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This is, honestly, one of the stupidest posts, and arguments, I've ever seen.

No one said he is the messiah. It's just the anger that has been directed at him, by so called Demon fans, when at this stage he has done nothing to deserve it. He is contracted for another year. Has never said he is leaving. He is apparently dealing with a family crisis. Yet, is the butt of anger and derision from some, because he hasn't extended his contract in the time period they demand. FFS. I thought we were meant to support our players, until or unless they do something that should end that support. What has he done wrong to deserve the anger of some? As usual, if he stays and does well, those same supporters will be the ones fawning all over him.

It's that time of year again when we thank all those who have contributed to Demonland during the past season and all those who post here or simply visit and read without posting. We value your contributions and ongoing support - especially to Nasher who keeps us going on the technical side, to our moderators whose task is often thankless. Surprisingly, even when our team improves as it has this year, their job is still no more easy. Special thanks to our regular contributors, Whispering Jack, George on The Outer, The Oracle, JVM, KC from Casey and all others who have provided us with material and articles. We hope the Bulldogs' great win yesterday will prove an inspiration top our young team and that 2017 will be the year that we finally break through that ceiling and experience a taste of finals football. As the Doggies proved, once you're there, anything can happen. We also look forward to the inaugural women's competition and hope a finals appearance there will be a prelude for later in the year. As always, we are on the look out for new contributors who have something to say about the mighty Demons. If you have the talent or simply want something to say about the club in articlae form, please contact me via PM. Cheers, thanks again and keep your eye on the red and the blue. Andy

And for those that love stats. Boyd had played 34 games before this year's finals. An average of 11 per year. 9 in his first year with GWS. 25 with the Dogs. In none of those games was he considered to have been a star of the game. This year he played 11 of the 22 games. Form not injury was the main factor. He played a fair game in the ruck against Mummy and contested well, though again not starring in the PF. His breakout game was yesterday and happened to be the GF. He has not shown consistent good form in 3 years in the AFL. But on the strength of one good game, some on here hail him the new Polly Farmer/Tony Lockett rolled into one. FWIW, Jesse's stats are far more impressive and he didn't cost us $2m for the last 2 years.

Yesterday was the first time I'd seen it.

Leaving aside the current debate, there can be no argument as to the value of a good coach. 3 of the acknowledged best, in Bevo, Longmire and Cameron, got their sides into the last 4, with 2 of course in the GF. I hope Goody is a great Coach, because we need one.

The feeling is that Chris Scott will get an extension, but not all are supportive. As I keep saying, he'd be getting extended for his brilliant foresight in making sure Dangerfield was born in Geelong. Without him they'd have missed the finals again. I think he's capable of managing the finished article, but as a young coach coming in, he developed zero skills in building and developing a list, because it had all been done for him. I think he's on borrowed time, as you do.

OK - that's enough for you two. The bulk of posters and the moderators are sick of the abuse and derailing of threads. There will be no more warnings. If you want to carry on your feud do it by PM or better still not at all. The next instance of this will see you guys out of here for 3 months minimum. And on that note, just in case, let me wish you a happy new year.

The club Roos took over is significantly different to the club Beveridge took over. It's not even a fair comparison. What Beveridge took over is akin to what Goodwin is inheriting right now. A mid-tier team outside the 8 with moments of despair and horrific inconsistency. A coach can change a club but they still need the cattle. Luke Beveridge walking into Melbourne as senior coach at the end of 2013 does not win Melbourne a premiership in 2015.

As I sit in my backyard I can hear the music catching on the northerly wind from the western oval, a celebration in full flight. Last night cars paraded up and down my street in Yarraville honking their horns endlessly. Pedestrians sang themselves hoarse on the way home. The inner west was a cauldron of celebration and happiness, a community brought together by a football club and a collective dream realised. Having been born and bred in the west I couldn’t be happier for them and yet at the same time I can’t help but feel envious and a little sad. The bullies have always had a sense of place and represent their community with pride. Where do we stand? We have no real home, no place that is our and ours alone. This I believe holds us back in ways that are near impossible to measure, intangible if you will. I believe the most pressing off field issue we face is our lack of a true home. A place to gather and celebrate, to commiserate when we lose and to rub shoulders with our boys. A place where our supporters history and passion is embedded into the psyche of our players. For too long I have felt that a disconnect between the football club and the supporters exists and I believe this is due in part to our lack of a sense of place, our own turf.

Thanks for giving a bunch of Demon loving misfits a place to share our love (and sometimes endless frustration)! I think my connection to the MFC would be far weaker without Demonland.

Everyone has help, but you can't compare the armchair rides that a club like Sydney gets, or GWS, or the favorable draws of Collingwood/Carlton/Essendon etc The Dogs lost two key players to GWS, including their gutless captain who walked out on his team. What a lovely vindication to see his replacement dominate today.

Very confident hogan stays, announced soon, strong source

Also just read Dale Morris played with 2 fractures in his back. Wow what an effort. also any team that finishes 7th, beats WC in Perth then Hawthorn the GWS away and then the minor premiers deserves this win today. I hope our team can find this belief next year.

Special mention to KC from Casey, huge effort to provide Casey reports each and every week.

Mathew Pavlich hasn't made his name in a winning grand final, is Boyd better than him also? what about Nick Rewoldt? he played a great game but surely common sense says that you judge a player on a body of work, not just 1 or 2 games

Well that was just a great game of football. Both teams had a good hard crack at it, neither were overly aggressive outside the rules and the umpires were imperfect but not drastically so (more on that in a moment). Absolutely thrilled that the Doggies got up. This is what the game has been needing for years. Finally one of the "Have-Nots" of the game have managed to break through and win the flag. The fact that they beat both of the favoured children in Sydney to do it is perfect. It just shows that with the right development and team-wide buy-in it can be done without the many advantages enjoyed by the usual suspects. I really hope our entire squad was watching and taking the lesson to heart. On the Umpires, one thing I did note was their refusal to pay contact below the knee. There were three obvious incidents today that should have been called, the third of which resulted in a knee injury. Had they called the first two there's every chance that the third wouldn't have happened. And finally the real issue from the game: How the Hell did JJ get the Norm Smith? He was terrible today. Honestly, the only thing that could have made his numbers look good was a red and white jumper. I had him as one of the Doggies' worst due to his uncanny ability to pick out Sydney players with his kicks. I thought it was a toss-up between Boyd, Picken and Kennedy for BOG (I give it to Boyd). I have to conclude that this is yet another example of so-called "experts" having no feel for the game and being fooled by big numbers without actually looking at the impact on the game. 7 rebound 50's and 9 inside 50's sound great until you look at how many of those went straight to the opposition. OK, that's the rant done for the moment. Great win Doggies. Our turn in two years.

After watching the Dogs today, I'm done with anyone who isn't dedicated to the club, dedicated to the cause, and dedicated to getting us our next premiership. A player perpetually delaying their next contract doesn't interest me. Sign on or [censored] off. If you aren't 200% committed to the single goal of winning us our first premiership cup in however many decades, I don't want you at the club; it only serves as a disservice to the club and the rest of the playing group who are clearly on-board.

You never win a flag by copying anybody. Innovation and team commitment and cohesion are the go.

Steven Armstrong > Robbie Flower So many idiots.

That's a rubbish argument. Flower is the best wingman I've seen, but by your logic he can't be.

Sad? Nah, I'm happy. Last time they won one we won 5 of the next 6...

Your posting, and logic, just gets worse and worse.

Today marks 2 years since Rob Flower passed away. Gee that went quick! I reckon he would have loved yesterdays result. I know his favourite Current player was in fact Robert Murphy! Still saddened two years hence! I'l have one for you now mate! Charge your glasses all! Cheers! PF

I was at NM GF Breakfast, the banter throughout both crowd and guests about AFL creating GWS dynasty was very noticeable. I have no doubt GWS will win a flag before our Dee's do, and this will just peeve most of the heartland off. Cameron has been gifted a premiership quality team on a silver platter. On the other hand, Beveridge has built one in 2 years from committed and passionate players who worked their butts off for him. Cameron's coaching prowess will never be judged the same way. as for the Doggies - don't underestimate the influence of Macca on this list prior to Beveridge getting there.

I'm hoping next year is the year for Salem to really stamp himself at Senior level. I know it was VFL, but Salem in the first half of the prelim really did show what he's capable of. The silky skills of Trapper mixed with the hardness of Guy Rigoni. Calling it now. Most improved in 2017!

Who gives a stuff? Seriously. Boyd plays one decent game and we resort to analysing stats and debating who is better. What in God's name is the point? Someone wake me up when a decision is made. This thread is becoming a joke, if it hadn't become one already.

Western Bulldogs - 2016 Gm Opponent Rd R # KI MK HB DI GL BH HO TK RB IF CL CG FF FA BR CP UP CM MI 1% BO GA %P Totals 15 (11-0-4) 82 49 98 180 13 12 127 39 3 27 23 33 24 13 100 89 18 16 28 2 24 Fremantle 1 W 17 7 6 3 10 1 5 3 1 3 1 1 4 7 1 3 79 25 St Kilda 2 W 17 7 3 4 11 3 1 4 1 3 3 2 5 5 1 1 78 26 Hawthorn 3 L 17 8 4 6 14 1 2 5 1 2 1 4 2 5 9 1 2 1 71 27 Carlton 4 W 17 5 1 2 7 1 4 5 2 4 2 2 4 3 2 82 28 Gold Coast 17 W 17 5 3 6 11 1 1 8 4 1 1 1 2 6 5 2 1 86 29 St Kilda 18 L 17 4 1 4 8 1 13 1 1 1 2 2 1 6 3 1 2 86 30 Geelong 19 L 17 10 4 8 18 3 6 1 1 2 3 3 5 1 9 10 2 1 93 31 North Melbourne 20 W 17 2 1 2 4 5 4 2 1 2 2 1 3 90 32 Collingwood 21 W 17 3 2 10 13 9 5 2 2 2 2 1 9 4 1 88 33 Essendon 22 W 17 6 6 7 13 1 1 13 2 1 1 2 2 1 7 7 3 1 3 1 87 34 Fremantle 23 L 17 4 7 11 5 1 3 4 2 3 8 4 1 71 35 West Coast EF W 17 6 5 8 14 2 8 5 4 2 1 8 7 2 2 6 1 86 36 Hawthorn SF W 17 3 4 15 18 1 7 5 3 9 11 1 5 75 37 Greater Western Sydney PF W 17 2 1 12 14 21 2 1 4 5 3 1 1 9 6 3 90 38 Sydney GF W 17 10 8 4 14 3 2 14 4 2 9 6 6 2 1 86 [Top] Pity the stats don't support you. He is a 200cm forward/ruckman on $1m plus a year. No goals in first 3 finals. 3.5 kicks ave in first 3 finals. 3 marks ave in first 3 finals. 15 disposals in first 3 finals ( not bad ) Hitouts 12 ave in first 3 finals. Anyway he has a medallion in his best game.

Hogan has delivered 80 plus goals in 2 years, 2 top 10 finishes in the best and fairest, a rising star win, been Melbournes most marketable player and cost half of what Boyd has. Boyds played a really good finals series but he's still miles behind Hogan. the thing to remember is if Hogan kicked better we'd be talking about a 60-65 goal season in his second year, he's better than a heap of the champion key forwards over the last 20 years in their first 2 years. Kudos to Boyd for playing well in a final but if you look at the body of work rather than 1-2 games it's laughable that they're even being compared.

Clint, your eyes are usually better than that. Thank god you don't work in an emergency department. Many of you patients would be waking up in the coffin. Going up against the most brutal ruckman in the league for virtually the entire (PF) game, when Roughead went down last week....and then at least halving most contests....was all heart. Most of the time, it's not about licking the ice-cream. Boyd's effort and output in the PF was massive; but simpletons often just look at goals and possies. I backed JJ for the norm, but in reality, Boyd was the biggest difference on GF day. No Boyd, no flag. The best 10 million dollar investment of all time. Maybe Buddy might end up being the worst?

Remember the list that Roos inherited, I do it was a shambles and he had to spend the next couple of years ridding us of the deadwood. You can say what you want about Roos but he has regenerated our list and we are where we are at the moment because of him, the last lot will go this year, I believe. Roos had to rid us of 50 years of mediocrity, apart from some patches of finals, which we were never a realistic chance to win, we have been garbage. The Bullies had some good players and played finals a few years ago, the culture at that club was far superior to ours, whose isn't, and as we'd been destroying our list they'd been building theirs. I'm excited by our list, Pertacca can be our Bont, Hunt can be our JJ, Hogan can be our Boyd, Max is better than Roughy and we have a pretty exciting bunch of kids in the midfield with Oliver, Viney, Dom and Brayshaw capable of going to the next level. Roos has left us in good shape and now it's up to Goodwin to deliver.

Sorry to disappoint you tu and you can believe it or not but i do not have the slightest twinge of jealousy hiding anywhere.

I agree never been so emotionally on board since Swans won in 2005 to break their 72 year drought. Loved the Dogs effort and toughness around the ball, I loved the way Beverage spoke and behaved after winning the big one almost Presidential, bought a tear to the eye. Loved every minute of the game, Swans were beaten but unbowed. I hope that our current batch of players were watching closely, anything is possible if you have the talent and the belief. Magical!!!

i just dont see this great list that we are supposed to have. i definitely cant see the list as being better than the dogs. we have some potential for sure but it tails off pretty quickly and the few that are getting talked up really havent done much yet

Finally justice prevails. Maybe there is a footy God!!? Without doubt that's the best finals campaign I've ever seen at VFL/AFL level. So glad GWS got booted and there was no pee and poo running around out there today. What a refreshing change! Did we help The Cats and the Doggies out when we beat the Hawks first up after their 9 in a row? Was it the Demons who showed them the way and gave them a little sniff, some hope, the extra belief and what needed to be done to put the Dawks away? Boyd or Picken were BOG/Normy for mine though. JJ's second half was better but missed too many targets in the first half IMO.

When it's announced he has extended his contract with us, probably next week, some posters on here are going to feel very silly, given some of the ridiculous comments that have been posted by them..

Oh FFS can we stop copying other sides for once and build our own destiny. First it was the 'Geelong Style' under Bailey and then the play the boundary 'like Collingwood' under Neeld. Fk everyone else.

Nup, not remotely sad. Didn't even feel happy for them, I felt happy *with* them. I felt a part of that victory like I never have for a team outside Melbourne. Great day, great game. And for me, it was the first sign I've seen in a long time that you don't need to be a power club to win the flag. It brought the dream to life for me.

What?! I'll put it down to you being one of those who is deliberately downplaying Hogan's ability to soften the blow of him leaving because, otherwise, I can't fathom how anyone could believe that. And, before you start, I thought Boyd was totally deserving of the North Smith today. Incredible performance.

Boyd is a [censored] forward and average ruck. He played his best game in a grand final, so good on him, but he's never been better than ok in the other 36. Hogan shits on Boyd as a footballer and only a simpleton would think otherwise.

Really? I watched the game with a Sydney supporter and even she agreed that the umpiring was fine. Did not influence the game whatsoever.

The problem is clearly on Hogan's end and his inability to commit to us. The MFC would obviously be saying, what the hell do you actually want from us at this point? Short contract? Long contract? Not enough money? Everything points to the same conclusion: deep down, in his heart, Hogan isn't committed to the club and the club are becoming, rightfully, fed up with the games.

No. Doggies picked him up in the rookie draft after all 18 clubs overlooked him. He has every right to owe the dogs his life. Especially after today. His greatful for the opportunity, money is just a bonus. Nothing to do with the pokies mate.

You can say it for as many years as you like 'mo' but you would still be wrong. Your explanation is way too simplistic and doesn't take account of where the clubs were at the time the respective coaches took over.

How [censored] refreshing was that? Pretty bloody nice when it isn't Hawthorn, or a club who has everything handed to them on a silver platter. A win for the battlers and there needs to be more of this in years to come if the AFL actually wants to grow, rather than remain stagnant with the same big clubs winning every [censored] year. Maybe the AFL will perk up and actually realise that ALL teams getting to experience success rather than just the rich clubs is actually the best thing for the comp. Nobody wants to see an endless stream of rich clubs buying themselves a premiership every year. This is a win for the blue-collar clubs of the league who don't have a silver spoon in their mouth.

As for dreaming, I have just been reflecting on what happened in the three years after the Bulldogs won their last premiership. May history repeat itself.

Get your hand off it Tyson. Your talking about a club that had their captain leave for GWS, a Brownlow Medalist looking for greener pastures in Ess. They then get a coach that put belief in his boys to turn this club around when it seemed people were leaving. Amazing effort from a battling club, and you say this dribble. Against a side that the AFL look after, one year they get Tippett, the next year Franklin, had COLA for god knows how long. And the Dogs beat this side with a hell of a lot of injuries throughout the year. Simply amazing, play with heart for their club and coach.

Other than family health, EVERYTHING.

7 of today's Swans side and 5 of today's Dogs side were rookies. My point is you turn over your list with more chances to improve by getting rid of players who cannot assist the list.