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Viney may be rated by some recruiters between 5-8 in the draft but there are other intangibles that add to his value due to the exposure we have had to him. He has had time in our system already. We know what we are getting with Viney and how he will adapt to the rigours of an AFL pre season (which he completed in most part). We have seen him play against men. We know he will be true to the jumper and not a turncoat like others may be. I watched Whitfields and Vineys pressers yesterday and in one I saw a young boy and the other I saw a warrior. I would put my money on Viney having the better career not necessarily out of talent but out of want. Viney is a sure thing 150-200 gamer at worst. He is a culture changing once in a generation mid at best. Whitfield is a nice player unproven against men. I hope we get the added value of him in the second round but if required we would be mad to not take him at 3.

A top 5 pick should be a star of the game. Would anyone here give up Pavlich or Franklin, or Cotchin for Wellingham and Dawes? If they want a package, they can take Pick 13 and Martin with their later picks coming our way. I like the idea of both but I won't overpay for B graders.

bahaha i would nearly die out of disgust if that happened

Pick 3 is very high price to pay, we could get a $cully or Morton if we let Viney go.

I'm happy if we take him at 3 - we'll be making a positive statement about culture and we won't be encumbered with trade favours to GWS and GC. That said I'd prefer we can take him in the 2nd round with some win-win deals. Not taking him is not an option for me.

He has a long term contract and can't leave without us releasing him. The answer would either be no or otherwise, the cost to St. Kilda would be exorbitant and beyond their reach. Anyway, it sounds like another rumour totally without foundation so unless something emerges that suggests otherwise this thread is closed.

Not the way the MFC use them

I'll say it again pick 13 and Martin for Dawes and Wellingham!! Do the deal??

#14 and #~45 for Wellingham and Dawes would be plenty. #4 would be madness. We need to keep our early picks.

If any club didn't make the public declaration, "we'll be exploring all options", there'd be something wrong. GWS won't bid.

Apart from discussion on trade week radio that Morton should look elsewhere by Barrett, it's been all hot air. People should take the time to realise the comments they have made on Cale in this thread. A player that is contracted at our club.

I hope you've got that wrong because if it's right it's another stuffed up Draft by Melbourne, absolute highway robbery they simply aren't worth it.

That's what Collingwood wants. Melbourne are surely not silly enough to even contemplate it. If they do that's just about it for me.

You're being a bit selective there, only Franklin was pick 5, and in any case, all are about the best picks of their respective years. You could have easily picked out Cale Morton, Mitch Thorp or Richard Tambling, all of whom went around pick 5 as well.

I'd be keen to get Dawes. He's no superstar, but he does have some attributes that are very attractive to the club: - Really hard worker - Leader - Mature, but young (great age) - Fills an important role that we can't currently fill (power forward to complement Clark) - Great competitor If we are looking to get free agents in (like Byrnes) to set an example and create a high performance culture, then Dawes will be perfect for that- plus he has the ablity to play a long term role in the side. As long as we don't expect him to be Mitch Clark, then he'd be a very good acquisition.

Forget Wellingham, get Dawes!

Sydney won because of the attitude and effort standards they set. They train to high standards, play to high standards, they have non negotiables set by the LG, they pride themselves (the playing group) on being there for each other, being the best they can, and it is displayed like that on the field. This is their culture - it never guarantees a win, but it puts them in the best position to perform well week in week out. Other teams have their own standards and as good cultures like the Hawks and Pies. But when it comes down to it, week in week out, the level of consistency of being in the game and competitive and winning is superior to nearly all other clubs. And it is admired. They have a terrific level of work ethic for each other, it's what separates the recognition of those who have it in spades and those who are inferior in standards. Fans and commentators recognise it because it exists, it's out there on display. They become the most skillful, fittest, role playing coached team, because of the standards set by the FD and playing group (LG) that make it a terrific environment to thrive and learn in. That in a nutshell is it. There are many player examples that have moved to Sydney and thrived, improved their game significantly in doing their specific role for the team, once given the chance. It's about high performance, professionalism, doing the right things often and avoiding situations that can bring performance/ players down. And developing a winning mentality and sustaining success over a long period. Do you disagree?

I wouldn't .....Id take Dawes a proven "Grunt target Forward" over a spare parts ruck, a better defender and a hopeless forward Martin anyday! If IF that is the possible scenario! Don't let Dawes bad season fool you, he opens up play, can take a pack mark, is a target and would take a serious defender away from Clark. Get at all costs!

If GC Bid on Viney it could go like this #3 Viney, #4 Toumpas/Wines, #13 Kennedy/Garlett/Stringer #26 Dawes = 1 Gorilla + 3 mids If GC dont bid it could go like this #3Toumpas/Wines, #4 Hogan, #13Kennedy/Garlett/Stringer #26 Viney = 1 Gorilla + 3 mids I really like this play by the MFC to mitigate the cost of drafting Viney at #3 note: fk Caddy, kid already looks like he had a bad attitude and isn't worth putting up pick #13 for

At least you understand that culture isn't simply a buzz word, but a set of standards and behaviors that are consistently and vigorously endorsed and protected. Satyricon seems to think that you just go out and play and give your all. If only it was so simple. When you have 40 players on a list and ages that can vary by up to 15 years (or more) you need a stringent set of standards and behaviours that are driven by your leadership group. And much thought goes into those values and behaviours. Where you get it wrong - continuously, is that you don't understand that the culture of a club is determined by your players and in particular your leadership group. I've argued this point with you so often I know it falls on deaf ears, but even on Monday night's final episode of AFL 360 Bomber Thompson and Eade were both asked who set the culture at a club, i.e. was it the coaches, or the players, and in unison they answered that it was definitely the players. I know you'll wax on that it comes from the President all the way down to the receptionist and boot studder. But you're wrong. It's the players and in particular the leadership group.

We are a strange lot. I was going to expand on that but I think it covers it.

If we have to take viney at 3, just take him at 3. Take Wines at 4 as well, good friends from school and both tough on ballers. With the way i see it if we pick them both, it should make the transition easier... having said that, if viney does slip, it's a win anyway

No wonder joining a club with a winning culture is an important part of the decision for a front-runner like Wellingham. Would be absolutely invisible in a poor side IMO.

I think that would signal the end for MFC imo, continuing to stuff it up when given golden opportunities. Pick 4 for those two players is so far overs, neither of them are A graders, and Dawes may even be a C grader as present, Wellingham mid B grader.......

+ 1...Will seriously lose my mind if they give up pick 4...pick 13 and a player, if that's Martin or Petterd etc so be it.

That would be worst case scenario to me. But I'd prefer not. I reckon Wellingham is worth a pick in the 20's and Dawes a pick in the 30's. We don't need to be desperate for other club's B graders.

Not a chance in hell. Read that article the other day? Not the words of a man who is keen to leave.

Reported that Dawes is on big coin. We would be one of the few (with saints I guess) to have the cap space to take over the contract at least for the first year, with balance of 4? years negotiated Good grief.....what is it Rhino would say.........LOL LOL....Morton was a pick 4........

Effectively we have here Tom Scully for Wellingham, Dawes and pick 13. When I look at it that way it's not too bad...

A lot of people forget Dawes had to Ruck a lot during last season. It quite possible that his forward work was down because he was just puffed out!

I really hope the karma bus smashes Gold Coast in the face at some point in the future.

Ive seen enough to suggest that at no 3 he is overs BUT he is certainly top 10. Therefore to pay slightly overs for him would not faze me one little bit. He is grunt personified a more polished version of Chunky Jones and has massive upside Just think of him as a at this stage a developing combo of Mc Veigh, Thompson, and Swan and you might get the idea of what we have the opportunity of securing this type which we desperately need! A must in my book!

I dont mind th eidea/concept of a Byrnnes type. I think too many people are shooting for the moon. Currently we're just the other side of crap. We arent going to turn into a take-on-all -killer type for a few seasons yet. Theres a path to this and it will be paved with many a 2-3 year stint of deccent capable journeymen types. They will fill a role, then move on...and the next comes in or is developed from within etc. This cat could do a role quite well. Certainly combine well with a few others to fire up the middle and get some good decisions happening out of the midfield. He's not stellar....but hes pretty bloody good on his day

He didn't come top 15 in the B&F. Yes, he missed 7 games, but if he was that good he wouldn't have been dropped to Casey and he wouldn't be playing in the back-line. Next year he plays as a 22 year old, he was drafted at pick 1 as a key forward, he's 196cms, we're in desperate need for a key forward to help Clark, yet Watts will be manning up midgets on a half-back flank. Yet you seem happy with his "output" ? Some of you so want Watts to be a success it clouds your judgment. He was a terrible choice at pick one and has a mile to go before he could even dream about being able to play in the red hot cauldron of a final. The new combative training the club is implementing for this preseason can't come quickly enough for Watts.

Ahh fair enough yeah I just wasn't sure. All in all if we do not draft Viney we are incredibly stupid. Even if he's not top 3 material now who's to say he wouldn't be in a few years. I mean look what we did with Morton he was a top 4 pick and he has done nothing at all. So many upsides to drafting Viney. We know he can play against men, he is a strongly built boy and can everyone remember how happy we were when he signed for us last year. Supporters will be happy, the football club will benefit and Jack himself will be happier. It's a no brainer for mine just playing mind games with GC

Don't know why we are so annoyed at what a player manager says - I instinctively dislike everything they say. I mean - Lynch, Pickering, Nixon - these people would be loan sharks in another life. Interested to see what happens when he meets with Neeld and Craig, sees AAMI Park and we shatter some misconceptions that thrive out in Eddiewood.

There's no doubt that our culture is evolving and right now we can't argue from a position of strength, but for a manager to so flagrantly and publicly disrespect our club like that makes me livid. And if I was Harrington, et al, I'd be putting Da Costa's name firmly in my memory bank for a future occasion.

"Melbourne has never been a discussion point, Sharrod hasn’t even got in front of Melbourne," Da Costa said. "Winning culture's got to be a big part of it as well." That line about winning culture cuts deep. As just posted, last year we won 8 games, got a brand new coaching staff etc. so we were able to sell hope and potential. This time around, we are on the bottom, no light in sight, and could not sell anyone on anything other than money. Noone would want to come to Melbourne, and rightly so. Right now we are a crap football club with no light in sight. Our enemies grow stronger, and we still sit at the bottom of the ladder without improving. We will not get anyone this Free Agency/trade period. Here's hoping we get lucky in the draft and get some superstars, because we're [censored] otherwise.

Are we the only supporter base who want delisted players back after they have been delisted? FCS i want to play finals in late september. Move Forward.…

This post says more a out the type of person you are than it does Cale. Hero.

Won't be worth anything either. We could fill up the team with NQRs who "won't cost us anything".

Watched Cale closely this year and he was clearly making an effort to up his contested football, but it was to no avail. He is almost irreversibly soft, and as much as he might try to get involved and get under a few packs, which he did try to do, it will take a better club than the MFC to turn him around. This isn't really a knock on Cale the person, as most of us mere mortals aren't cut out for it, but it is a knock on Cale the AFL footballer, and unless you are sublimely skilled and lightning quick, you can't survive at this level with his 'softness'. Put out the press release that he is seeking a new home to make it look like we are still keen on him, and then cut the rope and take what we can get. Sorry if that seems harsh, but that is the way I see his career.

Doh meant GWS [censored] at us for letting them have scully...

I'd rather keep Cale, as I doubt we'd get a worthwhile return for him, but I think he's still a chance to make it. I think Neeld's style of coaching is exactly what he has always needed, but it'll be a while before we see any results. I know many won't agree. We'll see.

If we don't draft Viney I will microwave my membership card. The jury is still out on the MFC's new look, but one thing is certain, if we allow Viney to run around in a GC jumper, we not only loose out on potentially one of the hardest players to ever play the game, but we will also go a very long way to loosing the faith of every MFC supporter who has been waiting for the day that Viney Jnr plays for the MFC like his old man. Can you imagine MFC playing a strong GC in years to come and JV ploughing our blokes into the turf and us lamenting what could have been? We talk about club culture, this is a perfect example how to set it, and get a gun son of a club champion in the process. In case the arm chair experts are wondering to be top 10 in even a weak draft means you have enormous talent. Mix that with innate skills like hardness and commitment - thats when you get the good AFL players. From what I've seen Viney ticks all the boxes.

If GC are interviewing JV why wouldn't we send him in there with a horrible attitude and Gary Ablett Sucks D*** t-shirt just to put them off the scent!

We've only had one day of free agency so far. Give the guy a break. I can understand him taking his time to make this decision. Leaving the club you've played for for nearly a decade is not an easy choice. If he goes to the Cats I can fully understand as he deserves to get to play finals after such a good career to date.