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My reading of the situation here is the opposite of what others seem to think - the AFL are not going to touch this in a million years. This whole thing is being driven by the media, who know the full allegations and details and are ringing the MFC, AFL and VicPolice almost daily to see if there's any development. Unless the complainant progresses with it in Bali, nothing can or will happen, and eventually all three of of MFC, AFL and VicPolice will all be able to say "we can't do anything with it' with a clean conscience. In the meantime, for reasons of both public perception and the need to treat sexual assault allegations very seriously, it's incumbent on them to "support" the alleged victim.

Unless the matter is sent through the appropriate authorities, and possibly even if it is, then it is nothing more than he said/she said situation. Unless the player admits to any kind of inappropriate behaviour how will they determine guilt? Does he have no recourse to defend himself? Is the alleged victim going to submit to medical testing and cross examination/investigation or whatever else is usual in these cases? This is not to downplay the behaviour but just to look at it from a legal perspective. Before any punishment can be issued it is surely imperative that guilt is determined.

The matter was correctly referred to the Police by the AFL. If the woman chooses to not assist Police then there is absolutely nothing the AFL can do in way of penalising the player. If the woman did provide a formal complaint and go through the investigation process, then the player’s club or the AFL may have chosen to stand down the player while the matter was being investigated and/or going through the court process.

If no complaints or charges are made and the AFL decides to impose a penalty could they not be opening themselves up for defamation charges?

Well, no. It's up to the coppers to investigate, not the workplace. If the police don't have allegations to work with, that's where it will end. No formal complaint from an alleged victim, and there is nothing to go on. Too many people have already made their mind up that someone needs to be punished. Based on nothing more than newspaper articles which dont provide anything more than someones "opinion". No complaint = no investigation = no finding of guilt = no punishment. You know, the law and everything.

Another reason why these matters should be left entirely to the police. I cannot see why the AFL should have any role in this sort of thing. For a start their prime motivation will be protecting the image of the AFL. Fairness to the parties involved will be secondary. And even if they were fair, I don't see why the AFL should poke its nose in until the court process is finished. Edit to add:. And if there is no court process, what possible role has the AFL got other than getting involved in a libel action. (Of course they could threaten an 'employee' in some way but that is also objectionable. If mediation is required, once again I don't see a role for AFL house which has a major conflict of interest. )

AFL supporting the alleged victim but waiting till their people get back from holidays. Imagine this being the police line. Meanwhile the player concerned is also left in limbo. Unfair to both parties.

The only way the AFL can go it alone without Vic Pol or Bali Pol is if they have a watertight clause in player contacts which says they can do whatever the f*** they like and everything and everyone else can suck s***. Otherwise they better have massively deep pockets because both parties will sure them to kingdom come and back again

Maybe? Can add Hogan to that group now His latest Instagram story shows a nice shiny Toyota. Can't ignore it now.

Take the emotion out of it Deestar. It’s a matter for the Police and there’s been no offical complaint from the woman. It’s not up to the AFL to punish the ‘alleged offender’ because you feel he shouldn’t get off ‘scott free’. You’ve put yourself in the woman’s shoes, do the same for the player. Would you want your employer determining your guilt based on a half baked investigation? Without going too much into a sex assault investigation, a lot more goes into one than just interviewing those concerned. The AFL can’t do much more than that.

I cannot imagine any scenario (regarding the original accusation) where a player would be touched by those rules without a formal complaint being lodged with the appropriate department in Bali. Just couldn't happen.

I'm with those who can't see how the AFL can possibly adjudicate on this without some sort of police investigation.

Yeah what’s four young lives hey?

I see it the other way around...for an average club, it has quite powerful membership.

For a so called power club that gets prime time games & privileges , Carltons membership is very average.

Whateley is doing a Tim Lane. He is probably the closest radio/TV person to Tim Lane, as an articulate and intelligent broadcaster of virtually all sport. He does his homework and speaks knowledgeably about the sport that he is broadcasting, provides accurate commentary on the action and provides analysis on the sport. He does the micro and macro stuff well. Was Tim Lanes move a success? I'm not sure. Probably ask Tim. The listener may have a different slant but none of us can get into the mind of the commentator. From GW's view it is understandable. Age and career wise, and money wise. Things are not hunky dory at the ABC with cuts, cuts and more cuts. Morale is poor and the ABC risks being cut out of some sports or having reduced coverage or reduced broadcasting rights in the future. People talk about the bogans on other stations, but the quality of commentators on ABC has decreased over recent years, presumably due to funding cuts and the ABCs need to reduce expenses. I don't think it will be a big deal if the SEN thing does not work but it will be a stepping stone for GW to take on other opportunities and improve his pay packet.

Ask yourselves this ...if your daughter/sister...friend etc was the victim of this “alleged “ complaint but chose not to pursue it through the courts and put herself through even more angst and degradation but instead went to the “employer” of her “alleged “ attacker & stated her case & then asked them to investigate & to see if the “employee “ fits into the standards & ethics that the organisation stands for then so be it... I can absolutely understand a woman not wanting to drag this through a court but the investigation will be thorough & just because it won’t go to court doesn’t mean that the “alleged” offender should get off scott free... surely any self respecting individual would want some form of justice? I would be extremely surprised if the AFL or the club will make any of this public & neither should they ...but don’t kid yourselves that this is a lot of “nothing “

I agree. Well sort-of. There is no way the AFL could use the old "Bringing the game into disrepute" unless there was something disreputable that occurred. Surely no possible punishment cant be meted out, even under the "disrepute" guise, without something being proven. At minimum, there would need to be a balance of probabilities based on evidence, or it would be a total injustice. Legal types would be much better equipped to explain the possibilities, im just a Nurse. Anyway, no evidence = no disrepute. Public or not, the AFL cant do very much without it i reckon. Otherwise, it's just he-said she-said, and you couldn't punish anyone based on that. Could you? Dunno, guess we will see.

The problem the AFL now has it that if they truly want to protect the “victim’s” privacy, then they cannot act against a player, because as soon as the player is identified then the victim is easily identified. Surely the “bringing the game into disrepute” path can only be taken if the case becomes public (that is, people involved are disclosed publicly)? The AFL appears to be caught up in a perfect Catch22 scenario.

Depth is always a bit of an illusion... I hope we don't have to see it too much this year at AFL level. Depth will never replace your champion players, we need them on the ground.

Thanks Ethan - of curse, I'm not forgetting those lives - it was terrible (though I suspect lives are lost on any major construction program - ask any building worker, and as Dieter says, the blame should be shared) But what I'm getting at is the disaster that is slowly unfolding in the form of the NBN. We seem to be getting one of the worst internet services in the world. Just listen when any talkback radio show brings it up They are deluged with complaints - often, as I heard this morning, from old people who are having their regular phone services cut off. All I'm saying is that having a decent internet is essential for the way of life we enjoy these days - think of the diminution of services - doctors, medical-alerts, small business troubles, loss of income and all the problems that go with it. I suspect, long term, there will be terrible consequences from this stuff-up.

An extract from the Royal Commission into the scheme: On 6 June 2009, Mr Garrett received a briefng (through Mr Forbes) seeking his approval for the ‘installer minimum competencies’ prepared by Mr Keeffe. Mr Garrett approved minimum competencies which did not require installers to receive training.

may be true. But if so, yet again the AFL's motivation is to protect its own reputation rather than be fair to the complainant (by dragging things out) or the players involved (including those which might be the alleged perpetrator).

Safety on ALL Mining Sites is a red hot issue. Nothing gets out. Especially the accident stats. Conversely on privatised Port sites like Freo and Darwin a fair amount of stuff gets in. Like Unknown drugs etc. God, those bloody Unions were a nuisance.......

Inspired by Little Goffys post above i watched the entire R23 game. ...missed it back then. Pies gave it their best. IMO Watts’ poor last quater was a bit exaggerated above. When we were thrashed in Q1 he was our best player, was good in Q2, maybe still our best by half time,,, average third and poor last quarters. I think the public nature of his unfair MFC treatment foolishly reduced his trade value for us. Here’s wishing Jack every success at Port Adelaide!

Cities maybe, but where the big union dues are, they are still hanging on, granted on a much reduced membership. As soon as times pick up again, and they always do, the competition for permanent employees grows, and that's where the unions come back to the fore. I for one would benefit greatly from a unionised workforce. Simply need the price of coal to stay solid, and for a few long term supply contracts to be signed. Some unions in the cities killed themselves, by holding construction companies to ransom until the appropriate kickbacks were paid. As for the others, it's usually your leadership that brings you undone, and mostly while seeking self-gain.

Stuffing up the national broadband network is infinitely more damaging than any mistakes made in the home insulation scheme.

Next one to be in Red and Blue (without any horrible white away/clash jumper rubbish).

Actually dc I think the napkin plan was a Coalition incarnation, rather than the Labor phase. It’s getting hard to remember which acts of absurdity belong to which party.

Wentz hardly had an off day in the 13 games that he played ... he was probably very good to outstanding in 10 - 11 games. Those numbers would probably measure up quite well against Brady & Gurley but Wentz got injured at the wrong time for an award such as this. What happens at the end of the regular season stands out more ... that's why I reckon Gurley can win the award. We'd probably have any number of Brownlow comparisons through the years where similar scenarios have happened.

Gerard is a nice person, knowledgeable, balanced, and experienced. I doubt you'd hear a bad word about him. I find him boring.

What Turnbull has produced bears absolutely no resemblance to the NBN proposed under Labor. And I’m not sure (don’t know the figures) that it has saved anywhere near the dollars that Mal claimed it would.

interesting how the article ends

So it looks like we have another level of law now...well maybe above the law as the AFL seems to place itself. Not so sure about the AFL or any organisation apart from the appropriate legal authorities dealing with these issues. The EFC saga is a case in point. The illicit drugs policy is another. Someone may convince me otherwise but at the moment I think it's treading a very dangerous path.

Seems Petracca just bought a brand new Lexus from Cranbourne Toyota as per his Instagram story

Don't forget how effective and unexpectedly creative/lethal young Melksham (again from the Dons) has become - and fairly consistently across a season, too.

Whately will be missed by listeners on the ABC. But they are unlikely to change with him. Both are not used to private section endorsement interruptions and it will be interesting how this works. i feel that we will see Gerard sink to mediocracy while some previously unknown will seamlessly replace him on ABC.

What has CASA (Civil Aviation Safety Authority) got to do with it? For that matter what has the AFL got to do with it...the so called spokesperson seems to think they (AFL) have more authority in Bali than the Vic Police. It would seem neither have any... I'm not a fan of the way the AFL run their business but without any charges they can't be expected to be judge and jury. Surely they can only act after the law has run it's course.

Seems to me like the mfc and the afl have played a straight bat and referred the matter to the police.... The police are doing their thing so how, herald sun, have the afl dropped the ball?

Decline as they should. The last place this should be played out in is the esteemed journalistic columns of The Hun

This. Watch the Casey game where Fritsch and Watts were both playing in the forward line. From memory it went something like Fritsch 4 goals, Watts 1 goal, 2 points.

Whateley is a huge get. An old fashioned type of caller, but adjusted for the 21st century. Clear intelligent commentary and does his homework.

I get so tired of economists, I really do. Economic statisticians in particular. There are a number of little fluffy statements that should be read as 'please note massive caveat on data and circular interpretation'. For example " While Melbourne did better with its lower picks, those players generally aren’t as important for team performance as players selected with higher picks. " Terrible charts, badly labelled, inconsistent formats being presented as if they are a like for like comparison. Conclusions thrown in as inserted sentences well before the discussion of the actual evidence. This is embarrassing to read. Anyway, to the substance. Richmond's 2005 and 2007 drafts were among the worst of any club, ever. Their 2010 draft was made respectable only by picking up Houli in the pre-season instead of a trade, unless you're a real fan of Reece Conca. 2011 produced only one player, Brandon Ellis. As discussed in a number of other threads, Richmond's premiership hinged on an amazing surge of recruitment in just the last few years, with close to half their premiership team arriving since 2012. Anyway... back to griping about economic statisticians. What the hell is going on with that first chart? Every year only has two data points, except for 2009... oh... oh my. Oh boy oh boy. I have a hunch... let me just check a few things... yep. capslock time PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS AT UNIVERSITY OF MELBOURNE HAS INCLUDED ONLY PLAYERS STILL IN THE RICHMOND TEAM FIVE YEARS LATER AS DATA POINTS WHEN ASSESSING DRAFT PERFORMANCE Basically, all failures have been excluded from the sample, in a 'study' that claims to assess success or failure.

but......assuming the result is no further action and the incident is closed......what can they say that will satisfy everyone? I'd suggest they would say nothing of any great substance and all that would achieve would be raising more media, public awareness and discussion let's not forget (a) we don't know the complainant (b) we don't know the accused and (c) we don't now the details of the complaint. We have been told the complainant doesn't wish to make a formal statement. In essence this issue hasn't even got to first base and we would have known nothing if someone hadn't leaked it and the media ran with it. Interestingly the media dropped the whole story after one day. I agree with rjay's post above

No, let's not pretend that this is some sort of contested issue. You can believe whatever you choose, I'll stick with history and fact.

We can always read history and find fringes and elements that go against the general theme. I think there needs to be great care taken ( read resistance) by placing too much emphasis on the exceptions and diminish what the history clearly is. In the case of the holocaust there is the indisputable facts -a repugnant regime with a documented, systematic policy of removing a race from the face of the earth. Nothing more nothing less.

It was fantastic to read and hear that Watts made the bottom 50 of the Bigfooty's world famous "Moffra's bottom 50". As in he's deemed to be the 35th worst player of 2017. Player 35 - Jack WattsPictured: Getting some head is an often misunderstood termIt may have escaped the Bay's attention, but there is a player in the AFL called Jack Watts.He's 196cm tall, quick, has sticky hands (I mean on the field you dirty people) and is a beautiful user of the ball. On paper he should be a star.Problem is, AFL is a contact sport and Jack deals about as well with contact as your average soccer striker.Above: almost as bad as Clayton Oliver, presumably mentored by WattsHe was taken at pick 1 in the 2008 draft, which hurts even more because every other pick 1 has been a superstar *cough*.Taken at pick 2 in the same draft was the walking marketing phenomenon NicNat who is the best in the AFL in his position when fully fit. Other stars taken in the top ten that draft include Vickery, Hurley and Yarren making it closer to a police line up than a draft class.It's also the year for notable hairstyles with some important inspirations:Julian "Not Convicted" AssangeSide Show BobTom Hanks in CastawaySide Show CecilJack Watts hasn't exactly set the world on fire since his career began in a gang-tackle at the MCG - he's been handy from time to time but in no way has lived up to the hype. Granted Melbourne's development program has screwed more teenagers in the past few years than a Justin Bieber party held in Seaford but Jack just doesn't play a modern, contested, desperate style of football. Seems like the perfect AFL X player though (unlike many their other early Melbourne picks who have become AFL ex players).He did play well against Essendon (as a Brighton Grammar Private Schoolboy he obviously has strong morals) and then the rest of the season happened. A 5 kick effort the next week, hamstring issues, then intensity issues. Some of his chases from round 18 onwards would have been better handled (and more entertaining) if performed by Wilde E Coyote. Showing all the intensity of fairy floss he was banished to the VFL for a couple of weeks before earning a recalla farewell game in the last round.It seems he's on the trade table to either Port or Geelong, which means he'll probably be the first Brighton Grammar product to set foot in that part of the world. Hope he's brushed up on his "youse" and "yeah-nah" in preparation otherwise the locals will have no idea what he's actually saying.Jack, good luck with your new home. With a solid pre-season I'm sure we'll see you back on your knees in no time.Votes this time will be counted, welcome to the Bottom 50 for 2017.