So far this season I have only been wrong once predicting Max will miss from a set shot. It's so clear-cut, and not just the ball spinning and swinging when he walks in, but it is the little skip he does about 5 - 10 metres before before the man on the mark that guarantees he will miss. It shifts his balance and then he swings his leg to compensate. Happens every single time. The only time I got it wrong was when he was close enough that the ball snuck through.

We kicked 1 goal 12 in the second half. The saints kicked 5 goals 3

It's killing me watch this team right now. Goodwin has to do something, he can't talk his way out of this any more.

Think I’ve shared this on here before but an ex-player who was a well-known goal kicking coach told me (about 7 years ago) that Gawn privately asked him for goal kicking tuition, because it was an issue Max was having that the club wasn’t meaningfully help him solve.

I think the advice focused on his shoulders - left shoulder dipping and shoulders not square to the goals at the drop. From memory his accuracy was improved around this period (but without access to the stats).

There are only two things that affect set shot kicking.

Technique, Mindfulness

Technique can be practised. Mindfulness can be taught.

Seems we do neither. ( well.. neither very well !! )

Goes to show it's not just your ability to take a contested mark or lead well.

It's your conversion rate that's probably more important.

2 hours ago, The Jackson FIX said:

Think I’ve shared this on here before but an ex-player who was a well-known goal kicking coach told me (about 7 years ago) that Gawn privately asked him for goal kicking tuition, because it was an issue Max was having that the club wasn’t meaningfully help him solve.

I think the advice focused on his shoulders - left shoulder dipping and shoulders not square to the goals at the drop. From memory his accuracy was improved around this period (but without access to the stats).

I love Max but he should get his money back.

Max simply need to spend more time looking at the goals when walking in...and not the ball/ ground.

It's a strange habit.

Edited June 2Jun 2 by Previously known as LITD.

Interesting data - surprised that frittata hasn’t accumulated better numbers than that, excluding his most recent 7-10 games.

On 02/04/2025 at 22:44, monoccular said:

No surprise re Billings, who thankfully handballed to Sharp from close in rather than kicking a behind or OOBF

Fritta has deteriorated only recently and used to be quite good.

There is a phenemon called the yips and we see it often.

Where even previous accurate players think ...gee I hope I don't miss as well.....this is killing us...I better focus here....oh wait....oh c43p.

Whoever thought of those targets in the cheer squad is a genius. But they now don't seem to work.

Can I suggest a giant picture of Maynard's mug to aim for.

The thing I want to know is what type of conditions are they practicing their goal kicking each week? Is it just an end of training add-on that they have a bit of a giggle and fun, or is it a genuine part of our training regime.

As the old saying goes, you practice how you play, so if it isn't a serious focus then it's any wonder we are terrible at goal kicking.

There's a couple of things I would look to do if I was coaching goal kicking, specifically set shot kicking:

1. I would have a designated 30-40 min block focused on this. I would have players do multiple leads running back and forth to simulate the running in a game and then have them mark on the lead. I would then time them for the 30 seconds and have them focus on their breathing and routine prior to walking in to kick. The purpose of this is to simulate the level of running they would do in a game prior to having a set shot and enabling them to be better equipped for kicking goals under fatigue. The running could focus on each position, for example JVR could do 20-30 metres forward, back and then forward again. Whereas the mids could run say 100m from the back 50 to 35m out to simulate the scenarios they would often have in game.

2. I would consider changing the width of the goals for kicking practice, say 1-2 meters narrower to make the end target smaller. This would then force them to really get their kicking in training spot on and once they are in a game situation the goals would look bigger and easier to kick.

I feel like these are pretty simple things the coaches should be doing and if they aren't they should probably have a look at themselves, specifically Choco.

9 hours ago, bing181 said:

Perhaps not as fixable as one might imagine?

Also missing from the analysis was any recognition that these things can be as much between the ears. As Goodwin pointed out in the press conference, it's contagious. I can't imagine how much Xavier Lindsay must be dreading shots on goal given that he's missed every one he's taken so far.

I'd say it's almost entirely psychological. There's a reason they drill their practice shots in the warmup and then miss during the game. If you're saying to yourself "don't miss it, don't miss it", because we have a reputation of missing, then you're going to miss the shot. Max has spoken freely about how he hasn't yet mastered the art of not overthinking his set shots. He absolutely knows what the problem is - fixing those psychological bugs is haaaard, and I don't believe for a second that the club aren't working on it.

3 hours ago, The Jackson FIX said:

Think I’ve shared this on here before but an ex-player who was a well-known goal kicking coach told me (about 7 years ago) that Gawn privately asked him for goal kicking tuition, because it was an issue Max was having that the club wasn’t meaningfully help him solve.

I think the advice focused on his shoulders - left shoulder dipping and shoulders not square to the goals at the drop. From memory his accuracy was improved around this period (but without access to the stats).

In Max’s first 61 games till the end of 2016 his goal kicking was positive at 34 goals to 24 behinds which was very good. In the following 176 games it’s 77-88. Career wise he is now around 50% goal accuracy. Seems like his bad goal kicking habits have developed since becoming a star and now ingrained. As much his fault as the clubs. Most supporters would note his kicking style hasn’t changed much at all for many years. Most can remember his close in miss at the death that cost us round 1 against Geelong in 2018. It’s exactly the same kicking action as his miss this week against the saints.

Edited June 2Jun 2 by John Crow Batty

How many players dramatically improve their goal kicking after they are drafted? It's not something that really happens. The easiest way to fix goal kicking is to take your kicks from better positions. The trouble is our forward structure and entries are still incredibly poor so we end up having guys who aren't great goal kickers to begin with blazing away at goal with low percentage shots.

Look at where Collingwood and Geelong take most of their shots at goal. They are deep in the forwardline or directly in front of the goal.

The goalkicking is pox, but other than Pickett we also lack players who can pluck goals out of thin air, and I'd be surprised if we weren't in the bottom few sides for set shots from within 15 metres.

Edit - I usually don't take expected score seriously, but this has our set shots as the four easiest in the competition so there (seemingly) goes that theory.

Edited June 3Jun 3 by Supermercado

I could be totally wrong but it looks like our players just do not value the opportunity to kick a goal. I think it’s something in you from a young age. I recall having plenty of ordinary junior games but if I got the chance to kick a goal I mostly kicked them even it it was with a soft and ugly punt kick on a windy day. It doesn’t matter what kick you use or how it looks. How often do our players get perfect drop punt backspin and the ball goes straight but misses. Check out Peter Hudson’s style. The game has changed but nothing has changed when you have the ball in hand 40 metres out.

Max spoke about his goal kicking the other week on mmm & said his focus is more on his contested marking & kicking goals isn't the biggest focus.

He did say if he had the shot to win the game or if it was up to him to get his team ahead in a GF he'd obviously put a bit more focus on it.

I just think sometimes max needs to do better with his kicking not only for goal but in the field to. He's been in the game long enough now to be better.

We saw what he did in 21, so we know he can do it

This is so fixable. Some coaching and confidence building. Whatever we are currently doing isn't working.

Perhaps a 45 (or 60 degree triangle (at its apex) with its apex placed in the middle of the goals extending 40 metres out where its based is drawn.

If you miss at training then there has to be some meaningful penalty (perhaps 6 shots in row before you can leave the field, anything really). Also defines the area for leads for the forwards. Inside this area no round the corner set shots. Everyone given a set routine. No ball spinning. as weird as it was Big BB long run seemed to be pretty good for him.

7 hours ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

The thing I want to know is what type of conditions are they practicing their goal kicking each week? Is it just an end of training add-on that they have a bit of a giggle and fun, or is it a genuine part of our training regime.

As the old saying goes, you practice how you play, so if it isn't a serious focus then it's any wonder we are terrible at goal kicking.

There's a couple of things I would look to do if I was coaching goal kicking, specifically set shot kicking:

1. I would have a designated 30-40 min block focused on this. I would have players do multiple leads running back and forth to simulate the running in a game and then have them mark on the lead. I would then time them for the 30 seconds and have them focus on their breathing and routine prior to walking in to kick. The purpose of this is to simulate the level of running they would do in a game prior to having a set shot and enabling them to be better equipped for kicking goals under fatigue. The running could focus on each position, for example JVR could do 20-30 metres forward, back and then forward again. Whereas the mids could run say 100m from the back 50 to 35m out to simulate the scenarios they would often have in game.

2. I would consider changing the width of the goals for kicking practice, say 1-2 meters narrower to make the end target smaller. This would then force them to really get their kicking in training spot on and once they are in a game situation the goals would look bigger and easier to kick.

I feel like these are pretty simple things the coaches should be doing and if they aren't they should probably have a look at themselves, specifically Choco.

Excellent suggestions.

I'd also have set shot training with earbuds pumping crowd noises and other distractions.

If we could kick straight we’d be 7 & 5 not 5 & 7 & quite possibly made two more Grand finals

12 hours ago, Hatchman said:

So far this season I have only been wrong once predicting Max will miss from a set shot. It's so clear-cut, and not just the ball spinning and swinging when he walks in, but it is the little skip he does about 5 - 10 metres before before the man on the mark that guarantees he will miss. It shifts his balance and then he swings his leg to compensate. Happens every single time. The only time I got it wrong was when he was close enough that the ball snuck through.

We kicked 1 goal 12 in the second half. The saints kicked 5 goals 3

It's killing me watch this team right now. Goodwin has to do something, he can't talk his way out of this any more.

Yep 1.12

Our goal kicking is disgusting.

Practice makes perfect. Gotta get technique right and the only way to do that is through repetition. These players are paid to kick goals. They should practice for an hour each day at least. In the pressure of game day they can then fall back on that repetition.

1 hour ago, dees189227 said:

Max spoke about his goal kicking the other week on mmm & said his focus is more on his contested marking & kicking goals isn't the biggest focus.

He did say if he had the shot to win the game or if it was up to him to get his team ahead in a GF he'd obviously put a bit more focus on it.

I just think sometimes max needs to do better with his kicking not only for goal but in the field to. He's been in the game long enough now to be better.

We saw what he did in 21, so we know he can do it

OMG that is just so unprofessional.

He should approach shots at goal as vital every time. If he has the first shot at goal in a game and thinks it doesn’t matter and we lose by 4 points it is just as important as the last shot. I really cannot believe that our leader has this attitude. Explains a lot about our team and our club, if true.

1 hour ago, Robbie57 said:

This is so fixable. Some coaching and confidence building. Whatever we are currently doing isn't working.

Perhaps a 45 (or 60 degree triangle (at its apex) with its apex placed in the middle of the goals extending 40 metres out where its based is drawn.

If you miss at training then there has to be some meaningful penalty (perhaps 6 shots in row before you can leave the field, anything really). Also defines the area for leads for the forwards. Inside this area no round the corner set shots. Everyone given a set routine. No ball spinning. as weird as it was Big BB long run seemed to be pretty good for him.

I know it’s simplistic but why don’t they set markers at 25,35 and 45m then 3 cones at different angles at each distance. Then 3 on the run from each angle, one at each distance. No one leaves training till everyone has kicked at least 10 goals per round. This is the end of every training session. Film each player and then show them the vision. Teach, repetition, teach, repetition. We have to get better at this and practice is the only way.

Edited June 3Jun 3 by Roost it far

8 minutes ago, monoccular said:

OMG that is just so unprofessional.

He should approach shots at goal as vital every time. If he has the first shot at goal in a game and thinks it doesn’t matter and we lose by 4 points it is just as important as the last shot. I really cannot believe that our leader has this attitude. Explains a lot about our team and our club, if true.

Well, you know, if the Captain’s not too fussed either way…

We are stuck watching VFL standard games… again and again

9 hours ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

The thing I want to know is what type of conditions are they practicing their goal kicking each week? Is it just an end of training add-on that they have a bit of a giggle and fun, or is it a genuine part of our training regime.

As the old saying goes, you practice how you play, so if it isn't a serious focus then it's any wonder we are terrible at goal kicking.

There's a couple of things I would look to do if I was coaching goal kicking, specifically set shot kicking:

1. I would have a designated 30-40 min block focused on this. I would have players do multiple leads running back and forth to simulate the running in a game and then have them mark on the lead. I would then time them for the 30 seconds and have them focus on their breathing and routine prior to walking in to kick. The purpose of this is to simulate the level of running they would do in a game prior to having a set shot and enabling them to be better equipped for kicking goals under fatigue. The running could focus on each position, for example JVR could do 20-30 metres forward, back and then forward again. Whereas the mids could run say 100m from the back 50 to 35m out to simulate the scenarios they would often have in game.

2. I would consider changing the width of the goals for kicking practice, say 1-2 meters narrower to make the end target smaller. This would then force them to really get their kicking in training spot on and once they are in a game situation the goals would look bigger and easier to kick.

I feel like these are pretty simple things the coaches should be doing and if they aren't they should probably have a look at themselves, specifically Choco.

Hows about this for an idea. I know it wont work but end of the day its a way to create pressure without having crowds involved.

Every player contributes a % of their match payment every week so that we end up with a pool of about $10K a week (from 40 odd players it works out to be $50 for low earners up to about 300-400 for the higher earner). Host a goal kicking competition for the entire squad down at Casey. Have fun with the format. But the important this is the squad (and staff)can do just about anything to put off the kicking player falling short of physical abuse.

$5K goes to the end of year tally, $3K to the weekly winner, 1.5K to 2nd place and $500 for 3rd.

It's about a $100K pool at end of year. Distribute earnings for top 5. Could even get a sponsor to cover (but obviously need to consider Salary cap).

6 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

I’d set markets at 25,35 and 45m then 3 cones at different angles at each distance. Then 3 on the run from each angle, one at each distance. No one leaves training till everyone has kicked at least 10 goals per round. This is the end of every training session. Film each player and then show them the vision. Teach, repetition, teach, repetition.

I was chatting to @Superunknown about this the other day. Like golf putting practice, different distances different angles, structured, repetitive.

Every player should participate.

There should be a leaderboard for training that runs through the season.

Reward the most accurate set shot player at training at the end of the season.

Gamify it, make it competitive, fun, structured and track it.

Anyone could end up taking a set shot at the pointy end of a game, so everyone needs to be good at the skill and confident with their execution.

They're professionals. They should be spending a couple of extra hours doing it every week.

It smacks of laziness and sloppiness at the club. Dead set 1 goal 12.

What's the point of beating the pies this week when we drop a game like the one last weekend.

This is on the coaches first and foremost. Where's the structure for the players to refine THE fundamental skill of footy?

On 04/04/2025 at 05:59, The Jackson FIX said:

Surprised it isn’t a mandate on our players that they measure and step out their run in for a set shot like an opening bowler measures a run up. Too many times we push the ball wide because we end up too close to the man on the mark.

Absolutely one of the things in my manifesto!