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In 2006 some people from Demonology and Demonland orgnaised to watch a round 22 game against Adelaide at the Leighoak as it was on Foxtel. There was also a Sandringham game on before it so we could do the double. Melbourne got thrashed and I met some very strange people.

Some people add muscle much more easily than others, some people retain fast-reacting muscle for much longer, some people have better base VO2, some people have shiny hair and soft smooth skin even though they grew up on a sheep-station. One of those "Dr Karl Kruzelnicki factoids" is that historical family names were associated with profession, and people named 'Smith' are heavier than people named 'Taylor' even hundreds of years later. As for why people seem confident that Parish will be a Smith not a Taylor, hard to say. He does seem to have a pretty solid torso, and there's some photos around where there's a lot of sinewy muscle in the arms and legs. Really the only way to find out would be to cook him and find out if he is more like kangaroo or wagyu.

What this demonstrates is how appallingly bad the legal and PR advice to Essendon was post the resignation of Evans. Fanned by the sociopathic flames of the Hirds, any rational defence of their (Essendon's) actions of 2012 rapidly went to the window and replaced by self justification and paranoia. This could have all been over in 2013, had Essendon accepted the deal negotiated by Evans, Demetriou, Liz Lukin (the AFL PR guru) and ASADA, but it would have meant Hird would have had to fall on his sword and admit guilt. It is symptomatic of the dramatic lack of leadership in the AFL and Essendon at that time that this did not happen. It will end up costing Essendon, the AFL, and the game of Australian rules football tens of millions of dollars, perhaps more, over the next ten years before this is all over. It is a lesson in allowing seriously flawed people untrammelled power, and what happens when charismatic narcissistic leaders have unchecked power, and people of integrity remain silent in sport, politics and life. Where have we heard that before?

Next year the coaching staff need to leave Watts inside the forward 50 and told he has 10 weeka to show why we drafted him as a forward. No more shedding weight in the expense of playing in the midfield. Club needs to just back him in one position and told be creative and kick goals.

this alone is a part of our soft culture, expecting one or two, to be hard & the others to suit themselves, IF they are skilled. Not good enough this way. Players must be well rounded, & 'go' when its the turn to 'go'. ... we have seen in recent times the kids we recruited who entered a culture with senior players like, yze, robbo, green, bruce, davey,... the kids like newton, watts, morton, bennell, cook, gysberts, howe, toump; .....the culture learn't from the get go, lasts thru careers, & is like soap scum on the shower glass, you can never really get it all out. .

I have to say '94 was better because Schwarter was in full flight and had yet to do a knee.

The vibe

I can see it now: Gawn taps it to Viney as Salem sprints in from the back of the centre square, receives the Viney handball and places a perfectly executed left foot stab pass to Petracca 30 meters out and straight in front. This happens 3 times in a row causing Alistair Clarkson to wreck the Hawthorn coaches box before sending Luke Hodge onto Viney. So Gawn taps it to Brayshaw instead who, aided by a block from vandenBerg, feeds the ball to Milkshake running off the back of the square. Same result!

So picks 3 and 7. From the various things I have seen and read about this year's draftees, I hope we take Parish and Curnow. While I haven't seen a lot of Parish, from what I have seen, he just looks like he oozes class and also has a hardness to his game. Would be great if he were a few cm's taller but not all mids have to be 188cm plus. What he lacks in height, he appears to make up for in skill and decision making. Once again, while I have only seen limited footage, Curnow looks and sounds like he could be anything. At worst I think he will be a great target with safe hands alongside Hogan. At best, I think he is the closest thing to Bontempelli in this draft, in that he also has the potential to dominate through the midfield. The whispers would suggest the club is very much interested in both of them.

Settle down folks ... please stay on topic

As a casual observer I find it fascinating how quickly and seamlessly Stuie can argue himself in to a losing position. Unfortunately it destroys threads in the process.

How did bikini model give police the slip?

I've noticed in the last year or so that there has been a lot of stupid bickering and name calling derailing threads. I'm just asking can you please stop this rubbish? If you don't like or agree with someones opinion so much that you feel like you have to respond with insults why don't you just put them on ignore. It is becoming a chore to read through some of these threads listening to you guys throw stupid insults at each other. Dazzle, Moon, Stuie (I know there's a lot more but that's all I can think of right now) I'm talking to you guys. I enjoy reading your posts on football but for a long time it has just been you guys calling out other posters and such. I know a lot of posters are dumb and I'm probably one of them but for someone that comes here to read about Melbourne news it sucks to have to wade through pages of posts of you guys just arguing together.

Have they reformed as Uluru?

It is interesting how quickly an opinion by some journalist snowballs. Soon enough most can't actually remember why they think player A is a lock but the idea has self perpetuated. Its easy to get caught up in it i guess but personally i try to stand back and wait for draft day. Theres just no way I can gather enough info on any of these kids to make my opinion worthwhile. Also I've been burnt so often now with our drafting. I remember being happy we took Toumpas. Hadn't seen many highlights but got caught up in the media frenzy like most.

The Wiz is still criminally underrated by the AFL community as well. Melbourne fans remember just how good he was but, outside of that, people rarely talk about him these days. He didn't help his cause by going back to Freo but, IMO, his efforts in 2000 were some of the best ever by a small forward.

Better than, 1.obnoxious 2.Malevolent 3.predictably stu-pid.

As Guru Bob used to say: a champion team will always beat a team of champions, unless the team of champions is very, very good.

Essendrug never wanted this investigation to finish early Not with 34 players cited. The longer this was drawn out the happier they are Players are now spread throughout different clubs and leagues No longer an Essendrug liability. Their strategy was easy to spot from about Day 5

I've never understood why people do it. Why would you, as a supporter, essentially will Trenners to failure? It doesn't make sense. It's not like we have any say in the planning. So why not just hope for the best outcome? Who knows what will happen with him post-surgery, but surely you'd think positively until he's ruled out. A fit and firing Trenners is a more than handy player. That's what I'm hoping to see next season. As a supporter of him and the team.

I just put $10 on Trip to Paris using this red and blue reasoning although when I explained the thought process to my wife she sniffed "you realise that is more of a reason for it to come last than win?" Harsh

WTF? That is a terrible example, there is no moral grey area there. Possessing child porn is a crime because somebody had to have produced it, thereby exploiting a child. By possessing it, you support and endorse those who exploit children to produce it. A lesser crime than producing it or actually abusing a child, nonetheless a crime and a reprehensible one that will earn you a stack of time behind bars. This topic sucks.

Francesca looks immaculate in the yard. My only knock on her is her temperament. Brad Sewell??? FFS Fran.

Lets just hope CAS see this for what it was - the largest club sanctioned yet ungoverned illegal supplements regime in the history of team sport - and punish accordingly.

Nah, you're right Deeoldfart. I've got the same gut feeling. The next few years are going to be an exciting period for the club and I think it will be your unheralded players who will step up - Stretch, Neal - Bullen, Harmes.

Watching it now. Steven Stretch would have had no problems fitting in todays game. Absolutely classy with ball in hands and his kicking was fantastic by the looks of it.

IF Watts can become ferocious at the contest, he will be elite. I get that this will involve a monumental change and that, without being hard at the ball these days, elite talent does not translate into being an elite player, but that's all that's required IMO. Brad Green turned himself from a softish player into a madman at the contest. It can be done.

The difference is that poor lad didn't have a safe word!

I completely agree with your first paragraph. I can't comprehend the second.

Looking at Parish frame he looks like the kind of build that will bulk up pretty easy. Once he gets a big bigger we'll see him lining up in the center circle roving off Gawnys taps. For someone who is quite slight and small he is ridiculously good overhead.

Bang. Could not agree more DD. If they're going to "make him or break him" then do it in the one position he's shown the most promise, has the best skill set for, and would be the handiest for us to have work as a team.

He seems a fantastic decision maker with great anticipation. He never stops moving and initiating. He's always trying to make something happen. Where Toumpas couldn't evade and looked weak in the contest it's the opposite with Parish. I'm no expert on him, but it's hard not to like what you see.

Had to dig through the family albums for that one.

What a great game it was too! (First time I'd been to Etihad since a nab cup game against the Tiges 2 years ago). I reckon the 9000 of us there, enjoyed that Etihad win, more than hawthorn supporters enjoyed this year's flag.

Mrs oldfart has already put her once a year bet on Trip to Paris. "Why" I asked ........"because its colors are red and blue of course". I should have known.

From Snoop Dog, who's a solid observer... He hasn't yet done his phantom Draft, but this is his view on Parish in another type of communal draft: # 3 Melbourne - Darcy Parish (Geelong Falcons / 181cm / 74kg) Terrific player who have seen plenty of. Probably not as big as you want your midfielders these days but he ticks nearly every box. Very clever player around the stoppages who can win it and create space through the congestion to get away and clear the ball. Actually has real bounce about him and would think he would be a hard player to track and stay on top of as he is always on the move. As a bottom ager I thought he was a bit outside but he was a terrific ball winner this year and has really rounded him out. His ball skills are very good (averages circa 70% DE) and he is particularly good at using lateral kicks to create the play and set team mates up. His vision is elite and his spacial awareness very good to. Just doesn't really get flustered. From a defensive aspect notwithstanding the frame he loves to tackle and whilst an average 2-3 at champs / TAC he isn't averse to it but it is an area he could do some more work on to try and get that up around 5+ per game. Always love to watch how these kids go vs men and really rated his performance for the Academy side vs Blues and Werribee. He was hard at it and really competitive and I think the game vs the Blues was particularly good. Only knock is he didn't test that well at the combine which i was surprised by because when you watch him that is not the sense you get. Not sure where he will start at AFL level. He has shown he is very good off a HB flank, demonstrated this year he is a very good all round midfielder and has pushed forward as well to kick goals. He has a very light frame though and he won't be pushed to the middle to quickly I would have thought and with mids like Jones, Petracca, Brayshaw, Tyson and Viney they can afford to protect him a bit. With Salem & Bugg off HB wouldn't mind betting he starts as a HF flanker. Building a very talented group of juniors these Demons ...

I thought that we were about due for a new Jack Watts thread! Watts is absolutely in my best 22. I'd have him rotating from the wing through the forward line as a third tall option.

Well then we have to honour his contract But he might be happy to get paid out and get on with his life. He can get a paid gig at a local league too. The club will obviously tell him that they have no intention of giving his senior games next year. Then it is up to him how he wants to proceed. It's a delicate situation and it needs to be handled gracefully or it will put a lot of our players off side. You can't just dishonour contracts when it suits you. It has to be done with both parties mutually agreeing to the decision.

He's got a great story. Best out of all those players in Year 7-8 but stopped growing while everyone kept going. Dropped out of footy because too small. Then in Year 11 grew a foot in less than a year and suddenly in Year 12 could compete again. Was a standout over the others in some of those Year 12 games. Explains why he has had back problems. Waiting for the frame to catch up to such a rapid growth spurt.

Show us the evidence that you said that about Carlton not winning a flag with Judd..Hindsight is such a wonderful thing..

Rookies: Aaron Sandilands, Dean Cox, Shane Mumford, Jonathon Ceglar, Sam Jacobs, Mark Jamar, Darren Jolly, etc. 10 All-Australians since 2005.

You obviously never went to any of the old suburban grounds or Waverley? Or for that matter the MCG before the recent upgrades. Docklands is far less a "hole" than any of those grounds. I don't like it but to suggest it is a "hole" is ridiculous. And I'll go watch the MFC play wherever it's not about the ground it's about the club. Those who refuse to support the club at Docklands because of some hissy fit about it's not fair and I don't like it are just as bad as though who refuse to buy a membership as a means of "sending a message to the club" - especially when the club has no say in the scheduling of these games. Nb. I'm not saying there aren't reasons for not going/buying memberships but those who otherwise would but choose not to because they're having a sook are quite frankly part of the problem. Case in point. Haha "thousands" - get a grip.

I've been saying for years that he's too light, gets brushed off when tackling and generally doesn't have the strength to win his own footy. I don't think Roos and Goodwins current strategy and game style is going to appeal to Jack unless he changes his whole approach to the game. Pure outside mids are a thing of the past and team rules are in place for everyone to follow. Blokes who hold back from a contest and play seagull footy won't last. Toumpas is a prime example. Get him in the gym and put 5 or 6 kgs on him and have one last roll of the dice. Otherwise it'll be adios. Ed: spelling

And wasn't Josh Mahoney himself telling us all along not to judge the trade period by any single trade, but to wait to see the overall picture? Some were fine with that because they understood that to be wise strategy. They just got swamped by the doomsayers.

Yes. As the team improves, so will Watts. He is important to the team

It's funny. I haven't read one poster who articulated any degree of insight into the negotiations from this draft period, yet apparently, after the event, it's passe. I accept it's not all ground breaking, but I found the interaction of the characters interesting and found it a good read. Clearly, I'm not as clever as some.

I've just finished removing Jimmy Toumpas as my favourite player BBO and installing ANB into that lofty position. He'll be on the outer by next years' post season.

Yep, add me to the fan club too. Most people seem to lump him into the meat and potatoes, solid foot soldier category. I think he's a bit better than that. I think if he hadn't arrived in the same draft as Brayshaw, Petracca, Stretch and vandenBerg and debuted in the same year as Hogan, he's be receiving far more positive attention. He adjusted to the speed of senior footy amazingly well, seems to be of tremendous character and does all the basic things really well. Screams 200 game player to me. If it was 2010 we'd be talking him up as our next captain.

M Jones actually plays as a defensive forward really well. Locks the ball in well and causes stoppages

I can now answer my own question about the number of Bombers left at the club and still facing possible sanctions as a result of next month's CAS hearing - Essendon home to just 13 of original 34 players facing WADA appeal ahead of hearing So it has come to pass that an adverse decision at the final hearing of the charges will not be such a disaster for the Bombers' playing list and the club will now certainly be able to soldier on but paradoxically, Essendon, through its lack of transparency and its determination to stave off a full and open hearing into what happened at the club in 2012 has caused much of the damage. I think the AFL is also accountable for some of this when, in its haste to avoid the embarrassment of having Essendon in the 2013 finals dealt with that club inappropriately and before the investigation was finalised. Yes, and there were people at ASADA who also dropped the ball. This should all have been long over - the victims of the delay are the club and the players ... and of course Hird himself is gone as coach but should face further repercussions before this long and sorry saga is done and dusted for good.