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How did a 30-second aside in a lengthy match committee meeting morph into a specific meeting held by the Melbourne Football Club in 2009 supposedly as a call-to-arms to its football department to lose matches? Imagination? Read first the stories written and published in the Age in a whirlwind five day spree in which its chief football writer, aided by underlings who produced nothing much to add to the subject, carried out her relentless daily attack on the Melbourne Football Club and some of its senior officials with nothing much to go on but a ½ minute grab of lighthearted comment at a meeting in a place ominously referred to as "the vault":- Tanking affair darkens for Dees Senior Demons drove tanking Secrets from the vault Why the Dees alone are facing probe Three losses that raised eyebrows A timeline on tanking What they said about tanking 'We tried to stop tanking' Jobs on line: Dees warned Sheedy saw Dees' problems coming Demons: shock & awful and finally ... a small semblance of sanity Dark artists drop the ball And this is how the rival Herald Sun dealt with revelations by former Demon coach Dean Bailey that the events that were supposed to have taken place in "the vault" had been blown out of all proportion - Dean Bailey tells the AFL he didn't order players to lose A lousy 30 second grab became the arrogance at the heart of the innuendo! Dripping through The Shrew's ministrations are attacks on two Melbourne people who are the targets of her malice. "Melbourne will be harshly punished. Cameron Schwab and Chris Connolly will be finished at the club." Connolly's sin appears to be that he cracked a few funnies but the case against Schwab seems to devolve down to innuendo and the fact that, instead of doing somersaults and handstands after Melbourne's round 15 win over Port Adelaide, he appeared "grim-faced". The problem is that said game was one of the most shyzen exhibitions of football in the history of the game. In fact, IMO it was so bad that anyone who didn't walk away from the game with a grim face needed to be institutionalised. WHAT NOW? This is your opportunity to help us build "The Wilson File" to help us uncover the reasons for this arrogant, obsessive hatred on the part of one journalist towards the Melbourne Football Club and those who are working hard to make their club a success once more. We want solid evidence here - articles with links and quotes from appearances on radio and television. Help us get to the bottom of the arrogance at the heart of the innuendo.

• After the Jordan McMahon game in July, 2009 Wilson appeared on Footy Calcified and was particularly aggressive towards Dean Bailey and the Melbourne Football Club over what transpired during the game which Richmond won after McMahon's 50 metre kick after the siren. It must have irked her to write this piece on 5 August, 2009: AFL boss backs Dees after loss • Remember that final round game of 2009 against St. Kilda that Melbourne was supposed to have tanked? The odds for that game were: Melbourne to win $11.00 St. Kilda to win $1.02 And some people are surprised that Melbourne failed to win the game?

Because my hairstyle is 'slighty different' I have had the opportunity for many chats with Fitzty, starting at the AGM where Bailey had made him get rid of his 'dreads', this started our conversations. He is not lacking in confidence and knows he can play, he has just gone from one setback to another, he has his diabetes day mapped out, he knows exactly what volume of training he can do now.....he was on crutches at the B&F and he said the clean out was the final bit and he was looking fwd to finally getting a full preseason in, bulking up even more and showing he can play....I assume burning off Pederson was the start.... Believe me if he can get a full preseason in, we will be watching him play regularly.....if you have watched him at Casey, if he is fit and firing he is unplayable running around in the 50 with his height and speed............it is blokes like Fitzy, Tynan, Taggert, Viney etc who have got me excited about next season......with the bonus of a fwd line boasting Clark and Dawes....what's not to like

I heard from a lawyer friend of mine that the gutters of melbourne are in discussion on the possibility of starting a class action against Caroline Wilson for bringing their good name into disrepute. They point out that they provide a valuable contribution to melbourne society and they have had enough of their good name being dragged down to such depths

I daresay you have never run a case against someone in court. It is draining, expensive, time consuming and incredibly emotional and difficult. And we have no case. I repeat again - a company cannot sue for defamation any more. The law was changed about 6 years ago. Connolly possibly could but he shouldn't touch it with a barge pole. As for Schwab he was outed as a party to salary cap cheating under Gutnick so arguably would be pretty difficult to defame him over this as his reputation is already somewhat 'sullied'. The court of public opinion will side with Caro because most people think we tanked. There is nothing to be gained. Forget it and move on. And quickly. The best revenge is to win games. Make them fear playing us. It has never happened in my lifetime and I would love to follow a team where that was the case. Our meagre energies are much better spent doing that.

That's the whole point isn't it; most of those who criticise him really don't know why, they just go along with, and become part of,the crowd. I don't know how good a job Schwab has done but the Board seem happy with him and if we are happy with the Board, we should accept their judgement. I think a lot of people have been sucked in to the Wilson/Schwab brawl and only want him gone because she's said he's no good. Well I reckon she's no good, so why should I side with her?

Caro has always made stuff up. She often uses a throw away line in an article with no substance triying to pass it as fact. I have had sport for years reading her articles and identifying the line. Occurs almost without exception. She's a shocking 'journalist'. On her MFC rants, she said something in an article years ago referring to Robert Flower and the unhappy circumstances in which he left the club, or similar. I had to show it to my non MFC supporting wife to say I have lived and breathed the MFC and never heard about any such thing. But she said it in the article. Just made it up. Has been doing it for an awfully long time. Even on Footy Classified she is often shown to have made things up, but just sits there and says 'well, that's what I believe happened.' I actually thinks she's nuts.

It's a good and relevant thread. I had this exact conversation with my Brother as we watched training on Monday. His view was that we'd be stuffed, but to the contrary I thought we'd be fine. Of course it would be far from ideal, but I reckon our list is in better shape than many. We've turned over a third of our list, but the core is good and some of the improvements will hold us in good stead. Forwards - Clark, Dawes, Hogan, and Pedersen is a very sound core of talls. Add rotations with Howe, Sylvia, Tynan and the basis is set up for 5 years at least. We'll add young crumbers. Defence - Frawley, McDonald, Watts, and Garland is also a solid group of plus 190cm defenders. Add Davis (who I like although I know many don't), Nicholson, Dunn and Strauss and I also reckon it's young with quality. Rucks - Jamar, Gawn, Spencer with help from Clark and it's OK. Much depends on Gawn and I we need to look to add to it, but it's sound. Mids - Jones, Grimes, Trengove, Blease, Viney, Pick 4, McKenzie, Bail, Evans, Taggert, Barry, plus rotations with Howe and Sylvia. It's no secret that we need to develop 4-5 'A' grade mids in a hurry. We're desperate for Trengove to become the player we thought he would, Blease to build his engine and provide some outside run, Viney and pick 4 to be quality, Grimes to continue his midfield journey and to unearth an unexpected top-liner, which may be a Taggert or Evans, etc. As we've discussed ad nauseum our midfield is the issue, but theoretically it should be the easiest part of the ground to improve. A couple of genuine gun mids make it easier for those around them to step up. Obviously not all of the players I've mentioned will make it, but I'm convinced the core will be solid and we have a sound group of "interchangeables". A lot of clubs would be very envious of our quality key position players all over the ground. I too want to point out that I'm becoming increasingly confident that we'll keep our picks, as the evidence against us seems flimsy and more so a groundswell of group think that's taken off in the football industry, but if we can delay any possible sanction past this draft then I'll be quietly confident in our ability to weather the storm. Finally, we're a completely different proposition to Carlton when they were sanctioned. At the end of 2002 when they were penalised their list was old. They had a few premiership players left from 1995, but they'd had it and there was a heap of crud. We're in a far better position. There's really no correlation. If you're not convinced have a look at their list at the end of 2002: http://finalsiren.com/Fixture.asp?SeasonID=2002&TeamID=14

I get it. It's a witch hunt but this time, we're dealing with a real witch. Brilliant!

I heard Hankook stopped supplying Brock's tyres and he couldn't afford to do burn outs any more. Just sayin....

Because we're being investigated for tanking, and tank tops are a singlet type top but called tank tops, so we will wear tank tops. I get it, it's so funny, just one of those rare gems that will forever make me laugh. TANK tops! *slaps knee*

Vince Sorrenti must have been hosting

"Up to Dees on Scully: Demetriou" http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/up-to-dees-on-scully-demetriou-20110615-1g3xj.html "The man for the job" http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-man-for-the-job-20110506-1ec8q.html "Stynes steps in" http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/stynes-steps-in-20110504-1e8hm.html "Dees magic flickers" http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dees-magic-flickers-20110422-1driv.html "Stynes steps in to ease tension" http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/stynes-steps-in-to-ease-tension-20110420-1dox8.html "$140,000 loan for Schwab" http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/140000-loan-for-schwab-20110328-1cdgq.html "Sting in the tail for Casey" http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/sting-in-the-tail-for-casey-20110309-1bo05.html

"Green on the outer" http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/green-on-the-outer-20110822-1j6xy.html "Schwab points finger at Bailey" http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/schwab-points-finger-at-bailey-20110804-1idmr.html "Dees divided: Lyon called in" http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dees-divided-lyon-called-in-20110802-1ia0g.html "How demons killed the coach they loved, but saved a CEO" http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/how-demons-killed-the-coach-they-loved-but-saved-a-ceo-20110801-1i8az.html "Schwab safe after demon backflip" http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/schwab-safe-after-demon-backflip-20110801-1i77o.html "Player revolt preceded humiliation" http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/player-revolt-preceded-humiliation-20110731-1i6r1.html "Demons sack Bailey" http://www.theage.com.au/afl/melbourne-demons/demons-sack-bailey-20110731-1i6hh.html "Scully worth an Ablett: AFL" http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/scully-worth-an-ablett-afl-20110712-1hc91.html

"Dees hold forum to appease fans" (MFC supporter info nights) http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dees-hold-forums-to-appease-fans-20120530-1zjgj.html "De-cision on the run" (MFC "rushing" to appoint what Caro intimates is clearly not-the-best-available, in Neeld) http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/deecision-on-the-run-20120521-1z1di.html "Date with disaster" (Caro re-living 186 with gusto) http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/date-with-disaster-20120504-1y4ky.html "Battle of science rages as dees 'gap' bid revealed" (Neeld wants to enforce gap year on 1st year players) http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/battle-of-science-rages-on-as-dees-gap-bid-revealed-20120313-1uyix.html "Demons want Schwab to stay" http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/demons-want-schwab-to-stay-20120417-1x5m0.html "Facing up to Demon days" (Neeld's early days as coach) http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/facing-up-to-demon-days-20120406-1wh2c.html "Dark days turn darker for bedevilled demons" (Just basically a recap on all the crap stuff happening to MFC) http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dark-days-turn-darker-for-bedevilled-demons-20120405-1wfml.html "Grand old stoush: Demons take on AFL" (Davey-Mifsud saga: Mifsud delays meeting) http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/grand-old-stoush-demons-take-on-afl-20120404-1wd8f.html "Davey at centre of storm" (Davey emerges as potential source of racist allegations against Neeld) http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/davey-at-centre-of-storm-20120403-1waw6.html "McGuire's Jurrah scoop angers demons" http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/mcguires-jurrah-scoop-angers-demons-20120312-1uwi5.html "Chinese whispers may land demon sponsor" (Schwab's china trip) http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/chinese-whispers-may-land-demons-sponsor-20111207-1oj6c.html

Yeah I reckon you're right, we deserve what we get an if we win a flag in the next 5 years i think we should hand that back too and maybe to completely clear our conscience we should raffle jack Viney off and the winner gets him and we can donate the proceeds of the raffle to St Vinnies.

Well i'm watching US election coverage, for people doesn't know Obama re-elected.

This thread is for posters with MFCSS Y'all should HTFU and rally around the flag We'll face any obstacles if and when they come up.

I understand what you're saying and I doubt there'll be any suing, but that question is for the individual. It's not up to the club, or anyone else, to tell them what to do in this regard. It's a very personal matter.

If there is no case to answer to from the AFL do we really want to give this more oxygen by either CS or CC sueing the Age/CW. All that will succeed in doing is keeping it in the headlines. Let this story line the bottom of the canary cage as it rightly deserves.

Hi OD, I'm obviously not CS but despite any mistakes he has made in the past, he shouldn't get blamed for indiscrections that were the fault of others. I prefer to deal in facts where possible.

I think we need to put all our attention onto winning our next flag. As soon as is possible.

^uses 'B' key as space bar.

and then they went to the snow and stuff hahaha

yeah and Judd played 134 for West Coast - neither he or Brad Miller have the slightest thing to with Stiller

It's kind of funny how to start with there was this top secret meeting called The Vault that was the result of months of planning, where Connolly told everyone they faced the sack if they didn't throw matches, and as the actual facts come to light, it was a regulation footy meeting in a building nicknamed The Vault, where Connolly made a wise crack in a 30 second aside. I wish I got paid to make up crap and have it published like Wilson and co.

Losing picks 18 and 36 wouldn't be so bad.

What does all this tell us about Caro? Allow me to answer my own question - she both has one and is one.

I did that today. Here are my results. 727 couldn't give a fats rats clacker. 125 said we tanked but we shouldn't get punished because every body was doing it and the rules of the AFL tacitly encouraged it, 54 asked me for a couple of bucks to buy a train ticket to get home. 22 said not to worry about any AFL sanctions because the Mayan calendar predicts that the world will end on December the 21st and the draft sanctions won't hurt us. 51 said they couldn't believe it wasn't butter. 3 invited me to partake in a personality test. 17 said they thought Caroline Wilson was fantastic in "No Country for old Men". And finally one said that he was devastated that Melbourne delisted Juice Newton and therefore we must be punished. Case Closed. P.s The last person interviewed may or may not have been Juice Newton.

Maybe we might start playing for wins next season instead of playing for draft picks.

Freo will be all over Franklin like a fat kid and cake.

Can you tell me then....Who are you going to replace them with????.........CS has been in the footy game for a long time and has experience in the administration of a footy club.....Has he made mistakes???? YesHas his admin taken the club from a $5 mil debt......Yes Has the footy club now got amenities equal with the competion......Yes Is the club running a a profit.........Yes (A small one but a profit none the less) Was he recommend by the AFL........Yes Is he instrumental in this lattest sh!t fight.......Unknown Can you please put a name to our next CEO who knows the football landscape better and has steered the ship better than CS through the past year of hell????

Still waiting to read her article on Richmond.

I'd like to agree, but there is one additional matter. When Demetriou was commenting in 2009 he (presumably) was not aware of the meeting which it is now being alleged was held with the intention of planning to lose. While everything else he said are legitimate arguments his comments might have been different if he was aware of the alleged meeting (if it indeed happened the way it has been reported). So, he still has wriggle room if he needs it. My guess is that the AFL would like to find a solution without ever having to admit that 'tanking' occurred - whether they now believe it did or it did not. They should be using an external strategy firm to advise them (because an outside view is less likely to bury its head in the sand and shouldn't be afraid to provide both palatable and unpalatable suggestions for consideration). But I suspect they won't do that. And they should re-frame the question away from whether tanking occurred in the past and should instead talk about reforming the draft process to get rid of any incentive which might still exist not to perform. And I would like to see (but doubt it will happen) some stricter obligations on clubs to report their intentions during a season (ie, advising if they intend to trial players in alternative roles, put players in for season ending surgery, resting players because of a rotations policy rather than pretending that they are suffering from general soreness, etc).

Thank god there is someone on here that understands the real world. Thanks jnr You are 100% correct winning games is the only way forward for the MFC.

Tank tops? Coming soon in a range of colours: black and yellow, black and white, brown and gold and the always popular navy blue (with a hint of white).

It's just so lucky we have Mark Neeld. I don't believe we should lose draft picks - I haven't yet seen ANY evidence that would justify such a sanction. That said, because of the way Mark Neeld has restructured/tweeked our list this draft period means we are in a reasonable position to weather any storm arising from losing picks in 2014. But I would be bloody infuriated if we were to lose picks simply because of a scurrilous media hate-campaign against certain people in the club. I would go absolutely feral.

IMO a thread devoted to (conceding and) speculating penalties is sad. Not every post but FFS

Most recruiters will tell you the early ones are the easy ones, it's the later ones that require more work. Typical MFC, making the simple difficult since 1965. It hasn't all been bad, but yes 2007 would look a whole lot worse without Grimes coming through. A lot of angst about Lucas Cook being wasted at 12, but I think we're breaking even with Howe at 33 and McDonald at 53. If Davis ends up being a player, then I'd rate the 2010 draft a win, even if we (like every other club) did pass on Darling.

Just wanted to thank those of you who make the effort to go and keep everyone informed. I appreciate it.

There's no need to pursue CW in the courts, if the club emerges without punishment after the investigation is done. It would be a terrible look for the club and the prospect of success probably wouldn't be that high. She could easily put a case forward that she was just doing her job and there are enough weasel words in her articles to cover herself. Once the matter is settled, the club should just draw a line under the whole sordid affair, consign it to the dustbin of history and get on with preparing for 2013 and beyond.

I wouldn't be spending time and money on a defamation action against Wilson. Our major focus after this "tanking" issue plays itself out should be the team we put on the field and getting it to a point where it can compete with the better clubs and aim to play finals football again as soon as possible. Suing Wilson would be a distraction our club doesn't need.

I have had personal run-ins with Cameron in the past and have spoken of him in a negative way on the forum but I do believe he's made some good decisions since the fall-out of the famous Geelong game. Improved football department personnel, continued revival of football department funding, a stronger bottom-line and continued ability to connect with strong sponsors. My only query would be his old fashion management style - I do hope he shows some innovation moving forward.

well if we were to get through this years draft which is seeming more likely now and we have picks stripped from us in next seasons draft it probably won't have as bigger impact as some predict it will on us. This is because we have already locked away Hogan who was expected to be a top 5 pick in next years draft, so even if they were to, lets say, strip us of our first 2 picks in next seasons draft, it won't be as if we're being left empty handed as we will have a higly talented KPF who, theoretically will be a 10-12 year power forward for the club.

A unfortunate topic at present allowing the disillusioned supporters a chance to cause a greater rift within the club for their personal benefit. In times of war a united front is required. All Demon fans should be banding together against outside forces. If we win the battle there will be plenty of time later to sort out internal bickering.

Just wondering if anyone who follows the TAC cup or saw any of the vic country games give any insight into Wines. They rate him highly in relation to clearances and tackles but just wondering how his speed and kicking efficiency was? We've already gotten rid of a player ie Brent Moloney who was considered a clearance specialist and a hard nut but he was too slow and was unable to keep up with the speed of the game. Not sure if we need to bring in another player too similar to him? He sounds like he has good endurance with a high beep test but we really need to bring in someone who can work hard both ways, spread well from the clearances and possess some speed too.

The only smokey for me would be Stringer, it's only injury that has held him back. If the legs ok then he offers a lot, probably the pick of this draft. Wines looks a safe bet but if he was not available...

The most important reason, and the one that you are missing, is that Brock had been tried and was unable to play any position other than central midfield. And he just wasn't effective enough. Barely scraping into our best 22 by the end of the season. With us aiming for an influx of serious midfield talent, his opportunities were seriously limited. I'm surprised some don't remember this.

People ask where will the improvement come from, if this is anything to gage for the rest of the pre-season campaign then it is small matters like this which will see us improve. Good to hear Sammy already ahead of where he was this time last year. Big thanks to everyone for keeping us outside of Victoria up to date!

There was a left footer there that I didn't recognise, so it looks like we've invited one person down to train - and no it wasn't Brynes who ran a few laps. Blease ran with Bail in the 150m sprints and was only getting dropped in the last few and even then by only 1.5 metres. He has already significantly improved his engine from last preseason.