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There is a showdown looming at Glenferrie Oval this year. Franklin and Clarkson are not talking to each other over an issue to do with Buddies partying. A source has told me the words "it's either him or me" were uttered in a conciliation/ crisis meeting . The club is divided over it. Not a happy team at Hawthorn. Personally I'm pretty happy with it.

I might be by my lonesome, but I disagree with the coaches and their whining. I'm happy to have less rotations, more fatigue and the game opening up. Six or 7 years ago 40 rotations was the norm. I'll also get to see the better players on the ground for longer. It works for me.

In breaking news I understand that Hawthorn have enlisted retired Green's politician Bob Brown 'to save the Franklin'!

This is just not true... 15 of 19 possessions were effective. J Mac gets pretty harshly judged here on Demonland. He has the hardness that well all claim to want in our players yet he is constantly being unfairly labeled by us.

Mystified. 80 rotations just seems incredibly low for the modern game. It's time for Vlad to go now. His expiry date is well and truly up.

And some were saying it would be unfair if hogan played for us this year. The AFL are in the business of unfair. This comes as no surprise to me and I think we and some other clubs need to be thought of a bit more. What if the doggies who won't have much to watch this year have their own little warchest to attempt to take buddy or another big name in the attempt to win games but also raise memberships and interest? Sorry lads outbid by the love child giants with the approval of the head office. This is becoming one of the most unfair leagues and it has to stop.

Now that Hogan has had one good gane and one not so good game lets hope everyone gets off this 'hype' and lets the boy develop.

I'm also flat about this season. I bought into the Bailey years and the recruiting that went with that. The early picks we had around 07-09 should now be at 70+ games and making a real impact. And what's happened? Most of them are gone: Petterd, Bate, Martyn, Scully, Gysbert, Jurrah even McLean. These were the guys we were supposed to be patient for for 70-100 games and then we'd take off. Now we've got to wait for the youngest batch of youngsters to mature and hope the same thing happens and it is difficult to have faith in that story. Whether or not they were duds is not the point, the point is they were selected, invested in and ultimately haven't delivered so we go back to the drawing board yet again. Look at it another way, we will run out in 2013 without our 2011 Captain (Green), 2011 B&F Moloney, 2011 2011 runner up Rivers, 2011 Leading Goalkicker (Jurrah) plus about 10 others. Expecting youngsters like Viney, Tompas etc to carry the can is simply unrealistic. And the expereinced recruits we got were all available for a reason........ A couple of years back I thought 13/14 was our "window" - our kids had matured and the Suns and GWS would still be too young. I suspect they'll now leave us in their dust. Hope I'm wrong and have to eat my words!!

"All pigs are equal. Some pigs are more equal than others...!"

Yes...they are bringing over the 5AA boys by request to broadcast the game. Should make interesting listening as they won't know anyone from either team except for the SA draftees.

I am afraid I struggle to understand why the majority of Demonlanders have concluded that Royal is no good. He doesn't come over particularly well in media interviews - but that doesn't mean he can't coach. Our midfield struggled last year - but so did our forwards - and so did our backs. Of the 3 coaches - Royal probably hd the weakest cattle relative to the rest of the competition. Royal is a career coach .He was considered critical the emergence of the Bulldogs under Wallace - and was considered unlucky ( perhaps because of his lucklustre media work) not to pick up senior job. He coached the Saints midfield into two Grand Finals. With his track record as a senior assistant coach, he may be Neeld's most valuable off-sider. No premiership ..... but a clear association with clubs.that got the absolute maximum out of their midfield groups. How many would he have won if he hadn't coached against Swan, Pendlebury and Thomas or Ablett Bartel Ling and Selwood.THe list goes on.......... Now I 'm not saying that he is critical to our coaching structure - but equally reading through this thread I haven't seen any evidence to support the proposition that he is not up to it . As with rpfc, "I would love to see someone come up with an anti-Royal argument that doesn't boil down to "I like shiny new objects!""

I just can't get over the condescending attitude he displays. I can't find the quote right now, but he said something about "is there something in their Wheaties today?" regarding the coaches negative reaction to the rule. That was it. Nothing about them being professional and knowledgeable people who might just know enough about the game to have a valid opinion (as opposed to a hack who had a short career and then went in to admin). Just dismiss them as being cranky children and move on. The guy is a joke and a disgrace to the game. The sooner we are rid of him the better.

This is largely what kept my head above water in the abortion that was the 2012 season, and several seasons prior. You have to be there through the hard times in order to truly enjoy the good times. I think most of us can lay claim to having done the hard yards.

I believe in Lance... Bass.

Just a reminder..Why was the MFC denied a 3rd Party deal to keep $cully? We were never given any reason for this. But of course the deal had already been $igned off. Us v Them Demons. The only way this club will survive.

Franklin....Gawn! Freo Mining $$$ will set up the Franklin mint very nicely. Vlad our bloated one got very heated on the the wireless this morning. Cracks are appearing in his Empire at AFL HQ. Could it be that he views only flags won outside of Victoria as profitable? Won't be long, his reign of tyranny is approaching the end

Sellar played on Jackson Trengove who is a fairly good player, but Trengove was really poor on Sunday. Sellar gave him an absolute hiding. Sellar is not the best tall on our list but he is miles ahead of others: Gillies - I remain unconvinced. Fitzpatrick - I saw some good signs recently, but he was ordinary against PA. However, I am unsure of how much game time he actually got. Pedersen - I just can't see the upside of this bloke. The most impressive thing about Sellar's game was his one-grab marking and also his second efforts when the ball was on the ground. If Jamar and Spencer play it is difficult to get Sellar into the 22.

Perhaps Neeld used this as an opportunity for other players to step up and show some leadership. Great chance to learn more about players, which is what the NAB cup is all about.

Can sympathise with the OP. 2012 was the worse season I have experienced in my 30+ years. It was a season where there was no hope, it was a season that the players were so drained of confidence that it was ugly to watch. It was the first season where I stopped enjoying watching the MFC, mainly because the players weren't enjoying it. Ben Hur mentioned that we should be excited with the inclusions of Viney, Toumpas, Hogan as well as Barry (why he named Barry is beyond me). True, they should be enough to get us off the canvas, but I felt that way when we we had just recruited $cully, Trengove, Gysberts and Tapscott. That draft was meant to be the one that produced a permiership midfield core, and what do we have, 2 left on the list, 1 of which is borderline best 22 (I still have a lot of hope for Tappy). The MFC is a massive part of my life, but it's not the be all and end all. In the past few years I've had personal tragedies occur, so you look to something that makes you happy to get you through some dark days. In the past the MFC has been that for me, regardless of the result. However, in 2011 and 2012 when I needed it most, it wasn't there. Building excitement then within weeks falling back to earth takes its toll on us all in different ways. Currently, where I am in life, I won't let the MFC do it to me this season. Don't get me wrong, the passion remains, the support will never die, but the excitement of a new season just isn't there for me this year. I will watch the 22 games on TV (hope to get to a couple in the flesh), but I refuse to let the results get to me like they have in previous years. I read a great quote on Twitter, can't remember who the USA athlete was that said it, but it was along the lines of "if you aren't there when I'm at the bottom, I don't want you celebrating when I'm on the top". I have mates that are MFC "barrackers" that this applies to, but if anyone EVER accused me of being the same (given my "meh" attitude at the moment), I would like that person to PM me so we don't have to bore everyone on an open forum.

Maybe Liam would have suffered the same fate at any club, given the difference in culture between a Melbourne-based football club and Yuendemu. Maybe he would have had great problems if he'd just stayed in Yuendemu and never seen the light of day in the AFL. Maybe Liam would have ended up having drinking problems no matter where he found himself or what happened to him. Maybe someone's keeping a vendetta going against the club and are just promoting division. But maybe, just maybe, the trip to China was boozily excessive and a very poor advertisement and occasion for the club. Maybe it's a cultural abherration we've hopefully left behind. Maybe it's a symbol of the poor pre-Neeld, unprofessional culture. We should be careful not to just jump on the messenger, or Liam, in our desire to protect the club, and at least consider what role, however large or small, we had in the outcome, despite all the good things we did.

Been on one of my self imposed breaks, some observations myself Joel Mac - one poor kick and everybody assumes he can't kick, as somebody else says 73.7 efficiency Jetta - been saying for four years just needs an injury free run, footy smarts are in the family genes Fitzpatrick - was playing a role, notice how Sellar was most of the time one on one, that was because Fitzy was taking his other defender away, you don't have to touch the ball to have an impact but also his smother to create the runaway goal for Sellar was outstanding Syliva - is getting game time under his belt, I am sure the Footy Dept don't want him injured again, running at about 80% probably under instructions Spencer - competed in the ruck, that is all that is needed, stuck to the task and a couple of good tapdowns that led to goals Magner - was not fourth of fifth midfielder and showed what he can do The whole defence which was a complete change from the supposedly best 22 looks composed most of the time in the conditions I was pleased with what we saw

Actually 73.7 disposal efficiency. On the other hand, the ones that went astray, REALLY went astray, which perhaps makes it all look worse than it is.

Funny how we have had (have) a lot of indiginous players over the years and i can't recall any of them getting into trouble over alcohol now we have liam ex collingwood ex melbourne ex yuendumu ex alice springs ex port melbourne and his drinking problem is melbourne's fault that reporter must have done a lot of investigation add one more journalist reporter hack scibbler to the club's banned list

The only thing that can replace a meal is another meal.

Apparently they are now investigating us for starting WW 2 and assassinating Presidents Kennedy and Lincoln, as well as causing the plague of London and the destruction of Pompeii. PS. Caroline Wilson has a source and knows we are guilty.

Going nude then lfR?

I'll be there. Can't wait. I'll be on the non-GS wing and am always be up for a frothy or two!

exactly why i have suggested all gate receipts get taken by the afl and divvied up at the end of the year. problem solved

Was fairly pleased with how we played. My run down on each player: M.Jones - Played the whole game in the middle and thought he was very good. Excellent hands in close, nice pace and spreads well from the contest. Magner - Got plenty of first possession in the stoppages but let himself down with poor disposal by hand and foot. Gillies - Seemed to be a bit of a general down back, used the ball well under pressure. Taggert - Very good first quarter. A couple of nicely weighted kicks to advantage and just looked comfortable out there. Went missing after quarter time though. Tynan - Looked a bit shaky with ball in hand. Had one nice bit of play where he came off a wing at a centre bounce, scooped up the ball, shrugged an oncoming tackle, and delivered a pin point 40 metre pass to a leading forward. Davey - Is a pleasure when he has the ball in his hands, just needs to get more of it. J Macdonald - Virtually turned the ball over every time he got it, will be concerning if he got many games this year. Strauss - One of our best. Not many long raking kicks from him but was good defensively and didn't waste a possession. Looked very self assured. Dunn might be a bit nervous. Sylvia - An ordinary game from Col. Gave away a couple of silly 'over the shoulder' free kicks and just lacked intensity around the contest. Could be a surprise round 1 omission. Sellar - Nice for him to get a bag of 5. Held his marks against some weak opposition, should be in front of Pederson for the Fwd/Ruck position. Couch - Didn't notice him much. Kent - Surprised at how agile he looked out there. Burned his opponent off a few times and delivered some nice passes. With his physique and booming left foot he could be something special. Jetta - BOG. Has flair and toughness. Tapscott - A couple of nice contested marks and some crunching tackles. If he can stay fit he will easily be part of out best 22. Davis - Was just ok, kicking not up to scratch. Terlich - Was very reliable in defence. Uses it well and doesn't shirk a contest. Evans - Just an average game. Ball drop when kicking looks kind of awkward. Nicholson - Played last quarter only. Needs to think more when he has the ball instead of just running around like a headless chook. Barry - Struggled to find the ball and made poor decisions when he got it. Not ready. Hogan - Barely sighted. Spencer - Competed well and gave the midfielders first use with some quality hitouts. Fitzpatrick - Nope. Pedersen - Only remember him falling over in a ruck contest.

I just watched the replay and my observations are. - Ollie Wines can't kick, much prefer Toumpass and Viney at this stage. - Spencer beat Redden. This was important as we won a lot of the stoppages. At the start of the third quarter Lobbe went into the ruck, beat Spencer convincingly, they won the stoppages and kicked three goals. Pederson was hopeless in the ruck. - I thought Gillies was good down back and unlike Davis you can trust him when he gets the ball, he is a touch slow so they will have to give him the right match up. - Jetta was great. He is a tackling machine and played with a lot of freedom to create run from defence. I haven't seen him do that at the much higher AFL standard but hopefully as he gets confidence he will. - Kent was great. His play on the boundary line to dodge then centre the ball to Hogan who should have got a free before Sellar snapped the goal was very classy. - Hogan's (I think it was Hogan)(maybe I just wanted it to be Hogan)intercept of a centering pass in the 4th qtr to keep his feet pick up the ball and kick to Davey who goaled was fantastic play. Also in the 3rd he came out and split the pack, picked up the ball and dished off a handpass that was also good. He didn't do much else but those two things were enough to give a glimpse that he will be very good.

*puts face in hands* This drawn out tanking summer really broke the funny bone around here, didn't it?

Every coaching panel needs a whipping boy and Royal is ours. Not sure why. Lets face it we did not exactly had the fittest or most talented players before Neeld, Craig, Misson & Associates arrived.

Is a med student an abject failure because he hasn't yet cured cancer? Give it some time.

Me and my brother drove up from Melbourne to see the game. I thought the crowd was great and the atmosphere was really lovely, food stalls all along the fence and the Port supporters weren't too bad. The sun was quite unbearable (my shoulder got badly burnt) so it must've been hard for the players, in fact they used an ice truck to keep cool during the breaks. Magner was a stand out (and was played on the ball where he belongs), and as a whole our team's tackling pressure and work rate were good. Just a few defensive problems, especially in the last quarter. Sellar was fantastic and Hogan was good early. Davis looked good in defence. Davey kicked 3 and laid a fantastic tackle in the first half, as well as some nice disposal. Kent, Terlich and Taggert were also very pleasing. I was a bit sceptical about us resting so many players but it was great to watch in the end, I was very glad we got over the line. Our midfield looked very strong, we were probably just undersized in defence. Good to see a lot of other Dees supporters there too. It felt like a great playing surface that I enjoyed kicking with my brother on during the weekend. It's a great place and the trip was definitely worth it

Now that's funny!!!

I like the line about him wanting to go back to help unify his community. I never knew that a machette was a unification tool and that the MFC drinking culture was worse than indigenous drinking culture.

That whole China trip is an effing joke the way it's reported about. Every single footy trip is an absolute [censored]-up and I don't understand why this journal seems to think Melbournes 'culture' bought him down. We didn't come up with post season drinking an frankly the fact Tom had to go home from such an event shows he's a [censored]. I know a few GWS players and actually went out with them a few weeks ago and they were far worse than the few times I've seen Melbourne players on the terps. Will Tom leave again? Liam has noone to blame but himself, but this clown to blame Melbournes drinking culture is a joke. I don't smoke so if all of my colleagues are, do I suddenly light up? God no. Such excuses for him are childish, take responsibility for your actions son and you may finally gain back the games respect.

I would suggest that Liam was exposed to alcohol well before he reached melbourne (town). Either way, I have worked with people who have addictions for decades. One issue is the blaming of others for their predicament. This just means Liam is pre contemplative with his issue and will struggle for a while yet,or at least until he takes responsibility for his own behaviour

You may be right in parts Dee-luded. But there is another side to your story Robbo - kicked bags of goals. As a HFF kick over 50 goals. Yze - All Aust with a fantasic left foot White - his athletic ability was amazing before the new circle rule for ruckman. HE was also very well known for his ability to play as an extra midfielder. Something other uckman could not negate. Nieta - His ability to lead men on field was very good. Always put his body in and hurt the opposition physicallly. kicked bags of goas. All Aust as CHB and FF. Games and goal record holder. In short, club champion I could go on but I will agree Danners went down hill in the end of his tenure. But his early years were very very good.

May I just say boys and girls I am super impressed with Dean Kent so far. Especially for where we selected him.

Not a fan of Daniher, wasn't fazed with Bailey - as he didn't have the cattle, big fan of Neeld's, his turnover of the list alone is worthy of his appointment. He has got rid of a lot of spuds and soft players and brought in hardnuts and blokes who want to have a dip. But, I admit Daniher did make a big effort in the media, was quite likable and was good for the club at the time. His list management skills and gameday tactics left little to be desired though. He did have a far better list than Bailey, who was basically just thrown under the bus in his gig with the club.

Yeah ... Luck was involved. Hammill hurting his leg in the previous game for starters.

Yawn...is it that hard to work out?One Word....ROLLERCOASTER. above Average year....Shite year....above average year....shite year...etc etc. what other club went through such a schitzophrenic period than the MFC under ND? We obviously had the talent there..Could ND harness it...No. Sadly he failed. He is a top bloke but his 10 years of coaching represented lost opportunities of the highest order. Those who disagree have never pushed through that pain barrier...

Don't get it... Neither have coached again??

when have a lauded Neeld. He is in his second year. Year 1 the club was in absolute turmoil for reasons we all know. I will begin to assess Neeld at the end of this year. ND had 10 years. Great bloke. Average coach who could not instill consistency. The talent was there between 98-2002. The GF was over at the 10 minute mark. I became depressed and surly. I was there. If that to you is a highlight Stuie your standards are not high enough. I will say that the pre game in 2000 was quite surreal because we were there, but i was quickly kicked in the guts, as i and all of the older 'landers were bitterly in '87 & '88. But Northey i rate far higher as we made finals 5 years in a row and in that time never had a killer CHF which in the 80's & 90's was a staple necessity.

Only watched Q1 but I wish Fox etc would learn a thing or two from the Port telecast. First, the commentator actually described the footy (and did a reasonable job considering on the MFC players) rather than the usual self-promotion and nostalgia talk we usually have to suffer. But more importantly it was possible to see what was going on rather than learning via endless close-ups how closely shaved each player was. Instead of zooming-in on a player about to take a free, they often zoomed out so we could see what his options were. Admittedly a bit hard to see what was happening in a distant pack, but a small price to pay. You'd think Fox with its multiple cameras could do a bit of both, but no, it's close-ups all the bleeding time. A good telecast for someone like me who lives interstate and can only get to games rarely.

We wasted nearly 10 Years under Daniher, & a similar amount under the previous coach. Thats 20 Years, 2 decades right there gone, wasted for poor underperfoming Results with reasonable lists to develop. 2 nice guys who dee livered nice results. We finally have a hard ass who has the guts & hopefully everlasting tenacity to produce the Ultimate result/s.

What happened in '01 - '03 and '05 then O ye of great memory. 2000 was a good year. The rest were inconsistent rubbish, even those when we staggered into the finals. Also left the list worse than he found it. Something we're still paying for now.

Who.....no, sorry, who cares?

I was at the game today and thought we pretty much looked the better side all day barring the last 5 minutes or so. They seemed to overuse the footy a bit where we were more direct but our pressure around the footy was a lot better than theirs. We still made some basic errors by foot and hand across half back that they created goals from but all in all there were some promising signs. Any questions, I'll try my best to answer although I admit I've had a couple.