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Main session is Friday but dropped in to see if any evidence of lingering after-effects from Darwin. Of note (and in no particular order): Vince jogging slow paced laps. Interestingly upon completion looked down at and felt his right calf, rather than his shin; Omac - handball drills with Daniel Cross, walked a couple of laps (no limp), compression bandage on left ankle, Wagner - participated in full training. Has a compression bandage over quad / mid hamstring region but nothing on his knee ??; Pedersen, JKH and Salem joined in main training, Lumumba - jogged laps; Jayden Hunt didn't participate in the main ball movement session, undertook 15-20m kick to kick with Crossy but was moving freely. Everyone else seemed to be there (although I don't recall seeing ANB but wasn't especially looking for him either). So all in all, a pretty healthy list for this time of year. Spirits were high but couldn't really catch any of the banter in the stiff westerly breeze!

I'm not sure I share your view. I doubt they can emotionally get away from it being "Essendon". Essendon couldn't play finals, Essendon were fined, Essendon lost draft picks and Essendon players were booed, because they played for Essendon. Essendon lost their president, CEO, list manager and coach due to a reckless injection program. Heppell is suing Essendon. Essendon can't tell these players with absolute certainty what was injected into them. Essendon cannot guarantee, no matter how unlikely, that these players' children won't be born with two heads. And as far as Worsfold goes they may not feel the need to punish him, but I also doubt they've formed much of a bond or loyalty to him.

Mate...... Its dodo. He will want an early first round pick for Hibberd, and 2 x first round picks for Hurley. Just for once, lets do the sensible thing for our club, tell both essendrug, and the afl to go to hell, and do everything we can to get both of these blokes for free. Anything less would be taking the pissant option yet again. If the law is there, lets use it.

On a lighter note, perhaps the Demonland page sponsors could help?! Is it just me or is the internet becoming more pervasive than ever.

Melbourne supporters do owe old Joe and Don Scott some fair gratitude. Without these two guys, we'd all be following the Dorks or some other gastly almalgimation, not sitting on the cusp of a resurgent, competitive Demons team. At the time I was actually pro-merger because I was so desperate for that success, but in retrospect I think I'd rather the club go bankrupt and team be forcefully relocated to the Gold Coast or Tasmania or something similar to Fitzroy than merge with any other existing team. My view is that at the very least old Joe deserves some dignity and respect from Melbourne supporters from what he did and tried to do for the club. I don't recall the politics which resulted in his departure from the presidency, but I think at his core he's one of us - a die hard, heart beats true for the red and blue type of guy.

It's more complicated than that. For some, even if they do feel duped, they'd feel duped by Hird and his cronies, not by "Essendon". "Essendon" to the players would mean the jumper they play for, the fans that love them, the good wins they've had, the fans that back them. For others, perhaps Hibberd, perhaps they do feel duped by "Essendon", but don't feel the need to punish Worsfold, the other players or the new administration - all of whom are totally innocent, by totally burning them. I don't think it's as black and white as some would make out.

If it was Chris from Camberwell I wouldn't be too concerned.

THE SAVING GRACE by Whispering Jack I have a feeling that whoever it was at the AFL who framed the draw for the Round 17 fixture might have a good sense of humour. After kicking off proceedings on Thursday night with an absolute ripper of a game between two teams that might well end up facing each other again on the last Saturday in September, the rest of what's on offer is pretty much rubbish. The game at Adelaide Oval involving a resurgent Collingwood could be of interest now that the Magpie faithful have declared their team a sure thing to make the finals but most of the games in the round are complete mismatches on current form. Of course, when the draw was prepared at the end of last season, it was difficult to predict exactly how the teams would be faring in the midst of winter in the year to come or that the top eight would be virtually set in stone barring some sort of major calamity. Still, you have to admit, there is a dull, colourless and boring feel about the eight match ups on show from Friday night to Sunday evening. However, there is one game that shapes up as a possible exception among all of the drudgery, a game that presents itself as a possible bookend to the opening game of the round and I'm not talking here of the potential farce at the Gabba starting at 4.40pm. Rather, I allude to Sunday's clash at Etihad Stadium between St Kilda and Melbourne, which unlike their last meeting 11 weeks ago, is a Saints home game. The contest shapes up as the AFL's saving grace for the weekend. The two sides are sitting among a group of four teams on seven wins and three games behind eighth placed North Melbourne but with very little chance of making the finals unless they win most (if not all) of their remaining games and the Kangaroos' free fall continues. Neither outcome is particularly likely to result in a change to the makeup of the current top eight. The Saints hit a high a fortnight ago when they fought out a gutsy win against Geelong (who themselves have put in some flakey performances of late) but have been disappointing in their more recent outings, losing to lowly Gold Coast by 40 points and coming close to joining the Demons last week as an ignominious loser to the depleted Bombers of 2016. They also have suffered some real poundings in their interstate games this year. Melbourne on the other hand, rebounded in Darwin last week against the Dockers after losing consecutive games to the finals bound Swans and Crows. They seem to be enjoying the better form of this week's contestants.However, that was exactly the case when the teams met earlier in the year and the Dees started out as firm favourite to break their then 12 game losing streak against the Saints which stretches all the way back to the 2006 Elimination Final when Nathan Jones' career was in its infancy. It turned out that St Kilda was the superior side at their last meeting despite Jesse Hogan's almost single handed seven goal haul up forward. Max Gawn had a rare down day in the ruck against Tom Hickey, the Saints defence and midfield were dominant with their pace and the Demons lacked the poise and discipline to hold the Saints' playmakers. After being in doubt to play all week, Nick Riewoldt was virtually untouchable producing a team killing virtuoso performance. There were no excuses from the Melbourne camp but it was conceded that having an unbalanced and seemingly tired-looking outfit on the park after a six day break was unhelpful. So what will Melbourne produce to make up for that lacklustre effort from earlier this season? The answer to that lies in the changes to the team's structure since that last performance. The defence in particular is more streamlined and far less stodgy - they will not be outpaced as they were last time - and the leakage down back has been stemmed. The forward line won't be relying on Hogan alone. Jack Watts, Jeff Garlett and Dean Kent are all dangerous in front of goal. Max Gawn will be eager to prove that he is deserving of his 2016 reputation as one of the two top ruckmen going around and the midfield, which is now ranking third in contested possessions will relish the contest. And someone will be assigned to make sure that Riewoldt is not permitted to roam around the stadium doing as he pleases. Melbourne to win by 29 points. THE GAME St Kilda v Melbourne at Etihad Stadium Sunday 17 July 2016 at 3.20pm HEAD TO HEAD Overall St Kilda 90 wins Melbourne 118 wins 1 drawn At Etihad St Kilda 7 wins Melbourne 3 wins Past five meetings St Kilda 5 wins Melbourne 0 wins The Coaches Richardson 4 wins Roos 0 wins MEDIA TV - Channel 7 Fox Sports 3 Live at 3.00pm RADIO - Triple M 3AW THE BETTING St. Kilda to win - $2.00 to win Melbourne to win - $1.82 THE LAST TIME THEY MET St. Kilda 20.15.135 defeated Melbourne 15.6.96 in Round 6, 2016 at Etihad Stadium Melbourne started favourite to beat its long-running St Kilda hoodoo and got off to a solid start when it led by almost three goals halfway through the opening term. However, the wheels fell off as the Saints took over in the midfield and ran the Demons ragged. They looked slow and indecisive and but for a great individual effort from Jesse Hogan and some accurate kicking for goal, would have gone down by a far greater margin. THE TEAMS MELBOURNE B: Sam Frost, Tom McDonald, Neville Jetta HB: Jayden Hunt, Oscar McDonald, Jack Grimes C: Christian Petracca, Bernie Vince, Dom Tyson HF: Jeff Garlett, Jack Watts, James Harmes F: Aaron vandenBerg, Jesse Hogan, Dean Kent FOLL: Max Gawn, Nathan Jones, Jack Viney I/C: Angus Brayshaw, Matt Jones, Ben Kennedy, Mitch White EMG: Tomas Bugg, Billy Stretch, Josh Wagner IN: Angus Brayshaw OUT: Billy Stretch (omitted) ST KILDA B: Jarryn Geary, Sean Dempster, Dylan Roberton HB: Jack Newnes, Sam Gilbert, Leigh Montagna C: Maverick Weller, David Armitage, Jack Billings HF: Blake Acres, Nick Riewoldt, Nathan Wright F: Tim Membrey, Josh Bruce, Darren Minchington FOLL: Tom Hickey, Luke Dunstan, Jack Steven I/C: Jade Gresham, Daniel McKenzie, Sebastian Ross, Jack Sinclair EMG: Luke Delaney,Cameron Shenton, Eli Templeton IN: Jack Billings, Jack Sinclair OUT: Luke Delaney (omitted), Shane Savage (concussion) SAM THE STATS MAN'S ROUND UP - 2016 TO DATE BRAYSHAW Angus MFC 3 games, 3 goals, CSFC 5 games, 2 goals - brilliant youngster has had his season blighted by injuries including concussion issues that kept him out for several weeks. BUGG, Tomas MFC 14 games, 2 goals - hard and driven, he has proven a real pest when running with opponents but his form has tapered off a little lately. DAWES, Chris MFC 4 games, 1 goal, CSFC 3 games, 7 goals - was hampered for some time by a calf injury and has failed to impress on return. DUNN, Lynden MFC 4 games,1 goals, CSFC 4 games, 0 goals - suddenly found himself out of favour and banished to Casey where he was injured. Performed well there when he returned. FROST, Sam MFC 10 games, 4 goals, CSFC 3 games, 0 goals - the experiment as a forward failed and he is now settling down as a defender where his pace is outstanding. GARLAND, Colin MFC 6 games, 0 goals, CSFC 7 games, 1 goal - like Dunn has found himself on the outer in the overhaul of the team's defence but has been pushing for selection with the Scorpions. GARLETT, Jeffrey MFC 11 games, 20 goals, CSFC 2 games, 0 goals - not as consistent as last year but proved a fortnight ago how dangerous he can be near goal. GAWN, Max MFC 15 games, 12 goals - declared his ambition to be among the leading AFL ruckmen early and has made his case. Is close to All Australian selection. GRIMES, Jack MFC 1 game, 0 goals, CSFC 9 games, 5 goals - has been diligent in his application and was very good on return to the AFL in Darwin last week with 32 possessions at 90% efficiency. HARMES, James MFC 13 games,12 goals, CSFC 1 game, 0 goals - improving beyond expectation and now reveling in a new role down back. HOGAN, Jesse MFC 15 games, 38 goals - hard working, talented and strong, the youngster is well on his way to becoming an elite key forward in the competition. HULETT, Liam CSFC 10 games, 15 goals - developing tall forward who would not be far off a promotion. HUNT, Jayden MFC 12 games, 1 goal, CSFC 1 game ,1 goal - the dashing defender continues to improve rapidly from week to week and is surely the next Demon rising star nominee. JETTA, Neville MFC 14 games, 0 goals - steady, reliable and experienced, he gives the defence the extra steel it needs. JONES, Matthew MFC 6 games, 0 goals, CSFC 3 games, 0 goals - pacy footballer who had a good start to the season, suffered a setback with injury after four games but has returned to form with a vengeance. JONES, Nathan MFC 15 games, 9 goals - shows unrelenting strength and his leadership is often underrated on the AFL scene. KENNEDY, Ben MFC 14 games, 12 goals, CSFC 1 game , 0 goals - has put in some excellent performances as a small forward who occasionally runs around the middle of the ground. KENNEDY-HARRIS, Jay CSFC 2 games, 2 goals - broke down with a severe hamstring injury in Casey's first game and lasted one more after he returned before injury struck again. KENT, Dean MFC 14 games, 21 goals - with his injury woes behind him, Kent is becoming a valuable member of the emerging Demon forward set up. KING, Max ® CSFC 10 games, 5 goals - the club is being patient with the tall developing forward/ruckman but, after three years at the club, needs to show more at Casey if he is to hold a spot on the club's lists. KING, Mitch CSFC 1 game, 0 goals - the big man broke down with an ACL injury early in his opening game down at Casey. LUMUMBA, Heritier MFC 5 games, 0 goals, CSFC 1 game, 0 goals - returned from post season surgery in resulted in hot and cold form and more lately has been sidelined with concussion issues. McDONALD, Oscar MFC 8 games, 0 goals, CSFC 5 games, 0 goals - slowly developing youngster who is getting games into his legs as a key defender. McDONALD, Tom MFC 15 games, 1 goal - strong key position player who has produced some outstanding performance i MELKSHAM, Jake - suspended as a result of the ASADA supplements investigation and CAS decision. MICHIE, Viv ® MFC 3 games, 1 goal, CSFC 7 games, 4 goals - has shown sparkling form in the VFL but failed to show enough to keep his spot when promoted. NEAL-BULLEN, Alex MFC 2 games, 1 goal, CSFC 9 games, 5 goals - another who has excelled with the Scorpions but has yet to grab his opportunities at the highest level. NEWTON, Ben MFC 2 games, 1 goal, CSFC 9 games, 6 goals - came back from a long injury lay off and pushed for promotion to the AFL but was soon back at Casey. OLIVER, Clayton MFC 10 games, 4 goals, CSFC 2 games, 0 goals - the hard nosed teenager who won a NAB Rising Star nomination on debut in Round 1 is being nicely nursed through his debut season. PEDERSEN, Cameron MFC 7 games, 5 goals, CSFC 3 games, 2 goals - a regular forward/relief ruck fixture in the early part of the season, but has been missing after a drop in form followed by injury. PETRACCA, Christian MFC 10 games, 7 goals, CSFC 3 games, 3 goals - has yet to set the world on fire but is showing some very clear glimpses of star potential. SALEM, Christian MFC 7 games, 1 goal, CSFC 1 game, 0 goals - was starting to shows some great skill and class before succumbing to a thyroid problem from which he is only slowly recovering. SMITH, Joel ® CSFC 5 games, 1 goal - the young rookie who switched sports from basketball was showing promising signs with the Casey Scorpions before an groin injury struck. SPENCER, Jake CSFC 8 games, 6 goals - seems destined to be the understudy to Max Gawn. Has dominated at VFL level but it seems the selectors have not really favoured having two big men in the line up. STRETCH, Billy MFC 10 games, 2 goals, CSFC 2 games, 0 goals - continues to make an exciting progression, showing speed and evasive skills. TERLICH, Dean CSFC 11 games, 5 goals - remains well down back of the queue for selection at AFL level. TRENGOVE, Jack MFC 3 games,1 goal, CSFC 8 games, 5 goals - made a hard earned return to senior ranks after more than two years out. Still rusty as one would expect. TYSON, Dom MFC 14 games, 8 goals - has played some excellent football on his return after a few troughs in form last year. VANDENBERG, Aaron MFC 8 games, 5 goals, CSFC 1 game, 0 goals - the big-bodied midfielder's progress was stalled by an ankle injury and is only now returning to last year's form VINCE, Bernie MFC 14 games 5 goals - an important player in the Demon line up who recently re-signed in a great show of faith VINEY, Jack MFC 14 games, 7 goals - started like a house on fire as a hard, smart and tough on baller and has come back to the field a little recently but is still very dangerous. WAGNER, JOSH ® MFC 11 games, 0 goals - mature aged rookie has been a revelation in defence with his smart play and neat delivery of the football. WATTS, Jack MFC 15 games, 30 goals - is having his best season yet as a dangerous forward who also pinch hits in the ruck when Max takes a rest. WEIDEMAN, Sam CSFC 8 games,17 goals - has shown potential as a future key position forward as is being given plenty of time to develop in the VFL. WHITE, Mitch ® MFC 1 game, 0 goals, CSFC 11 games, 2 goals - the hard working defender was finally rewarded with a second time elevation off the rookie and impressed in Darwin.

I think Chris has SEN on speed dial and the helium up high.

It's funny reading concerns about a player when those expressing those concerns have virtually no clue of Hibberd as a player. Hibberd is a very very good and tough player, who would immediately make our team and defence better. Be thankful if iwe land him.

I feel like Jack has epitomised the club throughout his career. Young and underprepared, tentative, unsure and now more hardened and smarter. As Melbourne supporters we identified with Jones more as a warrior amongst duds, be he was the exception, not the norm. We as a club and he as a player still have development left but are getting towards where we want to be. Always was a favourite but like many others I had lost a lot of faith. Interestingly, friends of mine who play in the league have always rated him, even through his poor form. They were adamant that he would become not only good but a star. Makes me a little excited to see how much further he can actually go. He has always been the smartest and most skilled player on our list, but now is able to use these weapons effectively. He is such an important player going forward.

Hahaha. What about what the WORLD ANTI DOPING AGENCY said?????????? I dont read the herald sun, at all, ever. And you feel sorry for them? Wow, words fail me. They deserve ZERO sympathy. They only deserve to be raped of their players.

Whole club should have been relegated or banned from competition, as per any team caught doping in most other sports.

That's Jess Hogan. He's the common denominator at FF and has no limit.

Lets not forget that this will be the team next year that picks up 10 to 12 ready made AFL players for nothing next year. On top of that they will get through trade another 3 or 4 ready to go AFL standard players in transfers from other clubs, and those players will be ready to go. On top of that they will get so many top draft picks, and by the end of this year the two they got in 2016 draft will be well credentialed. This will be without the AFL lifting their clout in 2017 like they did in 2016 directing certain players to help out, which they will again. I'll say now that they will field by mid season next year an entirely different player group. and some people on here still have a degree of sentiment for them. No place in footy for sentiment.

Can't wait for this match. We're a better side, but we're competing against Etihad as much as St Kilda. Come on MFC, between last year and this years games, we have had more than enough practice against these jokers to now show them who we really are. Get the job done!

The fact that so many are willing to return to Essendon validates your view. As you say, it's not black or white,

Name change required. Hereafter should be known as Cubic Zirconia Joe.

The best.

I could get use to players wanting to be traded to us.

Offer the cheating scum NOTHING. F*&k them, and stuff their idiot supporters. Take him for free.

When you owe the bank $30,000 it is your problem. When you owe the bank $300,000,000 it is the banks' problem.

Imagine the feeling of knowing you owe people and businesses that kind of money. Sheesh. I get edgy when I owe someone $5 bucks and it's taken me a day to pay them back.

Another aspect of Jack that hasn't garnered much attention is his durability. His mental resilience is apparent by virtue of what he's been through. But physically, he's barely missed a game. This makes him an even more valuable player to have on the list. Long may it remain the case!

Membrey is not a big, only 188cm. White or Wagner will take care of him... Frost and Tommy Mac to take care of the other 2.

On that note, dredging up players limitations from 3-4 years ago is meaningless. Matt Jones, Grimes and Trengove have been through re-education, role changes and injury recovery and deserve to be assessed on their output capability today, not some deficiency from 2012 or 13. IMO, the only evidence that's relevant is their games in 2016 and, aside from his work at Casey which may or may not translate to AFL, it's one good game by Grimes so far.

The other thing I think people forget is you have to potentially trade with these other clubs every single season, trying to screw another club might work this year but next year they will remember and not so likely to trade. I think the Dees have definitely tried for win win (win for both clubs) trades for the players they have wanted in recent years. I expect if we do go after either it will in a way we benefit by getting the player and Ess receive a fair and reasonable compensation whether we like it our not. Personally I'd like them (if they are wanting to come) to walk for free but I would be amazed if that actually occurred.

Hes a proven gun half back, and will free up the likes of Salem and Hunt for possible midfield roles. We arent there yet and we need all the good players we can get.

There's no question that Hibberd is best 22 at MFC, but I pose the question. If Goodwin didn't have the relationship he had with Hibberd and Melksham, would they be the type of player that you see as urgently addressing a specific need at MFC? I don't.

Chris from Camberwell is completely insane...

Funnily enough, I was having coffee with a good friend of mine todaywho is a Bomber fan, and he actually said the same thing....rates Hibberd higher than Melksham and reckons we paid slight overs, said that it made sense that we paid slight unders for Hibberd. I know, an Essendon fan that is reasonable, hard to believe

The same regime that Nathan Jones, and to some degree Jack Watts, have been through? Which is the same regime that Garland and Dunn have been through? All players (that are left on our list) that went through that dark time have had the opportunity over the past 3 years to consolidate a spot in our best 22. Some have taken it, some haven't.

We had them beaten in rnd 11 last year with 45secs on the clock. Hubris, and a comedy of errors by Gawn (tapped the ball forward rather than drop it at his feet), Viney, Cross and Toumpas allowed them an easy goal. So we know we can beat them, at Etihad. Despite AA form since that game, Max has not been able to get the job done vs StK in the two games since at either the G or Etihad. The whole team needs to be desperate to redeem the 2015 rnd 11 calamity. Max especially will want to redeem that game and lowering his colours to Hickey earlier this year. Max will bring it home!!

Because there is no "we" in this discussion, the only person who can initiate the walk for free scenario is Hibberd, and he probably won't for the reasons outlined. I doubt the MFC gives a fat rat's clacker about how it hurts Essendon. I sure don't. The MFC has to look after the interests of the player it is trying to recruit. I'm sure the MFC would love him to come for free and will probably say to him "how about it?", but at the end if the day if the club wants Hibberd, it should be prepared to pay as it would under normal circumstances. The responsible thing to do is start preparing for that scenario now so we are ready for it, and worry about the cheaper path when that opens up, if it does.

After everything essendon put these players through, if they don't lose at least 1 player for nothing I will spew, makes me sick watching them all recommit to the club, I hate essendon so much

You know little of what you're talking about. Fitzroy people fought for their club till the end and a few players were moved to Brisbane in a piecemeal response by an AFL run by an ex St Kilda player ( one of the least successful clubs anywhere in any competition ). Fitzroy was punished because unlike South Melbourne they didn't fold like a pack of cards. I met Alan Aylett who was VFL president when Sydney was set up a few years ago and asked why they sent South to Sydney and he said ' you should have seen their books ", and I thought your ex club is North Melbourne for goodness sake. Fitzroy members at the time voted for a merger with North Melbourne and the commission rejected their wishes and packed them off to Queensland thousands of miles away instead. By the way Fitzroy at the time had 8 premierships ( 2 more than Geelong at the time ) so really when you think about it AFL/VFL premierships mean sweet F all.

Poor old Joe. With his financial experience I'm sure the MFC can find him a spot in the accounting dept. Until then i hope he has a few coins behind the couch and floating around in the Tarago. 13 Kids should make the centrelink money worthwhile. We might have to clean out the "good room " at the Gatwick for the Gutnicks.

Erhm the HS has been the biggest Ess advocate possible?!

Yeah well Abe, I am a man of contradictions!

I have been a big Watts fan ever since he started, A very very nice young man as well, the type if your daughter came home with him you would be very sure he would look after her! That from me is a big accolade! In this world of over the top Footballers who are full of themselves he has a good moral compass I believe! And, ah also, he can play a bit!

None of the 12 will do that. Bank it. They will not disrespect essendon like that even after what they have been through.

Hi Guys, We are back for episode 41 to discuss the sweltering win against the Dockers and then cool down with a chat to young jet Billy Stretch (Glove's hero) http://bit.ly/29M8zdk

A Jewish saying. "Bankrupcy is when you put your money in your trouser pockets and give your coat to the creditors."

before or after jabs?

I know I should leave this alone but something just doesn't sit right with me when people make these sort of comments. It's like the bully in the school yard who picks a fight, loses and then wants to be friends. WGO I have no problem with critique. What I hate is "gave the kid hell". You've recognized you were wrong in your judgement (as we've all been on issues) and I just hope next time a player disappoints you you'll stick to critique and refrain from "giving them hell". You'll have lots of opportunity to practice the skill - as we all will. But that's just me. Credit to you for honestly stating your position. BTW, friggin fantastic that he's found his way and looks set for a meaningful second half of his career with us.

3 down 2 to go.

Unlikely to leave WA unless he can bring his hairdresser and I don't think Priddis will allow that to happen.

Where's that defender now when we need him most?

That's all well and good, but if Riewoldt is running around doing as he pleases like he did last time then I want Tom McDonald to be wearing him like a glove. It's no different to having a tagger.