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I missed the game, but saw we won so I thought I'd better jump on Demonland to see how awful we were. You guys never fail to disappoint!

Is there anything he can't do?

OK, that was a hell of a long drive back from the ground. I was at the scoring end, so missed a lot of what happened at the other end of the ground, including two goals to Watts apparently. Anyway: There was a solid three goal wind blowing to my end. It was pretty consistent for the whole game. We were three down at quarter time, level at half time, three down at 3/4 time... The big difference is that the doggies couldn't score against the wind. One of the biggest issues I had with our team today is that they didn't seem to have any idea of what the wind was doing to their kicks. We saw both kickers over-hitting passes because the wind caught them and targets missing the ball because they couldn't read the drop when it was kicked into the wind. The Doggies read the flight much better than we did. One of the biggest positives was the furious attack on the ball and the man. Even a bulldogs side without half a dozen senior players has a very strong midfield, and we matched them through brute force as much as skill. This is what Roos has been talking about when he asked for a team of competitors. Even though we didn't handle the wind well and many had a bad case of the fumbles, the attack kept them in the game and more often than not won the ball. Other positives: Watts: Took some really good marks, roved between the 50 and the wing and occasionally dropped into defence at the end of the quarter (and took a nice mark in the goalsquare down there). My biggest issue with his game was that he took long shots against the wind in the first and third, but refused to take the same shots with the wind behind him in the second and fourth. He could have had five or six today if he'd backed himself to kick 50m with the wind at his back. Gawn was immense again. They were actually pulling Boyd out of his forward spot to double-team him at one point. Boyd was designated ruck and just blocked Gawn out while Minson got the uncontested hitout (I'm pretty sure that blocking is illegal, but the umps were not on our side today). Speaking of Boyd, he did not impress. He was lazy defensively, kicked poorly and in general just failed to impact the game. Viney is awesome. I have to say this. Even when he turned the ball over, he went back in and won it again. Harmes took a ripping hanger and goal, which was nice. I have a feeling though that he may have also been the one who kicked a perfect pass to a Bulldog for a nine-point goal. Kennedy worked really hard and in the second half that translated into winning more ball and creating attacking opportunities. Our backline weren't great today. They were disorganised and repeatedly got caught out being too far up the ground while their opponents had dropped off and were wide open in the 50. At one point Nev was marking Boyd (who didn't manage to take a mark on him). I think they were too eager to attack and forgot about their men or just assumed that someone else was covering for them. Overall, a good win even if the doggies were missing a few. It was based on guts and hard work more than skill, but hopefully they will get the touch back by the start of the season. There were far too many players fumbling for my liking, including a few dropped chest marks. You have to give them a pass, but lots still to work on.

Interesting point from the game today. When Pedersen was dumped over the boundary at HF, Oliver was a few feet away and turned to jog off and set up for the throw-in. A teammate (I think vandenBerg) yelled at him something along the lines of "He's your teammate, give him a hand up!" by which time Pedersen had already picked himself up. Still, it's another example of team-building and player-driven standards in action.

I was one of the measly 2000 dees supporters that bothered to show up, clearly not many demonlanders posting here were. How many members do we have again? It was Cragieburn not the friggin arctic circle. Maybe the commentary has coloured people's views. I wasn't in the greatest mood at 3QT but we demolished them in the last. It was like there was one team out there. Yes it was a clanger festival but it was a praccy in tough conditions. What is this 'young dogs' BS have we already forgotten we are THE Peter Pan club of the AFL, just replenishing our ranks with zero gamers every year. We are definitely going to win a few more than last year and that's all you can ever really ask. We might have been fairly high strength but missing Hogan is huge. I am pumped we have the opportunity to go 3 from 3 after the Saints match, head into the season with some genuine momentum for the first time in about 20 years.

I was at Highgate arena today and I watched him very closely. I will file a comprehensive player personel report later but I have to say. This Bloke is the "Real Deal" On so many levels he is an inspired selection. I say inspired because the Toumpas fiasco of yesteryear, The pressure to pick Darcy Parish, and or one or two others. So I'll give you my observations, 1 He set's himself in the right position for Offence or Defense 2 He has uncanny spatial competency! I'll call it the Dr. Who factor! He creates time and appears that he has plenty of time and peripheral vision to assess the right option for disposal which he gives off effortlessly. I have previously called the is the "Greg Williams" effect. I reckon if Greg saw him he would agree coz he's just as tough and Quicker!!!!!! 3 I saw him dispose of by foot today and he is very precise and clinical. 4 He has serious "Grunt Factor" got crunched once or twice got up dusted himself of and stared again. 5 Went for a few "Species" again don't mind a Mid playing tall, infact he was in FF for a period of time 6 He is taller than I first imagined but with good Musculature in the Thighs which then prepare him for good "Core" strength. I hope I'm not getting ahead of myself but Sheeit I reckon he is Bloody GOLD nugget! I'm putting a lazy $50 on him as the 2016 Rising star and I hope to Christmas he doesn't read Demomland and I've' put the mozz on him Oh one other thing I agree with Dazzle Man, I don;t read anything into the Chuckin and 70% game time It was friggen Bloody hot out there today!!

Really, I'm surprised that the punters on Demonland aren't universally praising our team for the very good win today. I took the drive to Craigieburn with my son. We were on the forward fifty fence at the 'northern' end. We were in perfect position to witness the magnificent goals posted by Garlett, Watts and Tyson. The team that kicked with the four-goal wind was always going to get the jump. We agreed at quarter time that we would have rebounded well if we tied up the scores at half time. That's pretty much what happened. We felt we needed to limit their scoring in the third quarter if we had any chance of winning. We managed to get a few against the tide. At three quarter time we decided that a spirited effort in the fourth, win or lose, would be enough to send us home satisfied. We were all over them in the fourth and every player contributed. The commitment and pressure was outstanding, to the point that we owned them with five or so minutes to go. All our targets were met and we march on excactly as Roos and Goodwin would have liked... not to mention our CEO (and person in charge of membership!). Get on the bandwagon Demonland, the signs are all good!

How Tom Boyd doesn't cop anywhere near the amount of crtisicm Watts does (or did) is beyond me. He takes a mark and the commentators go crazy, talk of him like he's a star.

Biggest positive of this game, Clayton Oliver! I remember seeing Wines on debut against us in 2013 and just thinking "Oh [censored]!" Well I think Oliver has been just as impressive as Wines was. Even that last play of the game, most kids would have been pinged for HTB, Oliver gets a kick away. Bugg was excellent, but unfortunately I remember Kennedy's floaters when he was at Collingwood. Let's hope vandenBerg's injury isn't serious. Given his history and reaction when coming off, I'm nervous.

I DGAF what number he wears as long as he keeps playing the way he is, he is a serious chance at rising star

If you start introducing premiership point "bonuses" or finals berths to teams for practice games, then teams will quickly start having practice games to prepare for the practice games, which will lead for calls to award incentives for the winners of the practice practice games, leading to practice practice practice games, and the whole world will go up in flames.

The Doggies had a stand out season in 2015 rising from 7 wins to 14 and making the finals. The Demons are aiming to follow suit in 2016.

No its not.

I don't care what people say, but we could do a lot worse than Cameron Pederson. runs to the right spot, has a crack, good filler.

Going for two wins in a row. Yes, I'll even take them in the pre-season. This is what I've been reduced to.

I am so glad that we do not have Tom Boyd on our list. He has got to be the most overpaid player in the league. If he doesn't kick 50 goals this season, how can he justify $900,000 a season? Hogan is a bargain at half the price!

I was notably a Darcy Parish fan, but i may have very much eaten my words before the season has even started!

You got howled down for good reason. And probably will again.

That's a silly thing to say Saty. We haven't been impressive, we've turned it over, fumbled the ball and our kicks inside 50 have been average at best. People here aren't slitting wrists, just calling it as they see it. If it's bad then it's bad. You can't spin it any other way.

I hate Derwayne because he is so condescending and always pots the weaker team. But he is silk compared to Tony Shaw who has to be the worst I've ever heard. It was so obvious from the first bounce that the wind really effected the game but did Tony understand that? No. Not one mention of it. No wonder he was such a plonker as a coach. He's the worst I've ever heard.

I don't understand Hunt getting a game ahead of Stretch and ANB.

He will be far better than both Hunt and Wagner for a start. Good to give them some game time but still a fair way off the pace. Lumumba will add run, good defensive capabilities and experience to that back 6, which is fine by me.

Looks very very good. And I have found out over the years that most of the time, first impressions are correct. Looks a real bull around the ball.

This combination of fox footy callers would have to be the worst ever! Tony Shaw should only be allowed to do special comments only if he gives the via sign language! Some good signs today as well as some things that need tightening up. Good work boys happy that they pilled on the pressure at the end.

These are games we would always find ourselves losing last year (Carlton, Essendon, St Kilda). Although it was far from a perfect performance, the fact we fought our way back into the game shows that we're starting to learn how to win against the odds and against teams we should beat. Scrappy win, but I'll take it anyday.

We can't transition because we miss targets. we can't exploit turnovers because we don't work hard enough our skills cost us 5-6 easy goals per game

Great to see Tommy Bugg with 16 touches already. Led the tackle count in NAB 1. Is willing himself into games.

Last year we played Essendon in the final NAB game. They were missing a bunch of their best players (due to "the saga"). We lost. At least this year, when faced with a side missing players, we managed to find a way to win. It's those kind of games we lost last year and have regularly lost since 2007 - games where we are favourites and/or know we have a chance are the ones we often stuff up. We let them get ahead, twice, and we fought back both times.

Hogan and Petracca makes 2, Brayshaw would be a nice 3rd. Trengove is excluded as Clay Smith from the Dogs is also excluded, we don't know what he'll be when he's back yet. That accounts (and being generous) for Stringer, Bont and Macrae maybe. Still doesn't account for another 12 players including the skill aspects of the Dogs backline, a large chunk of their midfield and a few other solid forwards. Similar young sides to the one the Dogs put out there today - like Carl, Essendon, Richmond and Hawthorn have fielded over the first two rounds - have been absolutely punished by experienced line ups. Today was poor, I'm not sure why everyone is keen to reward the mediocrity.

Has to and will play round one. Is an inside mid like Wines. They don't need time. They can play a role straight away. Better version of Wines once his body fills out. Has more strings to his bow. Will be a genuine inside mid gun. Instinctive footballer.

Could not agree more WW. My thoughts exactly and reflect those i made to my mate at the game. A good win. Coincidentally enough i also went and must have been not far away if you were on the fence as i was on the hill at the at the Sydney end at about the 30 metre mark. Funnily enough i was also with my son. Watts and Garlett were both right in front of me when they kicked those goals. Both brilliant shots as was Tyson's from the much the same spot as Wattsy's. Watts was fantastic today and behind Gawn our best player. He worked his arse off. Not much is being mad of the fact that despite the difficulty of kicking against the wind we kept one of the most free flowing sides in the AFL goalless in two quarters. Not that that we scored 3 goals against the same wind, with one being a brilliant coast to coast goal with two spectacular bits of play from Jetts and Kent.

It is pointless playing him in the two's when he is one of our better players in the one's (at least he was today). Pick players on form. He doesn't deserve to be dropped back to the reserves, that wouldn't be a good precedent to set, we should be rewarded our young players when they have good games - as we did with Brayshaw last year.

It might have been a complete trainwreck mate, I acknowledge that. Just saying I wouldn't know from reading Demonland, because I'll get told it was whether it was or not. This isn't an isolated incident, there's a good reason why I've taken to avoiding the match day threads in general in the last 12 months.

The problem I see is that the discussion is often lead by people who have clearly already formed their opinion and aren't going to ever budge. DeeSpencer as GRRM last year embarrassed himself big time with his "I've had enough of Tom McDonald" thread at the beginning of last year, went quiet for a long time, then suddenly McDonald plays a few poor games again, and he we are with the "see? He's terrible" stuff. I respect that people are entitled to their own opinion, just don't go expecting a riveting discussion about it when that is the starting point of the conversation.

He's had less than one pre season & it was a 30 degree day. It's hardly a concern. I'd say it's a good sign he can get that much out of himself already when you take into account he's probably only trained for 12 weeks as a pro.

Just listening to Goodwin's press conference - says Vanders should be right for next week and that Dunny had a bit of a groin injury as well but should be right to go as well. Good to hear that the injuries we received this week were only very minimal.

Yes and no. If he is ready and best 22, he plays. Much like Brayshaw did last year.

It's one game. In early March. Don't get your knickers in a twist. I'm happy for Hunt and Wagner to get game time, but they've shown that they are still some way off the pace of AFL footy. They will continue to develop at Casey. Nothing wrong with that. Lumumba is ready to return and I have no doubt they'll slot him in across half back when the real stuff starts.

So this is now 28 consecutive weeks undefeated for the Dees! The flag must surely be a lock now.

Hunt showed nothing today to suggest he's a capable league player. He had an opportunity in the last qtr to show his dash when the back flank but instead handballs over the Skips head. If his speed is a weapon, why isn't he using it?

I don't think that's the point though here Saty. The point is that, in 6 years, he is still making the same mistakes. His kicking is average at best and he needs to understand that. Rather than trying to be too cute or clever he just needs to get the ball forward to a contest. For example his kick, in the third term, where he was in the back pocket and he kicked it in to the middle of the ground where we had a 1 on 4 was just terrible. It resulted in a goal and you couldn't help but wonder what in the world he was thinking. His decision making is still poor as well - forget that it's NAB Challenge, the worrying aspect is that he is still doing the same things over and over again. Not to mention that he has put off contract talks which doesn't help either.

Terrible game. Skills just aren't there and we should ran all over the young dogs for 4 quarters not just when they tired. Wind was a factor in the first and 3rd quarter performances but not an excuse. Plus the kicking for the goal in the last might've shown we didn't know it was out there anyway. Grimes, Watts, Kennedy, Tom McDonald, Garland, Harmes, Kent, Frost all showing the same flaws. No real answers to who plays in round 1. Wagner only played a half, Stretch unsighted, Vanders injured. I'm not at all happy. The saints will show us up big time if we can't deal with pressure and defend smarter than we did for most of today.

Matt Granland was very good, much better than most Fox commentators.

The injury to vandenBerg is the biggest worry. Didn't he miss 4+ weeks with it last year? McDonald should just aim for the crowd, that's his best chance of hitting a Dees player.

I honestly think that Watts is finally hitting his straps. Will be a handy player this year.

Just want to see the same intent and pressure as we had last week. Now that we have shaken off the rustiness we should be able to go out there and get things going from the first bounce. I'm also interested to see how the forward line functions without Hogan down there. He didn't do a whole lot last week but then he does take the best defender, so I'm curious as to how we kick out goals with Pedersen, Frost and a resting Gawn as our talls. If we can get it down there enough then hopefully our small players can jag a few as well.

Oliver will be a star.

Jade Rawlings was just on SEN. If I heard him correctly, 23 players will actually play with three others sitting on the bench to come on as substitutes only if we have an injury. If that's right, let's hope those three don't get any game time. He didn't say who those three would be.

Having seen Cloke and Swans dic pics- I'm not sure they have enough up forward to excite.

I have had a chat to both Hoges himself and the training staff, they expect him to play around the 100kg mark, he is around that now, if you watch the clip on the club website featuring the strength and conditioning coach you will hear how much thought goes into each player, Hoges' aerobic and running capacity has improved out of site this pre season, me I am pleased he is being given a break, has hardly missed a session all pre season, just freshen him up At every training session he gets a massage half way through the session to his back and hips, think it is more habit now and makes him 'feel ok', assume same happens at half time during games