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What people seem to fail to realise is that Tommy is a fantastic contested possession player and is rarely beaten. He turns it over. Fancy that from a young key position player. MFC will be desperate for him to extent his contract.

Gillon McLachlan ends his silence ~ AFL boss Gillon McLachlan backs top medico Peter Harcourt

The laser beams are a much better idea. If a ball "hit the post" it would be incinerated by the laser beam and explode on the spot. There'd be no necessity for a goal review system then. We could fill the balls with fireworks to make sure everyone could see.

I've said on a number of occasions that Robbo is the 'Molly Meldrum' of football, only without the intelligence.

Above is the post that started your fit. WYL did not say they would be delisted - he said they would not take the club forward. Approximately 8 or 9 of the 45 listed players will go at the end of the season: Clark, Byrnes, Blease, Strauss, Westrupp, Nicholson, Tapscott, Georgiou, Terlich, Barry and Clisby are the players that will make up these 8 or 9. The bolded players are near definite deletions at this stage. In addition to the 11 players listed above: Evans, Gawn, Fitzpatrick, and Spencer are also treading water in their development, McKenzie, M Jones and Bail are limited players that would struggle to get a game with even middling teams, and Cross and Jamar have 1 or 2 years left. In addition to these 20 players; Trengove has a career threatening foot injury, and Harmes, Toumpas, Riley, Michie, Hunt, and King are speculative youngsters (a couple of them are not so young) that we do not yet know will make it at this level. That is 27 players that are not in a position to say they will be around in 3 years time, or that the club are in a position to show faith in. ! Kent, Salem, Hogan and JKH are not yet ready to shoulder a large burden on their talented shoulders and we have a team of 14 AFL ready players who just have to be fit and in form for us to compete with any team. How anyone can think our list is in good shape is beyond me. WYL is right at this stage - and, unfortunately, you have nothing but insults to beat him back with.

Its a fundamental part of what makes the game different. Leave it alone.

Just stop people. Really. Move on.

And none of them have cancer. Must have worked

I'm off the opinion that the MRP sanctioned Petrie as a way to compel him to give evidence. He had already backed away from his initial comments "he almost put me to sleep". If his trial is heard before Lake, he will need to explain why he eye gouged of he wants to get off. Lake, in my opinion should get at least a month. It was an ugly assault that had no place on the football field and to me was 100% worse than any of the bumps we've seen suspended this year.

You summed it up for me there Bob. I can have diametrically opposed views on Tom from one game to another. Hell sometimes within the same passage of play I can go from wild enthusiasm for his defence work to abject despair over his disposal. But let's face it we all knew that when he went down against Riewoldt in round 1 that it was probably going to be game changing. We would have won that match if he didn't get injured. If his kicking was even a 7/10 then you could comfortably assume he would be a fair shot at AA CHB for the next half decade. The MFC will be desperate to get his signature but hopefully Tom can spend less time in the offseason gut running and more spent on honing his disposal

I met one of the Swans academy coaches yesterday who is mates with Roos and who spoke to him a week or so ago. I asked him if, given recent results, if Roos was still happy taking up the MFC coaching reins. He said that Paul is a "coaching fiend" and loves being a coach. We spoke briefly about Frawley and he had no idea if he was going to stay or not but said that free agency favoured the stronger clubs and the weaker clubs were always going to pay over the odds to keep or attract players Re Hogan. As just a football supporter without any great industry knowledge I have more concerns about Hogan than most here particularly regarding his marking and kicking. The Swans academy coach however believes the Club has huge faith in Jesse and getting his signature on the two year extension is a key plank in the rebuild. They have very high hopes for him I know there is nothing new here but I found it interesting to talk from someone close to Roos and thought some others here may find the same

Wishful thinking. Frawley is an UFA - he can go wherever he wants without the need for a trade - Sydney does not have to engage with us. And they wouldn't.

I would like to take my slice of the humble pie and admit I was totally wrong in considering Bomber Thompson a possibility for the job, there is no way in the world we should let him any where near our club.

I've loved every minute of Allison's reports. Been one of the highlights of the season for me - gives us a clear understanding of where these players are at. It's frustrating to hear they are doing poorly, but for the first time in ages we have accurate reports being given to the fans.

GWS will have more grumbles as they have so many high draft picks before considering all the other issues of young players moving up there. These kids were top of their class etc coming in and not getting good game time. The exodus will be constant as the team matures and other clubs should benefit.

I think the AFL might be totally jack of essendon too

I like reading Saty's reports and although it can slightly irk me, I dont mind if he is thought of as a Demonland respresentative. I am happily part of that. Stick with it Saty.

Not in the slightest bit worried about PJ jumping ship. Not one iota.

I still think we should apply for a PP at the end of the season. We've done everything right on and off the field, and we are still struggling. After so many bad seasons in which the draft was compromised, we deserve a PP more than any other team out there. Happy to get a PP on the provision that we on trade it, should that make it easier for the AFL to 'award' us one.

Patrick smith has written he sat down with an essendon official some time ago, who admitted they know who the "essendon mother" is and have talked with her. Robbo tweeted last night: " who do you believe patrick smith of the EFC?" KB tweeted in response "pat smith!" BTW I'm on holidays, got time on my hands!

Where the hell is the blowtorch on the coach and the side??! Mark Neeld copped it left right and center in his first year yet we haven't heard a thing about this side. Still reeling we lost to them in round 1.

Serious question for the draft watchers out there. I'm a little greedy when it comes to midfielders. I actually don't want an inside midfielder. I don't want an outside midfielder either. I want both! The premier midfielders in the comp do both. We don't have one on our list and we desperately need one. So if explosive inside/outside high possession midfielders such as Judd, Dangerfield, Kerr and Ablett were 17 year olds, what would their draft profile read like? Were they the complete article then or did one side of their game catch up to the other? In other words, I'm interested in knowing what their contested to uncontested possession rates might have been like when they were young. I've got a theory that in the case of the four mentioned above (and Kerr might be the exception) they all had speed, skills and athleticism but added or expanded upon their contested/ball winning skills as they grew over time. Any support for this theory? So how does this relate to Stretch? I'm a subscriber to the very simple, 'We need to draft and develop two or three stars of the competition to win a flag' club. Are we going to find a champion midfielder by taking the safer one-paced ball winning mids that are more common or should we be taking more chances on Stretch-like projects that might develop the complete game? I'm going to lose most people here but I don't see Oliver Wines becoming a top 10 player in the comp. I think he'll be very very good but doesn't have the tools to be a champion of the competition. He'll never have the creativity or the kicking skills to do it. I've come over to the Paul Roos approach. I'd keep trading away early first round draft picks on established quality players and roll the dice on downgraded first round picks and in the second, third and fourth rounds on players who have the potential to develop into the complete package. Ablett was obviously father and son but most don't think he was top 10 material and Daniel Kerr was picked at the beginning of the second round. Quality, all-round midfielders who I consider to be elite do exist outside of the top 5 or 6. Let's take the 2007 - 2009 period as an example. In 2007 Dangerfield went at 10 and Callan Ward could be picked up at 19. Beams and Sloane were 29 and 44 respectively in the 2008 draft. Fyfe was pick 20 a year later along with Duncan at 28 who I rate very highly. In contrast many of the top 10 midfielders who were elite juniors but relied on big engines to accumulate or big bodies to win the inside ball have become solid but not sensational midfielders at the top level. I'm talking about Masten (3) and Palmer (7) in 2007, Rich (7) and Ziebell (9) in 2008 and of course in 2009 we had Scully (1), Trengove (2) and Cunnington (6). Arguments could also be mounted to add Martin (3) and Morabito (4) to this list. Interestingly, during this three year sample the really elite mids to emerge from the top 5 or 6 are only really Cotchin, Hill and if I was to be extremely kind, the inconsistent Hartlett. So what to make of all of this? I'd be very comfortable taking a punt on a player rated by many to be somewhere between 10 and 35 particularly when said player has an impressive combination of endurance, pace and skill and happens to love this club. Were Fyfe or Hill any bigger than Stretch at his age? I'm not saying Stretch will turn into a complete player but I'd rather than take a chance on him in the second or third round than taking a Dunstan or a Matt Crouch or a Lewis Taylor. All of those players will be good for their clubs but they won't become champions of the competition. We need a champion.

Exactly what I was going to say. I'm all for a progressive, evolving game (to a degree) but I'd be sorry to see any changes the way scoring works.

GWS is a disaster for us and the AFL. It's a failed experiment like the rugby league players brought into the AFL. Nobody supports them except the fools at AFL house. The players all want to leave and be in good clubs that win games. Many were high draft picks and have been shafted by this cruel twist of fate that they were born in the wrong year when Greatest Waste of Space was created and stole all our picks.

I would suspect almost all of them would rather be playing for a real club.

yes, I believe ASADA, and Judge Downes who signed off on their case

Lake 4 weeks! Got of lightly I feel!

They won't get one, we won't get one. Was discussing it with a mate last night, guaranteed that only the northern markets teams will get one in future years!

They ought not get a PP they should however seek some IQ

Hey WJ I take your point, but I still thought it was a very good piece. It's strength is in its timeliness. There's a risk that the various sideshows Little and his lawyers are stirring up will distract people from the main game. I reckon she's reduced that risk (still hate her when she's snapping at us, of course; she was bloody one-sided on the tanking thing - for me, that was like the Abbot budget - I could almost handle it if it was evenly distributed, but it wasnt - both budget and tanking debate further entrenched inequality) I just can't help listening to her, even when she's on 3AW with a panel of morons. Cheers

For the record - mine IS bigger than yours.

WOWWEEE BARREL BOY'S ARM HAS JUST BEEN SLICED OFF AFTER BIG BOY MCEVOY BUMPED HIM WHILE TRYING TO SPOIL THE BALL!! BOY OH BOY!! WOWEEEEE!! GET A LOOK AT THAT RICHO!

I don't like reviews in any sport. My attitude is that all rules should be app-liable and accessible at grass roots level. How are you going to groom officials/players for bigger roles if they need to make/accept calls in "development" leagues with the view that they will not need to worry about it once they step up in class. I think it makes a better spectacle to discuss if an umpire made an error in real time than driving a computer. I think a lot of people would have the attitude of we were lucky/robbed, but it will even out next time, as opposed to "how did they get it wrong, even with a video reply/review. That being said, I don't think umpires market themselves very well. A lot of focus gets put on the 2 or 3 errors umpires may make a game. I am pretty sure most of the Melbourne players are paid more, have less pressure, more support and make at least 10 times (I am being generous, it would be way more)more errors by regularly getting caught out of position, missing passes, dropping balls, or choose wrong options.

I'll bite. The article she wrote expresses most of the sports world's feelings but there's nothing new or original in what she says in it and people like Michaelangelo Rucci and Patrick Smith (and numerous internet pundits) have beaten her to the punch. Her editor has finally been honest enough to succumb to the notion that wnen she writes opinion articles, it should correctly be labelled "comment". I made the point in a post above that because she might happen to be right on this issue it doesn't validate the large body of critical assessment of her writing that is covered by this thread. Moreover, she attacks Essendon for doing what every organisation has a right to do (and in the case of Hird - every person) - to defend itself in a court of law if it feels aggrieved. I believe that Essendon has been advised it has a valid case which requires the support of properly presented evidence. I happen to disagree that the case has merit but Wilson doesn't address this at all. I don't accept that her article is either sensational, original or in a class or her own in the context of "fantastic" articles because others beat her to the punch in writing probably the easiest story that can confront a journalist.

Now you are on to something. And if you still didn't like the goal umpire's decision, you could just give him a little nudge in to the 'post', and he'll never make a wrong call again!

No, you get lambasted because you ignore everyone else and just go on your merry way. You moan about people not listening to you and that it's just 'your opinion', yet your flippant attitude shows that you don't take anyone else's views seriously. Heck, on the previous page you said you are waiting for someone to name 20 worth delisting, which I had done a few pages prior to that. You don't listen and you don't try to, and when someone presents you with some facts you totally ignore and give an asinine response. The hole you are in is one you've dug for yourself - we haven't needed to help you. The fact is our list is poor in many areas and needs to be fixed. FACT.

Terrible game for us but at least i am angry at losing again... last year i lost all feeling towards a 10 goal loss, now i feel an anger and, IMO, you can see the players hurting as well. We have 2 more 'winnable' games in Brisbane & GWS but for the rest i would like to see us compete like we have done against the power and swans. If we win 5 or 6 games for the years its a great improvement on where we have come from. If you said to me at the start of the season that we would be breaking even in disposals (contested & uncontested) per game (-6.6), an effective disposal % of 73.4 and improving our I50 count by +10 over last year (still -11 vs opponent) i would have probably put a $50 on it to say you were wrong. But yet here we are at R16 with those numbers, a clear game plan which will act as the base plan on which to build on and a glimmer of hope with the team progressively improving. It may not be the Port Adelaide turn around we all wanted but its a turn around. Finally, I feel good when I go to the footy knowing that my team is gonna have a dip, this weekend when i head to the G to watch us against the cats i will go with the belief that if we can keep the score low we have a sniff. Its a good feeling to have back again.

It bemuses me, the petty infighting on a footy internet site We lose......Sack everyone We win.......What great champions the players are and all will be 200 game players Watched a few games on the weekend.....We are not the only team that makes mistakes.......Some very experienced players for the higher teams made some glaring errors....Ie...stuffed up kicks,handballs, fumbled Saty has his opinions, others don't agree..........but posters get into name calling and insults which really is a bit silly because what does it really matter. It's a mine is bigger than yours thing. We all have opinion.....we all have our favourite players and the ones we think are not up to it........But to belittle another poster because you don't like what he said is childish and petulant. Sorry.......Rant over

While there have been numerous discussions about the worth and quality of the allignment recently, in light of the above couple of posts, I think there are other ways the "reserves" could be improved, not only through how Melbourne competes. I understand the VFL is a competition in it's own right, but now it is practically acting as a reserves competition. Given that the AFL fixture is released very early (late October), surely the VFL fixture could be organised so that the majority of teams/matches don't clash. For example, if the VFL alligned teams played on the same day, or the day after their AFL teams, it would mean players don'thave to sit games out as an emergency. Surely that would improve the VFL by having 10 of its best players playing every week, instead of sitting out just in case.

Jaded, I don't expect one, but if the requirement now is that we 'apply' for one, rather than get given one, I'd be dissapointed if we didn't apply. Wewill finish the year between 4 and 6 wins, depending on the outcomes of our games against Brisbane and GWS. It is unlikely we'll win more than that. That means we will have on 38-40 matches in 8 years, less than 5 matches per year. Apparently the new formula is based on: premiership points that a club has received over a period of years (with greater weight to recent seasons), a club's percentage (points for/points against x 100) over a period of years (another indication of on-field competitiveness, with greater weight to recent seasons), any finals appearances that a club has made in recent seasons, any premierships that a club has won in recent seasons, and a club's injury rates in each relevant season. To me, we clearly qualify in all of those criteria over the past 8 seasons. Average of 19-20 premiership points per season over 8 years, and average of 13-16 in the past 3 years (recent results). Our percentages in those 8 seasons have been (rounded) 75%, 54%, 67%, 85%, 95%, 75%, 63% and 78%. 5 of 8 were below 75.0% over eight years,while the most recent three are quite poor, particularly the 54% No finals since 2006 (8 years, or a whole football generation). No premierships in recent seasons. No particular injury rates that have caused us to have a bad year (the West Coast rule). To put into context how bad we are: In their last 5 seasons, Fitzroy won 27 games at an average of 5.4 per season, better than our last five seasons. In Fitzroy's last 8 seasons they won 50 games. 25% more than we have! If we don't qualify, no one ever should. I would argue that we have done the right things of field, put a good team into place in the admin side of the club, and that we have put together a fantastic football operations department including coaches but that we only have a limited window to get it right. If we aren't seeing results in another 12-24 months with the current coaches, and within the current period of club stability, then it will be all for nothing. Also, while we have improved on field, we have recruited players like Cross and Vince who have only a limited window, thus the normally slow rebuilding process will not be fast enough to see significant improvement, let alone maintain the status quo, as we need not only turn over the players who aren't up to it, but find/develop replacements for those older guys who are clearly in our top 10. We need to turn over 50% of our list, but you can only realistically improve 10-15% of your list each year, the other 10-15% of changes are either effectively swapping like for like or are drafting for development; it may improve your list but not for 2-3 years. A priority pick now, that we can trade, will give us the opportunity to improve our list by 20% this season and allow us to be competitive immediately. That's how I'd be framing it.

Damning and factual need not be mutually exclusive I suggest they are damning because they are factual

I thought Molly was ok..lol But Robbo....seriously....do yourself a favour .........

Yes, it was truly disgusting that Melbourne followed the same formula adopted by half the clubs in the AFL and endorsed by the AFL CEO of sending players for early surgery when the season was shot, experimenting with players in different positions, bringing in youth even when they might not be quite ready and officials joking around but when a club put thousands of syringes of an unknown substance into its players' veins it's only damaging the game. No shock and awe there at all. Also off topic, I found this gem in the Footy Almanac article A legacy into which Paul Roos is tapping mentioned on a different thread:- Not sure if Dinny made any comments about Zulus when he added the adder into the committee meeting but he was obviously starting a tradition of levity at the MFC that stretched for half a century until a po faced journalist and a rogue puritanical regime of AFL hypocrites put an end to the fun. No such restrictions at the EFC ATM where they can still wave around syringes filled with Mexican jumping juice and do it with impunity. I'm with Dinny. Bring back the snake!

So I've scanned the thread, and from what I can see not one person labelled any player a spud. Just for the record.

Essendon fc goes to court Essendon fc fails in court Essendon fc receives punishment Players are issued with infraction notices Players sue Essendon football club for damages Hird tries to sue Essendon fc for some reason Tasmania rejoices as it enters the AFL as the Tasmanian Bombers with Mark Neeld at the helm, Mathew Primus as senior assistant and Shannon Byrnes captain

Ha! Watching picket fence have a full on meltdown in front of everybody is pretty funny. It's like he considers being angry to be an argument. Carry on. *grabs more popcorn*

Allison just says it as it is....no sugar coatings.. Nor should there be

Best get Brett Allison to do the reports then.

i even dislike the way the TV doesn't show Goals and Behinds in scoring. It gives me the [censored]!