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If it can't be found I vote the club gives her a brand new one with the entire list signed and throw in a couple of legends like Gary and Ox, and present it to her on the ground round 1.

The criticism wasn't directed at the discussion of Tapscott. The criticism was leveled at the highly critical tone of the subject line. If you want a discussion about Tappy, just say "where do you think Tapscott's at?". The present headline is as biased as a Range Rover poll title.

So there they sat, without us and talking about how fed up they are feeding us each year. The fact still remains that if you fixed the fixture, each and every club could turn a profit. For instance, give Melbourne Saturday home games against Hawthorn, Richmond, Essendon, Carlton and Collingwood and shift some of their games away from these slots. The fact remains they have enough supporters to watch them play at whatever time the AFL chooses. If you keep shafting the smaller clubs with these fixtures then be prepared to keep bailing them out. Quite frankly Eddie, you can shove a trident right up your a hole. All the smaller clubs are asking for is a level playing field in terms of the fixture. Fix that and you fix the games number 1 problem." Drop the NAB Cup, lengthen the season to 28 or 30 weeks plus finals and make sure every club gets the draw it needs to make money. Oh, and while you're at it reduce the salary cap by $2 million and tell some of these overpaid bogans to go and get a job to pay for their tattoos.

I'm really looking forward to the day when we're fighting over who is the toughest player in the team and not the softest.

Absolutely. Pity that that's not the question that was asked.

Imogen no possessions? I wonder if you can.

You keep thinking that, and believing the chicken little Liberals and their press club mates.

and reduce Demitriou's salary by $2.5 Million to put him on a par with the Prime Minister who is similarly talented at running down a large organisation!

I agree Dunn is faux-tough and the cognoscenti hate him for it - but I've got a bit of time for him - he can actually play and has found a role that really suits him. I recall the incident Left Field highlighted and it was a shocker, but the running with the flight spoil in the BP was all class - that's a very hard skill. If he can fake it until he makes it on the toughness front then he can become a very handy player. He's well in my starting 18 right now.

Mate it clearly had a question mark and the OP was posting it as a point if discussion on this, a discussion forum. Just chill the [censored] out and don't take everything so seriously. No wonder this site is going to the dogs anyone who dares put up something for discussion which is outside the 15-20 regulars "status quo" is immediately ridiculed and bullied. Just take it for what it is and if you disagree say so but don't attack people just because you read things into people's comments that aren't there. Whether the OP was clumsily written or not the guy has since clarified his opinion so why the need to beat it into the ground?

Dunn is one of the chief contributors to the stigma. He acts tough in lieu of actual toughness, and wets himself when we really need someone to stand up. He's been an exponent of some of the weakest contest efforts I've seen. He has you fooled, and that is why I am sad

Tough players put their head over the ball and body on the line, they don't niggle their opponents.

Ben, You're wrong again. Grinter was the epitome of tough. He ran hard and straight and never deviated, slowed down, or dodged a collision. His primary focus was the ball on 99% of occasions. He was also fearless in the air. His skills were also very good. His reputation should remain in tact. and so should yours with comments like those.

gee cause the obsession with softer bodies with skill worked out so well for us

It still comes back to the fixture. It's plainly not fair and the smaller clubs are being shafted all the while the bigger clubs are starting to complain about paying us. Worse still they're doing it without us. Football as we love it is fast disappearing into an all too familiar corporate shite hole.

Why does a surplus in the treasury equate to good governance? Howard and Costello had every opportunity in the boom years to take this country to the stratosphere but were poor visionaries. Abbott's latest policy? 'We'll cut public service jobs?' Wow! Creative, inspiring and has NEVER been done before - the guy's good. That's okay, Palmer will continue to build his Titanic and Reinhart will be the richest woman in the cemetery. Now, back to equity....players deserve the coin they get, the game's brutal. There should be a salary cap on footy departments. I hope we keep our Queen's Birthday game.

Ben is a Lynden Dunn kind of poster- Happy to go the man to look tough in the public Demonland forum, but when challenged he cracks the sads and puts you on ignore. It is pure bully behavior, and all bully behavior stems from insecurity.

It's definitely a first for me. I wonder if Ben's been feeling okay lately - first the bizarre Grinter link to the thread that seemed tenuous at best, then criticizing me for not criticizing Watts in a thread about Dunn. It all seems very odd.

His kicking was terrible last week, but I am still a big fan of his. It wasn't that long ago that people were saying that Jonesy's disposal was terrible and that he was a liability, now he is our best midfielder and one of a very few that would be a walk up start in just about every team. I'm not saying Jordie will get to that level, but he wins his own ball and has shown great ability in nullifying some of the competitions best players. I think there is a place in the team for a very long time, and the fact he's been added to the leadership group tells me the coaching staff think the same way. With Morton gone I reckon he and Joel Mac will become the club's whipping boys.

He could, of course, improve his kicking and decision making and learn to live within his means so to speak. In which case, he will be here for a while. I don't know whether he could do it, but I didn't think Jones could become what he has become and the thing they both have in common is their work ethic and desire. Let's see how he goes this season.

I am not going to play semantic games about the language of Osilik - he is easier to read than The Brave Little Toaster. He was implying he is a failure and he is doing it in March. He has every right to do so, as do we when we say WTF.

You don't label Demons failures (a BP 'special') in March without a few people saying WTF.

Last weekend, Dunn had the choice to go hard at the ball in a marking contest across half back as he came in from the side and slightly from the front. The minimum standard in that contest was making some body contact. Once again, he swatted at the ball and missed everything. After this many years in the system, I cannot see why people think he is tough (he isn't) or that he is best 22. I don't have him in my team.

I don't know about you but I don't use Morton and Gysberts as the yard stick. There's a reason why they were traded in for scrap value. Refusal to be intimidated - great - until it's time to go get the ball. I couldn't give a stuff about jumper punching and butting heads with blokes on the field, that's not toughness and it has no value. I can't believe you'd ignore the "odd shirked contest" and cheer about pretending to be tough. You laud behaviour I find embarrassing.

He is the best tagger we have so he stays in the team. Also haven't seen much mention of his tackling. Clearly leads our team in tackling, putting that pressure on so the other mids can get the ball. He's disposal needs work but I think he does enough and works hard enough to warrant a spot.

Going nude then lfR?

Easily best 22 this year. He is 22 years old and 50 games under his belt. His best is yet to come. Posters who say we are playing with a man down in the midfield have no idea what they are talking about. Disposal by foot is not great and I get frustrated with the amount of pplayers who can't kick but Jordie is a keeper.

I take on board what Clint and others have said. Toughness is indeed best exemplified by the Selwoods and Browns of the competition. Bravery and putting your head over the ball best encapsulates toughness. However, there is NOTHING wrong with a bit of niggle, especially when your team is seemingly devoid of any spirit. On a weekly basis we have witnessed this team put in meek, heartless performances, to the point where a hip and shoulder from Tapscott had you cheering on your feet, and if it didn't, it should have. As for Dunn, he stands up in different ways, the likes of which you would never see from a Morton or a Gysberts. When he kicks a goal he gets in his opponent's face. When one of his teammates is being roughed up, he's first one on the scene it give it back to them. In short, he has a bit of bravado and stubborn refusal to be intimidated by anyone. The odd shirked contest may have washed over me because I'm just that used to it from those wearing red and a blue for the past few years, but when it comes to standing up to his opponent, Dunn has been the exception to the rule. If I'm in the minority for applauding him, so be it.

Is Tapscott a good kick or a long kick? Where is his role? Is he capable of playing midfield as is required of most non key positions these days. Aside from body size is he above average in endurance or speed or agility. Needs a clear run at it but I struggle to work out where he fits or if he has a tool that will get him above others.

Disagree with the negative slant about Tappy in the title of this thread. We waited until late last year to see an injury free Blease and he is a mouth watering prospect for this year - even if he has another minor injury. I want Tappy to be given (earn) 8 - 10 games, in the forward line playing a Chappy-type role. We have bemoaned our kicking skills for 4-5 years or more, and this bloke is a seriously good kick. With him, Strauss, Dunn, Watts, Clark and now also Toumpas we have kicking ability. Don't just look at Tappy's muscles and expect him to be Rod Grinter. Watch his football when he is injury free, hoping that he can be some time soon. At this stage he is probably not in our best 22 but I would like him to be.

I think they are both poor in the defensive art of spoiling, whether one has more aggression or not the end result is the same, the opposition have the ball.

How is it that selfishness has penetrated our great land, & our great egalitarian culture? Maybe the person organising the signing of the jumpers, gave the wrong jumper back to the wrong people.

Just did that then, not a huge Twitter person but I reckon it could be good PR.

We don't have another player (right now) who can tag at the level that McKenzie can. We need someone who can tag the best midfielder of the opposition clubs - especially against other teams of our standing and for those teams who are challenging for the 8. In other words, right now, we need a player who can tag Cotchin, Black, Hayes/Dal Santo, Ablett, Judd/Murphy, Harvey, Watson etc etc. However, Neeld needs to figure out a way where we can utilise McKenzie's possessions. A quick 'dish off' handpass to a teammate would be the easiest solution. If the opposition are a wake up to this, then McKenzie's handpass could be the 1st in a quick series to ultimately release a good/very good distributor. He should only kick the ball as a last resort - unless his kicking and his kicking to position can improve dramatically. We do have a number on our list who need to improve their decision making when kicking the ball. The execution of our kicking skills needs a dramatic improvement as well. So McKenzie is not on his own in that dept.

Plenty of people know what tough is. its not reserved for AFL. there are people everywhere who go against the odds & survive what they are doing. in all walks of life. Tough is overcoming adversity. and doing whats necessary, when required. In a team its putting the others ahead of your own interests, and sacrificing your interests for the sake of the club & the team. cc.

The AFL will be in big trouble in a decade or two if the league doesn't provide a useful method of equalisation. I don't mind the Bulldogs suggestion of a pokie tax for an initial method. If clubs are supporting themselves by these horrible means they could share the wealth from it. Ultimately though the AFL need to make a clear and responsible choice on the fixture And if they don't even it up then they will have to be very strong on fat Eddie and his mates and to explain the situation about the massive compensation owed to the shafted clubs. Also I certainly think the Afl should try to purchase Etihad early which would boost north and the bulldogs.

Maybe you can offer discounted parking?

The only way to make change is to implement a movement or idea. As a club the powers that be can probably start a movement & lead the equalisation debate. Along with North, the dogs, the saints & MFC I'm sure there is enough clout between those clubs to form an alliance of sorts to push for change within the AFL. Whether any of those clubs have smart enough people in positions of power to try influence the AFL is another story. Also the AFL currently only listens to the $ so any attempts at fixing or correcting the current system in place is probably feeble & would be a drawn out process.

Maybe call the club and strongly suggest it, even if she does find it . great PR for all.

Well said. Or, if you want to keep a team on the drip like, say, Melbourne...give em MCG home games against Port Adelaide, West Coast, GWS, Gold Coast, Sydney and Freo and only two home games against big drawing clubs, say, Hawks and Pies. Oh wait! They already did that? And a home game at Etihad against a Victorian club? Amazing.

The "Vacant BP" spot is not a reference to Prendegast I hope. Neville will be an "overnight" sensation. Not a BP quiet achiever . Evans is in the same boat .

"Refusal to be intimidated"?? I've seen him flinch quite a few times, when someone has bitten back. Most notably the chapman incident. There's nothing tough about that, it's just cringeworthy. Ugh.

I am upbeat about this bloke. Having seen him at training he looks to be in great nick. Excellent kick, physically strong - I am a bit optimistic about him breaking out in 2013. Just needs a consistent run at it.

lol Biff, But seriously, hopefully this can be sorted out. If not she should get a new one with #5 and be happier!!!!

Wines is a tall bullish mid with a good tank. I can't understand your comparison. I don't see Tapscott as a whipping boy as I am not seeing criticism of his endeavour or courage purely that his output may not fit the pick we chose to use on him.

fair to say he is under the pump not like he needs time to develop physically needs to lift as neeld wont accept mediocre

I hate Deeland sometimes. The OP is posing the question on where Tapscott is at heading into this season based on past output, a legitimate question, and certain posters have this compulsive need to belittle and sound clever. Pull your heads in. Or out, as the case may be.

Good topic this one. I was a big Tapscott fan from when we first drafted him up until about mid-last year. I have cooled quite a bit on him though, because he has done nothing of worth on the football field. I am still waiting............. He doesn't get it enough to have much of an impact. He showed some good signs against Adelaide in round 21? last year during the first quarter, but then did nothing afterwards (similar to the rest of the team though). He needs to find consistency as well as consistent ball, but then again so does the rest of our team (i guess that's why we are where we are). I love his size and he can be quite physical at times (which we all love) and would like to see more of it, all be it controlled. His hit on Reece Shaw was a thing of beauty, but other than that, he hasn't done too much else. Time for him to step-up or just be another could've-been.

Have you been watching us for the past 6 years? I don't even want to watch half the time..............