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Tyson is in the rehab group, Kent did some laps with Hulett and a bit of handball, didn't ask, get nothing anyway, club hasn't bothered ANB and Hannan the only other two in rehab, but they may as well be in main group Crossy works them over, another two hours of 'rehab' covering everything Frost all defensive craft no surprise Bugg midfield craft no surprise Highlight for me today Pedo testing his shoulder out late in the session with a bit of one on one with Crossy he survived Forwards heaps of goalkicking practice, including the worst ever effort I have seen from Watts, went sideways, to everybody's amusement, including his, of course he nailed every one after that And on that JKH again lined one up at about 45deg angle 55 out, through the middle, hit the netting behind the goal about half way up, Dion Johnstone then followed same result competition is a wonderful thing pics on Instagram next half hour

Is Tom Mac back in full training or still in rehab for his shoulder? Also I laughed at the poster who mentioned Lewis being the messiah. Hardly the messiah, just a damn good player who can hit a target! Glad our players are taking as much from him as they can.

Trengove, Tyson and vandenBerg "Trenners had a slow start to the pre-season..." McCartney trolling.

George on the Outer has prepared a "warts and all" analysis of each opposition team's prospects for 2017 ... WHERE IT CAN ALL GO WRONG - THE WARTS AND ALL ANALYSIS OF EACH TEAM'S PROSPECTS [PART 1] With all of the summertime hype in the football news at this time of the year, I thought it was appropriate to temper the high expectations of the fans (not that any of that would happen on Demonland) with some truly deep analysis of the opposition going into season 2017. What I discovered was that, as is customary, every team is “training the house down” and not a single club is dissatisfied with its trades and signings. So I decided to have a look at the real story of what can and should go wrong for each of the sides in 2017. The teams have been selected at random and here are the first five:- Geelong Dangerfield and Selwood. They alone got the pussies across the line in at least six games last year. Without that contribution they would surely have inhabited the lower reaches of the ladder. The Premiership years have now passed by the Cats and whilst they spent up big to lure Dangerfield back to his home territory (who wouldn’t?) the plan didn’t quite get them up last year. I can't see it sustaining them as their list goes into decline and with the likes of Lachie Henderson trying to hold the backline together, it simply isn’t the Geelong of old. Essendon Despite the AFL handing out more of their largesse, in the form of access to additional players and essentially first pick in the draft to the Bombers in last year's draft, so avoiding a collapse following the suspensions for drug taking offenses, few true fans of the game will be hoping for anything good for this club. With an ageing side with a good number of their players sidelined from the game for more than 12 months, they are coming from a long way back. A full forward who can’t find the goals, a captain who can’t find a Brownlow medal, and a club that can’t find its records, they most likely won't find a way to win too many games either. At least Worsfold had all the excuses in the world for poor performances last year but in 2017 there will be nowhere to hide and we might well discover why he was sacked by the West Coast Eagles. West Coast Speaking of the Eagles, I suspect that with the collapse of the WA mining boom, the same downward trend will also affect afflict West Coast. Despite a 16-6 record and a home final in 2016, the Eagles were thrown out in week 1. Probably the loss of Nic Natanui in Round 21 affected them the most his absence for most of season 2017 will continue to hurst. While he is next to useless around the ground, his height and leap give his mids plenty of the ball, so without that, how will an aging Priddis and an aged new recruit Sam Mitchell fare? With a good number of their home games against top 2016 sides, they won’t enjoy the easy ride they have had in years past. And maybe, just maybe the competition can afford to pay for eastern state umpires to control their home games. It will help the locals to understand the rules of the game, which is currently beyond them. Fremantle Oh how the mighty have fallen! The Dockers had been slated as probably Grand Finalists before the season began having made it to the big dance in 2015. But they finished with only 4 wins in 2016! It all went to pieces in Round 3 with the demise of Aaron Sandilands. Without the dominant ruckman (a beanpole of 211cm) the Dockers simply couldn’t get the ball. And it got worse in Round 5 as Nate Fyfe broke his leg again and sat out the season. Mundy also was injured and saw the writing on the wall, along with Ballantyne as they offered their services to anyone who would take them during the trade period. No takers, so they are stuck with Ross Lyon and his coaching plan of stopping the opposition at all cost, without being able to score themselves. Shane Yarran wasn’t keen to stay around either, and dumped on the club as he exited prior to Christmas. It must be a wonderful workplace although in Yarran's case who knows whether his next workplace is going to be much better. No Pavlich in 2017, and with an ageing/old list, there is little cause for redemption. Richmond The Toiyges never fail to disappoint. Despite making three finals series and getting bundled out without progressing any further, they still didn’t recruit the right types to help them take the next step, if there ever was one. Over the years they had built a list around half a dozen capable players, and then imported the likes of Houli, Grigg, Maric and Chaplin to enable them to reach finals. But they stopped building 3 years ago, and all that has happened is every one of these players is just older and slower, or not there anymore. They threw everything at Chris Yarran and Dion Prestia to keep the feral fans happy, but Yarran never made it to the field and Prestia is still running laps in late January. [To be continued ... ]

I think a lot of people underestimate St Kilda. They're developing with a good midfield and forward line, and even when Riewoldt and Montagna retire they'll still be very dangerous.

Beautiful

Tom McDonald on Jordan Lewis We've already got a couple training drills named after him, the Lewis kick drill You know the one, the one where kicks hit targets, I haven't done that before.

Carlise is a defender...Bruce a handy 'B' grader and McCartin yet unproven... Nick is still the man, with him gone or on the wane the pressure goes on the others. A Nickless forward line is hardly far more advanced than ours. I don't think they are bad I just think we are better positioned to make a good run at it.

Seriously though, I don't the club sees it that way. We're just lucky that a player of his talent and experience fell into our laps for virtually nothing. That rarely happens in this day and age.

Oops, I must admit I didn't. In that case the MFC and the AFL are dirty B******S!!

Good to see Pedo testing out the shoulder. Want him ready for round 1 consideration.

We swapped Kennedy for Toumpas and got a 2nd round pick for Howe, then within a year used a similar 2nd rounder to replace Howe with Hibberd. I'm hoping Kennedy has more to offer like he did at the start of 2016 but if he doesn't then I won't be comparing him directly to Howe. Howe wanted out, he wasn't going to perform for us, his play made that pretty clear. A 2nd round pick was a fair return for him.

Nowadays the standards are so low that an inarticulate buffoon can tweet his inner voice in half sentences, without any pause for reflection, and become the leader of the free world.

Like clockwork...

Like a lot of people on here I get quite bored with a lack of footy news and need something to read on smoko at work so I thought it was a good time to do my yearly topic. For this year I will be going into every team, and where they will end up Adelaide: I rate Adelaide they are high scoring and good to watch at this stage I think they will make a slight jump and sneak into the top 4 as I don't think they have quite reached their peak yet as a team. Was surprised to see on afl website they struggle with efficient kicking. top 4 Brisbane: while they will probably finish bottom next year I think they will be a little more competitive and will win an extra game or 2 I recall they had a bit of bad luck with injuries. 18th Carlton: Cant see them improving dramatically at this stage bottom 4 for me still in rebuild mode. 14-17th Collingwood: Buckley under a lot of pressure for finals which I don't think they are capable of bit of an overrated list and with a few players requesting trades it doesn't seem like a great team culture/relationship with coach and players so will tread water. 12th-14th Essendon: with the infamous players returning after their holiday will definitely win a few more games but don't think will make finals have them around 9th. 9th-12th Fremantle: They blew their chance against hawthorn and the team seems to have peaked a few years ago having said that they have dealt with injuries have them bouncing back up to 9th/10th. 9th-13th Geelong: while it is frustrating as heck to see them top up with a few players and they are back in contention but I cant see them falling top 4 finish. top 4 Gold Coast: Still think they are going through their growing pains have them treading water. 14th-15th GWS: Have them going all the way, kids are maturing and are really hitting their straps they will be a very dominant team for years to come thanks to their concessions. top 2 Hawthorn: As we found them out last season I can see others are catching on. Losing their best 2 players will hurt as they had valuable experience and cool heads will drop but may still sneak into top 4 maybe dropping as far down as 6th. 4th-6th Melbourne: Exciting times ahead at last and boy does it feel good while we are not there yet the bulldogs showed last year ANYTHING is now possible I really feel with the additions of lewis, hibberd, and melksham and natural progression the lazy and bad games will start to be ironed out and when were usually belted will become more competitive I have us sneaking in at 8th. 6th-9th North Melbourne: I rekon the roos are in real trouble now and are where we were at in 2007 with 4 of best and most experienced players gone and not a lot of kids coming through will start to feel the pain had their chance this season and blew it. 12th-15th Port Adelaide: while not a bad team they just don't seem special either have them treading water. 11th-13th Richmond: the tiges are feeling the pain of not doing a complete and proper rebuild like us and are paying for it have them treading water. 12th-14th St Kilda: maybe I'm being biased because I really hate the saints but when their senior players retire I cant see anybody stepping up to replace them in the short term so while they will still be competing for a top 8 spot they will crash and burn eventually. 6th-8th Sydney: Great List what else can I say top 4 finish is pretty much guaranteed at this stage. top 4 West Coast: A reasonable team but I cant see them getting much better Mitchell will be good for them treading water for me. 5th-8th Western Bulldogs: A very exciting team I can see them pushing for a top 4 spot good kids great senior players would be good to se murphy get a cup while they did great this year to pip the swans I don't they will repeat I can see them like hawthorn 2008 grabbing one early before reaching their peak and dominating for a few years could be gws biggest threat when gws really get going along with us of course ^ _ ^ 3rd-6th

I seem to be the only one at training today Spoke to Dom Tyson, running laps is Dom is Good pic on Instagram later Craft day again so lots of individual work

What about that says he is the Messiah?? Just saying he has great skills

Dom Tyson He’s really come on again. His running, his understanding of the game and where he positions himself – he’s become pretty close to an elite, first possession player. He’s very good around the ball and distributes it well. I think you’re going to see an incredible young player emerge in the next one to two years. Dom had an unfortunate setback just before Christmas, but he’s attacking his rehab in the same intensity as his pre-season. Bloody hell. This is a wrap.

relax xarronn, can't you recognise a bit of tongue-in-cheek fun

I see no problem or such an implication. I think it's finding the devil where none exists. The announcement is only stating the obvious order of things. The Merchandise stall will be open from early on and right until the end, whereas the players will only be available after training has concluded. Later posts attribute the imagined ills of this announcement to the AFL. Come on, since when have football clubs not had to raise money, it happens at all levels and all sports. In the end, if players were willing to play, coaches and support staff willing to provide their services and administrators willing to administer for peanuts, then costs would be much lower, but we would still like to see a large group of supporters in obvious support of the club by wearing its paraphernalia.

Don't fret, your days of shame are numbered.

Tommy Mc and Pedo do most things but they also do a bit extra obviously to test the shoulders out, both strapped up but that's normal for both Lewis is above everything else a team man, has impressed all with his team first attitude, think Tommy is taking the [censored] as well with his kicking drill remark about Lewis

I think the saints are still slightly ahead but will eventually overtake them. Picking up Lewis and Hibberd has really bridged that gap. Their forward line is ahead of ours right at this minute. Even without Nick they still have a good spread of goalkickers in Bruce, Membrey, McCartin. To close the gap we need Weideman and Watts to go up a gear next year and really step up. Also my money is for Tim Smith to add an extra dynamic and x factor to our forward line. The midfield is now even for me. We add Jordan lewis while they add Koby Stevens and Jack Steele who could potentially have a Dom Tyson 2014 like impact. Kid is a gun. I expect Oliver Petracca Brayshaw and Viney to really take our midfield to the next level if. Felt we lacked real leadership in the midfield when we played them the 2nd time, Lewis will help this. They will have Jake Carlisle and Nathan Brown down there this year. Both are pretty handy defenders but also both have their deficiency .I'm sorry to say but Tom Mac disposal and decision-making was putrid last year. Hopefully he improves that. I have Frost ahead of O Mac whom im still bit iffy about. Frost foot skills can be pretty poor at times also. This is where i was very surprised we didn't go for another experience defender during the off season for depth as i still think we are still bit green down back. If Tommy Mac goes down then we have to rely on someone like a Keilty to team up with Frost and Oscar.. *Cringe*. I have a feeling Dees and saints will play finals together in 2017.

I'll take a stab: Hitting a target.

Already been done Dino. They've named it "Sydney".

Ditto to that !! Cant believe the hypocrisy in the Hun from the editor down/ In the middle of last week the editor extolled people to "leave James in peace" while he recovers his health. On that very day he/she gave Allan Hird headline coverage.Then on Saturday 3 pages were devoted to Danny Corcoran's views on the victimisation of his good mate. All part of a concerted effort to stir the pot - and reignite the emotions that James is struggling to manage. It is the AFL that is showing compassion right now.. Fitzpatrick and McLachlan have worn damning criticism and innuendo in an effort to leave him "in peace.. Hird's mates are the people preventing the football world - and Hird himself - from moving on

I went for the full three hours today. One of my first times at training but there was a number of things that really impressed me and I'll outline what I say below. 1) At the beginning of training I was listening to Jade Rawlings telling a fellow spectator that they were trying to drill in to our players that the second they mark the ball they turn around to see there options, almost in the one move. This drill was practiced initially and was expected to occur naturally in every other drill that followed throughout the day with the idea of moving the ball quicker. 2) Skills were reasonably good for mid January and they trained quiet well. 3) Standout performers today for me; Melksham - THE standout for me, was running hard and fast and using the ball extremely well. Showed no sign of rust and off the back of what I saw today I am confident hes going to have an excellent year for us. Had a lot of the ball in the ball movement drills and didn't turn the ball over once, found a 2 really good long lead's 50m+ kicks to a nice hit up lead. Hogan - Was really really pushing himself all day and his body looks to have really matured. He finished the day marking against various opponents (Spencer, Hibberd, Tommy Mac and Weid) He was very very dominant in these and even one or two that he never should of got to, he managed to spoil. I think hes going to have a monster year. Ben Kennedy - Was hungry to show himself. Kicked a nice couple of goals in the match sim (ball movement sim), got the ball a lot. was running hard, creating and using it well. Hibberd - was excellent one on one throughout the day and can definitely hold his own against bigger bodies. His disposal was really nice. Hannan - was in the rehab group and he really really impressed me. He has a really nice kick on him, beautiful hands and is just one of those guys that looks super co-ordinated. From what i saw today he will play games for us in 2017. Lewis - the usual (god he's a beautiful kick) Max - trained really hard and pushed the group Watts - similar to max (also kicked a number of goals in the match sim (ball movement sim). Managed to get one of the few intercepts when playing for the outnumbered defensive team and its fair to say he enjoyed it. Salem - similar to Lewis, his kicking is absolutely delightful to watch. Quite sure the boys were calling him 'Sarge' not sure if thats a new thing or I was mishearing but seems appropriate. Weid - Wasn't able to win a 1v1 in the same company as i mentioned Jesse was in earlier at the end of training but impressed me throughout. He was using the ball very well in ball movement drills. 4) Negatives? There weren't many. I love christian petracca but it was interesting that at one point when it was his turn to play the defensive role he didnt put in much effort and Macca yelled at him "you are letting the team down by not defending to the best of your ability" It was obvious this [censored] him off a bit but it was good. The boys were really challenging him to get the most out of himself in the running as well. I think we will see the best of christian when he drives himself to get there more, which I have no doubt he will. Happy to answer any questions if you have any!

Speaking on SEN Cameron Mooney has revealed that he believes new Demon midfielder Jordan Lewis will have the most significant impact of the new recruits on their new clubs this year. Mooney says that "while the former Hawk is not at his peak anymore, his effect on the Demons midfield will be huge." MOONS TALKS THE NEW RECRUITS WHO WILL HAVE THE MOST IMPACT IN 2017 On what I've seen from him at pre season training (admittedly limited) and heard about him from others, I'm inclined to concur.

I believe that's what they call 'buckley's chance'

Wow, pretty definitive statement there Stu. I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I do believe in the benifits of a big preseason and being super fit going into round one. BK is good depth, will push hard for senior selection and provides a match up that some teams will struggle with. IMO our depth is still not what it needs to be, and BK with a tank offers a fair bit of versatility to the mix. If he ends up getting regular games, it won't say much for the likes of Kent, Jeffy, Vanders, etc whose spots he is vying for. The players know competition is increasing, I reckon BK might show a few up. You may well be correct, he might not be on our list next year, but I wouldn't put my house on it just yet.

Height is not the issue for Kennedy - look at the way Caleb Daniel played in last year's finals series. Surely he has put to bed the notion that there is even such a thing as 'too short to play AFL'. Daniel has made every recruiter and list manager in the league look foolish. Kennedy's limitations as a player are entirely about application, intensity, desire and the way he goes about it on match day.

2 players? Our Bernie isn't a young hand just quietly, and like Leigh and Nick, is still a valuable contributor. They have also got a far more advanced forward line. Take Nick out, they still have Bruce and Carlisle, as well as McCartin. They're not as bad as many on here think they are. And as someone mentioned above, we just don't beat them!

Love that Lewis is teaching the players how to kick better (and while we knew we needed it, its still a bit startling to hear it from a player). Lewis seems a humble guy with no airs and graces which (could have come from his 4 premiership medals). McDonald says: "He picks his places when he wants to talk, he doesn't want to be overbearing and feel like he's pushing himself on to other guys..." Can't wait to see him as an on-field general (along with Jones) marshalling the troops. I can see Lewis being the one who looks for potential momentum changes, has a quick word to Jonesy and nipping them in the bud - the lack of which cost us a few games last year. I can also see him keeping the players to structures and playing to team rules; again something we fell down on last year. Lewis and Jones will make a fine pair of generals, along with their apostles, Maxy and Viney For years we have yearned for a playing coach and to think that Lewis literally just fell into our lap!

This makes no sense at all. Collingwood get a best 22 player, we delist the player we received 2 season later, but we didn't lose out? Righto then...

You may be right RB. IMO he is average and too short. The powers that be got him from Collingwood because again IMO they thought he could improve on his performances with a fresh start. All my Pie supporter friends tell me he played the same way there and no one was disappointed when he left. PS Roos thought the Prince was a good get and we know how that turned out. No one is infallible Roos included.

Agree with this. Melksham is seriously underrated by many here.

I don't think their midfield is good enough.

Giants the best side by a mile, dogs, swans and cats should round out the tonight 4 hawks, crows, dees saints round out the top 8 port to seriously struggle, as will pies and tigers so three sacked coaches.

They use their contacts to arrange well paying jobs for players. Mostly it's above board and legal, sometimes it's a bit suspect. There's other reasons why players choose the Ammo's though. No drinking at games = far less abuse over the fence Can play with their mates from school Not getting paid means less pressure to be the star player Less violence than some country and suburban leagues Convenience - they can train once a week and play locally in Melbourne Quality facilities and medical support The other aspect is I don't think the Ammo's has a set points limit. The points system is one to keep teams equal in country and suburban leagues where by each player is assigned a points grade. Ex AFL player being the highest number of points. But after a year out of the AFL system playing in the Ammo's a players points will go down. It can be a useful step down year before heading to the bush.

That's just a little silly, dieter. Nothing we discuss on here changes a thing. It never has and probably never will. But it's a discussion forum none the less and we'll discuss anything and everything. It's the same on any discussion forum on the internet. And I wouldn't give Saty a hard time for being soft on Trengove - it was the way in which he lumped everyone in a s'sheep' who 'bleat the same thing' all the time. That's wrong and dismissive. No one was personal, no one said they didn't want Trengove to make it etc. Just that his speed, pace, whatever you want to call it, may be a hindrance to him getting back into the AFL side on a consistent basis. Some discuss it better than others but it's still a valid discussion. If he plays on a wing/half forward, will his lack of pace be exposed on the rebound, for example? We may be wrong, and I hope I am, but it's still a valid discussion point. We're not being critical or mean, we've just observed that this may be something that could hold him back in the short or long term.

I'd like to see Milkshake prove a few Druggie supporters wrong and have a good year. With a solid preseason he could become a valuable contributor each week. I like a bit of an underdog who gives his all.

I like to read discussion on the skills and merits of players such as Trengove, including foot speed. Thanks to those contributing to this. I chuckle at the irony of those that can't accept critical discussion about players and feel the need to use labels such as mob mentality, venting or bleating. I hope to get to training once or twice in the next couple of weeks and promise to not to get offended or upset if someone sees different on here. It's a footy forum FFS!

I thought Trengove looked more like he did in years one and two than 2016. He has his balance and composure back to its best. He was never quick, but he is/was a quick thinker. I have no doubt he has recovered from a career threatening injury. Our whole list is better than it was when he was drafted, so it won't be easy for him to knock the door down, but if he gets a run he won't be letting anyone down!

Interesting wording but I think it means they discussed him at selection but never had him in the emergencies or close enough that they were tempted to disrupt his continuity at Casey (which was already disrupted by injury during the year). He jumps out (both literally and metaphorically) at training as a guy to watch. Really good in the air and evasive at ground level. He's also made a big change to his body shape where he looks like a footballer now. I don't think he'll have the same impact and competition for spots should be greater but I think he's not far from where Hunt was this time last year. And the coaches went the safe option and didn't pick Hunt until he put some runs on the board in the VFL and he made his debut in round 4. I'm not sure Simon Goodwin will be as conservative as Roos was. Joel Smith is very close to my best 22 and if he plays well in preseason he might just get in.

Couldn't see Oliver mentioned already not a bad wrap for the kid! Clayton’s a high talent and as the summer’s unfolded, you notice him more and more in drills at training. His ground play and ability to extract the ball are quite extraordinary for a young player. At the moment, we’re just adding different levels of fitness to him and some education around what to do when he’s not near the ball. By gee, when he’s near the ball – look out! He wins it more often than not. http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2017-01-15/list-update-anb-oliver-and-pedersen

I know little of Joel Smith, other than seeing him play in one of the VFL finals, I think it was the Prelim, where he played probably his best game for Casey. He ran through the middle corridor several times, delivering long accurate passes. He showed pace and balance, coupled with good disposal setting up a few goals. He is a nice size and hopefully has some of the marking talent of his dad. I agree with Wiseblood and others on here, that he could be a real smoky for us. What is so different for us today, compared to a few years ago, is that we could probably name a dozen players who are not in our best 22, but who wouldn't be out of place in the team. The other factor that has changed from the Pre Roos days where we probably had 5-6 decent players on the list, is the massive amount of talent on the list and especially in our best 22. We just didn't have the amount of talented players we do now. We are a real chance to play finals and set this club up like the Hawks did and have a sustained period of success. We only need to add to our list here and there, to improve it and keep it strong, after a few leave each year. We should be grateful to PJ, Roos, Taylor, Viney, McCartney and all those who helped get us to this stage.

The problem is you (and me) see him for 2 hours on match day where he does some nice things and on other occasions he's looked slow and undersized (physicality) and gets exposed. The coaching group see him train 3 times a week and get to monitor his progression. They get to know the individual. His character, leadership, temperament, intelligence, willingness to learn, work ethic, etc. They see a player with flaws, but one who is continually improving and one they believe is on the way to becoming a backline stalwart for the next 10 years. Given their recent track record I'd be a nong to doubt them.