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Demonland in a nutshell.

1. Tell Wattsy not to listen to those nasty supporters and brutes in the media and reassure him that he's been doing really well. 2. Tell the recruiters that we want to be the dumping ground for every hack that can't get a game at another club. 3. Change the captains. Clearly they didn't toss the coin well enough. Get a player that bleeds for the club in the role. 4. Trade our best draft picks for B graders at other clubs, because we need mature players now. 5. Pay out Schwabby. He's ensured we now have the money to do so.

Dude wears hipster specs with his Collingwood tracksuit. He should be waterboarded in a pool of Danish-based Apple cider for that.

had a bit of a chat to jade rawlings when he came into my shop yesterday. one of the things he mentioned was how impressed he was with lynden dunn when he went down back. from what he said, i would expect him and jack watts to stay down there next year. said we defended ok early in the year, but missed players with skills to clear the ball and start attacks. he said that he got along very well with watts, and was really impressed with his form over the 8 weeks before the ankle injury. said that they would absolutely punish the players over the pre-season, and that he was looking forward to working with watts. said he would be working to bulk up, increase his core strength, and mentioned how quick he was, but that he didnt know how to use it properly yet. the bit i liked most was when he said he was hoping for an opportunity to crunch jack and try and get him angry. he spoke of having a good core group, and of having a lot to work with. reckons we're a good chance to get viney second round. will be looking at some older players which everyone probably knows. doesnt play a big role in recruiting, so didnt get much from him there, but expected whitfield and grundy to go 1 and 2 which is great for us. toumpas was one name he did mention.

Only problem with the "Being Jack Watts" show is that everyone in Australia would watch the first episode making it the highest rated program for the week, then everyone will jump off it saying it's a heap of crap, and the typical "told you so" would echo through the halls of Demonland when it drops out of the top 10 ratings. Sadly if he doesn't win a gold logie he would be deemed a failure.

Given our luck/recruiting skills, we'd probably end up with Nathan Ablett, Jason Cloke and whichever Selwood twin it is who has retired.

Welcome back Range Rover. Should have picked a less guessable name.

Saw Dan Nicholson putting in the hard yards at the tan last week. Great to see kids who want an AFL career

So the story that is going to "blow the footy world apart", the story Ed and his team have been "working on for a while", is Crosisca confessing he was a drug addict. An ex-player was on recreational drugs. Footy will never be the same.... Oh wait, it's completely unchanged.

I always go in to the next year with some optimism, if I didn't then there'd be nothing to look forward to. I'm expecting some improvement next year, not a huge amount, but something to show we are on the right track and if I get that I'll be happy. I love the attitude of the senior players, the ones that are left, and it appears that the old attitude of just playing AFL football is disappearing and these guys are really hungry for success. If we stuff up the draft again I won't be happy.

I hope not. The last person he picked to coach turned into Darth Vader.

They should put Dunn on a 6 weekly contract extension. He seems to manage to string together half a dozen serviceable games at the end of each contract with not much in between. This would maximise his effectiveness.

Got me thinking though... "Keeping up with the Joneses" (Pre-season training reality show) "Mitchbusters" (Weekly Mitch Clark highlights show) "Watts Cooking" (Must watch TV for the haters, as young Jack and Lucas endeavor to bulk up their frames through 30 minute recipes) "Chips" (Frawley showing some authority on the bike) Sure there's plenty more, but I won't totally derail the thread...

If boyd were available to us i would say get him instead but he isn't. Next year the bottom 2 will look very similair IMO hopefully we will be somewher around 14 meaning we wont have a snowballs chance of getting boyd. Why wouldn't we take the BEST rated forward AVAILABLE since we are likely to miss out next year? Hopefully the midfielder we take with our first rounder will be equal to an o'rourke or stringer

Picture posted on the MFC facebook page of the Magnet on a bike in the altitude room. He has to be in the top 3 hardest workers and most committed at the club, says it is on his break as well. I know many players have just taken their breaks which is good they need some time off, but it is a shame he is the only one in this photo. Good on Magnet though

Ok first off, not turning this into a Watts thing, he is my boy and I am not here to find reasons why he is no good. He has an extremely laconic attitude which does not mean he isn't trying, but to put his name in the same breath of Scott Pendlebury is very strange. I get that everyone wants him to be as good and they both have bball backgrounds... But Pendles shows incredible work rate and intensity at the contest when it is his time to go. Watts currently does not have that and I will not sit here and write that he does purely because he plays for MFC. In regards to tackling technique you are very very very right. Big muscles don't make good tacklers, technique does.... But so does core strength which isn't anywhere near as visual as arm size. Fact is Wellingham has had 5 years in a system promoting core strength, it was one of David Butterfants main directives at Collingwood. I do not believe our players have anywhere near the core strength needed to be a strong tackling side across the board.

My grandfather was around ten years old that day. Sadly, he may not live to see another Melbourne game, let alone a Premiership. Hopefully on the day we finally win one, I'll be able to have a celebratory beer for him.

1. Explode the myth that Jack Watts lacks intensity 2. Ask why if we get Wellingham who is one of the most streamlined midfielders going around, why I need to bulk up others?

Well that's the question, what is the cost? The club surely budgets to spend 100% of the salary cap, so if you can spend it without detrimenting your ability to pay your other players, which it doesn't under my scenario as I've assumed we've got the cap room (and it doesn't impact other aspects of the club because it's budgeted money), then what's illogical or irresponsible about it? What damage do you believe this would cause?

Punch Col Garland in the nuts and let him know there is another one coming if he kicks the ball off the ground again

i'm amazed at the instant rejection of gumbleton on this board. if he arrived at the dees, he'd automatically be the second most skillful tall target we have inside 50. he has nous, he has skill, he's hungry for the ball - the only thing his injuries seem to have robbed him of is his leap. as a kid he was a hell of an aerialist. whether it's confidence to leap or an inability to do so remains to be seen. if he's recovered from his injuries, as he would seem to be, he'd be a great pick up for the dees. let's not forget that our key forward for the second half of 2012 was a defender his entire previous career. our forward stocks are atrocious. i realise that we probably won't get him - essendon will want pick #13, which is laughable - but i'd love to be proven wrong somehow.

I love this time of year and hate it at the same time. FFS, don't say something is a rumour when it isn't. Also, if someone is posting a rumour it should be incumbent on them to say where it's come from. They don't have to give a name, but at least a direction. I don't want any of this "I've heard" crap.

Saturday, 19 September, 1964. Ronald Dale Barassi held the premiership club aloft and never played for the club again.

So the experts have been watching tooty for 35 yrs have they?.......what makes them better judges than me the AA team is a crock, always has been, always will, NikNat was a political decision to grow the game.... ...I am so sick of the hype over this guy, yes he is big and athletic, yes he does some freakish things, but last weekend Jolley and Dawes smacked him and Cox............. NikNat is just a highlight reel at the moment, and when Cox hangs up his boots let's see what he can do then...he may turn out to be a great player.....but the definition of a great player on this board according to some is a player who can influence a game and maybe win it....NikNat is so far off being that player ......Sam Jacobs by everything, stats etc was the best ruckman this season, then daylight......I repeat where are Gibson, Mitchell, Pavlich......

Dear GWS, Karma says hi

LOL - GWS to offer Cotchin money he couldn't refuse - yeah pull the other one Sheeds

I dont agree with much that you do say - but you are on the money with this one. All kudos must go to the head conductor.

My top 5: 1. Continue to pour the aerobic and fitness work into the players while building bodies in the gym. Building AFL-level resilience into our players' bodies must be the no.1 priority. 2. Bolster the midfield with two 'plug and play' AFL-quality mids. Wellingham and Caddy would be ideal. If not, target Salopek and Stevens with later picks. 3. Draft at least two more potentially A-grade mids with early picks. Viney is one, raffle the other among the SA guns. 4. Ensure we get Jesse Hogan in the GWS 17.y.o mini-draft 5. Build some sophistication into the game plan. Focusing on stoppages and playing the percentages around the boundary keeps it simple but it's relatively easy to counter. Forgive me, but did you watch any footy this year? Neeld and co did practically nothing in a football sense this season apart from trying to develop a competitive unit at stoppages. That's why we were so boring to watch most of the time. If nothing else, we improved in terms of our ability to be competitive at the stoppages. What we did after that was generally more of a problem.

The $cully situation also forced us to look at our whole recruiting structure and set up. It's a big win for us how its turned out,

The club are definitely looking to establish ties with China. I can't comment on the recruiting of players side of things. But they're definitely making inroads to the local chinese community and establishing links over in China.

Received an email yesterday thanking me for membership etc etc. Contained in the letter were words to the effect that we are only a short way into the plan.ie. I dont think Neeld and football dept is thinking "short , short term". I have a strong feeling they will try as hard as they can to get Hogan and if we miss someone will pay overs and we will still have a very good hand. The football dept have had a long time to think all this through and I trust we will fill a few gaps.

I have had similar thoughts. Once they put $600,000 a year on him which was outbid the AFL was between a rock and a hard place in terms of compensation. Smelt like the MFC knew he was gone and plan was to maximise. I too am very glad he is gone.

I'd say we need two good midfielders (3 would be nice) and two good forwards (tall and small) and we'd be pretty much right. We have a passable backline, just our midfield and forward line need beefing up. If we draft right this year (why it is so massive for us) we can go a good way to fixing all these problems. We potentially have 3 first round draft picks (that is massive) and throw in Viney. This could be our superdraft. I think if all goes well in this years draft we could see finals 2014 for sure. So all things going well I'd say we can turn around this train-wreck of a team in this off season.

Complete spud. Next.

The club is trying to up the trade value, if they rated him he would have played more games.

I don't like the word 'culture'; it reminds me of yoghurt. It's the latest buzz word but that doesn't mean that it's unimportant. In any organisation, it is important to help individuals develop a sense that they are both valued as 1. individuals and 2. part of something bigger than just themselves. The organisation should add an extra element to each individual's sense of who they are (however small). Otherwise, it is just a pay cheque. There are a million different ways to do this but often a key factor is to get the right people into the right positions of responsibility. Elite sport requires another level of commitment on top of this, so it's even more important to get the right people running the show.

Dont think that Neeld has that long to invest in 2 17yr olds. Tonatopia would have a field day if the MFC did that.

Then again perhaps not WJ

Sounds nasty DC I miss RR we have not had a new poll for days!

Unfortunately, I think going for international recruits is somewhat of a luxury, the type of thing you would do if you had a strong list and were able take a punt on your rookie pics I feel we will be trying to recruit football players (WAFL, SANFL & VFL) with these sort of picks, so have no room for speculative guys from overseas. I don't resent the club for this, as I'd be p1ssed if the recruiters were looking for talent overseas when we struggle to make the most of the National Draft as it is!

You weren't the messenger of rumour. You read something and said it was a rumour. You can be ridiculed for that.

HaHa, sorry, theres only room for me, my pet, & a leggy petite fem. But feel free to add to my basic ramblings.

My point exactly...you have to spend the money....United need to keep succeeding they are so far in debt, one poor season and they are gone......maybe the "culture" there is fear.... Everybody who plays professional sport wants to win, it is what drives them to be at the top, otherwise we would have the AFL at VAFA standard My opinion is based on sport was fine about 40 years ago without all these fancy words, teams still won (and lost) and the work environment seemed to survive without them as well....I played sport to win, if I didn't think I could win at a particular sport I didn't do it......that is the 'culture'...it is just some are not as good as others...but it can happen......but it does not need a fancy word to define it....it is just a desire to win I had the desire but being the height of a large garden gnome I took a battering trying to win, now with pins holding where the limbs and other bits join reminding me.........but I won quite a bit, just because I had desire to do it...if next year we have 46 guys with a desire to win no matter what the cost, we will....but maybe a team will be bigger and better, the desire will still be the same, just the bodies might not be....it has nothing whatsover to do with this overused 'culture' word...

"Especially if Cloke leaves" this is the key mate. What happens if Cloke doesn't leave? With every goal Clokey kicks in September, Eddies egomaniacal desperation to retain him increases. The more desperate he gets the more he pays him. The more he pays him the less there is for Sharrod, Tyson, Harry and whoever else is OOC. It is fanciful for a Collingwood supporter not to expect that at least 1 doesn't get tipped out. It's when they do that we need to be ready to pounce. I wouldn't bat an eyelid at a 4 year deal for $2 - 2.5 Million for Sharrod. 4 years and $1.5 for Tyson

What if The Messenger is pulling it out of his rear end? I have heard that, apparently, you like to discuss prospective trades and some say they sound ridiculous...

We should bluff about putting pick #4 on the table for Tippet. May be enough to cause GC to want to hold onto their #2 pick

The one thing I alwasy remember when this debate comes up is that Natanui is almost a full year older than Watts. So physically, Natanui is bound to have the advantage, but with another solid preseason under his belt with Misson, I reckon we could see a stronger Watts next year. I guess the other benfit of drafting Watts is that Natanui's ability could fall of sooner than Watts due to Natanui's reliance on his athleticism. Remember that athletic ruckmen we used to have, Jeff White. As his body started to get run down and older, his effectiveness dropped big time. That's the danger with relying on athleticism so much, once it goes you can't get it back. I'm not saying it's going to happen, but I'm an avid basketball player and fan, and it's very noticeable that those guys that have always relied on their athleticism to be successful can drop off in their effectiveness sooner than those with strong fundamental skills. Natanui has still got a lot of time to develop his skills, but is he going to be as effective when he loses a yard of pace, or if he can't jump as high??

"War" about to "erupt". Man I love the hyperbole of the footy media.

Season 2012 is over. This is good. Off season time to re-charge the batteries, lie in the sun. Think of other things to footy i.e life. Our FD is about to draft into the club at least 6 players who will be in our top 22 in 2013. Our players are already knuckling down and prepping for an huge pre-season. Just because we're not fussing over every inane rumour like a bunch of nervous old ladies doesn't mean we've lost the will... more that we trust the coach and his team to deliver a better result than we can imagine.

I think the expressions in the crowd tell the story !!