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14.2 sounds good on paper but his defensive acts and tackle count was low. We don't need players who just kick goal after goal.

Additionally, if you needed further evidence that the disposal efficiency statistic is a complete waste of space, look no further than this game. Melbourne 77%, Hawthorn 75%.

A human that smiles when he greets a friend - imagine that. What a disgrace.

You don't think Watts works hard? Perhaps you should ask Roos at a presser about the workload that is asked of a HFF in today's game and how much Watts is doing to be in a position to be not kicked to properly in the forward line, to having little help on centre wing, to be pushed off the footy on the HBF. And you are looking for 'indications'? You have already made your mind up on Watts - this smiling flap is just a selective and sideways argument to hang him further.

have a looked at the play where Dom Barry kicked to Gawn in the goal square . Dom had to attack the loose ball with a Hawk player coming at him the opposite way and Hill on his tail He didn't flinch, took possession and with only a spit second to make the play he hit Gawn with a clever kick - resulting in a Demon goal very nice play edit - heres the play http://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2014/20/haw-v-melb

Expectation is a funny thing as a footy fan. On face value, you would think that you’d be far happier after a game in which you lead a side by 14 points in the last quarter than another game that was effectively over at half time and in truth you were never really in. But I was extremely disappointed after last week’s loss to Brisbane, whereas I felt reasonably content with the performance yesterday. It all comes down to expectation really – last week I thought we should have comfortably defeated an inferior opposition at home, whereas this week I was expecting a 60-70 point loss. I know it’s not accurate to break a game down like this, but take out the 20 minute burst of five goals from Hawthorn in the second term and the score is 12 goals to 9. So for a bit over three quarters we were reasonably competitive against the top side, a side who have routinely belted us over the years. That five goal burst was started by a terrible Matt Jones error – the kind of mistake the top teams just don’t make. Now I know it would be fair to say that Hawthorn weren’t at their best and were probably just cruising through the majority of the game, but I have seen this mob systematically destroy us over the last seven years. I was even at Casey for the practice match this season, when they beat us by 100-odd points in what was just one-way traffic all game. It was absolutely terrible. Let’s be honest here, on talent alone they are miles ahead of us and it’s no surprise that they are going to beat us. They are simply better. But there’s a huge difference between getting beaten by a better team and going down fighting hard as opposed to dropping your bundle and getting hammered. Thankfully yesterday was the former and that’s really all you can ask for from your footy team. I think the other thing to emerge from the game is that it really highlighted the areas we have improved in and the areas we need to get better in. Apart from that five goal burst our defensive intent was reasonably good, we matched them in the clearances and the contested ball and we didn’t lack for effort. All areas they would have smashed us in last year. But while we have improved markedly inside the contest, we really struggle outside the contest. We got beaten in uncontested ball and for me the key difference between the sides was Hawthorn’s ability to run, spread, hit targets and move the ball with speed and accuracy on the outside, whereas we struggled to move the ball with the same speed and fluency. It’s not that we don’t want to move the ball that way, it’s just that we don’t have the run, speed and skill level in our line up to execute it. It really highlighted once again the our focus for recruiting should be on class midfielders who are good ball users and who can run. Salem and Toumpas will hopefully develop into these types of players which would be of enormous help, but we still need more. The other positives came in the form of inclusions Michie, Gawn and Barry who all showed a bit, and Pig Dog was very effective coming on as the sub. He lacks pace and is a little messy, but he tackles to hurt and is as hard as his nick name suggests. He needs to work on his running but hopefully that will come with another pre-season as he overcomes his broken leg last year. So, all in all, another loss to the Hawks, but a really honest performance that showed the gains we have made this year and highlighted the areas we need to improve.

Give me a bloody break, Vince was smiling during the game after acting like a step ladder for poppy. After every game, players from every team smile and talk to each other about what they're up to. This is a beat up, pure and simple. And a pathetic one at that.

when he learns to butcher the ball, we might consider him biffo

Keep in mind they've both played under 5 AFL games each. Seems we're developing them properly, and holding them back in the twos until they start playing their roles consistently well. The same can't be said for a host of others on our list who have been developed poorly and who have less ability than these two. Confidence is a huge thing for younger guys trying to break into a best 22 and I'm sure Dom and Michie would be feeling good about their contributions yesterday which is a really positive thing for the way they'll approach the next game.

I'm going to continue gushing here, because, hey, we have to look for the positives. One other thing I really liked about Jetta's game today was that when he made that poor skill error and kicked it on the full, he looked filthy on himself. Okay. Many an MFC player looks filthy on themselves when they make an error. I'd hope to see that, so that's merely a start. It's how he proceeded to play after this error that impressed me so much. He didn't go into his shell, he didn't drop his head. He stayed focus and the next time he was near the ball, he crunched an opposition player with a thunderous tackle. It was really pleasing to see him lay another two or three crunching tackles after this moment too. I think this example really bodes well for his future. He appears to be a bloke that continually demands more of himself. It's terrific. He's found his position now. He has such great balance and strength in the hips. Oh and I really enjoyed that interception in front of Roughead later on in the game. He read it quickly and moved with a blistering burst of speed to get back into the area. His name should be one of the first on the team sheet every week, if he keeps this form up. Well done, Nev. You've really turned your career around. A little credit should probably go to Roosy too, for his faith earlier in the season.

If you think it matters that Watts was caught grinning for a second after the game, you're a dead set goose. It does not mean he is unprofessional. It does not mean he is not disappointed, or happy with the result. Just because you want to kick the cat when we lose does not mean everyone must. It was an instant caught on camera. I'd bet money a player on every losing side, every week, has a laugh with the opposition at the end.

Go right ahead and talk about him, but posting a picture of him smiling with Shiels after a game as they have a chat, which most players do, only brings the Watts bashers out of the woodwork to spend there time going on and on about the usual and clogging up the thread.

Agree. The ins this week have upside the outs don't.

I believe that Pedersen's injury will keep him out for more than the one week. Salem should come into the side if Jack Grimes isn't ready. Otherwise, our line up should be fairly stable. Expect GWS to ring in a few changes after their poor form against North. Several heads could roll or possibly be injured to ensure they make a fist of winning the Petracca Cup. I expect Paul Roos to respond by going more defensive than ever and the result to be decided by a penalty shoot out at the end.

WYL this is going to continue until we recruit 2 or 3 stars into the team and fill out the mid field/solve the forward line situation which has nothing dangerous about it whatsoever from a goal kicking point of view. We all hope Hulk comes good to alleviate this a little obviously. But we need speed, skill and class up forward as well (ie., crumbers/mid field goal kicking danger players). This might be organically from current list ie., Tyson/Hulk... or into the future. But until this happens we will never be more than a bottom feeding filler on the AFL's pre determined/managed Foxtel driven fixture/ladder. Just enjoy your Hols mate and make the most of it. If Roos can't turn it around we'll probably be pushing up daisies before this club threatens for finals or wonder of wonders, ever becomes a power house once more.

Please Redleg I was enjoying today

note..by a team that WE beat on THEIR Home turf..Funny game footy

Dermie and Eddie Everywhere nearly had me throwing a decent glass of shiraz at TV yesterday. Dermie ..... FMD!

Then take the win Redleg Kreuzer did not turn out anything wonderful. Win win win it is the attitude that counts not the draft position

Saw that showed some real fast pace there was very impressed!Leave him Gawn and Michie for the rest of the year I reckon. Get some games and confidence into them.

I watched the game and found Dom Barry okay when he was involved in the play. He ran hard both ways, was part of a few useful linking plays out of the backline and used it well when he got it. He looked lost at times, yet other times read the play well. Look, he has a long way to go, but the fact he started on the ground and was odds on to be subbed and wasn't (that honor went to Bail) shows he is progressing.Given he signed a new deal, I was happy to see some of the progress the club obviously sees with him. Gawn must play the final 3 rounds. I think the Russian's best football is now behind him, and I think he might have one year left in the tank, two at best. That leaves the cupboard bare for ruck prospects outside of Gawn. He needs to be thrust into the #1 ruck role sooner rather than later. Outside of Gawn there are some question marks of Spencer and Fitzy, and King is miles off. If Gawn isn't ready for the #1 job by the end of next season we are going to struggle moving forward. Jetta gave Puopolo a bath! If he had played 20 rounds this year he would be a lock for an AA backman.

Haters gotta hate

Trolls night out? Hawks are top of the table or thereabouts, we found a few who can play against contenders , we've got 1/2 a dozen NQR we know about and a couple who have had plenty of chances were sorted from previous week. Prefer it to last week thanks.

Strange that there is so little love for Jack, He had 17 disposals at 94.1% efficiency, how many others got close, frawley had 14 disposals at 50%, Kent had 9 disposals, etc... Jack was far from the worst, he is an outside player but everyone is cursing him for not winning every contest. A few weeks ago everyone was cursing Maxy for his game at full forward, when the fault was not max's it was the way we were delivering it, today we delivered it to his strength, i.e. up high. Jack needs to be used on the outside to get be best out of him.

Barry played his best game for the club

I must admit I didn't watch much of the game but the emphasis of this discussion being on an 18yo getting 4 possessions is misplaced. It's the whole thing that Roos was saying at the start of the year that we expect too much of our younger players every week. He's young, he's going to have a bad game, I couldn't give a stuff because I know that if Roos feels that the best learning curve is for him to go back to the VFL then so be it but given his track record it wouldn't surprise me if JKH fronts up next week vs GWS and is given a chance to make amends. The Watts bashing is predictable, and in some instances not wrong, but the school of thought that I subscribe to is as frustrating as he is he is still the best person we have at the releasing kick from half back to half forward. His inability to tackle likely won't improve a whole lot, someone suggested he needs to get to the gym and work on his upper body, honestly I reckon we've got as much muscle we can get on him. The difference between him and say Pederson is the desire to tackle, I can't see that being altered a whole lot. What little I saw wasn't horrific, last week was. Even that chain of handballs that gave me multiple heart attacks was at least a sign that they can on occasion take the game on. Dawes is still a problem, but at least he got more of the ball. My B&F tip has changed with Tyson to finish runner up to Jones, and honestly I think it could be closer than some would expect given his last month. Please god let us have this one turn into a star!

I'd pitch in red back for WYL....someone has to post about 186

Yeah we could recruit Jurrah, Bootsma, Mitch Robinson and give ourselves a whole new look.

In all reality, 2 more off seasons are needed if we're fair dinkum about restructuring our list properly. We've got a core of players who can make our W/L record a lot better (say, progressing to at least 8-10 wins next season ) but ... we badly need an influx of genuine talent if we're going to contend in the top half of the ladder. No startling news there but what has hamstrung our club in the past is the way we overrate our players (both from a supporters point of view and a clubs point of view) The good news is that Roos isn't the type to overrate a player and the future looks a lot brighter for our club because he thinks that way. Roos is an excellent judge of a footballer and we hired a lot more than just a match day coach. He, along with Viney, Stone and co just need the time to sort things out. There are no quick fixes but if we draw some comparisons to last year's off season, we're well and truly on the right track.

Roos and co. play their cards pretty close to their chest in regards to trades and who we are interested in. While there was speculation that we were interested in a variety of GWS players last year we didn't know it was Tyson until the moment it happened. Same can be said for Vince as well. I'm confident that the club are interested and pursuing a variety of players who can improve our squad. I can't see them chasing guys for the sake of it - if there isn't anyone worth getting then I believe the club will simply go the draft and look at getting players into the club who can help take us forward.

Always that one person..

I'd give him permission to train just to give Roh Bail the chance to run through him.

Happy to say he's tiring, but Dom Barry was spent halfway through the second quarter but continued to put in 100%. I'd rather be giving games to JKH than Blease/Tapscott/McKenzie/Strauss/Terlich, but I want to see JKH at least look like he wants to be out there.

Every player is different, look at how riley, Jetta and Dawes tackle why does the whole team not do that, because they are all different and have different approaches. If you look at lack of tackles have a look at some of our backline players who rarely tackle and they have the ball down their end more so that our forwards and wingers but they are usually pretty effective. Tackling is important but so is getting the ball and using it properly Watts did that about 17 times yesterday also 6th most contested possession winner, so he is in there winning the ball. The fact that he seems to do some things so effortlessly makes you want to see him do more.

think Watts seems to lack upper body strength. His tackles don't stick and players break away from him easily. Needs to pump more iron.

He is a very frustrating player to us especially as he was the number 1 pick. I thought his first quarter was much harder at the ball than I have seen all year. Then later he lapsed back into nonchalance. He is interesting. Playing for hawthorn with their delivery he would kick 50 goals a year without changing too much and still having the same amount of possessions. He has so much talent and so little desperation for the ball and the contest.

I agree ddBut you say that like we have numerous alternatives at Casey.

You won't. Wait till you see their side. They want Petracca. A win for us is assured as in the Kreuzer cup.

British and American sports commentators act like true professionals, Australian sports commentators act like amateur entertainers.

I think there are probably a whole lot to be honest, I reckon Roos has a core group he thinks can take the club forward, I think the rest are now trying to prove why they deserve their spot on the list I think we are going to be extremely active in trade week as Roos will want to address a few serious needs

The Hoff was also much maligned for yeas before things clicked for him. I do agree with you that Watts would benefit from better teammates. If we had Trav or Yze (or both) in the side he'd regularly be leading out to accurate first time passes instead of making endless leads that get ignored before finding himself in a rolling scrum where he can't use any of his strengths. If we had a HB who had the skill and vision to see him leading out of HF and hit him Watts would be regularly racking up 25+ disposals.

I saw David Mundy smile as he shook hands with an opponent after the game. How unprofessional was that?

Each of our players was playing against a TOP opponent and had team mates that fully supported each other, the analysis above would suggest we lost by 100+ points. A lot of players did not get a lot of stats but did their bit, i thought it was a pretty good team effort marred by our inability to get the ball into our forward line often enough and lack of ball skill which resulted in us missing targets and turning the ball over frequently.

We did quite well today. We would have beaten at least a half a dozen other sides on the G today but the Hawks are on another stratosphere in terms of quality. There were some obvious differences between the 2 sides but our lack of a dominant forward was telling whereas for them, they've got Roughhead. Put 2 decent KPF's in our team and we would have gotten a lot closer. Hogan & ? are needed if we're going to get to 10-12 wins. Dawes is an ideal 3rd forward. If Frawley stays, we might have to make do with Hogan, Dawes & Frawley as our 3 KPF's. We also need 2 or 3 more quality mids and some better distributors off half back. Michie & Barry showed a bit of promise today which was pleasing. Riley also did ok with limited game time and big Max had a very good game. We bring that sort of game next week and we'll win and ... we can also beat the Eagles & North in the last 2 games if we play with that same level of intensity. Our skills were much better today but we were up against an extremely well drilled, quality outfit. We were far from disgraced.

His disposal efficiency is so high because he is a very good kick and often handpasses when under the slightest amount of pressure. That means he rarely turns it over, but he rarely takes any risks with his disposal. And it's what he does when he DOESN'T have the ball that's got me in such a tizzy. I reckon Hawthorn kicked three goals in the first quarter alone as a direct result of Jack's poor defensive pressure. He is a vital part of our zone defence when he plays in our d50, but he doesn't have the urgency required to apply physical pressure to his nearest opponent when he has to, which means that whoever it is (whether it be Isaac Smith or anyone else) has ample time to dice us up.

No, I wont give him a break any longer. Yes he does what you say but ... he will never win a hardball, he will rarely tackle with aggression, he will not inspire, he will not turn a game. He is a receiver. We need blokes who can take the game by the scruff of the neck. His ability is terrific but it is wasted.

Give Watts a break, he is running all over the place trying to give leads and get into the game, only 6 players had more possessions than him, only 6 players had more contested possessions than him. Top for delivery efficiency. What does he have to do before people give him a break.

And Nev Jetta was outstanding. Easily the best defender on the ground and comfortably in the top 5 players on the ground too.

The Melbourne members end of the ground was packed with Hawthorn, 1 to 5, I reckon. I guess I don't begrudge those who have given up, but it seems unfair to think that those of us who still go week in week out, will reap the same reward when the tide eventually turns our way. The MCG is our ground and we were severely outnumbered. Gives me the shits.

Gawn's game was excellent, our mids worked really hard despite being outclassed and Nev Jetta is a legend. However I was really happy with Dom Barry's game - he had 17 touches, had a hand in a goal or two and didn't look out of place. I'm not going over the top and saying he will be a player for us but the kid did his role well and contributed to the side, something I wasn't sure he had the capacity to do at this stage of his career.