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People need to look at it this way. We have Hogan. Therefore we win everything.

Wouldn't have known Ben Kennedy, but watching his highlights pack the one thing that stands out is competitive aggression. If those of you naysayers can't see what this club are trying to create, or should I say re-create, then you aren't paying attention. So far we have Kennedy and Melksham, and seemingly Bugg. What is the MAIN thing these guys have that Toumpas and Howe don't? Hunger for the hard ball and the contest. It's THAT obvious, and it makes me very happy.

Did Carlton Win?4-18 ‏@DidCarltonWin 17m17 minutes ago Did Carlton Win?4-18 Retweeted Jimmy Toumpas In reading this I translated it to Melbourne don't work hard? Did Carlton Win?4-18 added, Jimmy Toumpas @JToumpas I am so excited though to start fresh at the @PAFC! A club that is based around hard work. It's a journey I can't wait to begin! 0 retweets1 favorite Reply Retweet Favorite 1 More Jimmy Toumpas ‏@JToumpas 16m16 minutes ago .@DidCarltonWin translation incorrect mate, a club going on to some very exciting things. He didn't mean it to sound like a veiled insult to the MFC. I wish him the best, always wanted to see him become a gun at the MFC but not to be.

Interesting quote from Mahoney as well. Seems we aren't done yet. “By packaging up the Howe and Toumpas trades, it has allowed us to get the best overall net outcome for the club. It also gives us the picks needed to facilitate further trades before Thursday’s trade deadline.

All the best to the Toump. Eat a big fat one Howe.

I wish Toumpas well. If he wants to go home, we have facilitated it. His value now has nothing to do with him originally being #4. He is an absolute draft bust, worse than Cale Morton. To my mind he wasn't physical enough, never recovered from his hip problem, was nowhere near as good a kick as he was touted to be, panicked in traffic and under pressure, and couldn't get a game in a bottom six side for the last nine rounds of the year when we had plenty of injuries. He was probably homesick, and has been surpassed by players like Harmes, Stretch, Neal-Bullen and vandenBerg etc. who came much more cheaply in the drafts. I don't know why anyone would expect more of the trade as his record wasn't good. So be it, we clean the decks and carry on.

I have posted Toumpas's stats on here too many times so i won't again, but for those who haven't seen them (ones new to Demonland), they are actually not bad and show good progress. Just that he was cursed with the pick 4 draft number, and the fact that we didn't draft Wines. I feel like this will bite us in the foot, and Toumpas will blossom in Port Adelaide. Now i have said this, and my stance has forever been stated here on demonland, i will move on. But feel free to re-quote this if i'm ever wrong, or if i'm ever sadly right.

Funny, isn't it? They're surplus to requirements, right up until the point where the other clubs agree.

Disturbing.

From today's AFL trade wrap: GWS' Tomas Bugg remains on track to join the Demons, with the club expected to use a third round pick for the 22-year-old, who has performed well in 65 games with the Giants. I'd be happy with pick 50 for Bugg.

Over 100 pages might indicate that some on here drink their own bathwater just a little. I think Howe for Kennedy and 2nd Round is fair, and sadly Jimmy for a third rounder is also fair. Toumpas never really stood up when he had the opportunity this year, particularly after his "breakout game" against the saints. If we were on the other side of this we would probably argue that pick 50 is too much to give. Howe plays inconsistent, yet highlight reel football and will no doubt be in the top 3 for MOTY again next year, and we will miss him when that hppens. Kennedy will bring more consistent football and hopefully will have a 30 goal season playing off half forward, and I think will exceed Howe's match output before we play the filth on QBD. This isn't the worlds best deal, but its not the worst either, we definitely didn't get poled, boned, skewered or bent over. Negotiating isn't just sitting in a room thumping your fist and shouting at the other bloke until he gives you want just to shut you up. I think we did the best with what we had, and it would seem we aren't done with trade week yet.

Just once I want to come out first in something. We basically traded Toumpas for pick 50, three seasons after investing pick 4 into him. I would rather back him in and delist him in two years than take a punt on pick 50. I wish him luck and I wish Howe failure.

They think he is a poor player and dont want to spoil their record of picking poor players with early picks!My wild guess is he is a good player. just a guess of course.

Welcome back, Addam Maric.

See ya. What were you expecting? A first rounder for both? Toumpas is lost at AFL level. If Howe didn't take a speccy every now and again no one would know his name.

35?

FWIW: Brett Anderson ‏@BrettAndersonIF 48m 48 minutes ago Dees fans need to look at it this way. Essentially swapped Toumpas for Kennedy. Points value of 29+50 equals pick 20 for Howe.

Howe is a C+ grader and Toumpas is D. What do you expect to receive for such players ? (For reference I consider Nathan Jones a B grader, who has had one A grade year - 2014) Toumpas isn't worth much more than pick 50. Pick 40 if you got really lucky. And Kennedy and 29 for Howe is reasonable. I don't know what the fuss is about.

Prepare the lube

Well done to Jess for taking out the Melbourne Marathon (women's) yesterday, knocking off nearly 2.5mins from her pb and qualifying for Rio in the process. Her time of 2hrs 27mins 45secs makes her the sixth fastest woman in Australian history over that distance! Sensational effort ???

Why play hard ball on a bloke who is on the fringes of the team? I understand the annoyance that the GC deal won't come to pass but any value above Pick 30 is good for a player like Howe IMO. If Buckley thinks he can turn him into Smith/Gunston Hybrid of Awesomeness - go for it; he's not suitable back, he struggles to play in front because he likes to jump from behind and that will frustrate whoever is Collingwood's forwards coach. They already hate Elliot doing it - now they have two!

Gods. My ironyometer just exploded.

Toumpas contributed very little in the three years he was at The MFC. Howe gave us a dozen good games and a lot of wonderful marks. Neither of them were going to make a contribution that would get us into the eight in 2016 let alone the top four. Kennedy has joined who knows if he will be any better but one thing is for certain. If we kept using the same players the the results would not change.

We'll probably trade him back to a WA club for pick 72 and a used footy in two years time

Brett Anderson needs to look at it this way. Nobody cares about the stupid points unless you have a father/son or academy player.

Kennedy for Toumpas and Howe for Melksham. Sounds about right.

Ben Kennedy, to me, is a direct replacement for Dean Kent... in that we can now release someone like Kent to play through the midfield where he can use his left foot as a weapon on a consistent basis. Having Garlett and Kennedy roaming around at the feet of Hogan will be terrific going forward, just as the Melksham deal gives us the flexibility to move Salem in to the midfield as well. He and Kent hitting lace out passes to Hogan will be a joy to watch next year.

Welcome Ben Kennedy! I know nothing about you but I hope you offer more than the last two blokes Collingwood offloaded to us! And anyone who decides to walk out on the Filth while contracted gets an instant pass in my mental aptitude test.

Kudos for them doing so.

He's a harmless supporter that is passionate about the Dees. And that's all that matters.

No point sweating the small stuff. Decide who you want, do the deal, move on. The difference a few places in the draft make (outside of the first 10) is neither here nor there, and what happens on draft night is something of a lottery. No-one could have foreseen that we'd get ANB and then Oscar Mac at the picks we did, or that a lowly pick like Vandenberg would end up being a decent enough player to pick up Brownlow votes. Melksham for 25, Toumpas for Kennedy etc. - these aren't in themselves deals that are going to make or break the club. On the other hand, bringing in three young hard-at-the-ball players, regardless of their deficiencies, does start to shift the culture of the club and set a precedent, especially for players that will be competing for the same or similar roles.

I would have a go at Tomlinson as well as Bugg.

Kennedy can play! But i feel we paid overs.

Can I make a suggestion to those that are livid, morose, suicidal, despondent or just a tad miffed. It's not over. The whole trade/draft period must be seen as a whole. Theres a start...and a finish...when draft picks used. This years are only worth what you can get for your needs. They have no other value and each team will have a different value...just like currencies. If Mahoney and co have a clear idea of what/who they want and can get it or near then THATS the yatdstick . Its way too early to chuck hissies etc. All things are relevant . Its trash and treasure time Chill...breathe...wait. Just wait

If you seriously think we would have drafted Kennedy at 4 over Wines, Stringer or Macrae then you're either an idiot or deliberately talking [censored] to try and placate the masses.

In what scenario is letting Howe go in the draft a good decision?

Howe has been an average AFL player and Toumpas has played one good game. Yet all of a sudden we should be getting 4 second rounders, 3 players and a partridge in a pear tree. Plus the deal isn't even finalised yet. The only person who has put something out there is Anderson. I'll still back the FD.

I'd rather bring in Weideman and Curnow with picks 6&8, than Parish with pick 3.

Bell is returning to QLD as his father is very unwell. Carlton would be shattered that he is leaving but good on them for not making life difficult for him.

Just on trade radio, Melbourne are in negotiation with Suns to guarantee a draft pick that will give us Darcy Parrish.

His dad has cancer and there is no one left to look after his other siblings up in Brisbane. Im pretty sure Carlton let him go for family reasons and nothing else.

Any kid we get at ND6 who is above 6'4 won't be able to help Hogan for a few years...

Gawd... Even, I am in the 'they should be punished regardless of how much they knew' but give it a rest with the 'drug cheat' stuff. From what we all have extensively read - this was not a Lance Armstrong-like operation that took place. And he may not be punished, but I will tell you what he will be - he will be running around in the red and blue.

I think you are confused between knowing how to negotiate and knowing when to take a good deal. The idea to separate the higher valued player from the lower valued player is good negotiation. The first thing we have to do with Howe is get a benchmark value for him and get Collingwood to offer a reasonable deal. If we end up converting that deal to one for Kennedy and picks then that's fine as long as the picks are decent. If we want Kennedy and they want Howe then it's fine that they end up in the same trade eventually. Keeping them separate is just important until we get value for Howe.

If you really feel that our Footy Department are contemplating recruitment of players because "they think they have to do something" then you are naive (and that's being very generous!). Maybe their selections will work out, and maybe they won't, but to suggest that players would be recruited for the sake of appearances and not because they are expected to improve our team, is being disrespectful towards our recruiters who have an excellent record in their player selections over the last couple of years.

I'm really struggling to think of posts of yours that don't 1/ offer anything but abuse, or 2/ offer substance. You seem to be the self appointed attack dog of Demonland. There is a BigFooty poster that reminds me of you, and I think it just might be. Loves dancing in Bay 13; loves a good troll; never (or on the assumption I've missed posts because I only go there when bored unlike here) offers a reasoned counter argument to anything, but instead runs with a 'lol only a moron could think / say that' approach. I hope I'm wrong, and apologise if I am, because that fella makes me cringe thinking I'll be associated with him if I make a post. But the style and syntax are pretty similar. I'm finding it harder and harder to enjoy this place these days because of people like you and others that have a similar mindset. I come here to learn about my beloved team, not to see you and others use it as a forum to point score on minor matters none of us have control over. It's no fun seeing the same ten posters attack each other because they drew battle lines on some obscure point in 2009. I dunno if this makes sense but how about we try something novel around here: attack the post rather than the poster. Y'know... present a deconstruction and counter argument rather than a 'lol dumbass'. Who knows... maybe it will catch on. Oh and apols to those that do take the time to make considered replies. It's those posts (agree or disagree) that keep me keep me checking in.