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Lost me.

I actually share some of your blue sky junk, Rangey. If you listen to many media commentators they're convinced we're consigned to being ordinary for the next 5 years, but history shows that isn't necessarily the case. There's no doubt that you have to make intelligent list management decisions, as well as having a little luck, but things can change far quicker that many think. Between 1992-1994 the Swans won only 8 games. In 1993 they won one game for the year and they had a worse percentage than we have this year. They had the makings of some good players, which included Dale Lewis, Kelly, Creswell, Luff, Bayes, Dunkley, but in reality the cupboard was pretty bare. Three years later they played off in a grand final. They added from other clubs players such as Locket, Stewie Maxfield, Roos, Craig O'Brien, Derek Kickett and our own Kevin Dyson; and through the draft they picked up Micky O'Loughlin, Shannon Grant, Leo Barry and Stafford. They lost the GF to North, but from finishing last in both 1993 and 1994 they finished top in 1996 with 16.5 wins. In 2000 and 2001 the Saints had a combined 6.5 wins finishing last and second last. By 2004 they finished third on 16 wins. Through trades in that time they added Gehrig, Hamill, Capuano, Black, Brett Voss and our own Stephen Powell and through the draft Riewoldt, Kosi, Ball, Montagna, Dal Santo and Goddard. When Collingwood went down the ladder after the two GF losses to Brisbane many thought they'd be down for quite a while and they'd missed the premiership boat with the end of the "Buckley era". Who would have thought that within a few years of Buckley, Burns, etc. retiring that they'd win a flag ? Ultimately there are different ways to skin a cat. Geelong built their success through the drafts of 1999 and 2001 with astute draft picks, great Father/Sons and it was topped off with the addition of Brad Ottens. I tend to favour building through the draft for a chance of sustained success and I have no doubt that if we'd nailed every pick over the last 5 years we'd be a very formidable proposition, but what's done is done and even players that haven't shown a lot due to injury issues have still shown developmental potential. The idea of being aggressive with 'free agency', perhaps trading pick 13, as well as nailing quality picks in a good draft could transform our list quickly. An astute trade last year has already resulted in the best player on our list. I'm all for trying to get another big bodied mature key forward and possibly a Caddy type supplemented with picks 3, 4, and Viney. I see great benefits in getting Cloke, despite the cost, although many won't forget his poor year; and despite Caddy being awful on the weekend I won't judge him on one game. He's a talent with a big body and for anybody that saw him a few weeks earlier against Geelong you'd realise he can play. He's still only 19 with just 20 games to his name. Although, David King's comment on AFL 360 a few weeks ago, which I provide verbatim, "Caddy's a star", is typical media hubris. I reckon there's definitely merit in picking mature players to supplement our group and I maintain that we have a core list that can improve quickly. But I'll be gutted if they trade out picks 3 and 4. Right now Nathan Jones is better than Boak and he wouldn't command pick 4 in an open market. A big mature CHF to complement Clark, a few big bodied quality inside mids (Viney, Caddy, Wines), outside pace and class (Toumpas), small goal kicking forward outside of Blease, an elite kick or two from defence (maybe Strauss and another) and we're well on our way. We obviously won't get it all in this draft, but we can make big inroads.

It's been in place for some years now... Lose Lose some more Keep losing Sack coach Get new coach Continue to lose Stop losing Flag

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How smug is he? I wish he was on radio because I'd ring up and ask him "Roosy, did you try to win every single game as coach of the Sydney Swans?" When I get the inevitable "of course" in response I'd ask "what about NAB Cup games?" No doubt he'd try to guffaw it off as "well it's a practice match not a competitive game." I'd ask "so do betting agencies not run odds on NAB Cup games?"

win

Every time I watch Port play ... he isn't.

He keeps it well hidden in the VFL. I trust the FD see something in him but he is along way. Even a treacle report from the website cant gloss that 9 disposals is still a quite day for a forward. Coupled with his poor game against Frankston, he really is along way off from AFL. I would have expected to have seen more. At least Hawjkins showed "something" at AFL level. Cook has shown near "nothing" at VFL level. It will have to be a cracker of pre season for him if he is still at MFC.

Spoke to Mitch at the G on Sunday. Yes, he's in a moonboot and still on crutches. He made my nephews' day, signing their football and having their photo taken with him. It's that sort of interaction with players that will ensure they're Demon supporters for the rest of their life. Thanks, Mitch!

Mike when you are reading this, I for one don't believe you guys didn't have a clue what Brock was going to say. It was a set up and we all know it, in fact anyone with half a brain in the footy world knows it too.

I am not posting as regular because I am getting rather bored with the negativity and the constant hijacking of threads by a minority But back on topic I had the opportunity on Sunday to ask Josh Mahoney a direct question to which he gave me a direct answer, which I am sure he won't mind me quoting re Lucas Cook and Jack Fitzpatrick I will have to paraphrase a bit because memory not the same as it used to be I asked "with the rumour we are chasing Travis Cloke, does that mean we don't think Cook and Fitzpatrick will make it" He answered "don't believe everything you read about Cloke, but saying that young players need time to develop, especially key position, at least two or three years, and the Club can't afford to stay at the bottom for that time, so there is a need to try and recruit ready to go players, whilst the younger ones develop"

Cloke, Boak, Caddy, Viney and Toumpas + A couple of experienced, hard nut moneyball free agents + Clark, Jones, Frawley, Grimes, Howe, Jamar and Jurrah + A couple of Misson pre-seasons into Watts, Trengove, Tapscott, Blease, Strauss, McDonald and Gysberts + Competition for spots from Gawn, Garland, Nicholson, Magner and a few select others x 18 months to gel into a team playing disciplined, tough, defensive-minded Neeld Football © - The deadwood, the old and the infirm of the past five years = A team capable of playing finals in 2014 and of challenging for the flag from 2015 onwards Who's comin' with me?

We have been an absolutely crud team this year with big question marks on a number of players and a cleanout beckons. The number of players being listed as B grade is laughable and the trade bait is as appealing as old fish in the hot sun. Next year I would hope this would be radically different as some of the C and Ds blossom. Some may fall away. And some fit rather than injured could show more. Grade A - Clark, B + Jones B- Frawley, C+ Howe, McKenzie, Rivers, Watts, McDonald C Trengove, Garland, Grimes,Rivers, Jamar C- Moloney, Green, Nicholson, Strauss, Martin,Blease, Tapscott, D - Barest pass mark Sylvia, Spencer, Gysberts, Jetta, Gawn, Bartram, Sellar Too young to tell atm. Davis, Taggert, Tynan, Sheahan and Williams E and downwards to Z - Fail Bate, Dunn, Petterd, Morton, Bennell, Fitzpatrick, Couch, Cook, Davey, Jurrah, MacDonald My list of departures not in any order will not be the same as Neelds but here goes: Delist: Bate, Dunn, Petterd, Bennell, Fitzpatrick, Cook, MacDonald, (if Davey and Morton stay on main list I would add Jetta and Cook) Move to rookie list: Davey, Morton Trade Sylvia (if the deal is good) Retire: Brad Green Dont upgrade but keep as rookie Magner - Couch to go

If Brad Green looks Neeld in the eye and assures him that his body will enable him to make a meaningful contribution in 2013 and is passionate about playing one more year, then we should give it to him. Don't go down the James McDonald path again! 13 goals in 4 matches is not a bad effort.

I have rarely seen umpiring over the course of a game cost a team a game. We tend to focus on the last decision made yet there were plenty of wrong decision both ways in the previous 3 quarters to both teams. I will say that recent umpiring has taken enjoyment out of the game for me because they get it so badly wrong so often. Schmidt was horrific on Sunday for both teams.(the Grimes decision in the first quarter was an absolute howler) I understand that the best combination of umpires do the finals but it gets right up my nose that they get it so glaringly right during this period. They seem to add the highly sensible reasoning during finals " if i am not sure or it has no material impact on the game then dont blow the whistle" - if only they could so that week in and week out.

Sylvia an A-grader? Jesus Christ. What are we smoking in this thread? You have to be consistently great to be A grade. Sylvia is pretty much the antithesis of consistent. He's played maybe four A grade games in eight years.

I stopped watching the show this year due to Roos. As a player and a coach, I mostly thought he was great, and admired him as such. Now that we have got to "know' him a bit more, he has lost me completely. Never a more up himself commentator have I come across. It's funny that I hated Hird as a player, but as a commentator on OTC I really came to respect him and listen to him due to his proper critique of the game and his relatively balanced views. Pretty much the polar opposite to Roos and his arrogant views. I wonder, were the Swans "irrelevant" back in the day when they were shite??? No they weren't and they obviously are well and truly not now. So are the MFC irrelevant now, no they are not. Paul Roos can F off for all I care, cause I've had him up to my ears!

Thats your view RR The sheer fact we had poor senior and middle range players would suggest to me that recruiting all kids was just going to delay any improvement. And do you always have to start every comment with the likes of "this is plain Rubbish"? There is no need to be so aggressive. It does nothing for your argument IMO except perhaps to get most people's back up.

"Dorothy Boyd ... yes!"

What about me? It isn't fair, a so so list but I don't care...

I wish him well, hope he has a fantastic recovery and a great pre season on his way to a reviving his career in 2013.

Pick 13 and Moloney sounds abot right. I think Moloneys a late second rounder - would''ve be a touch earlier, but he is a bit loose upstairs. Caddy is going to be a very good player, he'd be an asset, he'll be better than Boak - and I dont even mind if we get Boak, I just think Caddy is going to be a really good player.

I would rather him stay a year too long then leave a year early, and I still think he has a bit to offer and has been our most dangerous forward the last few weeks. One year deal if he is keen for it would be my plan.

Hey mate, why don't you do me a favor and retire yourself from the endless stream of steaming.

Reckon he'll go around again. Honestly, if you take a view that we cut, say, 13-14 players over 2 years, what difference does it make to cut him next year not this? The outcome in the end will be the same, in that the 13-14 players will be gone in 2 years regardless of which ones go when. Why nail Green this year when there are enough that can go before him?

He's actually playing better footy than most on our list.

I hope he plays on next year. Would rather him than Bate or Petterd.

Has there been an announcment? Hope he plays the year Looked like his old self against the GC kids Was great to see!

I was there and I cheered for three reasons: 1. He kicked it out on the full. 2. I thought he stubbed his toe doing it. You laugh at your own teammates when that happens. 3. It was Alan Didak.

No it was a small group, but I asked him directly, if that makes sense, the group I was with all have very good 'bulldust detectors",so what we got was an answer, I have asked a couple of similar questions to Jade Rawlings, Leigh Brown and Mark Neeld on previous occasions and you get the same consistent answer.....I for one along with Nathan Jones believe we have the right people in the right jobs.....what they are doing is for the long term....it may be painful, it requires patience but it will work......developing Key Position Players being one part of it

Do we really want to draft a 17yo who cannot play until 2014?????....In what is considered a great draft??? I not to sure about this......

I'm pretty happy with the way the club has played it so far, we should really ramp it up leading up to the draft though. It is absoutely essential that GWS and GCS know that it's 2nd round or bust for us with JV and it's important that the club is willing to follow through with the bust part of the equation as well. I honestly think it is 2nd round or bust with him as well (that's what I'm hearing). I'd have thought Todd would want to avoid anything that even remotely resembles nepotism, particularly with the state the club is in. Put simply - we must pick the best player and I think we will.

Well I've jeered plenty of opposition injuries. Frazer Gerig when he tried to baulk Carrol on the mark in the final. Aaron Hammill when he did his groin tackling with his knees as he was prone to do. Roared with delight when Whelan rattled Hirds bones in the Elimination final (tho' he came back on, played well and earned my greater respect) And I thoroughly enjoyed Didaks effort. Never jeered 1 of our own tho'.

Nothing sinister here at all. Mitch tweeted recently that he was back in light training.

Do these idiot journo's even know the rules? Boak is on the verge of signing a 3 year deal with Geelong according to this fool Porter. Hey Ashley, he has to get there first ya knobend.

I would suggest that people who thought Cale was subbed for playing poorly are ignorant and possib;y go to the football with no idea what's going on. There was a murmur when he went of and thankfully no one near me said anything because I would have given them both barrels and quite possbily got ejected. And to the moron on this thread who thinks it's OK (as long as others are doing the jeering for him) do you also think it's OK that the players on the field and in the stand hear this? WTF would you want to play for a club with supporters like that?

I reckon Neeld will revolutionise Melbourne and be the turning point in our history, he may not be the coach who takes us all the way (or he might) but he will change the way we approach football and for the better.

You are a clown.

Posters suggesting the board go to market to see who's out there before CS is reappointed clearly have no idea. Doing that is essentially asking him to reapply for his job. Both humiliating and pointless. It's really quite simple, the board thinks he's earnt another contract or they don't. He's either performed well against his KPI's, or he hasn't. Personally I think Cameron has many admirable qualities, but a few flaws. Whilst I firmly believe he gets the narrative of our history better than anyone, I also think he spends too much time paying tribute to it. He's good at working a room when it suits him, and [censored] poor at other times. No point rehashing the footy department stuff, it's been done to death. If he hasn't learnt to stop meddling he'll make himself unemployable. He and Connolly turned Freo around, and for that he deserves a lot of credit, But anyone with footy and business acumen could have done that. There was a lot of heavy hitters wanting to get on board. I think he's a good (not great) CEO and we're probably lucky to have him.

I don't see media scrutiny as a bad thing. The media hounds on about Melbourne more than other clubs because many people want to see Melbourne succeed. Malthouse, even Kennett have voiced disappointment at how inept Melbourne has been over the years, considering it is a foundation club and the true home club of the MCG. The club used to be a powerhouse and isn't, and believe it or not, people want to see Melbourne become successful, more than they do the Doggies, or Saints, or Roos. Melbourne was uninspiring after quarter time. The Suns had a deplorable lineup, and their full forward was limping all day and yet still was a target on a number of occasions, which isn't good enough on Melbourne's behalf. They also lost Prestia early and were 2 men down for the whole match. The most disappointing aspect was the obvious complacency, which the TV commentators brought up a few times. The Suns also smashed Melbourne in clearances and inside 50s, which is very, very disheartening. A win is a win, but you can't hinge the future of the club on wins like that. We wold have smashed them either way, no matter what the ins and outs were for the team, but Melbourne is a long, long way off. Acknowledging that doesn't make you a bad supporter.

Defending Schwab seems about as popular as saying that you rate Terry Wallace's views on list management, but I reckon Schwab gets some pretty unfair treatment round here. There's little doubt that he meddled too much in footy department matters, but he's seemingly rectified that behavior; and when I look at some of his raw achievements one can't help but be impressed. Our sponsorship has been at record levels, our membership is at record levels and our financial position is supposedly at it's strongest since we broke with the MCC in 1981. And speaking of the MCC, Schwab has presided over an agreement that now makes us once again a section of the MCC and he's also orchestrated an agreement that ensures a better financial dividend from the MCC. Also, we now own the Bentleigh club, which places us in a stronger financial position with greater leverage. The first person I heard say that we "grew out of a ground and not a suburb" was Schwab. I've always felt that he gets the MFC and our difficulties. He understands our nuances and challenges better than most and he embraces our rich history, which says a lot considering he grew up a Richmond supporter. He's responsible for our re-branding with the emblem change. An emblem that reflects our legacy to those lost in wars, our history in writing the rules of the game and our longevity. Whether you like the blazers or not it's another sign that he wants us to embrace our heritage. Does anyone give a better speech when discussing our club and its place in history ? But those that seemingly don't like him want to put every poor playing performance, bad recruiting decision, or past coaching inadequacies at his feet. I'm not suggesting that he's above scrutiny, or that he hasn't made mistakes, but equally there's been much to like. Stynes virtually begged him to come back to the club such was our squalid state. Off the field things are now looking very sound and for that Schwab must take much of the credit and I'm glad that the Board has recognised his good work. Clearly we all want our on-field fortunes to change and it remains the club's greatest challenge, but off-field he's presided over a club that now has no excuses, or impediments to make this can happen. I have a feeling he'll leave a lasting positive legacy to the MFC.

I'm of the opinion that we should canvas options before considering reappointing Schwab. If there is a better person out there, particularly from a successful background at a strong club, then I would look very closely at them. I don't buy into ADC's argument that he is the reason blokes (in particular well paid senior players) have fallen short of providing what the club needs on field, but also I don't like the fact that his people skills are not as evidently strong as you'd want in a person in that position. He is a holdover from a troubled past and should ideally be replaced with a Neeld-type outsider who comes from a successful environment. I'm a big believer that this 'old boys' element within the club needs to be knocked on the head.

If we were going to gamble on an U-17, I'd rather we go for a Big Powerful & aggressive type. I don't want us to get any more kids who turn up like Lambs. If we're going young, go tough bastards first. At the very least they'll have a dip & can become a solid footy citizen. No more Weetras, Mortons, Bennells, Marics.... If we're to use early picks, no guess work on ticka.

Neeld does seem to like most players to have more than one string to their bow, which can only be good though very frustrating for fans starved of success for so many years.Howe's induction into the midfield can only enhance his natural talents as a marking forward. If he keeps it up he will be a big AFL drawcard, as Liam was starting to become before his various injuries and other issues. Let us all (trolls excepted) hope that the hard work of this year, reassessment and the learning of their various new roles, pays off big time in the next few seasons. Then we will all (trolls excepted) be happy to hail Neeld as the next Norm Smith!!

Coot, are you suggesting that this club follow basketcase Pork Powder in a race to the bottom? The warning for Neeld is don't be crap? Don't be employed by a club that refuses to give you any FD or recruiting money or full say in list management? Don't be employed by a club that expects chicken salad after giving you chicken [censored] as your main ingredient? Don't accept a two year deal as a rookie coach? Don't be the first coach to lose to both start up sides? Plenty of prophetic warnings for Neeld there, Nostradamus. Hopefully the MFC board don't have the same delusions of granduer as the Port board (& presumably you) & Neeld is judged on his 3 years. Do people who make these asinine suggestions even think about the consequences? If the MFC board was to sacrifice another coach at the altar next year, would there be any credible coach interested in taking the reigns at our own basketcase? Quite frankly, you would be worried about anyone who was interested. The AFL would just about shut us down.

Interesting idea. Example of his approach (and also a good example of his difference to other regimes) is his refusal to play players such as Cook when they're not ready in his mind for AFL, his preparedness to drop senior players, his preparedness to risk getting on their wrong side (i reckon the first coach since Northey who has taken on the senior cartel in an meaningful way) and his focus on his non negotiables (i'd love to know what they are) he expects of his players. The demons needed a new approach and a shake up from the ground up and from what i've seen thus far Neelds the man for the job.

In the last six years, we've tried five coaches. And we've won about five games. Putting pressure on coaches and sacking them hasn't really done us much good recently; perhaps we'd be better trying a revolutionary tactic such as giving them a go.

See this comment I have a problem with. I don't genuinely believe that you want Neeld to succeed. I think you'd rather be 'right' about him. Why else draw this rather obvious conclusion for everyone? Can we just give it a rest for a few days? It's boring.

The persistance of some on this forum has changed my mind on Neeld. RR's poll nearly had me convinced I was right in supporting him but given we only won by 42 points yesterday, I think we should sack him and just let Bandicoot, Hardnut and Tonatopia, et al share the coaching job. We'll be better off then, won't we? Give me a break!

Are you saying that if a coach has his side sitting in the lower echelons for a few years that he's going to come under pressure? What a ground-breakingly, staggeringly brilliant piece of insight. Cheers Bandicoot.