? Not sure that AFL lists are big enough to enable that luxury these days. I know we sort of had that when we had Spencer to some extent, but I think allowing Pedo to retire was a fair sign that we don't think we wanted to go back there. I haven't paid too much attention to what this mid season draft is all about, but I'm wondering if the opportunity that could present to pick up the best/ in form state league ruck in case of an emergency is something that factors into all this?

That is quite an advantage. We have recruited Vandenberg, Hannan, Fritsch and ? from State leagues paid for with draft picks. All now multiple finals players - GCS and Carlton get the like for free. TBH I don't mind GCS getting a helping hand but not Carlton - They tanked, have had a plethora of top draft picks, deliberately trade out their experienced talent, had mega favourable fixures (Home games at the G vs big crowds), FTA favourtism, are poorly managed and are now asking for more handouts!! Oh, I forgot - the AFL and Eddie want to make them 'great' again!

From Big Footy... "He has zero forward craft. Doesn’t know how to crumb packs to save his life. But man can he tackle. When he’s playing well he can kick 2-3 goals, apply a shitload of pressure in the forward line, provide some nice link up play down the field and his delivery by foot is excellent. The problem is he’s very prone to having 4 disposal games where you completely forget he’s playing. He’s decent depth and would come very cheap. Who knows, a functioning forward line might bring the best out of him" https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/jake-neade-delisted.1206529/

I enjoyed going to that game as well, gutted we didn't win (and we were royally screwed by the umps that day) but it was a cracker or a game. I would go back there again and encourage others to make the trip south.

Do you feel that this is a very open cup?

Here is a snapshot of Demonland in 2002

It’s actually one I liked the name of due to my massive nerdness. ?

Australian Group & Listed Races Best Bet Strike Rate 54: 20 - 6 - 8 And here are the replays of the 4 Group 1's from Derby Day yesterday

Is there a mid season draft happening for state league players? Maybe we could wait until then, to see if we actually need another back up ruck.

Fantastic performance by 'Enable' again DZ. In fact, all the winners from Churchill Downs were impressive as we witnessed the very best of the best. The Creme de la Creme. 9 Group 1's were decided in all and they raced for a total of over $30Million. So we have our time-honoured Derby Day whilst in the States they have a similar day. On the same day! I had a few bets, got a couple of winners and ended up all square! ? I at least got the winner in the Classic which was pleasing. Here are all the decided races in order ... the links will take you to youtube and the videos are from the Breeders Cup Organisation themselves. Fillies & Mares Sprint Dirt Mile Fillies & Mares Turf Breeders Cup Sprint Breeders Cup Mile Turf Sprint Breeders Cup Distaff Breeders Cup Turf Breeders Cup Classic

Enable became the first Arc winner to salute in the Breeders’ Cup overnight. One serious racehorse, would love to see her race here.

I’m cheering for Magic Circle just to see Marwan Koukash parade around in a G-String like he promised should the horse win. One has to enjoy these colourful characters. Seriously tough field.

I reckon the challenge is how do you develop another ruck without interfering with the development of your existing rucks? If Preuss ends up in the VFL a bit, if Bradtke is also in the side, another ruckman is only going to get slim pickings as far as actual ruck time goes. Whether we take another ruckman depends on our view about whether Preuss will mainly play for Melbourne or Casey, which is highly speculative at this point. If Preuss plays VFL but we take another ruck, we end up crowding Casey with developing rucks. If Preuss plays AFL and we didn’t take another ruck, Casey only has one ruck and it’s a development opportunity lost. Tricky call.

I used to hate the idea of selling home games in the NT. However, we’ve finally started to win games there to the point where we went 2-0 there this year. And they were both dominant performances. We’ve also mastered the recovery component of NT games as we’ve won our last 4 games the week after NT games. Hopefully we can make the NT a fortress gong forward whereby we get an automatic 4 points, the opposition dread the trip up there and we cash in financially. And we still get our 11-12 games at the G. North will play finals next year due to playing 4 games at their ‘fortress’. And hopefully we’re too good for West Coast Adelaide with those 2 extra wins getting us into the top 2 after rd 23.

I almost spat my chips when i read that, mainly because it could so easily have happened if it went the way some of our supporters suggested it could/should. Yeah, a few on his board would have been happy to use Angus as trade currency at the end of last year. We might have got a mid-late first rounder for him if we were lucky perhaps? How cranky would we all have felt if we sold him for pick 10-15 and he immediately had a season like this one, but playing for another club. Wouldnt it be epic if KK turns out to be as good as Brayshaw, considering he was essentially the steak-knives in the Hogan-May saga. We may end up being very very happy with this deal, or it could be less than great if Hogan goes ape for Freo, and May/KK are just so-so. Only time will tell but im really confident our people knew exactly what they wanted, and made the best of Hogan asking to go home.

We’ve had the Demon flag at half mast since we heard. He and J Watts visited our critically ill son at RCH, had respect and admiration for them both since then. Rest easily Col.

You could also just set fire to it; at least there’s a much lower chance of it ending up in the hands of crooks.

Looking through our fixture yesterday, I had us down for 16 wins. That's mostly beating the teams we should beat and winning a game against Collingwood, West Coast or Richmond. * I can't see Geelong making the 8 next year. * I think Hawthorn over-achieved this year and are starting to remind me of Geelong in that they're desperately topping up in the hope they've got enough talent to pinch one. Even with Clarkson, I don't see it. * Port are massive under achievers, but they could just as easily miss out on the 8 again. I expect them to scrape in next year though, otherwise a change of coach is coming. * The Dogs could turn it around, but they lack the midfield depth required and barring a miracle they won't make the 8 either. * Gold Coast, Fremantle and Carlton will be similarly placed come the end of the year. I really can't see them getting out of the bottom 4. * Unless Horse changes tact, I see Sydney missing the 8 next year. * GWS will probably finish just inside the 8, but could easily miss. * North will be on the fringe again. I could see them sneaking into the 8. * St Kilda are ordinary, but if they can bring the pressure game they brought under Richardson 2-3 years ago, they could finish on the fringe, but I can't see them making the 8. * I think we'll see Brisbane rise and finish anywhere between 13th-10th. A year too early for them to make finals IMO. That leaves the following teams to thrash it out for the top 4: West Coast, Collingwood, Richmond, Melbourne, Essendon and Adelaide. The rest of the top 8 will be made up of two of GWS, Hawthorn, Port and North. OF THE TOP 4 With injuries, Richmond could miss out on the top 4 altogether. They've had an incredible run with injuries and if Rance goes down, that's 3-4 goals a game they'll be worse off. I think Riewoldt and Lynch will change the dynamics of their forwardline and transform them into a higher scoring team, but a more predictable unit, which will see them lose more often. Collingwood had a very, very easy draw this year. 2019 will test them, but through their easy draw this year, they built some confidence in their system and they still have 2 older champions in the midfield and emerging half backs and mids. I could just as easily see Collingwood tipping out of the top 4 too. West Coast have been thereabouts for the last few seasons and their defensive system and power forwards will make them difficult to beat. Particularly, now that these guys have a flag under their belts. They're beatable, but I think top 4 certainly beckons for them in 2019. Adelaide still have a good list, but injuries proved this year that they're not as powerful as it may have seemed leading into 2018. When we had crucial injuries in 2017, Goodwin pulled the right reigns and devised a system that enabled us to finish 9th and missing by percentage. In all honesty, even though they finished a single win outside of the 8 in 2018, Adelaide were a long way off being the standard of a top 8 team (bar maybe their Richmond game). They're the wild card entry for top 4 in 2019. The hype around Essendon is actually justified IMO. Their midfield is shaping up nicely. Their problem is little margin for error, both in injury (if Daniher goes down again and Fantasia misses, they'll struggle to make the 8 ) and in work rate+system. Their lack of a decent second KPF and a good ruckman will probably see them just miss the top 4, but who knows? This leaves us. If we can stay healthy and fit, our list is well balanced, although still slow on the outside. If Gawn, Oliver and Brayshaw stay fit we'll push for top 4. If they all play and are accompanied by Viney (IMO almost our most important player), we'll make the top 4. I hope Lever, May and one of McDonald/Frost get some serious continuity together next season. If they do, we'll be hard to beat.

Fitzroy in 1964 were the last team to go through a whole season winless, and before that it was Hawthorn in 1950. As we know all too well, there have been some terribly awful teams in that time, but even Fitzroy in 1996 won a game while in their death throes. There will always be awful teams, but the AFL as a competition is still even enough that they only have to play out of their skins once, or have some bunch of hacks coast and drop their game, and the awful teams will get their one win at least. It won't happen. Have fun flushing your $100 down the toilet lads!

Gold Coast will win at least 2 games, more likely 3.

An AFL recruiter told me mid year this isn't a deep draft without much talent after pick 40. I think teams are manipulating the salary cap better, using rookie spots and conducting almost a secondary trade period now with delisted players. It's pretty much a trash and treasure swap meet with delisted players. I think rebuilding sides will get most of their picks done by pick 45 and then the teams in contention who have traded in players like the Hawks will roll the dice with late picks. Our strategy seems to be to get 3 good picks and fill the last 3 list spots by the best available means be that drafting one or two more kids, drafting a state league type, picking up a delisted player or having an extra rookie.

My assumptive best 22 is as follows Back: Jetta: May: Hibberd HB: Salem: O-Mac: Lever Cen: Kola: Oliver: Harmes HF: Trac: Weid: ANB For: Spargo: T-Mac: Melk Ruck: Gawn: Brayshaw: Viney I/C: Lewis: AVB: Jones: Fritsch: This leave us with: key back depth both proven in Frost and emerging in Petty and Keilty. small to mid backs in Hunt , Smith and Wagner with potential to swing around Lewis, Fritsch or Kolo as required. Key forward leaves us a bit light with T.Smith but the flexibility to play the extra ruck or a smaller one tall forward line with Trac or Melksham as the second. I suspect there is a chance that J Smith also is trialled forward. A back up ruck position better than last year. Strong Small forward cover in Garlett and Hannan, Midfield depth we really only have Stretch , JKH and the untried Maynard and Baker but we have plenty of flex in our half backs and forwards to play midfield minutes and suspect we will draft more in this space. Our depth knowing we have 8ish spots to fill allows us to swing wide for best available talent from a mid to long view without trying to fix for the short term.

For me agree it’s down to 6 Bailey Williams - Dandenong-Big forward/ruck, Agile, Skilled, Goalkicker. Likely to go 15-19. Xavier O’Halloran-Western- highly skilled ruck rover. 187cms. Inside/outside. Classic modern midfielder, A leader. Likely 23-25 pick Ely Smith- midfield bull, competitor, clearance king, Pace, toughness, ready to go. Likely to go 15-23 Xavier Duursma - Gippsland- pacy mid, takes game on, attacking mid, inside/outside competitor. Likely 23-25 pick Tom McKenzie- Northern- the runner. Outside midfielder. Very skilled. Good competitor. Perfect fit. Likely pick 23-28 Chayce Jones - Tassie- another outside running mid. Wingman. Classic footballer. Good skills and decisions. Likely pick 25-29.

Wow. The star pulling power that Demonland has is impressive. I noticed that Maxy also gave Demonland a bit of a shout out in his B&F speach. That these players and officials of standing keep rocking up to give interviews is a real credit to the manner in which the moderators and administrators at Demonland run the forum. Well done guys.

Nah, I think it wanted to go home.

no, mitch cleary said that

Look, anyone that has a clue about footy knows May is quality and should be back to his best in a good side like ours. It's really simple. Those that don't rate him clearly don't watch enough of him or are just clueless. One can only laugh when posters start talking about which opposition player kicked what amount of goals on him. It's just massive lols. If one's understanding of football only goes that far, there's no point in engaging further with them.

The notion of FB and CHB has changed. May gets the no.1 key forward, Oscar (or Frost) gets the next tall/resting ruck, and Lever is the intercept.