Leaderboard

Mark Fine was just sticking up for MFC on SEN just now. Stating how ridiculous the whole thing is based on a few comments made by Brock Mclean. Implored the AFL to get off Melbournes back, citing many other examples of clubs such as Carlton, Richmond,Freo,Collingwood,Hawthorn etc etc, doing exactly the same thing in certain games experimenting with players in different positions, not tagging, resting players, using less interchange etc. He said it was akin to a school headmaster walking into a room full of misbehaving children and singling one out of the pack , grabbing them by the ear and marching them out for punishment.

which made no mention of charging the club, CS, DB and CC, so in that respect deegirl was not quite "on the money"

I didn't really want to start a new thread for new this - but I could have. Factor a bit of intelligence and business nous into the equation - and I reckon our man is unquestionably at the the top of the tree. Check out the list of VCE High Achievers in the paper - and there sitting right up near the top for Business Management is a certain Jack Viney from Carey Grammar with a cool 48!! I don't know his ATAR score - but 48 for any subject ( 48 out of 50, that is) is damn good especially when you're heading off to Gosch's Paddock in the middle of "swot Vac" as Jack was. Smart as well...................future captain !! Well done Jack

Come out west. The western suburbs are great. No need for the perfectly cut lawn and if your car catches on fire you can leave it on the street. It's a modern garden decoration. You can wear footy jumpers every day of the week and have great access to such iconic fashion designers as fubu and stussy.

After living in Prahran ,Malvern ,St Kilda and South Melbourne ,Port etc I moved to the WestSIDE beatches! If you barrack for Melbourne this side of the bridge they call you "Sir"and bow slightly as you walk by .As I would expect . Been West for Ten years . When the smell of the refinery gets in your blood -your can never leave it . We dont go out for dinner here ,we go out for tea . Yet I will admit that St Kilda and Elwood ,Middle park ,Alert Park etc are the best places to live in town by a long way . South Yarra is a hole unless you like wearing white jeans ,chambrey shirts and boat shoes ,in which case you will blend in .

I don't read other forums, so if someone with 3 posts comes in out of the blue saying they heard a "rumor" that we are going down as a result of this unjust witch-hunt I will voice my cynicism. I scoff at rumors at the best of times, let alone one so bold- from a poster who I presumed had just signed up to stir the pot (rather huge 3rd post no?) Doesn't make me or anyone else who questioned the legitimacy of the one line OP a "clown"

CC absolutely should have an adverse finding against him for his comments and be asked to explain. CC should absolutely refute the adverse finding and as Dean Bailey pointed out make it clear that they were tongue in cheek, flippant remarks. This is a process that is being followed and I expected nothing less. Nothing has changed. To all those who want to plead guilty and limit the damage I would refer them to Loges,RPFC, BB, the post above and others. Step one - weigh up the evidence - if it weak then respond to the AFL and let them know if there are any charges they will be vigourously defended. If it is strong ( and we have yet to hear of anything resembling "strong") and can be shown to actual break a rule then you work with the AFL to minimise the damage. The only smoking gun we have heard about is injudicious comments by Chris Connelly that are more than open to intepretation as to their seriousness - is that all they have got ? if so.... AFL late January - "after presenting the evidence to the MFC and receiving back detailed responses we find the MFC has no case to answer. Chris Connelly, has been cautioned on remarks that were made that were open to misinterpretation and this is a good lesson for all administrators on the being careful with throw away lines. The situation that has predicated this "tanking" investigation has been somewhat been lessened by the granting of priority picks only at the AFL discretion. From the 2013 draft onwards we will have a lottery system in place so the circumstances arising to the suggestion that a team is playing for picks cannot arise again."

Thank you Brock McLean. Thank you Gerard Healy, Mike Sheahan and Paul Roos. And thank you Caroline Wilson. It's a real concern that, on the face of it, a nothing story can generate so much carp for a club now intent on getting its house in order. And yet Carlton is not in the AFL's sights?! It's not only about consistency here, it's also about the integrity of the underlying journalism and the quality of the investigation that's on the line here. Effectively they all seem to be extremely concerned about a gag made by CC. Are we in Kansas?

There seems to be some confusion here but this report from the Herald Sun AFL asks Melbourne Demons to respond to tanking claims from 2009 season states that no charges have been laid against the club or any individual but evidence that has been gathered during the investigation will be put to "the relevant parties to give them an opportunity to comment." There may very well be no charges laid at all depending on the evidence and the comments/explanations of the club and/or any of the individuals involved. This is a far cry from what deegirl maintained in the OP or what Damien Barrett claimed in his tweet several pages back. Things could change over time but I have yet to see anything that resembles the sort of evidence necessary to amount to a breach of AFL rules of tanking as they have been interpreted by high ranking AFL officials over recent years. If evidence existed that was strong enough to sustain a charge against the club, I believe that charges would already have been laid. This is yet another storm in the tanking teacup and it's time to go back to our Christmas parties and other end of year activities.

I've just finished reading Neeldys Darwin bullish article, wow. I'm so impressed by the man and his staff, he has taken our club by the scruff off the neck and demanded a change to become a professional outfit, and IT'S happening, no bshit, just do it or out you go. These two statements from the article say it all for me. "The formula is no secret. A core group of existing players were identified during 2012 that could take the club forward. Added to that core was a set of players with experience and willing to lead, A-grade juniors with a work ethic to match their talent and a set of mature-agers with the capacity to train and play hard." "The coach does not finish the sentence, distracted for a second, but it's obvious the group is trying to create a culture that sets no limits, makes no excuses and tolerates no complaining." I for one just want improvement from the horrors of previous years, and i reckon we might finally b on the right bus with Mr Neeld and his staff, no great expectations yet, as he said, "Our plans go longer than one year because they need to," We as supporters are really being kept in mind by this crew with a real fresh honesty about the place and I'm just loving it, even the reports from our own Dlanders must not go unmentioned, thanks ppl. I was an 8 yr old in 64 and was at the G that day, I really can't remember how the club was run then but we had success,( we sacked THE FOX so it couldn't have been great), now we have a professionalism with honesty and accountability, hopefully the success returns with the new breed. I'm ready to come outta the dirty rotten trench and fight hand to hand with the bastards Mr Neeld. Have a good break all. Go the MIGHTY DEE's, stick it up em.

I popped along, but didn't watch much of the main group. As I wandered across from Punt Road the first group I came to was Toumpas, Viney, the big Kent, M. Jones. Terlich, Tynan and Jamar. This group of 7 were training separately to the main group on the eastern side of the ground in the forward area. I love watching the new talent so thought I'd plonk myself right there, which was away from the main group and nearly all other spectators. They did various drills, which included sidestepping and getting around a front on opponent before hitting up a leading target. They'd then rebound to an initial target in the pocket before kicking to a longer flank/wing option. As a follow on from this drill the last recipient of the long ball, who by now was some way from the makeshift (rugby) goal, was encouraged to run and carry, before kicking for goal from 45 metres on the run from a bit of an angle. The two standouts for me were Viney and Toumpas. Toumpas' short-passing was brilliant and often congratulated by the recipient. Viney's passing was also pinpoint. He really is a very good 30 metre fast, low and accurate kick. The big Kent is a good kick too, although he was slightly hooking his longer kicks for goal. Tynan is moving well and a big unit. Terlich miscalculated the odd kick. Matt Jones is a nice height and a very good kick, but dropped a couple of marks with hands out in front that he should have taken. It was noticeable that they weren't taken on the chest even though they could have been. Boy, I love Viney and Toumpas. One just looks like a born leader that is going to be a driving force at this club and the other reeks of balance and class. I watched a bit more of the main group, plus the joggers, but don't have too much more to add to the reports already given. Grimes ran lap after lap after lap at a quick clip. Dawes and Gawn separately did the same. As did Clisby and Stark together. I got more glimpses of Barry gliding across the turf and using his really nice left foot. I understand the Long comparisons. If he isn't soft we may have a real talent there. You can spot class a mile away. And I reckon Pedersen has lost his holiday weight. I saw him at his first training session and he was carrying more condition than any other player, but he's moving well and is a nice kick. I reckon Pedersen will be considered a fantastic addition by season's end. Finally, I watched a bit of stoppage work with Fitzpatrick, Viney, N. Jones, Rodan, Magner, Sylvia, and one or two others. It was more positioning and reacting rather than competing, although they were manning up one-on-one, so not as intense as other stoppage work I've seen. Having watched us slaughtered in this area over recent years I hope we make some much needed inroads. Viney has great hands and a low centre of gravity. I don't care if other supporters think I'm being unrealistic, or placing too much pressure on a young kid, I'm not, it's simply my belief that he'll rival Jones as our best mid in his first year. By year's end he'll certainly have no-one other than Jones ahead of him. We're getting a ready made quality addition here. Toumpas adds the outside class, and will be a darling of the Melbourne faithful.

The majority of readers seemed to haven drawn the conclusion that my post was to stir everyone up. It wasn't, it was to share news about the club with other keen supporters. I was a little surprised by the majority being so quick to dismiss the post but that's fair, any reasonable person would want to ask questions. You guys will just have to take my word that when I post these things I'm doing it because I think other MFC tragics will want to hear them. As for posting regularly, it's not my thing. And for my previous posts being negative? In 20+ years of watching Melbourne (as a member) I cannot remember a more demoralising season of football.

See I dont see it that way - the investigators are not the judge and jury - all they can do is present evidence - it is up to the commission to decide after we respond if charges are to be laid and I am thinking that commission has wider considerations than just the MFC. To make this clear I have never advocated that we shouldnt get charged because others have done the same. However the commission realises that if they charge the MFC for a retrospective act of tanking, then this charge must set a benchmark/standard of what constitutes tanking and then the AFL must apply this same standard against other clubs. So Ron Burgundy cant understand why Carlton arent in the crosshairs of the AFL - my thinking is that the commission is worried about an adverse finding against the MFC for the exact reason that the standard has to be applied to other clubs as well. I think that Carlton, WCE,Hawks Collingwood, Richmond, Stkilda and Freo are very much in the minds of the commissioners and the flow on affect of a guilty verdict - for this reason alone I think the AFL will apply the narrowest of narrow definitions to tanking and there will be no case to answer.

Fevola: "You could tell in the rooms," Fevola said of the Round 22 loss to Melbourne. "I didn't play that last game either. I had my finger done. I left at quarter time. I didn't even stay. I was home at half-time and listened to the radio. "We didn't want to win. I always say to people that when you look at that game, were we tanking? "We would tag Travis Johnstone every time we played them, because Ratts (coach Brett Ratten) came from Melbourne (as an assistant coach) - and Johnstone had 42 touches. "We tagged him every single time we played him. (Heath Scotland) had a few touches as well. But they didn't play on each other. "If we were serious about it, we would have tagged him." FORMER AFL star Brendan Fevola has reignited the tanking furore, claiming Carlton took steps to make it "more difficult for us to win games" as the 2007 season drew to a close. In his new book, Fev, In My Own Words, Fevola said the Blues were put in a "crazy situation", where they benefited from losing by gaining a priority draft pick for ruckman Matthew Kreuzer. The two-time Coleman Medallist said the club took "initiatives" such as asking players to have surgeries and making unusual match-ups. "It did seem like the club did a lot of things that made it more difficult for us to win games," Fevola, who yesterday kicked 18 goals in an exhibition match in Tasmania, wrote. "Often there was banter on the field about tanking," Fevola has said in the book. "I remember one incident in our game against Essendon in round 20. We kicked four goals in the second quarter and were 21 points up when the half-time siren sounded. "As I started walking towards the rooms, my opponent, Mal Michael, turned to me and said, 'What are you blokes doing? You don't want to win this game.' I smiled and said to him, 'Yeah, I don't think we'll win, mate.' "Sure enough, we ended up losing by 10 points." Liberatore: FORMER Carlton assistant coach Tony Liberatore has accused the club of "tanking" matches at the end of last season. The Blues lost their final 11 matches in 2007, ensuring they won few enough matches to earn a priority national draft pick, which they used to pick up talented young ruckman Matthew Kreuzer. Liberatore, who was part of the Blues coaching staff at the time, told the Footy Show last night that winning "wasn't the be all and end all'' for the club during the final matches of the year. Asked if he felt that constituted tanking, he said: "I would have to say yes.'' The AFL will interview Tony Liberatore next week over tanking claims made against Carlton, but say the former Blues assistant will need to produce a specific allegation to prompt an investigation. That appears unlikely, as Liberatore has already admitted coaching staff never talked about tanking and there was never any directive to lose from Blues officials. AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou said that from what he had read of Liberatore's comments, made on the Nine Network's AFL Footy Show, there was nothing that would warrant an investigation. "If he put a specific allegation to us about the Carlton Football Club then we would go and speak to the Carlton Football Club and look into it," Demetriou said. Asked what sort of allegation would be required, Demetriou said: "If someone at the football club said to Tony Liberatore, directed him to do A, B, C, D to lose the game, that's a really serious matter." The Blues strongly defended themselves against Liberatore's claims and said they would consider legal action. Liberatore said the club made dubious team selections and positional moves in the final games of last season, in what he believed amounted to tanking. Amazing Carlton aren't being investigated with two insiders claiming the above. Would hope Melbourne raises this as well... Why is there an investigation even??? What 'evidence' prompted this investigation?? McLean's comments? Is that it?? Seems pretty tame compared to the Carlton comments yet we are under the gun?? DOesn't make sense to me...

I volunteer we give up the Crows' first two picks in 2012.

It will be interesting to see our response to the 'evidence' presented. This could be the making of this administration and of the Melbourne Football Club. I note that they have not sent letters to the other clubs involved in tanking or list management - Carlton, Hawthorn, Richmond, Collingwood, etc. Obviously they were unable to locate their addresses. Barrett is the new Robert Walls - repeat what you hear from other commentators or those prepared to put their jatz crackers on the line!!

Well said Nutbean, and I thank you for showing respect in regards to your post. I'm over the disrespectful posts on here, especially when someone voices an opinion that is different to the masses. On the otherhand, this bit I have bolded is just speculation on your behalf. I hope you're right, I hope to hell that it is subjective evidence that the AFL has in their hands. But, as Loges highlighted above, even the journo's no nothing. Is this because that's the point, that there is nothing? Or is it becasue the AFL has managed to keep a tight hold of what they have and are giving the journo's nothing? Let's face it, the people Caro contacted to fuel her argument are most likely punters that the AFL wouldn't even bother interviewing. I do admire the confidence that some have regarding the fact that the evidence is weak and that we will be fine. At this stage, I haven't seen anything, so I'd love to know what they have, or more to the point, what they don't have. Until then, I await the MFC's response to the recent statement made by the people that know, the AFL.

Billy, I will continue to critique anyone who is advocating now - ( yes you - Bring back Powell) - that we plead guilty and try and damage control the penalties. Before contemplating this course of action two things need to happen first 1/ We need to be charged with something 2/ The evidence that led to the charges need to be scrutinized for strength and reliability Then and only then can a sensible, rational, clear thinking MFC make a decision as to the course of action to take. So when anyone posts that the AFL must have something or they wouldnt be doing this or how can half the footy journo's be wrong and the investigators are judge and jury ( judge and judy ?) and no use fighting their outcomes - when anyone wants to raise the white flag NOW and plead guilty - I will continue to harshly ( but with respect) critique their posts EDIT - the above refers to "whoa is us " posters not Deegirl. I'll prefer to withhold my whoa is us until I actually have something to whoa about

The head in the sand, no way they can single us out group here amazes me. I love your optimism but we are dealing with the AFL remember so anything can happen. I am told that there is enough evidence for the Commission to lay charges if they feel like it and there is enough wriggle room if they don't want to. In the end it will come down to those people on the Commission reaching a consensus one way or the other - so it's just like a jury verdict. Plenty of innocent have been found guilty by juries and plenty of guilty have walked free. It will be close, for people to just sit back and bah humbug the whole thing is niave.

Melbourne Fc : So have you questioned that tactics of Carlton, Richmond, Freo and West coast when they were low on the ladder? Afl Commision: No Melbourne Fc: Ohhh I see...And have you also questioned the likes of Hawthorn leaving half their team out against GWS? Afl Commision: Ahhhh....No? Melbourne Fc: Then we have no case to answer then? Afl Commission: That's Correct. Melbourne Fc: Hello Caro Caroline Wilson: Hello Melbourne Fc, I would like to start backpeddling now.... Melbourne Fc: Fair enough....We would like to advise you that both Chris Connolly and Cameron Scwhab are persuing defamtion cases against you. Caroline Wilson: Oh sh*t!! END STORTY

As John Ralph just said on SEN, "there is no smoking gun". They'll table what they believe to be evidence, get Melbourne's response, which will be to deny any allegations, and then the AFL will decide a course of action, if any. I'm very comfortable with where we stand.

I've read this thread, and many other threads and articles regarding the tanking issue. One thing I have to say about what is posted about the topic on Demonland, I'm sick to death of the people who are in the "nothing to see, move along" corner. Can you please remind of a few things? * This is a public forum, where everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Your opinion is that we will get off, some don't have that opinion. What's with the arrogant, smart-arse posting, having shots at people that don't think the same as you? The whole "the sky is falling" crap, FFS, grow up. * How can you be so sure that we are going to get off? Unless you work for the AFL, you are basing this on nothing other than what the media (you know, those people that we all abuse about trying to bring us down) are reporting. Your evidence is no different to those that believe we are guilty, although it could be argued that some of our games in 2009 would allow us to think that something wasn't "quite right". It's pretty ordinary that a number of you took pot shots at DeeGirl for raising the topic. She obviously had the word; no, it's not 100% accurate...yet. She did say that cetain bodies had been charged, which, according to media outlets, isn't quite accurate. People want her to name her source, why? What if she worked at the AFL? Do you think they would want one of their employees posting stuff on supporter forums? If she's got form, I am happy to take her word for it. You soon learn who does have the contacts, or when they get "the word", and it is often clear who has no bloody idea and are just making [censored] up. Deegirl is obviously one that does know her stuff. So, let's try and make this thread a little bit more enjoyable. None of us know what the outcome will be, we all hope it won't be a guilty verdict, but who knows? Not I, or any of you. I do find it funny how when the $cummy issue was around, that the all in the media were driving the "he's leaving", that they had seen "evidence" that he had signed, a majority on here believed it, and it turned out spot on. Yet this issue, the media are driving that "we're guilty" bus, they claim to have spoken to key figures, have knowledge of various incidients that took place in 2009, yet now, the majority are saying that they are out to get us?

Wilson has been very quiet of late... Look, the AFL want out of this and the want to win the news cycle, getting us to roll over on CC is what they want. They can get stuffed. If they didn't want this mess, then they shouldn't have left Dopey Andersen in charge when The Bloated One went the the Olympics. No punishment. No firings. No 'adverse findings.' If they want something, they can have a nuanced statement that we were flippant about it (CC's joke) and that is disappointing. But that is it.

Deegirl is always on the money. Hopefully the reaction from some of the clowns on here doesn't prevent her from sharing info in the future. I wouldn't give ya's a cracker.

I'm in the Insurance business and one of my mates in the industry is a Surveyor, it's his job to determine the suitability or otherwise of a risk and to recommend whether his company should accept or decline cover. He told me many years ago that if he looked at a risk, even if it was tip top, he would report some minor infringement of Fire regulations or Safety because if he didn't his employer would think he hadn't done his job. These clowns have spent more than 6 months investigating this and I would imagine that they have determined that there must be a "sacrificial lamb" so they look like they've done their job. I hope the club defend any employee of the club that's put under the pump, if we don't we will look like we are as weak as [censored] and as guilty as hell.

I can't remember where the comment was, but there was a whisky discussion somewhere on Demonland a while back (read: months ago, probably in this very thread). Finally picked up one of the mentioned ones (the aberlour a'bunadh) after work today and my mouth is exploding. In a good way. Cheers to whoever those fine gents were *raising glass*

I see it as subjective as the investigation and "crime" the MFC is being accused of in not "tanking", but rather "talking openly about tanking'. This is evident in their refusal to look at other instances of "tanking" and for the crimes being presented to the club relating not to the club doing it (tanking) but, far worse, talking about doing it... It's a farce and subjective in that the crime is not in the "tank" but in the trail of evidence of the club's "open intent to tank".

I don't understand why people compare our situation with the issues Adelaide have faced. In regards to salary cap and draft tampering there are clear well defined rules that clubs are aware of and break at their peril. In our case there are no clear and well defined rules and the case seems to be about censoring CC for talking too loudly and openly about what clubs in our position have been doing for a decade, positioning themselves for the future. It seems weird that people are talking about our being penalised for CC's big mouth.

Even the 'perpetual disbelievers' must see that we are now on a new route, a route that our club hasn't travelled for many years. We are no longer wandering around aimlessly in the 'bulldust'. We know where we are going, and have a damn good idea how to get there. It will be a while before we reach the highway, but we are back on bitumen (2013 will prove that!). We now have hope, and the further along this road we travel, the more lights we will see. The free-way is ahead of us, and if we maintain our focus, and avoid the temptation to take short cuts, it will lead us to the G in September one year soon. When that September comes, we will have Mark Neeld and the team of professionals that support him to thank for setting us on the right track in 2012, and guiding us along the way.

Removing easy access to guns reduces the likelihood of these events occurring. Since the PA massacre, there have been zero (yes, count them...zero) mass killings in Australia (in the decade prior to PA there had been something like 6 or 8). In the US since the Columbine spree, there have been a further 16 or 18 such mass killings - guess which country enacted tougher gun laws? A perfect example of the limitations on access to guns/semi auto weapons, was played out on the same day as this latest event took place in the US... in China where access to guns is very very strictly controlled, a nutjob attacked 22 primary school children with a knife... no one was killed and no one was seriously wounded. The other thing that was brought to my attention and that I think speaks volumes for the double standards that exist in this debate... Kinda Surprise are banned from import and sale in the US because they present a choking hazard for small children... guns however...

Did everybody sleep alright last night? It is very edgy in here today...Breathe in Breathe out. The AFL have finished their Gestapo investigation. We the MFC now have 21 days to prepare a Defence. Good. It's our turn now. WE HAVE NOT BEEN CHARGED WITH ANYTHING. I hope the Kruezer Cup is mentioned somewhere in our defence. Carlton have a far stronger case to answer imo.

Concur totally with the tanking effect on the club, which is why I believe th enew culture we seem to be heading towards as a no nonsense team will be good for us. Need to be a team who endeavours to win every game and be fierce at every contest. I want the Dees to be the team all supporters of the other clubs hate to play against!

This idea has me a bit curious, not to your assertion but that all the way along it does indeed seemed to have been leaking. We even had word about this latest chapter, the "evidence is presented" before it became public. We learnt of the "techniques" of the inquisition even some of its targets etc not only before it was p-k but that it even should be. The Heraldry of the AFL ought to be a Sieve and Sceptre !!

Are you criticising people for criticising people?

What Muggleton is teaching them is not to prop ie stop dead stay on your toes, also to read which way the player is going to attempt to step, that way the tackle sticks and they dont just 'wave an arm' as they go past He is also teaching them to tackle low and push backwards and upwards, that way the player can't slip down and the arms up, even Barry who is a stick seems to be listening instead of taking Tapscott front on, he has the side, arms nice and low and under one arm and pushing backwards

Jolimont. Don't compromise. Priorities.

I popped in for a bit yesterday. Happy to comment on any questions people have. Otherwise, a few random comments/ observations: The unidentified participants mentioned in the drill with Blease and Barry, were Kent, Stark and Clisby. Conditions were quite blustery which made kicking a challenge. In spite of this Barry's kicking skills really stood up, he is a beautiful user of the ball, and reminds me so much of a young Michael Long, in the way he moves. Blease's skills were also impressive, his kicking was harder and flatter than Barry's but still accurate. I spoke briefly with Maxy Gawn, he said he will rejoin the main training group on the first day back from christmas break (Jan 2nd). Grimesy still not with the main group, he did lots of running, and looks in magnificent condition. I'm unaware of any specific injury complaint (anyone got any information here?) I wonder if this will be the norm for him for the rest of his career due to his history of injuries. Perhaps they are going to minimise his pre-christmas workload each year, then step him up in January? Dawes looks great too, still good size up top, but overall seems leaner than I remember him at Collingwood. Those missing today were: Hogan, Spencer, Dunn, McKenzie, Trengove. Watts, and Taggert ran laps together and did lots of short sharp handballing. At one stage they juggled 3 footies by handballing to each other from about a metre apart, Watts' hand/eye co-ordination was very impressive here, as almost every time it was Taggert that made the mistake. There was a drill which went for 10-15 mins where half the team (in fluro green) played a defensive press, while the blue team tried to work the ball through from a full-back position, ultimately kicking it to Pedersen at the other end. The problem was the boys at the back for the blue team were: Joel MacDonald, T-Mac, Troy Davis and Gillies. The kicking skills on display from these boys were poor to say the least, especially Joel Mac, at one point he turned the ball over on 4 consecutive occassions. I felt sorry for both him, and also the rest of the blue group who were consequently getting nothing out of the drill. I really admire Joel Mac for his attack on the ball, and unquestionable effort however, his kicking really is a liability. After I left I'm told by a mate who stayed that the boys did some work on their annual christmas video.

I think this may very well be the case. Though Im not even convinced they will even hang an individual out to dry but need to seem as though they intend to. this strikes me as a controlled manouvre by the AFL as part of its "PUBLIC" presentation of its findings.. its effectively propaganda on behalf of the AFL. It as some suggest needs to show something for all the effort but its all SHOW. Melbourne will review the so called evidence and proffer its explanations( and most likely with e a veiled warning ) . AFL will take this under advisement and then will probably drop the whole thing after deliberating and deciding that the Dees answers are/were plausible. case closed...thats my take

Are you sure you actually live in Melbourne?!

I've had this account for a while but now seems like an appropriate time to introduce myself... Seriously if we get charged who else would we want backing us? Finkle-who? S'all good man!

Hardly shallow. Perhaps I've not explained it clearly. Neeld had a terrible year and the team was a disgrace. There are many, many factors behind this and neeld can only bare a relatively small portion of responsibility. Now, Neeld needs to show an improvement in team performance that is marked this year. Why - because this is his team and it is far more advanced now than Bailey's bunch. Neeld has a lot more resources behind him and he's had two preseasons. You pointed out that Hird had the bombers playing effective defensive footy after one preseason. Let's see if neeld can do it after two. Posters can make all the blue-sky statements all they like about the team and improvement. I've made them; I've believed them. I think the only reliable metric is wins. It is lagging indicator of improvement but at least it is an actual indicator - albeit with some weaknesses. Now, in a year with an easy draw, Neeld need to show marked improvement measured in wins - not in 'gelling', not in quarters, but in something that is meaningful. Lots of clubs show some good stuff; only a win actually shows an ability to play better than another team. Lots of players show moments of improvements; only 'wins' actually captures sustained, meaningful improvement. Wins count - both in number and quality. I think that no one would argue that beating interstate clubs at the G is much of an achievement but at least Bailey could. Neeld can barely do that yet. So much patience is required for him and his whole coaching team...but we still need standards and my preferred one is if we won or not (and quality of performance). Everything else is so open to bias and delusion and I don't think it's worth much. And don't get me wrong about Neeld; my gut says he is the man. I like him, how is comes across, how he started to mature, how he is blunt with players. I'm all with Ron Burgundy on this one. BUT, I am all too aware that gut instinct is a very fallible measure. We need standards, we need reliable, meaningful standards and so far the talk about 'youngsters getting better' and 'gelling' and team cohesion sounds all too much like the "the vibe". Bailey fed us the same stuff. And for periods it appeared that it was there...or at least on the way. That fell apart and posters only recognised it when the quality of wins and losses was really examined. Beating bailey's win/loss in 2010 is arbitrary, but it is a damn sight cleaner and reliable than 'do the players gel'. And ultimately, if the wins are not going up, then we have legitimate reason to question the coach.

We circle the wagons and dig in. I still think if all they have is an off the cuff comment, its pretty lame When in the past, known clubs that set the std before our turn came. There are statements to the media openingly admitting their intentions or admitted to putting the cue in the rack. This is what has gets me pi$$ed off, more than the AFL doing an investigation on us. They cant use us as the scapegoat, without charging the other clubs that already have admitted to their sins. A level playing field for all. They give us a slap over the wrist,or they go all out on us and past culprits. I would be disappointed if any member of the MFC is hung out to dry over this. Hope commonsense prevails, we get a kick up the bum, and its put to bed.

The probe, into practices employed during Dean Bailey’s tenure as coach, is believed to have found adversely against former football manager Chris Connolly. The above comment by Damien Barrett if true, is the innocent finding against the club we have all waited for. Remember the section allegedly breached, required a Coach or Player to breach it. If the above is true then obviously there is no evidence of said breach or we would be seeing headlines about Bailey. It would appear that Bailey has denied tanking and he was in charge. If there is no evidence that we did, end of story. What are we then left with if Barrett is correct? An off the cuff comment by CC that Bailey has been reported as saying was a joke and that clearly he didn't act on. What then? The AFL charges CC for making an unfunny joke.

If the AFL was convinced by the evidence they have obtained, we would be charged and then given the opportunity to defend the charges. The fact that they are letting us make submissions on the evidence is a mechanism to avoid charges being laid. This still sounds to me that they lack the necessary evidence and that they are going through the motions for the public and the media.

Adverse finding - what does that tell you we have witnesses who say Connolly said this Connolly now has right of reply 1) I said that word for word and it was a joke, on other occassions I have also said these things did these witnesses also tell you this. and are you investigating all things I have said in jest, because they are clearly as ridiculous as these comments I said during this meeting your referring to. The only meaning they have is of a joke or comments made in jest 2) This has been taken totally out of context You can not write off an inquiry till you first interview the person who is alleged to have said the comments in question. FFS as others have said don't panic, the sky is falling. I would really hate to be under the pump or in the trenches with a lot on this forum. And some of you have the cheek to question our players not responding well to pressure

I understand. Ultimately every coach is judged by the W and L columns. It's the lot of a coach. But it's too simplistic. Look at these names: Ablett, Bartel, Ling, Scarlett, Stevie J, Milburn, Chapman, Kelly, Corey, Enright, Rooke, Hunt, Mooney, Wojo, Harley, King, Graham, Riccardi, Sanderson, Lord. That's a pretty handy group of 20 players. Sixteen are premiership players and belong to one of the great eras of all time. In 2003, Bomber Thompson's fourth year, they won only 7 games and finished 12 of 16. Their list consisted of those 20 players. As a side they were still developing. The following year they started to realise their talent and jumped to 15 wins and top 4. I think in Neeld's second year you still need to have some patience. Afterall, you were patient in Bailey's 4th. But like you, I want to see players develop and the team gel. They're non-negotiables. Also, you mentioned "VFL standard players", while Dawes isn't a world beater, I've seen enough to know that he can play. Ditto Byrnes, and Pedersen. If I asked whether you'd happily take Richards, Josh Kennedy, Mattner, or McGlynn I dare say I'd know the answer. The club has identified players it believes can play a valuable role for the team and that's a valuable proposition if you can get it right. Richmond did similarly well with Maric, Houli and Grigg, who have all at some stage been "VFL standard players". Simply saying "I want more wins than 2010 is that unrealistic ?" is not quite the analysis you used to give to the game. But then, you loved Bailey.

Response should be to suggest discussing penalties after the investigations into other clubs (notably Carlton & Richmond) are concluded. If the response is that no other clubs are to be investigated, then jam your penalties and of to court we go.

Hard to make out what your point is amongst all the commas. But Deegirl isn't a troll. She doesn't bother joining in the inane day to day musing of forum posters, but when she does post its spot on. Put the farm on it: our nuts are in a vice.

Right, not enough guns - that's the problem. If those kids all had guns then the shooter would have been cut down in a hail of fire - in fact he probably wouldn't have tried it on in the first place. Every US child should be issued with a gun at birth, preferably semi-automatic because they might not be too good at aiming. There'd be a whole new market for semi-automatics that can be managed by toddlers - think of the job creation!

You don't have to feel sorry for me Demonsterative. I'm excited about the future for the Casey Scorpions because of the excellent groundwork laid by Brett Lovett over the past twelve months after the departure of a number of "name" players at the end of 2011. Lovett gave many young local kids their chances at the club and they really kicked on during the season. I thought a few might even be lost to the rookie draft (e.g. Riseley, Smith, L. Tynan) but it looks like they'll be back next year along with a few other impressive youngsters who got their chances during the season. Having a coach with good development credentials is going to help these players as it would help those up and coming young Demons.