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Its funny how people have this big love of obsession for big midfielders etc.. Freo who are noted for them haven't won a flag with them yet. Hawthorn won the flag last year with Mitchell 178cm Hill 182cm Sewell 181cm Shiels 183cm Rioli 177cm and a Puopolo 173cm all running through the midfield. They have Hodge and Lewis who are both 186cm tall and weigh 90 kg.. and thats it Look at Syndey the year they won the flag. Kennedy of course is a big bodied midfielder but Jack, Hannerbery, Jetta and Mcviegh are all under 183 cm tall. We have Tyson Vince Cross Mckenzie Michie Trengove who are all avarage height at about 186cm tall. Its an obsession thats getting a bit out of hand. Go for the best midfielder regardless of heigh.

So what's the ball going to do? Sit in the centre square all day?

On the subject of father/sons (and I know this might be a little premature) but one of my grandsons played in his competition's lightning premiership on Sunday and I've been flicking through the programme and come up with an interesting name for the South Melbourne Under 9 Whites - Tiernan Stynes. There's a lot of water to flow under the bridge and it must be so hard for the little bloke without his dad but what a great story it would make if he ran onto the G one day in red and blue with the number 11 on his back.

If people are frustrated by Vince's disposal efficiency (DE) they shouldn't be. The numbers don't tell the full story. Rather than handpass the ball to a stationary target or give the ball off to a player who is probably going to be under pressure, Vince often likes to instead gain metres for the team by getting the ball moving our way (by foot) Only problem with that is that our players often play from behind so Vince's kicks can sometimes result in a turnover. If our forwards and those forward of the ball can play in front a lot more, watch his DE soar. As it stands, I believe he's right up there in metres gained anyway. I like his no-nonsense approach. He's a very good player - smart, has footy nous, reads the play well and uses the ball better than many of our other players. He's a B or B+ player and we should be thankful that we've got him for a few years. An excellent swap for Sylvia as its turned out (a virtual swap)

I went to training for a while this morning. It was awesome to see Hogan in full flight. What a man mountain, a very fast and agile man mountain!!! Think he will make a debut in the last couple of games. I can't wait!

Bernie has done more in one season with us than Col did in his entire career.

Regardless of what you think of some players, this is really pushing decency, let alone the Demonland Code of Conduct that says players should be afforded some respect.

Hird will never coach another AFL game again or any other sport

Think he hit a target at training and then fainted and then hit his head.

I sense a presence Anyone had someone pass over recently ? Name starts with letter They want you to know to not worry about someone. ..someone who's name is J..... Damn...lost it. Well there you have it....don't worry !

Ridiculous post. Ablett's out for the year with an injured shoulder. Don't you know anything?

Steve - it's not just you I will bite back at. Again - you can debate his worth all you like and whether you want him to stay or not - but I will ask two questions. Continue to underperform ?? no 2 on our goalkicking, no 1 marks for the club overall, no 1 on average marks per game, no 3 on contested marks, no 2 on marks inside 50, no 3 on inside 50's ( means he is working hard as a lead up forward), ranked 7th in dreamteam and 4th in supercoach ( i don't really rate these systems as reflective of a players true worth). Would you possibly like to revise your post ? Is he in AA form ? No. Could he play better ? Yes, Calling him an underperformer ? Poor leadership - please elaborate. Do I think he is great leader ? probably not. Do I think he should be in the LG - probably not. But again we don't really have full insight. Just because a player is not a great leader - doesn't follow that he is a poor leader. I would like to know why you think he is "poor" leader. Please tell me what you think opposition clubs will see in his attitude ? What opposition clubs will see is a player that is a "cleanskin" - doesn't come with baggage like your Heath Shaws, like your Fevola's. He trains, he plays, he doesn't miss too many games through injury. tick. What opposition clubs will see is a player who can is quick and can play against bigs and has had some success against smalls. tick. What opposition clubs will see is a player who can swing both ends of the ground. tick. What opposition clubs will see is a player who is still off his best AA form from years back. Cross. What opposition clubs will see is a player who can turn the ball over, can make dumb decisions and doesn't really hurt oppositions with his foot and hand skills. Cross. And again, won't argue with posters that feel he won't be missed and easily replaced. Maybe yes maybe no. Won't argue with posters that feel we will do better by receiving an early draft pick for him. Maybe yes, maybe no. Won't argue with posters who think he is gone - probably yes, maybe no. But I will take exception with opinions that are coloured because of his stance of not revealing his preferred position until seasons end. Edit - You will also note that Frawley is 3rd in the league for marks. Not too bad when you consider where we are ranked for inside 50's. IMO opinion it also shows that for a player who has taken the 3rd most marks in the league he hasn't had enough impact - means he doesn't do enough with the ball when he marks it.

I am scared that JF will stay and continue to underperform and show poor leadership That treally worries me and maybe other clubs see his attitude as a negative

The boys who played against Port earnt the right to remain in the side with their attitude and effort, bring it again and then some. Cross would if right have been an in for me Not unexpected

I have finally accepted it. For the whole of his career, I have massively overrated Sylvia. Vince is now my favourite player anyway.

There wont be any changes, and considering we almost beat Port in Adelaide im not sure what changes you would want anyway

"Am I a bad Melbourne supporter?" No, just a tragic one. Aren't we all?

that's just convenient rationalisation and typical mfcss

Welcome aboard Cameron!!!!!!! What................................Too soon??????????

Theres a difference between getting dropped and going in for knee surgery. Just saying

Surely dropping Scully does nothing but improve their chances of winning?

This stemmed from a mentality of getting games into talented young high draft picks. Unfortunetely those games did little to develop good playing habits habits.

Been there. You can't wash off that dirty feeling.

I tend to think the other way - Mick is old and delusional the same way that Sheedy and Baras went a bit loopy at the end there after all those years under the pressure. I would think a 36- 38 year old would be able to assimilate with a young player group easier than a 50+ player that has been removed from playing for so long. All about respect and player management for mine.

"Secret Squirrel [censored]" Do you mind if I use that one bb? Love it

and most americans regard owning a gun as a safety measure - LOL I'd bet wada/asada knew this was coming and was why they dropped all mention of aod9604 in their show cause notices

no-one would deny that good, big, tall midfielders are desirable, but they don't necessarily grow on trees but the point is that you don't have to be a tall midfielder to be a good midfielder and as others have pointed out being big and tall is less critical for an outside mid there is still plenty of scope in our game for midfielders of varying stature as long as they have good other desired attributes to eliminate someone as a midfielder because he is not 90kg or 187cm is stupid

Does he have the brain power to know or understand that, or in fact anything?

Glad you trust their judgement Bob but then there are people around who trust the judgement of faith healers too . However, on the subject of the judgement of our medical people in relation to Hogan's return date you must admit they have been well ... all over the shop:- June 18 (6 weeks ago): "Jesse Hogan (back) – 6 weeks" July 1 (4 weeks ago): "Jesse Hogan (back) – 4-6 weeks" July 9 (3½ weeks ago): "Jesse Hogan (back) – 3-4 weeks" July 15 (2½ weeks ago): "Jesse Hogan (back) – 3-4 weeks" Two days ago: "Jesse Hogan (back) – 3-4 weeks" That doesn't give much comfort upon which to place trust on their judgement but, if the trend shown above continues, it will all be moot. From a football perspective I believe that even if they now have it right with their 3 - 4 week prognosis then Hogan has run out of time for a proper 2014 return because our last game of the season is four weeks away. It would not only be pointless for him to make his AFL debut in Round 23 without the benefit of a couple of runs at VFL level, it would also be completely inconsistent with everything Paul Roos has said in the past about bringing young players up too early.

Thanks for all the compliments. I just reckon the Demons have too many midget midfielders on the list. Boomer and Mitchell are sensational - but they are special talents that don't come along very often. Dom Tyson taller - the success story of the Dees year. Fyfe tonight - fantastic - can take high marks and in the forward line. Barlow a big man. That is what I am getting at.

Pretty sure Dave Mission mentioned that himself on dee tv..

I bring nothing? You are having a whinge about nothing which is a pastime of many in this forum. Blease, Tapscott, Riley, JKH, Kent and McKenzie are ALL already in the extended side, who exactly of the remaining players on the list would you have preferred to see the coach name tonight so that you may be 'inspired'? I can pose that question knowing confidently there not is a name can you can offer that is likely to bring more to the table than any of the three INS named. Gawn I agree has shown very little but as well all know the big blokes take forever to do anything and you have to get them out to develop our ruck stocks for 3-4 years from now. 208cm blokes are just too rare that they pretty much get autoselected such is the nature of the game. Terl and MJones have at least put in some decent AFL matches which is more than can be said for the rest of the remaining list - so tell me, instead of pontlessly whinging, on what basis do you criticise the coach's selections tonight? Thanks.

so much pessimism in this thread Am I the only one thats excited about the last 5 games? I couldnt ivee a stuff about the draft or trade period yet, and thats normally all i care about at this time of the season Im ready to see some wins and some great highlights to finish the season

He doesn't need to be a big bodied inside midfielder because he's an outside player, his pace, speed, class are all things we are desperately lacking and he's most likely only going to cost a third round pick, it's a no brainer really.

What a stupid analysis. Your starting to sound like Picket Fence.FMD

Billy will be a good pick up for us. Will hopefully and likely land him with our 3rd round pick. We need his type of player. Someone with good endurance who runs both ways and provides options with a lot of run. Look at Hawthorn with Isaac Smith and Brad Hill. Whenever those guys are tagged the Hawks struggle and sometimes lose. Sam Mitchell said in an interview after the game on the weekend that Isaac Smith was Hawthorns most important player due to his outside run. Nearly every team has battering rams who win ball in the contest, the good teams are separated by the uncontested possession. Geelong at their peak were the kings of uncontested possession because their skills were so good. They would wait/force the mistake from the opposition and then once they had the ball you would not touch it. Stretch would help us as a hard running option in the Smith/Hill mould, hopefully he can develop and become as influential. We need outside run and spread.

Likelihood is absolutely zero.

Billy stretch will be recruited because we lack exactly that type of player, The thing picket and a few others fail to see is you can't just have 44 inside midfielders on your list

I think motlop is good because those around him are, wouldn't look nearly as good in our side and I don't like the idea of recruiting a player for revenge unless it's Jeremy Cameron The best revenge would be a huge rise in 2015 and Geelong falling away

How would you feel about recruiting a bloke like Keiran Jack (178cm) or Dion Prestia (175cm) or any number of gun midfielders under 6ft tall fossil? I suppose they don't fit our needs for tall, robust midfielders. FMD even Jack Viney is only 178cm and we don't have any issues with him. There is no bulletproof recruiting strategy. Not all tall agressive midfielders become guns. Not all midgets are spuds and neither are all slightly built guys. Nathan Fyfe is doing ok, for example. And not every player comes on at the same rate. But that comment is frought with danger around here

Who says he is to be recruited as a midfielder? Do you throw out there a team of 'tall, robust midfielders?' Jimmy Toumpas isn't a classic example of a 'list clogger' - he is a kid trying to find his feet and through no fault of his own - gets compared to another who has been quite special for PA. I really wish a few could get past the fact that Wines doesn't play for us.

He went back to Glenelg, played seniors, and was in the bests. http://www.foxsportspulse.com/round_info.cgi?a=MATCH&fixture=124147241&c=1-3289-0-289294-0&pool=1

What really fascinates me about Picket Fence's maniacal obsession with meat-bag midfielders is that if there is one area on the ground that the Demons are most deficient, it's the classy, good decision makers with good kicks who either have the vision to bring us cleanly out of half-back tangles, or the awareness to offer relieving leads and to run for hand-ball-receives. That and he fact that he keeps banging on despite having the evidence placed in front of him earlier, showing that there are five clubs whose top contested ballwinners are what he would call 'skinny, outside types who don't deserve to go before the third round'. Picket Fence's concept of recruiting and team balance might be seen as appropriate for suburban C-grade teams, and certainly it was the strategy used by Terry Wallace at Richmond, but it is a liability in multiple ways when you get to the top level.

As nice as it would have been, those players weren't actually available to us at those picks. But alternatively, we could have taken Dangerfield at 4 and Taylor at 14... But would you have turned down Morton? The write ups on him were insane. So much unrealised potential...

Oh wow, that's depressing..

He had us taking Harry Taylor at Pick #21 as well...

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/8446-matt-burgans-phantom-draft/ Our own Matt Burgan's phantom draft from 2007, with a brief write-up on Dangerfield. Imagine how we'd be going if we made those selections instead...

Serious question for the draft watchers out there. I'm a little greedy when it comes to midfielders. I actually don't want an inside midfielder. I don't want an outside midfielder either. I want both! The premier midfielders in the comp do both. We don't have one on our list and we desperately need one. So if explosive inside/outside high possession midfielders such as Judd, Dangerfield, Kerr and Ablett were 17 year olds, what would their draft profile read like? Were they the complete article then or did one side of their game catch up to the other? In other words, I'm interested in knowing what their contested to uncontested possession rates might have been like when they were young. I've got a theory that in the case of the four mentioned above (and Kerr might be the exception) they all had speed, skills and athleticism but added or expanded upon their contested/ball winning skills as they grew over time. Any support for this theory? So how does this relate to Stretch? I'm a subscriber to the very simple, 'We need to draft and develop two or three stars of the competition to win a flag' club. Are we going to find a champion midfielder by taking the safer one-paced ball winning mids that are more common or should we be taking more chances on Stretch-like projects that might develop the complete game? I'm going to lose most people here but I don't see Oliver Wines becoming a top 10 player in the comp. I think he'll be very very good but doesn't have the tools to be a champion of the competition. He'll never have the creativity or the kicking skills to do it. I've come over to the Paul Roos approach. I'd keep trading away early first round draft picks on established quality players and roll the dice on downgraded first round picks and in the second, third and fourth rounds on players who have the potential to develop into the complete package. Ablett was obviously father and son but most don't think he was top 10 material and Daniel Kerr was picked at the beginning of the second round. Quality, all-round midfielders who I consider to be elite do exist outside of the top 5 or 6. Let's take the 2007 - 2009 period as an example. In 2007 Dangerfield went at 10 and Callan Ward could be picked up at 19. Beams and Sloane were 29 and 44 respectively in the 2008 draft. Fyfe was pick 20 a year later along with Duncan at 28 who I rate very highly. In contrast many of the top 10 midfielders who were elite juniors but relied on big engines to accumulate or big bodies to win the inside ball have become solid but not sensational midfielders at the top level. I'm talking about Masten (3) and Palmer (7) in 2007, Rich (7) and Ziebell (9) in 2008 and of course in 2009 we had Scully (1), Trengove (2) and Cunnington (6). Arguments could also be mounted to add Martin (3) and Morabito (4) to this list. Interestingly, during this three year sample the really elite mids to emerge from the top 5 or 6 are only really Cotchin, Hill and if I was to be extremely kind, the inconsistent Hartlett. So what to make of all of this? I'd be very comfortable taking a punt on a player rated by many to be somewhere between 10 and 35 particularly when said player has an impressive combination of endurance, pace and skill and happens to love this club. Were Fyfe or Hill any bigger than Stretch at his age? I'm not saying Stretch will turn into a complete player but I'd rather than take a chance on him in the second or third round than taking a Dunstan or a Matt Crouch or a Lewis Taylor. All of those players will be good for their clubs but they won't become champions of the competition. We need a champion.

I've watched the championships, following the boys, and am looking forward to seeing Billy in the red and the blue next year. My honest opinion which is gathered from watching, talking to coaches, and reading forums, it that Billy is a great talent and a top 30 talent in this draft. Unless he has a fantastic bottom half of the year, and I hope he does, he isn't going to go in the first round. That leaves us with Brisbane and St Kilda to bid before our second round. Brisbane will take Dawson as he is a first round talent and teams will bid on him (QLD zone selection). St Kilda - do they need a Billy? I'm not sure. I'd be backing another tall from them or Laverde, Ahern, Lamb or De Goey depending on who drops out of the first round. My pick is that we take him with a third round pick which allows us to trade our second round for an established mid (ala Vince). If I had to make a call if to take him with a second pick, I'd take him in a heartbeat. He has improved out of sight this year. Did not expect this level from him at all. With that level of improvement not being in an AFL club, I'm willing to take the punt.