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I believe LJ's behaviour towards the MFC has set back the opportunities for other players like him. Rather than being seen as a hard working committed footballer, he is now seen as a troubled and ungrateful man. The words of Matthew Rendell do unfortunately ring loud and true in this case. Most understand his background and the difficulties contained therein, especially when related to forging an AFL career, that is what Rendell was getting at. He was not being racist, he was accepting that a difficult situation existed and that some clubs would choose not to take the risk, which of course is their right and probably obligation. LJ has not helped that. Leave aside the court case and the violence incident, for the moment and just concentrate on his departure. LJ never thanked the club for its time and effort, in trying to help him become an AFL footballer, in helping his community and in helping him with his court case, nor did he in any way seek to help us get some compensation via a trade. He walked out before the end of the season, a season in which he played one game and was probably paid his full and generous salary without a thought for us. If he is that keen in November to play with Port he would have been somewhat keen at least earlier and we could have done a deal to help him and us, without his football reputation being devalued, as it now has. His behaviour is excused by his mentor on here and if that is the way he was brought up, so be it, there are of course different cultures and we are each a product to some extent of our upbringing. I don't condemn him for that, if that is the expected behaviour of him by his people. That however does give AFL clubs the right to look at the individual and say, he is too difficult to take on. That is is the recruiter's right. If recruiters now see people like LJ as too hard, that is not their fault. They also should not be condemned for not taking on talent that comes with far greater difficulties than other possible recruits. The job is to create the best list they can and if things make that difficult they are not honour bound to go with the hardest task but rather one would assume the easiest. That is where I think LJ has let everyone down. On a personal note I invested a lot of my hope in LJ, went to his book launch, spoke to him when we met, read all the articles about him and was really proud of his attempts to become an AFL player and ours of supporting him. I am personally disappointed in the outcome, but that is life. What I find most disappointing is that his leaving and the manner of it makes me not care in the slightest about LJ the man and that really disappoints me. I suppose many would call that my fault and so be it, but I can't help but feel that LJ has helped foster that feeling. Wonder if he would acknowledge that in any way.

Well i was searching for a logical place to put this and decided id have to trawl back too far. Have yo changed your expectaions of finish position wins/loss etc SINCE the list has been overhauled ?? i recalled prior to the draft/trade that the Bookies and 'illustrious' scribes alike had us very much down the list in terms of where we would likely finish, odds to Premiership, odds to top 4 even odds to final 8 etc. I note that were still averaging around 250 :1 for the cup. well reality suggests it s a nonsense figure as i dont think we will win it either. But you know I wouldnt rule it out 100% . Stranger things have occurred.. I might put a throw-away 20 on it ...what the hell..lol Where some real value occurs I feel are the odds for the 8 ; you can get 10's... not to shabby there.. Im putting 100 there I can get 70's for the top 4...what the hell.. $20 love to know what exotics are avail for Brownlow too its interesting to see and try to understand why were considered such poor bets against the likes of Richmond, Nth , Adelaide, Essendon and the bloody Crows !! i would say there are ONLY 5 teams id auto rank above us. Haw, Syd, Geel, Freo Coll WCE. Im not scared of carlton. Much of the betting numbers would have been inspired before we revitalised our list . Im not saying this revival style restock is guaranteed success but it will succeed far beyond 2012. So where are you now ? Yes not a ball has been fought over in anger, not a goal kicked in competition but you would have to be Visually impaired Frederick not realise this will be a very different Melbourne taking to the field. what say you all ?

You misspelled "God".

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/151974/default.aspx He's next!

Neeld is making us a lot like Collingwood but with a lot better looking supporter base.

I'm mocked annually in March for my optimism and pitied in July-Sept. I agree this looks like a solid dawn... shhh

If we finish outside the 8 I would consider it a disappointing year

Anything less than finals is a failure. We've been down the bottom too long and if it takes nearly 10 years just to be competitive again then there is no hope for our next flag. Finals 2013!!!

Just to answer the question some are no doubt thinking ; 'how does he think we'll finish top 8 ' ? 1) Ive already mentioned I dont rate some of the sides ( that the bookies do ) automatically better finishers than us. 2) We have a reasonably favourable draw. If we can gel reasonably well and quickly we will present a very competitive team . i think 12 wins is quite possible, even 13. We'll account for GC and the Midgets ( both times ) I rate us better than the Pups. We have the Bummers measure. Anything could happen QB . Ought to win one of the Lions games. Port is a schamozzle. I think the Crows will come way back to earth in 13. Id prefer the Saints at the G but they're hard to quantify currently. Dont see exceptional thing for the Seaford boys in 13. Carlton will remember 13 for the year the Dees created a new hoodoo for them !! that puts us in the 8

I've probably said this before but when I first heard Mark Fine I was wondering why they let this yob on the radio but I persisted with him and find him a breath of fresh air, he has a touch of the common man about him and you've just gotta love it when he pays out on some dh on the final siren...so long as it's not you.

2 sh!t sandwiches for the Crows

When Caro is ready .

Got off very lightly in my book. I am not suprised. The AFL don't want 2 basket cases in South Australia.

No, but if you can foresee our next premiership that would be a big help.

Quite a telling image I reckon - in fact it almost confirms something I have long suspected about the actual role Anderson plays at AFL House. My suspicions are that he is nothing more than the office coffee boy and general gopher for AD - and this photo certainly does nothing but reinforce those suspicions. Yep - I am now more convinced than ever that Adrian is nothing but a trumped up EA masquerading as Management purely for PR purposes. By that I mean, you wouldn't trot the company Tea Lady out to front the media on a regular basis, would you? Of course, that would be plainly ridiculous - the "Operations Manager" however has much more clout don't you reckon? Voila! Problem solved. Poor Adrian is probably sick and tired of hearing the same old crap, day in, day out. "Adrian - the photo copier is jammed again" and "Adrian - where the f*** are the donuts?? You haven't forgotten again have you?" "Adrian - have you taken all the lunch orders yet?" Such a tedious life for one so talented I would have thought. Added to that he has to pretend to laugh on Brownlow night (every year too - it just never stops getting funny!!) when his boss hilariously reads out votes for Robin Nahas - how demeaning for the little fella. Occasionally though, AD will throw him a bone with a little more meat on it - "Adrian - ring the Adelaide Crows and demand they immediately sack Matt Rendell for being politically incorrect" is one such example. At the end of the day though, all we have here is an image of a bloke going about his normal daily duties - nothing too remarkable about that. At least, it would appear, on this occasion Adrian has remembered to bring the donuts. Good on him!!

Last pre-season I was over-optimistic. 2013 will be the most dreadfully painful season in our history . We will be a rabble and look like idiots on and off the field . Without Cale ,what hope have we got? Even GWS will thrash us with their evil genius coach and his dedicated young troops. Could be the end of us all .

I think we will be vastly improved, which is contadictory to a few of the pundits on here I normally see eye to eye with. Penny should drop with game plan, fitter and stronger young bodies, more players vying for selection, holes filled.

While I like the trading & drafting strategy for the 'type' of player we've gone after & brought in, it's still the case that a lot of them were either "fringe" players from other AFL clubs, or from "second division" (VFL, SAFL, WAFL) clubs. We're banking on improvement from: * these "fringe" players; * new draftees; * players who had an ordinary 2012; * players whose 2012 was wrecked by injury etc. What I really like is that we seem to be building a much better team structure than we've had for a long time. If it all comes together it'll be a pleasant surprise, but it may take a fair amount of the season to gel. Or not. The signs are good, but after so many false dawns, it's JUST hard to get too optimistic. Oh, and the first question said "discernible improvement immediately" - I think improvement will come, but not immediately.

It is just too hard to tell. The list is savagely different. Which i like. But will they gel? Can Mark Neeld MAKE them gel. I would talk to Craig Bellamy myself. There is no better man than Craig at turning outcasts into Premiership Players. Both clubs share the same building. Yes we could make the 8 if luck goes with us or we could be a mess. We have lost a lot of experience. Bartram even LJ for nothing. Moloney & Rivers walked which i think is a positive, but the players we drafted MUST fire. I will be looking for the little things. Players encouaging one another. High 5's or whatever. Last season there was none of that. Players were to insular not knowing their own future...now the picture is clearer (i hope)

I completely agree with Tredrea, I think the fact that they took him is a paradoxical indication that they're not ready for him. I simply can't fathom why a professional football club would want to take him on at this point in his life. It's like they listened to all their forum footy experts who said he was worth a punt and took it from there. I think it's irresponsible recruiting myself, but whatever floats their boat.

Personally i don't think Gys is good enough, nowhere near exceptionally talented. We shall see. If he does become a serviceable player, which with his limitations is all that I can see him becoming I will not think that getting rid of him was a bad decision. What are Gysbert's exceptional talents Stuie? Chucking a tanty, who said Neeld was the one who had the tanty?

Well they are nowhere near big enough for a Phil Scully snack!

Absolutely. He also played 57 games. In no way was Martin a "bungled" pick when you consider where he was taken.

Good stuff Pilgrim.....now that you have infiltrated his inner circle of friends, find out as much as you can about him, his attitude to training, his desire and enthusiasm for this year, his aspirations etc. etc.. And report back to the fold at 0100 hours.

It seems realistic to expect that Viney, and our bigger bodied recruits, could have a fairly instant impact. After all, we clearly drafted them for that, where a lot of other clubs will be comfortable for their picks to make little or no impact next year. I think the article is pretty spot on, actually, although I still think we are all expecting too much from Viney.

They should lose their first pick for another couple of years - however long the Tippett contract was for. It is a touch of the syndrome, but that doesn't mean it won't happen... We need to hire a PR team pronto - the media has moved along with Wilson to a place that is just not right - namely that we are guilty, with the only real question being that other teams are just guilty and we shouldn't be singled out. That is not a position of strength and we should be working to get our message across; we simply did what losing teams do, and we didn't conspire to be awful - we were awful.

One think I like to do is our best 22 followed by the rest team, this highlights the depth or lack there of plus any major holes in our list The Firsts Nicho Frawley Garland Watts McDonald Strauss Trengove Sylvia Viney Howe Pedreson Blease Byrnes Clark Dawes Jamar Jones Grimes McKenzie, Toumpas, Tapscott, Dunn The seconds Jetta Sellar Davies MacDonald Gillies Terlich Evans Magner Bail Rodan Fitzpatrick Hogan Davey Gawn Barry Spencer Couch Jones Kent Taggart Tynan

Bit of personal bias here, but the Herald Sun's recent announcement that Mark Robinson has been appointed as their Chief Football scribe puts The Age's efforts into perspective. Basically, Robinson's work makes Caroline look like a three time winner of the Nobel prize for literature. (Keep in mind that the Nobel prize is often awarded for works of fiction). Edit: Added last line

Yes Clint Wilson can take pride in the knowledge that she makes up the story before the opposition. I's all about filling column space and the truth, facts and ethics can take a back seat. Compare Wilson's injective to that of Emma Quayle's excellent piece on the crows. Where Carowhine would resort to unsupported accusation and innuendo Qualye simply reported established facts and maintained on objective standpoint throughout her article's, never being arrogant enough to sit in judgement. Kero must be looking over her shoulder at young Emma with considerable anxiety.

Chances are that one or two of the blokes that we have let go will succeed at another club. That won't mean that we will have made a mistake. The list needs to be looked at as an entity on it's own and not as a group of indivduals.

I have this feeling that perhaps Liam's decision to walk away might have resulted not only from his personal situation but also as a consequence of discussions that might have taken place as to what the club required of him if he were to remain on the list. This is just a hunch but, whatever the case, I wish him well in the future with both his trial, his community and family life and his football career. Apart from the personal and community issues that continue to cause so much grief, I find it sad that his mission of being a role model for indigenous youngsters coming out of desert communities had been so severely compromised. Hopefully, he can find a way to resurrect that part of his life as well as bring some harmony back to Yuendumu and the lives of its people. The football should come second to that.

Misson*

I don't think they'll be letting in machete's pinned to jackets, if that's what you mean...

We looked after him and cared for him because it was the right thing to do. Strong cultures and clubs are built on organisations that are tight knit and look after one another. The fabric we wove to support Liam will, hopefully, hold us in good stead for the future amongst the players that are there now and will come into the future. We didn't look after him in the hope of getting compensation for him should he walk. We did it because it was the right thing to do. Good on us. We can hold our heads up proudly and say that we did the utmost to help a member of our community and a member of our club. His situation away from, and inside of (to a much, much lesser extent), football has indeed been very sad and I wish him all the best in his career and, more importantly, his life.

You mention Hannabal, where the hell is he these days. I used to enjoy reading his posts but I can't even find him on the members list.

While I haven't been to a training session as of yet, I can say that his VFL form late in the season after he was properly diagnosed with his condition was very good. He's getting better at holding his contested marks, so he's becoming stronger physically, but he's still got his pace also and can burn his opponents off. I think the inclusion of all these forwards will be good for him as it should make him work even harder to get a game. I can see him competing with Pedersen for the 2013 season for the 3rd tall forward/2nd ruck role. Once 2014 comes along it will become even harder for him, but with injuries/suspensions/rotations I could still see him playing a lot of football for us and I still have high hopes for him. I certainly see him being our first call up into the team if any of Clark, Dawes or Pedersen were to miss a match next season.

As bad as Wilson has been of late, the Herald Sun's attempt to try and catch up on stories (tanking an drugs) has been even worse.

Hopefully the rockstar behavior - ie you haven't played AFL until .... (insert name of well respected attractive young female celebrity/stripper) has snorted charlie off your wood seems restricted to more successful clubs eg WCE(aka meth coke eckies) or the CFC (charliewoods) so we don't have to worry here . Thanks for the great AFL moral conscience of our time (Caro) to focus on this and forget tanking for a sec While AFL is a window on society, it is an exaggerated and worse case (potentially) of what goes on in the broader community. Thanks to increasing capitalism and celeb culture, more young lads have way to much cash and time to waste on dumb things that seem to be of interest to us ie illegal drugs. Maybe there are lessons to learn here but I have no interest as long as no one on our playing group is personally affected.

MarkFine also got into Wilson and other jouno's who were making up stories about Melbourne's 'tanking', there all saying how the book should be thrown at Melbourne but Finey and Patrick Smith said nothing should be done. They say if it's true then it's the AFL's fault for putting in those stupid rules

So you're assuming he will eventually be found guilty? That's below the belt. Poor reply.And I won't be liking my own post; unlike you.

Dane Swan could show you...

Translation: Caroline Wilson could not find one single person at Collingwood this week prepared to even talk to her

Translation: Caroline Wilson could not find one senior person at Collingwood this week prepared to defend Swan. Yet Nathan Buckley states, "Still waiting for your call Caroline..." on his twitter - as reported in numerous articles today. Yep she is a beauty, hey Fan!

Taht mya eb ko fro yuo, btu attnetoin ot dteila si ipmrotnta ot namy, jstu sa ti si ot getitgn a tmae ot pyal ta ist bste

He's been in the system for 4 years, the first 2 as a rookie. Due mainly to injuries, he has played just 16 games, the last occurring just as he was starting to show some real form and consistency. Since his return this year he has been steadily improving and it would seem by all reports that he is really taking to the Neeld training regime and starting to show results. I believe we should persevere with him.

This is my take on it. I couldn't care less about him.

Can I just say.. I dont care... not anymore..its over.. Couldnt give a flying fig about him. Its beyond yesterday now. I m interested in MELBOURNE. The only passing interest i have in Port is by how much we toast them come 2013. And we WILL burn them !! They will be the 'example' . The NAB will be a little experimental and informative but Round one will be when we unleash HELL ( ver 2.0.13 ) Whether Liams playing or not I really dont care. Doubt it anyway .

Why is there even a thread on this? How about we worry about people that are actually playing for the MFC

Garlett ,purely because he can suck back cans and smokes with Neeldy after training whilst we build our culture thingo.

I'm appalled at their behaviour.When we cheat ,at least we do it within the rules .