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There are very good reasons to expect a far, far better on-field performance this year. 1. There are teams which are in dire circumstances. St.Kilda have lost Hayes, Goddard, Montagna, Milne and Dal Santo from their best side of past years. They gave away McEvoy and have pinned ALL their hopes on the draft. Surely, we have shown that you cannot rely on that re-building process alone. Footscray have seen 2 of their best players in Cooney and Griffen leave for other pastures. Something wrong at the kennel when the coach gets sacked and they throw over $1m at a kid who has had a total of 30 possessions in his AFL career. Even Scully was better than that. Signs of desperation when the President is doing the drafting... GWS are now seeing the Scully effect as good players desert the club who can't pay them more. Expect nothing more from them in the coming year. GC are dependant upon G.Ablett totally. He still has a dodgy shoulder and while back training can't handle the ball with one arm. Not good when great players are sidelined,but without him they simply can't win. 2. There are a couple of clubs in decline ( as there always are). Carlton have finally learnt that players can no longer be purchased, and the Judd experiment is coming to an end, having failed. Without Malthouses guile they would have finished further down the ladder last year. Having lost Waite and Garlett who were 2 of their leading goal kickers in 2014, it is hard to see even Mick keeping them competitive. Collingwood have lost 2 of their top 4 B&F finishers from last year,in Lumumba and Beams. Swan is either disinterested or injured or both, and Eddies experiment is falling apart. Richmond bolstered their list with the likes of Rance, Maric, Houli, Jackson and Grigg a couple of years ago. It put them into finals but only while these players were on the field. We saw what happened last year when they didn't. And then the Toiyges didn't trade at all. For a team that fell into the finals, surely trying to add something to the list was essential to getting any further. Their fragility was exposed when we were able to beat them last year, and Port gave them a football lesson in the finals, so expecting no less for 2015. Freo have taken the big gamble to keep Pavlich, McPharlin and Sandilands on the park for one last tilt. Or it could collapse catastrophically if it doesn't work. Essendon face a disastrous on-field year if the findings of the Tribunal/ASADA/WADA fall against them. No-one knows what is going on at Adelaide, looks like Ricciuto is running the club from outside. Sacking the coach or losing players. Not a formula for future success. So overall, it won't take much for us to improve in 2015. A finals tilt is possible because we have already matched it with a number of last years finalists. There are teams on the way down,and teams staying cemented in the bottom 4. We should have won more games last year especially those we were leading in the final quarter. Success isn't that far away. Finals are a real possibility.

Keen to get my fellow DL members thoughts on what I believe was a wonderful result with Pick 23 in the latest trade / draft period. Trading it to GWS for Frost, Pick 40 and 53 allowed us to get three young talents from a 2nd round pick which was a master stroke. To then get ANB at 40 and Oscar at 53, both of whom were predicted 2nd round talents themselves, I don't think we could have asked for anymore from the List Mgt team. Frost, ANB and Oscar is a great package for 23 as it includes two young KPP, when Saints get only one in Goddard for 21. Paying under the odds for Stretch at 42 and having Petracca slide to us only adds to a fantastic draft, giving Roos and Goodwin plenty to work with over the next 5 years. Who else agrees??

and while you're thinkin about that, think about this: the talk at the time very strongly indicated that we were looking to nab a big name (Dangerfield/J.Kennedy) by throwing that pick 23 along with pick 3 AND the pick received by trading Trengove (12?).. so it's quite possible by JT failing that medical, we missed a big name but ended up with Brayshaw, Trengove, Frost, ANB and O-Mac ALL instead of that one marquee player. Could be a huge blessing in disguise.

I've sensed a real belief emerging amongst the players that they're as good as any chance to make the eight this year. Comments from interviews, tweets, training reports etc suggest to me that the team is really expecting a quantum leap in improvement. Maybe they know something we don't? It's probably a bit fantastical but I do like the concept that last year was all about refining the defensive strategies and maintaining possession of the footy by any means, which sometimes looked clumsy and ultimately resulted in cheap turnover goals to the opposition. There's been a lot of talk about the offensive side of the game plan being introduced in the latter half of last season but as evidenced by the results, the team's success of that was pretty limited but glimpses were definitely shown. I guess the optimist in me hopes that last year was part of a staged offensive strategy, albeit limited by a lack of forward targets and F50 entries in which hampered the desired effect and just made the team look plain bad. So the key for me is a fit and full squad. There's no secret to this and all senior coaches speak of it as critical in any clubs push for finals football. We hit round 1 with a team of really fit, best 22 players, then I believe we can mix it with any team but still fall well short of the top 4 - 6 clubs when the heat is really on. Maybe it's a biased view in that I know our list reasonable well, but I consider the core of skilful youngsters on MFC's list to be better than other clubs. But like I said, I'm not as familiar with opposition lists. If we have a good season on the injury front and the offensive side of the game steps up I reckon we can sneak into the eight.

This is plainly wrong. He's one of the few Melbourne players people know because of the hype surrounding him. Hogan is on the same profile level as Boyd and Daniher (whom he will be compared against for the rest of his career). Any supporter who doesn't know who Hogan is would have to be living in a cave. He's THE biggest reason to be excited about what's to come. I think Toumpas will be the surprise packet of 2015, because of how widely he has been written off as another high pick failure.

Have to say I like the look of Frost.

My most optimistic guess is 7 wins. Not final 8 material but a vast improvement. Seven wins, no floggings and the emergence of some players would provide a springboard for a big 2016.

All the mid field must have been given the 100 - 100's HL was seen at vic park doing them. Encouraged by his girlfriend telling him it's not good enough do more. Viv Michie has also done it. He is wrapped the mid field is so strong. Everyone is pushing each other along. He is very fit and is confident he can land a mid field / flank position to call his own.

I posted this on BF yesterday in a thread on equalisation - slightly related to the discussion here but thought the findings on crowd numbers was pretty interesting so worth pointing out anyway. It was in response to someone saying Melbourne doesn't take Queens Bday game seriously... http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/equalisation-policy-2015.1084880/page-23

The Casey move seems to be another of Schwabs "build it and they will come" plans. I fail to see how training out there occasionally, visiting some schools and having a poor alignment with the local VFL side is going to recruit new supporters to the club. If it was a new area to footy we were targeting fair enough but this is only half an hour or so from the CBD. Unlikely to be too many unaligned people out there.

From where we're coming from 8-9 wins is a realistic aim ... and if a team is good enough to get to 8-9 wins then it is usually good enough to get to 11-12 wins (there's not a great deal of difference between the 2 categories) I've always felt that a team needs at least 6 very good players (or A grade, A+) to be able to make the finals ... depth needs to be decent as well to make the finals (the last 6 picked in any given week need to be able to play a bit or play a role) So, there's a "formula" involved whether we want to accept that or not ... some supporters dream big and others prefer to take a far more conservative view but the players and everyone associated with the club needs to believe that we're capable of winning any game. Winning is often about belief but without enough good players, it's hard to win. We need a number of players to take more than one step up - that's entirely possible. We've seen a countless amount of players take a quantum leap before - we just need to see that happen at our club. Again, there's no reason why that can't happen. There isn't one player on our list who can't improve - some more so than others. Above all else, Roos needs to breed a good level of confidence within the group - we need to start believing in ourselves. Us supporters can really only hope for the best. I'd also like to see the team play in a far more direct fashion.

The idea of Casey is good, the biggest problem is that Melbourne have been terrible in the time we have been associated with Casey.

The idea that you must aspire for the ultimate and nothing else was fine when the code was essentially amateur and it belongs to that era which is now long gone. These days you need to have realistic expectations and that's why you don't hear the good coaches talking about premierships - certainly not at this stage of the journey. Even Alastair Clarkson would be talking at this point in time about making the top four and then "we'll see what happens from there". I started this thread not so much to discuss what we should be aiming for but rather, what would be a realistic expectation. I think we all expect improvement. I'm generally an optimist on these things and base my expectations on how far we can go given that a few things go our way - like having a fit and healthy list throughout the season, getting up in the close games, meeting opponents who would normally be beatable at the right time and other factors - call it "the stars aligning". If the players get the Roos game plan as they eventually did back in 1975 with Skilton and can start playing some good consistent football, I don't think that 10 wins and perhaps a couple more would be beyond expectations.

We certainly have an improved look with a mix of experience and youth. We have a solid core of 23-26 year who have exhibited good skills spasmodically. We appear to have more competition for spots through the squad. This depth provides cover for injury. We have a coaching team that provides the necessary support and advice for players. We have a coach with a proven record of success We have supporters who are hungy for success and have shown all the traits that our players need to inspire them to perform including persistence and resilience. The players need to perform to their maximum ability and must leave the ground each week having exhausted themselves. The above support team will manage them through to the next encounter selecting the right team to match the following week. Those who perform best constantly will be played constantly, those who need rest and recuperation will have it with adequate replacement. If the resources are managed we can easily make it to the eight irrespective of how much other clubs have improved. We are then in the finals and a new season begins. Again We have a coach who has been there and knows how to get the best from the team ANYTHING can happen GO DEES

There are no more off field excuses These things have all been dealt with. It is now up to the players to see how far they want to push themselves...

Disappointing life you must have. Stay away from buses.

The site needs a lot of work. I know that the VAFA sought a joint venture (money) with the City of Bayside to improve basic facilities like change rooms for the umpires. A similar arrangement (VFL, City of Bayside, SFC, State Gov?) resulted in a redevelopment of the Trevor Barker reserve club rooms facility at Sandy FC. The kind of facilities that an AFL club would want would require millions. I cant see a Labor state government coming up with that kind of money as its not in a marginal or heartland seat (I think its in the seat of Brighton - Liberal Louise Asher). The ground itself although big was (is) in serious need of water and possibly resurfacing. On the plus side I thought the demographic centre of the demon supporter base was somewhere like Bentleigh - not far away. Certainly if you get the Sandy line train to the G there are plenty of us going to games. Finally is the convenience of the players any consideration? These guys are on big pay packets and they live in ritzy suburbs (dont they?). No offense to denizens of Casey but maybe not there - possibly inner suburbs. Maybe the players dont like the commute to Casey - it certainly deters me from going to scorp games.

Really....the ratio is not important. What is important is that this site is probably the most active among all AFL supporter sites with hundreds of active members. Just look at the numbers post match or during the lead up to drafts. It's one of the reasons we had to upgrade services over the years....we were just getting so much demand. And isn't it great for the fans that a club that has had so little success in recent times can find such a common focus to vent their spleen/passion. Finally, when Andy and Nasher ask for your support to keep the site up to date and help defray the cost of running it, we hope that all those people can find a couple of bucks to keep it all going.

Get to know: Who is shaping as a surprise packet at your club in 2015? And the nomination for Melbourne is ...

Shockingly thin contribution when weighed against previous works but this from Christmas bonbon and not entirely without merit I am told Q. How do you turn a dishwasher into a snow digger ? A. Give her a shovel

what this board needs is more hipsters i've got my best people working on it......

I really hope Toump has a breakout year.

Yep, and whilst none of their fans would happily admit it, they wanted their team to tank that game and indeed, their team did tank ... not well enough though hey? Amazing how 1 goal can change the course of hstory. Of course, a couple of weeks later in that year we smashed Freo in a game which didn't effect that priority pick but if McMahon had have missed that goal that day I'm tipping the course of events that followed would have been vastly different. The Tigers would have almost certainly got the no.1 pick and they probably would have taken Scully. We would have probably only had the no.2 pick (without a priority pick) and it's doubtful there would have ever been the tanking investigation. Well, that's in theory anyway. I goal and a matter of seconds made all the difference.

Toumpas. He is going to be the one.

Richmond supporters have a massive chip on their shoulder about us in particular I think stemming from THAT game in 2009. I actually like Richmond they're my second team if there is such a thing. But yeah their supporters can be a bit touched in the head. A lot (though not all) of the West Australians on BF are a bit "special" too.

A good year for us is if we are able to get ourselves out of the bottom 4.

Our first five opponents (their previous two weeks where applicable) and location: 12th Gold Coast - MCG 16th Giants (St Kilda - Away) - Canberra 10th Adelaide (North - Home, Collingwood - Away) - Adelaide 8th Richmond (Bulldogs - Home, Brisbane - Away) - MCG 4th Fremantle (West Coat - Home, Sydney - Home) - MCG We need to win early to provide momentum and to offset and perhaps reduce late season form fluctuation. Last year, finishing 17th, we beat 13th, 10th, 8th and 7th placed teams. We lost to Gold Coast by 8 points and let GWS run away with the last quarter after being 7 points down at 3/4 time. Our defense was strong last year - in scores against we ranked 11th. I'm confident that the defense will continue to do its job and be better aided by recruits, our midfield and some increased scoreboard pressure from our forwards. Much has rightly been made of our inability to score consistently. Previously it was our inability to get the ball forward. Dawes' absence in round one will not help, but his presence thereafter will be invaluable. Garlett and Hogan (amongst the regulars) should be able to capitalise on Kent and Lumumba bombs and a more mature midfield delivery. Watts precision will be required and Bail, with eyes lowered, will give the team ample score assists. How far can we go? I'll be disappointed if we don't win eight games but if I see the application, the intent and the team capability improvements continue from last year I'll be at least comforted that steady progress in being made.

Much and all as I repect Danger, I think Miss Hoog has gone to your ..... err head Curry!

Way too early to call, which is bleedingly obvious. Appears good on paper.

The trade looked a bad deal before Barry retired and Evans was delisted. But it ended up to be fantastic.

I'd like to see some of the surprise packets from 2014 step up another notch again. Nev Jetta, Pedo, Kent, even Fitzy showed some promise. Wouldn't it be great for our depth if the more highly rated guys were regularly challenged for a spot in the 22 by these players? No more passengers.

All in all a very astute draft. Plus the trade period picking up HL, Garlett,and Newton (on top of Frost) wasn't too shabby also [especially when nobody thought we still retained Clark to trade]!

Trying to have a logical discussion with a tiger supporter about footy is often a fruitless task - they've got chips on their shoulders the size of boulders and they often possess a nasty streak that is Collingwood like ... and I come across a lot of them. All supporters have their traits don't they? Or "perceived" traits. I don't mind most of the jibes that come our way but the bit that annoys me is our supposed lack of loyalty and how our supporters are somehow at fault because of our lack of success on the field (of late) It's just pure rot. What on earth could we have done as supporters to make the team play better? Cheer louder?

Final eight! (I am calling it now!)

In the initial negotiations with Casey we committed to a 20 year arrangement. I'm not sure whether the commitment was purely a commitment to use the property ( for summer training etc) or a commitment to support the Casey Scorpions. If it is the latter I can live with it as long as we control all on-field decisions. I would like to re-badge the team the "Casey Demons" to make it very clear that we intend to stay. There is significant development taking place in the area - and it is the gateway to the growing Gippsland region. Given our poor on-field performance over the last few years, we would have struggled to grow supporters from a VFL presence anywhere in the State especially in the Eastern suburbs where Hawthorn has its stronghold. Us Demonlanders don't particularly like driving out to Casey. The question is how many '000's of footy fans 20 years from now will enjoy the short drive in to Casey to support Melbourne!. If the intention is to retain the Scorpion logo as a throw back to the Springvale roots of the club - and as a sign that Melbourne has only a "loose" affiliation which won't outlast the minimum contractual obligation, then I'd back a move back towards the city asap. I'm very keen to know Jackson's view of the Casey arrangement.Surely It is fundamental to our player development program. Are we committed - or are we just biding our time until we have the $$$ to field our own team?

Again as soon as a balanced discussion is offered, drongos chime in with "anything less than" ultimatums that make any criticisms just a fan to flames. Its no wonder many Demonland members just look on and cant be stuffed offering less than perfect scenarios.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=enyaw

More ENYAW.

No I'm not serious I made it up. And yes having the ability to burst through a tackle is a great attribute to have but I would have after being able to kick the footy. What sets J.Selwood and Mitchell, J Kennedy(the penny dropped for Jones this year) and others apart is having the ability to think their way through what's before them. Sometimes trying to burst your way through is the best option but sometimes it's not, sometimes it's a sidestep, sometimes it's the give and get. If you are always relying on brut strength you will quickly get found out and found wanting as used to be the case for Jones. He has become a much smarter footballer and we are a better team for it. I think Viney will be a gun but as I said I see a lot of a young Nate Jones in him. Viney is always like a bull at a gate. I love the fact he's aggressive and takes the game on, but he just needs to pick his moments. We will see who's right in a few years.

Why would you want to [censored] up an overseas sojourn by watching our shite side?

I hope You give your crack a wax before it goes to print Jazza

I think it's easy to skim over stuff you don't want to read for whatever reason. Most members have other posters whose content they like, perhaps Saty for training (!) or WJ for his feature articles or others who have links with interesting sources. Sane people will also have numerous posters on ignore, I'm sure I'm on a few. I dislike the "if you don't like what I say the don't read it" mentality of some, but IMO it's not hard to skim over what doesn't appeal rather than let it get to you. This place would be pretty sterile if we eliminated all humour, sidetracks, slap downs, giffs, etc, particularly in the off season. Anyway, there will be more members log in once the season starts and we get a couple of wins on the board. My New Years resolution is to minimise personal and negative comments towards other posters. Except towards BBO, because he's a right [censored].

Agree that it's helped to grow the game, opening up new opportunities for players and crowds alike. As you say, it's not going to bring the downfall of test cricket, although it's interesting to think how this new form of the game can have unintended consequences, such as Smithy noted in the other thread re teaching his grandkids how to bat in the classical fashion in an era when no stroke is considered too outrageous. Also worth noting that tennis is about to launch its own short-form game, 4tennis or something.

what connection does Elsteernwick have to the Melbourne Football Club? Answer - nothing Can we set up home, and stay in the heart of Melbourne please for [censored] sake We aren't the Elsternwick Demons, or the Casey Demons we are the MELBOURNE DEMONS

Quite excited to get H into our backline. Sure a lot of the time he runs and then bombs it, but that isn't a bad thing for us, as we currently turn the ball over in the mid-field or half-back line. Heretier will at least kick it over the midfield and hopefully up to our forward line, allowing our defenders more time to reset and better defend the incoming turnover. Better to turn it over 100m away from goal than 50-60m!

I think a lot of the people who just look in, then move on, would be checking for any interesting fragments of information and training reports. But seriously, with the snarky, surly, personal tone that so many threads here degenerate into, it's not exactly a surprise that people think "Nah, I'm not going to get into that." I'd endorse a 'mod rule' that authorised a simple blanking/deleting of any comment that includes sniping lines like "Where you even at the same game? / You clearly have no idea about football / what would you know / only an idiot would" and so on. People would be perfectly welcome to repost their point, of course. In fact, a brief period of summertime enforcement would reset the tone quickly, ready to welcome passing strangers as the season gets closer. All that said, things do improve this time of year, everyone is in a better mood after the draft!

Of course. As a footballer you should train 24/7 so if supporters ever spot you having some fun you won't be deemed to be 'unprofessional'.

As much as I admire Angus' dedication and commitment in running 100 100's I'm not sure why he is singled out as being someone special when I would expect the whole list not in rehab to be putting in the same work. What I am impressed with now is that it appears that we have players that are far more focused on being the best that they can possibly be. This is a big change from the Bailey years. I give a small thanks to Mark Neeld in starting to change that mind shift.