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Ross Lyon's stocks are through the roof at the moment. He demands a hard, disciplined, professional culture. And fitness in particular is a key component to all Ross Lyon teams. Apparently, as soon as he got to Freo, Lyon singled out Pavlich and told him he was too fat and needed to get fit. Pavlich did so, and is now in absolutely red hot form. And who did he desperately want to take with him to Freo? Yep, Dave Misson - someone he rates extremely highly and someone with whom he has worked very closely. With Buttifant, Misson is apparently regarded as the best in the business. IMO Neeld has a similar focus to Lyon. And that's why he also wanted Misson. The fact that we now have him has to inspire confidence. Many posters here are understandably frustrated with the results this year. But the performance this year is the culmination of a soft, unfit list that was built prior to this year. Neeld and Misson are now trying to fix it, but this will take time. In short, Neeld and Misson are the solution, not the problem. Freo's rise this year under Lyon (in my opinion at least) demonstrates this. It's about nailing the fundamentals - and, over time, the results should then follow. Neeld didn't inherent a list as good as Freo's, but I'm convinced he knows how to build one. Fitness and discipline are key components to that. There can be no argument that Neeld and Misson do not know what elite level AFL lists look like in terms of fitness. Rather, the knowledge gap on this point seems to sit with some MFC supporters and (soon to be exited) players. In two years from now, under Misson's guidance, this list will be a lot stronger and fitter than the one we witnessed take the field 22 times this year. In the meantime, it would be good if some of the Neeld critics here would just properly consider these facts.

Are you sure it wasn't an MCC tie? The guy is about as Melbourne as Tom Scully

Pav kicked 6 interstate last night from 47 inside 50's carving up a backline with a potential 2012 AA backman and 2 previous AA backmen one allegedly the best full back of the modern era. Pav kicked 2 on Frawley last week at home from 60 inside 50's. Whilst limited rebound in 2012 Frawley was rarely beaten all year under immense fire.

If anyone was in doubt about the importance of structures and game-plans they should no longer be. Lyon has brought defence, accountability, zones, work ethic, etc to what in the main is a mundane group. He's arguably the best coach in the competition. I hope Neeld clears a lot of the nay sayers around the club, because until he does they won't be on the same page. Twice in his retirement speech Green spoke of "buy in", which can only mean plenty of players hadn't. I have no doubt that this is one of the main reasons for our diabolical season. He needs everyone pulling in the same direction.

People acting like Davey is useless etc makes me so bloody mad... I want to meet all of you keyboard heroes and unleash on you. Yeah he had lost a step, yeah his career is coming to an end... but show some respect for someone who has given us many great memories. I swear, I hate 90% of MFC supporters, disloyal pack of sooks.

Both StKilda and Fremantle had reasonably establish lists when Lyon arrived. It is a big stretch to imagine he would get the same results with Melbourne's list.

He is no star, but he is I mature player from a successful club that fills a role we can't currently fill. This is what free agency should be like.

I preferred Tuckerbag myself. A talking paper bag whilst pulling a cone was always amusing...

Seemingly this thread is where facts come to die, so I don't know why I'm bothering.... 1. Ross Lyon was contracted at St Kilda for 2012 (albeit with an exit clause that allowed him to sign with Freo in Sep 2011) 2. Garry Lyon & Ross Lyon shared the same manager at the time. So effectively Gaddy would've had to have done a Ross to speak to Ross - if y'all catch my drift? Ross Lyon is a highly regarded coach in AFL circles for a more than a few reasons. His W/L record is enviable & he has a pretty strong reputation for adding steel to teams with a soft underbelly. MFC should've approached him, but to blame G Lyon is disingenuous, blame the people that made him make that call when he was hopelessly compromised. In all fairness though perhaps they saw the fact that Garry & Ross sharing the same management was an advantage. Who knows? What does it really matter now? Spiltmilk.gif For those who are genuinely interested in the ins & outs of the topic please read the 'Due Diligence' thread. I expect the hand wringers, knee jerkers & factually deficient will continue to start more garbage Weltschmertz polls & threads though.

Jay Clark reported after the football tonight that he's likely to be heading to Melbourne. I'll be fairly happy about that, premiership player with experience. He's also a free agent (not sure if he's restricted or not)

Out the door they go-Some of them hardly used. Others reconditioned.

I have been led to believe that the aim is 75 - 80% AFL elite fitness for 2013, and 100% for 2014. Also that endurance will still be the pre Xmas training focus, but building pace will be the focus in early 2013. Watch some of our supposedly slow players 'suddenly' develop pace. Source: my best mate and Misson often discuss training methodologies (my mate was the AFL umpires running coach for years and I helped train him when he was a lad).

Jack Watts is probably sitting back watching West Coast also wishing we picked Naitanui

Hahaha. "Everyone shut up, here comes the midfield coach. I dont want him to hear what we are planning for the match. "

What on earth does the fact that he was brought up in Brighton got to do with his lack of or desire of competitiveness. The need to compete at a certain level comes from within and whether he comes from Brighton or Boronia should not be a factor at all.

At least he will be able to replace Moloney and Petterd as the most incorrectly spelt surname on Demonland.

But it doesn't have to be one or the other. Everything you mentioned was true and important, as is using the draft to get top end talent into your club. Pavlich is a case in point. He's their greatest player and best on ground last night. He was also a top 5 pick. Things don't need to be mutually exclusive.

Wrong. Makes me laugh when a Demon supporter thumbs their nose at any player, let alone a guy that kicked a combined 67 goals in 2009 and 2010 for the dominant Cats. He will bring with him elite training principles and a winning culture. He is more accomplished than anyone on our list. He has played in many big games in September. Not to mention this club has not had a small forward for 7 years. He will be a welcome addition to the MFC for a couple of years while the youngsters develop.

NQR? i understand he is getting on, but lets be serious, the guy will probably be better than most of the current players on our list. got pace, can play mid or fwd, pretty good skills. If thats the deal, I'm happy to have byrnes at melb

For those that don't understand what the coach and players are talking about when they say everyone needs to "buy in", have a look at the dockers tonight. Every player is doing exactly what Ross Lyon wants. They know their structures backwards, and all play like their lives depend on every contest. This is exactly what has been missing from Melbourne, and is the reason we will see so many players go this year. The ones that are prepared to buy in to what Neeld wants will be the ones that stay. Freo have a lot more talent than us, so were able to turn it around a lot quicker, but with total buy in from the players, we can move up the ladder quicker than people expect.

I tend to agree. Back in 2004/5/6, Davey was one of the reasons people went to Melbourne games. He made defensive pressure for small forwards a requirement. He made chasing and tackling mandatory (and frightening, for half backs). He showed that a forward pocket can and should do more. Yes, his career didn't hit the heights it could easily have, but in the years we were playing finals, and even since, he's been a loyal servant to the club. He's struggled of late, and for that reason it's neither surprising nor terribly disappointing that he's considering not playing for us next year, but I think it's rather sad and insulting for us to just turn on him and say things like 'get lost' and 'useless' or whatever words people are using. Congratulate Davey on serving the club for 8 years (or however long), and just be at peace with him leaving.

Why? Because he regrets being at a club where 'supporters' take cheap pot-shots at you presumably.

Me too- the guys in my factory work their arse off every day.I'm moving to Beach Rd very soon -after a quick re-structure of their super funds.

Great post. Its surprising how many Melbourne fans dont understand the significance of Misson's recruitment. Has an outstanding record of conditioning players to play tough hard footy at the Swans from 2001 - 2007 and the Saints from 2008 - 2011. With Buttifant regarded as one of the best in the business. An AFL player can confidently place their trust in Misson knowing that he will put the through a pre season that will have them in the best condition possible to make the most of their talent. As a contrast imagine you are an Essendon player right now...

One benefit of the reality bus this year is that at least we know we have a way to go .Unlike Bombers and Carlton who think they are on the rise.

Yes a club is going to trade a first round pick who plays for them. for a potential criminal who may never play again and has made it clear he's happy to not play AFL again if need be. If this trade happens I'll not only give you every possession I own, but I'll also personally deliver the letter from the AFL to shut down Port Adelaide as a club.

Agree. In the end, even though he's fallen out of favour at Geelong, he has proven talent and he will fill a void, whilst adding a dose of professionalism. At no cost, I guess we stand to lose nothing.

Frawley is a better defender than Tarrant, O'Brien, Schoenmakers, Stratton, Dawson & the 2012 Matty Scarlett

Mate, you don't give up pick 4 for two averages players. You wouldn't do it for five average players.

I like it Grun Dee, I'll give it a shot. FREE AGENTS Danyle Pearce: Outside small running utility. Can play forward, midfield or off half back. 26 years of age, 154 AFL games experience, fifth in Port Adelaide's B & F in 2011 and 2006 NAB Rising Star winner. Jordan Russell: Rebounding half back flanker capable of playing a shut down role with good disposal. 25 years of age, 116 AFL games experience, two top 5 finishes in Carlton B & F's and currently in Carlton's leadership group. Shannon Byrnes: Small crumbing forward/midfielder. 28 years of age, 108 AFL games experience & 100 goals. Two time premiership player who comes from a winning culture. I initially prefered Jarred Moore from Sydney Swans for this role as he's two years younger and in Sydney's leadership group, however if you believe the media Shannon Byrnes is a done deal which is still a good get. Byrnes is quicker I'll give him that although has no right boot! TRADES In pre-arranged deal with GWS to allow us to take Viney in 2nd round,, Pick 3 to GWS for MD Pick 2 being Jesse Hogan (I suspect GC will trade Pick 2 to GWS for MD Pick 1 being Jack Martin). Jordan Gysberts to Essendon for Scott Gumbleton: 24 years of age, 28 AFL games experience and 33 goals. At 197cm & 97kg he'd walk into our starting CHF position. When fit he's shown what he can do yet will struggle to gget a game at Essendon with their tall forwards. I'd back Misson to get him right. Essendon get a highly rated NQR midfielder with massive upside and former high draft pick and we get a highly rated NQR key forward with massive upside and former high draft pick. Sounds like a fair deal to me! 3 WAY DEAL Ricky Petterd to Carlton David Ellard to West Coast Koby Stevens to Melbourne: 21 years of age, 11 AFL games experience, former early 2nd round draft selection formerly from Gippsland Power. Good inside midfielder and a good build at 187cm & 83kg. Has had a very good season with East Fremantle in the WAFL yet can't break into West Coast's strong midfield. Very good at the contested ball which is what Neeld puts a focus on. Stefan Martin & our 3rd round Pick approx 45 to Collingwood in exchange for their 1st round pick which if they end up runners up as I suspect will be Pick 21. DRAFT MD Pick 2: Jesse Hogan, don't have a lot of info on Jesse apart from the fact that he's a massive unit who could become a dominate FF/CHF. Exactly the type of player we'll need and is the type of player that I'd be willing to wait another 12 months for. Pick 4: Either one of Jonathan O'Rourke or Oliver Wines and I'm starting to lean towards O'Rourke. Similar heights and O'Rourke weighs in at 75kg compared to Wines' 83kg, yet O'Rourke is equally as fierce at the ball and has that burst of pace that Wines may lack from the contest. Considering we'll have Viney who's a similar player to Wines it's making me lean towards O'Rourke with this pick. He also is a very composed player and a good kick, Pick 13: Either one of Ben Kennedy or Dayle Garlett as I'm sure at least one will be available, preference is Kennedy. 174cm & 76 kg lightning quick small forward/midfielder. Seems to have a touch of arrogance about him which I like and is able to play midfield also. Will be the perfect replacement for Shannon Byrnes if we get Byrnes as a free agent. The pieces start to fall together. Pick 21 (from Collingwood): One of either Matthew Haynes, Jackson MacRae or Laine Wilkins: With this pick (if we were to get it) I'd be looking for a really quick outside midfielder capable of kicking goals ala Daniel Wells type and these three all meet the citeria. My preference would probably be for Wilkins from WA who comes in at 189cm and 78kg. Is expected to test off the charts at draft camp and is one of the quickest players there with good skills. Think a quicker and better skilled Cale Morton. Pick 26: Jack Viney (F/S): Don't think anything has to be said really. I'm hoping he'll become our Sam Mitchell. Pick 64 (approx): Paul Marschall, 20 year old from Central Districts in the SANFL who comes in at 187cm and 80kg. Running half back with good skills and rarely misses a kick, good pace to. I was also thinking of Dean Towers from North Ballarat with this pick but there's a good chance that he may not last this long. Pick 82 (approx): Daniel Nicholson: Rookie upgrade. Pre Season Draft: Khan Haretuku, 23 years of age, 198cm & 98kg. Kicked 30 goals this year playing for Frankston in the VFL and represented Victoria in the State league match this year. Can play either end of the ground and is exactly the type of player Melbourne need to get some depth in our KPF. 1st Rookie Draft Pick: Ben Ross, turns 24 years of age in approx one week. 179cm midfielder but can play in a number of positions. Played a grand total of 14 games for North Melbourne and was delisted at the end of 2010. Won the JJ Liston Trophy for VFL's top player this year and would help add some experience and dash to the team. 2nd Rookie Draft Pick: Travis Tuck, 25 years of age, 187cm & 86kg midfielder who played 20 games for Hawthorn and has spent the last 2 seasons playing with Werribee in the VFL after being fired from Hawthorn over the drug scandle. Seems to have turned things around and had two solid seasons. Like his brother, is a very good inside midfielder but also has a habbit of finding himself in space. Seemed to come close to being picked up by us last year and with what's sounding like could be a large exodus of Melbourne players this year could be a very useful pick up ala James Magner/Tom Couch. So this would see: Departures: Clint Bartram (ret through inj?), Aaron Davey (ret through inj?), Brad Green (ret), Matthew Bate (FA?), Brent Moloney (FA), Jarred Rivers (FA?), Jordan Gysberts (trade), Stefan Martin (trade), Ricky Petterd (trade), Jamie Bennell (delist), Lucas Cook (delist), Liam Jurrah (delist), Kelvin Lawrence (delist). Arrivals: Shannon Byrnes (FA), Danyle Pearce (FA), Jordan Russell (FA), Scott Gumbleton (trade), Koby Stevens (trade), Jonathan O'Rourke (draft), Ben Kennedy (draft), Laine Wilkins (draft), Jack Viney (draft), Paul Marschall (draft), Khan Haretuku (p/draft), Ben Ross (r/draft), Travis Tuck (r/draft) & of course Jesse Hogan to arrive 12 months later. Edit: Spelling

The disappointment I sense around this thread is that people feel Byrnes is a relatively small fish in the overall scheme of things which is true. Assuming the report is correct then we need to remember that this would only be the first signing and possibly only one out of four or five players with AFL experience brought in to help fill part of the void and cover short term needs while we are, at the same time, building our stocks of young players with talent to develop through the draft. The "void" I'm talking about will be the result of turning over pretty close to a quarter of our list by the end of the calendar year. This will entail their replacement by a mix of free agents, trades and draftees. I hope to expand on this view at some time in the future but I believe the exercise involved in reaching our 2013 playing list will not be a zero sum game and that we will have a substantially better list at the end of the process than we have now. I mean no offence to those who are/will be leaving the club but in pure and unemotional terms only and based on their individual contributions in 2012 alone, it is likely that we will be giving away nothing much* and whatever we get will be a positive. The future input of some of the incoming players might not be significant while others will most certainly make a difference. I believe the overall result will be a plus for the Melbourne Football Club with the results evident immediately if our remaining players stay healthy and improve with the additional benefits of another pre season under the current regime. Whatever you might think of our first recruiting selection of the off season, it will be the overall picture that matters in the end. * to test this theory, make up your own list of the players likely to exit the club over the next 2 - 3 months by retirement, trade and delisting and ask yourself what contribution each made to the club in 2012 on a scale of 0 to 10 (in fact you can go into negative territory). For e.g., I would be giving Brad Green +3, Brent Moloney + 2, Liam Jurrah -3 and Kelvin Lawrence 0 of the currently known departures.

We dont want guys that can kick a football accurately.They wont fit in wtih the playing group.

I have no problems with this. I just want it to be Aarons decision, I would hate to see him running around in another jumper. I just want to treat our departing players with the utmost respect.

Byrnes is 29 in April; 108 games in 9 years at Geelong. 175cm. No thanks; why would he want to come to MFC anyway. He might be cheap, but we have [censored] loads of salary cap to fill. We don't need NQR players from anywhere.

Bloody hope Clark's foot heals up then.

Great post. Fantastic vision you have given us. Let's hope it doesn't get anywhere near this, otherwise it might as well be virtual, on a tablet screen, between people who never see each other, with made up names.... Oh, wait......

Mark Harvey was robbed last year due to the side being decimated by injury. They were on the up anyway. Lyon has landed a plum job where much of the hard yards had been done already.

Needs more Hawthorn losing

Honestly , how many times we going to roll this barrel out. it didnt happen. It was never going to happen , it couldnt have happen... and you knwo what IT DIDNT HAPPEN. Good luck to Freo, they're not us. Lets move on

Thanks KC and WJ for all your reports and summaries.

Here! Here! Many thanks KC.

Jason Mifsud been talking to Seven?

I love how all these cases are positioned that players are walking out on the MFC when in fact its more they have been told some hard truths.

Gysberts isn't perfect, but he clearly has talent. I am more than happy to get rid of players who have been in the system for ages and failed, but Gysberts has plenty of time on his side and with glimpses of usable talent, it would be a lazy and soft option to get rid of him. Neeld has to back himself to make something of these sorts of kids, otherwise what sort of coach is he?

The swans are the template the MFC should study hard. Recruit players to do a job.

I can't see having our own standalone team would make one iota difference you're all being over emotional

Wait a minute... Todd Viney's coaching career goes Melbourne assistant coach 2000 A few years coaching Moama Hawthorn from 2005-2008 Adelaide 2009-10 So, just guessing, but those last two positions in particular suggest he's been around clubs which got their recruiting strategies very right. He then came to Melbourne specifically in a list development role, because that was where his coaching interests were, and then after a year stepped into a senior list management role when Barry Prendergast moved on. He's not there as some kind of 'oh, here's something for ya, big fella'. I recognise that the situation with the father-son recruiting is not ideal, but it is far from a crisis. Unless GWS offer Todd a job in exchange for agreeing to let Jack go to them. Edit: As a side note, HR style psych tests are garbage - easily gamed, hopelessly unreliable, and at best can only report on a persons perception of themselves. As such, they inherently favour the arrogant. They are a hurdle requirement that helps to keep management positions reserved for self-important gits.

Lol! Gotta loathe a bloke who 'likes' his own post.