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According to Demonland, Taggert is a serious talent unfairly dismissed, and Nicholson both the luckiest and worst player on an AFL list. The hyperbole and unfoundedly speculative comment on here is just WOW!

Oh, do me! Do me!!

3 VFL players got delisted today. That's all they were.

Disappointed to see Taggert delisted. Thought the kid had some potential, still i've always been a crap judge of talent.

If you can't run ......

Why all the love for Taggert? He had a full year this year and still couldn't break in. List clogger.

i hope Magner gets picked up by someone else and gets another chance.

Norf weren't stupid enough to offer him a three year contract.

Annually we all become drafting experts based on 2 minutes of video It's a bit like the Olympics where every 4 years we become expert judges in things like diving. No splash ..gotta be a 9.4 It's fun Sue, you should play as well

I AGREE WITH EVERYONE, WE SHOULD GO FOR FREEMAN:

It's not wasted, it's the nature of the beast. Why are people presuming that every draftee we take should turn out to be an AFL player? A third of all draftees taken never play a single game. Another third (higher actually, around 43%) play less than 50 games. The total there is 3/4, 75%. At the other end, only 13% get to play more than 100 games, and only 3% more than 200. So, across the history of the draft and across all clubs, around 1 player in every 6 plays more than 100 games - and most of those would be in/close to the first round. That a pick 36 didn't make the grade at AFL level is more to be expected than to be unexpected.

Great draft that one was for us Josh Tynan, Rpry Taggert and James Sellar :LOL

Wrong approach.. You should be looking at our bottom tier best 22 players stepping it up.. It's these players that are going to bring us into top 8 contention.. Eg.. Evans - Avg 20 Disposals and 1 goal a game. Tapscott - Shuts down opposition forward each week. Kent - Kicks 35 goals as forward pocket.. Michie - Avg 28 Disposals and 1 goal a game Jamar - back to AA form Howe - 40-50 goals McDonald - AA CHB Trengove - Avg 30 disposals If things like the above happen, the 8 players you mentioned should lift their game regardless.. You're only as good as your bottom players.. need the whole team to step up..

He may as well have plucked them out of a bucket of sand. How in the hell did Prendergast read where the game was going when he took on a side with a deficient midfield in 2008 and then fitted away a bevy of draft picks on a number of players that either lacked the talent or weren't midfielders. If my assessment is right he only secured three bona fide mid fielders out of the lot. Scully ( no brainer), Gysberts (enough said) and Bail (punt at best). He missed the direction of the game, he overlooked the needs of the team and lacked the key ingredient for recruiting...the ability to identify talent. IMO, Cook, Gysberts, Tapscott, Blease and Strauss are blow outs and while you can trump up excuses. It's those picks that have really hurt. In their respective years Watts, Scully and Trengove were favourites at the top of the pack Together with Cameron he has severely impinged MFCs playing talent. There is an argument about lack of development at MFC and is got some validity. But it's hard to test the case when we don't have the talent coming through the door

Jetta played 3 years under Bailey before his two years under Neeld. As to why I don't love him: he has no career-defining tricks. I know he has guts and lays a mean tackle, but doesn't get enough of the ball (has had less than 10 possessions in 13 of his 41 games), has little leg speed, isn't particularly dangerous with the ball, and is small. I feel for the guy because he has heart in spades and I've been waiting for 5 seasons for him to come on and prove me wrong, but...

Roos has spoken. Good. We cannot be mediocre anymore. Some make it some don't. That's life.

The PSD is over-rated these days with delisted FA and the ability to nominate a contract price in the ND. Unless we can convince an uncontracted listed required player that he wants to come to MFC that pick is useless - pick 57 way more useful. There's very few players with that status now - look at our candidates for example - Jetta and Nicholson.

Poor Nat Stark. They need to scrap that effing Rookie List. My contracts thread has Jetta and Nicho still unsigned. All I can go on are publicly released info and the odd well placed contact - I still have not seen anything about a new contract for either. With Cross to come on we have 3 spots for the draft, we don't have to use all 3 with Clisby upgraded, only 2. I will update the other thread when I can be bothered.

he has to be bloody miracle he is on an AFL list

Surprised about Taggert

Personally, I think Colin's lack of defensive running will be exposed on the larger ground.

I think the thing people need to remember about Junior being axed and the angst that ensued is that we wouldn't have Tom McDonald if he'd stayed. Yes, it was handled very badly and led to a great deal of bad blood between the senior players and the management, but he was 33, he looked to be breaking down and we needed to clear space on the list for some young players. His spot was taken by our last live draft pick in Tom McDonald, who could be on his way to being an AA CHB. I still think it was the right call to make. It could have been done a lot better simply through better communication from all parties, but it was still the best call for the team.

Nope Prendergast was a fool.

Pick 11 and Pick 12 in consecutive years are now no longer even in the AFL system. We the financial members and supporters of this club have been totally screwed by a lot of incompetence from people who have since been thrown out. What the Hell was the strategy? Thank God it is in the past, but it does make me angry for the Wasted years we have all been subjected too. The MFC deserves no respect on any level until we start winning...To hear CS on SEN a few weeks back talk about draft recruiting was an insult.

Was in their best 22 the last 5 rounds of the year. In his last game he had 27 disposals, 8 marks, 7 tackles and kicked a goal. If there's anything this squad needs right now, it's a workhorse midfielder like Cross.

Will get picked up by a top 4 club and become a champion. Too good a talent to waste. All the very best Cale, er, I mean Lucas, um sorry, Jordan. Oh dear...... I'll just get my coat on the way out.

Nice try BH, but my views on the payers and how they will go in 2014 have nothing to do with the shocking calls you made with respect to their performance in 2013. Dawes to kick 40-50 goals in 2013 - kicks 12, averages 1.0 goals/game Pedersen to be even better than Dawes - averages 0.5 goals/game Pedersen to play 22 games in 2013 - plays 10 games "Love the Bloke" - "Neeld's a disaster" The wins will come in 2013 - Wins: 2 Losses: 20 Hmmmm. I'm sensing a pattern here.... On Neeld: In the lead-up to round 1: ***Hmmmm, the bandwagon seems to have changed direction. I may have backed the wrong horse here. I know, I'll just be really nasty and haughty*** On Pedersen: ***Hmmmm, the tide of majority opinion seems to have gone out on this bloke. I know, I'll just be cruel and imperious*** On Schwab: Ben-Hur circa 2007~June 2013: ***Passionate defense of Cameron Schwab*** ***Hmmmm, I seem to have been the last to read the writing on the wall here. Even I can't continue to defend this guy. I know, I'll just continue to be my usual arrogant self and kick him now he's down*** Loudly trumpet the views of the majority and then loudly and nastily mock those views when majority opinion changes. It's typical schoolyard bully stuff. It could be forgiven in someone who doesn't take himself so seriously.

Not that I expect Daniel Cross would ever read this forum, but if he did, I wonder what would go through his mind if he clicked on a thread welcoming him, only to find a bunch of over 40s (apologies to Hazy) trying to outdo each other over a massive pissing contest. Comical.

If I have this right, we are receiving $1.45M in AFL funding. The $1M is no strings attached, the $450K is dependant upon us raising the same $450K amount ourselves. It has been widely debated whether or not we deserve this handout, despite our poor (understated) performances over an extended period. The Brisbane Lions have just anounced they are receiving $1.8M in AFL funding as a bonus for resolving boardrom issues without needing an EGM. Haven't heard a word of criticism on this funding. WTF! Sure, they obviously have some issues, but their onfield performances have been sound. They won the NAB Cup. How can they receive more AFL funding than we have because they were able to resolve some tiff between suits???? 2013 they only paid the minimum 95% of the salary cap (like us), but openly admit they will now be able to pay the full cap next year due to this handout. Will we be able to do that? Under real equalisation who would 'deserve' the money more? Why the hell has no other team raised any issues with this payment, when they constantly dispute anything that we receive? I don't get it.

Why is Crouch's draft profile on the MFC website?

Jump on the 'pick 9' thread and you'll see some links on the earlier pages.

I never played a game of AFL. But still kicked the wife but was dreamin I was kicking a dog. I migrated from the UK in 1970 grew up playing soccer and rugby union. I played Rugby Union till around 30 including representative games for Victoria. I always enjoyed watching AFL but never realy had a team until I started going out with el presidente. Her family going back through a number of generations have been rabid demons fans and if I wanted in I had to jump on. My father in law has been paid up member for over 60 years without a break and his brother made his final journey recently to the sound of a Grand Old Flag. The whole extended mob bleed red and blue. I probably have a skewed view never having played the game because I know you cant realy understand a game you have never played.

This post needs even more love

I'm hoping that Vince (among others) will be one of the catalysts to drag Melbourne up from being a 'poor side'. Clearly Sylvia couldn't, or didn't want to, hence why he went somewhere else.

Why would it be better to promote Clisby? It would push our pick down the order to the Rookie draft.

Im quite frankly glad Sylvia has gone. His parting words indicate to me he was never capable of realising his ability at Melbourne. Its as though he doesnt respect Melbourne and never has, but instantly respects Freo. careful what you wish for....lol Bernie...still a lad, actually has a much greater work ethos. Cross has a fantastic attitude. Dont know enough about Michie but its quite likely he'll grab the opportunity to play with gusto. if theres a singularity about the trading its to get decent footballers who work hard, all day. What a change it will be.

As a player, I think Sylvia will be a loss. I think he'll do really well at Freo. As a player type, I think Vince will perhaps offer more to us than Sylvia. That said, I would've liked to have retained Sylvia and got Vince, Cross, Tyson, pick 9 and Michie. Quite simply, our midfield is coming from a very long way behind the pack. And we need quality mids/half backs/half forwards.

You need to divorce the decision to trade from the result. Game theory states that the value of a choice should be determined by the likelihood of success, not from the actual outcome.

I'm referring to 2006. And of course what I'd give for a final right now! Just saying the Daniher years culminated in 1 finals win and left Dean Bailey in 2008 with a senior playing group of McDonald Bruce, Green, Moloney and Davey. Throw in a chunk of debt and poor facilities. Then people describe the recruiting of one particular player or the retirement of McDonald as the problem. Bad decisions sure, but not a drop on the surface of a bigger mess.

Looking back, it could have easily been Fitz being traded instead of/as well as Gysberts, as neither were in Neeld's good books. Fitzy's VFL form was good enough to get a decent run for us in AFL but he was obviously out of favour under Neeld. Craig takes over and Fitzy takes leaps and bounds. Neeld quite clearly got a lot of [censored] wrong and Gysberts may or may not be one of them. He simply wasn't big enough for Norf, and probably never tried to root the skippers mrs, so he got cut. He's light yes, but he may be a slow developer. A very slow developer....... I wouldn't be against having him train with us with a view to be rookied, but he'd need to dig deep. Very [censored] deep.

They wrote a song about this bloke. It goes like this: Uh Weller Weller Weller a huh Tell me more, tell me more

As much as I enjoy self flagellation it's a bit long for me. From glancing the top of the post though it appears there are 3 main areas of conjecture, namely Dawes, Pedersen and Neeld. I'm solid on Dawes. Others can please themselves. I was wrong on Pedersen. Heart, grape, seed Neeld talked tough and cut the list like I wanted, but he had severe man management issues. It's a pity I didn't take heed of all those warning me at the time. Fruitcake.

You clearly don't understand the concept that the quality of those possessions is important. Did you see how Vic Country went with Crouch getting all those touches? How about his TAC Cup team? He's about a 4/10 for skill. There's a reason phantom drafts have him going about 15-20.

I don't see how any lucid thinker can argue Sylvia is better than Vince. Vince is clearly a more natural and better mid, whereas Sylvia is a more damaging high half-forward with the occasional run on the ball. Vince has won a B&F in a side that finished 5th and Sylvia's best finish is 5th in a side that is regarded as having one of the worst midfields in the history of the game and finished 17th. Over their careers Vince has averaged 21 disposals and Vince 17. Sylvia has kicked more goals due to positioning. Vince is a better decision maker and a better kick. Vince isn't a high accumulator and nor is Sylvia. In what world do we "slightly lose" ?

10% development, 90% drafting.

I'm sorry bit I can't agree with anyone that saw 'something' in this bloke. When he played that game against Geelong, none of their mids took even the faintest bit of notice of him, and so he accumulated possessions by pretty much being free at stoppages. They were simply useless possessions. Greenwood had 38 in one game this year but can't break into Norths engine room.. Why? Magner got over 50 in the VFL this year and didn't play the week after. Why? Cale Morton was averaging high numbers in his first few years when many here were frothing at the thought of our very own Adam Goodes. Numbers. Nothing but numbers. Why do people place so much emphasise on this stat on its own. This is the AFL. The elite. You're not suddenly a good player if you manage high numbers. Just like it doesn't make you a good player if you can only tackle well. Or only kick well. Raise the bar. Gysberts was an out of the blue pick and one of the laziest players I have laid my eyes upon. He did nothing in the champs to prove his worth as a top 20 draft pick and BP will go down as one of the worst AFL recruiters the game has seen. I'm sorry to be harsh, but it's infuriating. I've never seen anything to excite me when watching him play and that was the same with Morton.

I thought this was a Dan Cross thread but realised i must have accidentally clicked on the "insult other D'landers" thread. That happens to me quite often actually.

MCG In September week 2 of the finals would be good!

I know they're highlights packages but I found the Freeman video a bit underwhelming. Good speed but just seems to run (granted quite fast) sometimes into then out of trouble and jam it on the boot. Did not show him winning the ball well or showing good decision making or really even looking that balanced as a running mid. I found the Lennon video the most satisfying of the players that could be around the mark of our pick. Good size, decent speed, well weighted kicks, showed clean hands and decision making. Hey but I wasn't impressed with Hogan in the champs so what would I know