Defensive forward - ANB’s replacement?

[DeeSpencer 26,276]

Nibbler played a lot of midfield in 2024 and Chandler and Kolt took over more of the high half forward duties.

I’d have those 2 and Viney spending more time forward as the main defensive two way running guys. And hopefully Spargo in contention too.

I still think Lindsay starts at half back competing for a game but if they are confident he can play wing from the get go that opens up opportunities to use Windsor as a half forward with spurts on ball. Or forward/wing with Langdon rotating forward.

C; Langdon Rivers Lindsay
HF: Viney JVR Windsor 
FF: Pickett AJ/Disco/Jeffo Fritsch 
Foll: Gawn Tracc Oliver 
Int: Langford Chandler Kolt

That’s a team that can create damage if they get the ball moved in quickly to space. Midfield rotations and depth to run and power a more spread out attacking game with more switching and dare off half back is the crucial factor tho. 

We packed in the more attacking plan last year because it was clear our midfield didn’t have the legs for it. 

[Roost it far 9,539]

2 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Nibbler played a lot of midfield in 2024 and Chandler and Kolt took over more of the high half forward duties.

I’d have those 2 and Viney spending more time forward as the main defensive two way running guys. And hopefully Spargo in contention too.

I still think Lindsay starts at half back competing for a game but if they are confident he can play wing from the get go that opens up opportunities to use Windsor as a half forward with spurts on ball. Or forward/wing with Langdon rotating forward.

C; Langdon Rivers Lindsay
HF: Viney JVR Windsor 
FF: Pickett AJ/Disco/Jeffo Fritsch 
Foll: Gawn Tracc Oliver 
Int: Langford Chandler Kolt

That’s a team that can create damage if they get the ball moved in quickly to space. Midfield rotations and depth to run and power a more spread out attacking game with more switching and dare off half back is the crucial factor tho. 

We packed in the more attacking plan last year because it was clear our midfield didn’t have the legs for it. 

I'd be surprised if Windsor played anywhere other than wing. Turner is miles ahead of Jefferson who's more miles ahead of AJ. Lindsay has HBF written all over him and I think we'll see Trac forward and Rivers in the middle more and more this year. Fingers crossed Petty plays back.

[DeeSpencer 26,276]

10 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

I don't see Rivers holding a full time spot in the midfield if Petracca, Oliver and Viney are all playing (and I prefer Rivers at half back anyway). Pickett needs to have minutes in the middle as well because he is elite in centre clearance. So I am not sure Langford will get that much time playing as an inside mid.

That all said, we need to find a way to replace ANB's transition running and pressure acts. While Langford should be good in these areas of the game, ANB was one of the best in the AFL and had completed 10 AFL preseasons.

Get ready to see Riv playing on ball because some of his footy down back last year was gross where as his midfield stuff was really good, he needs the challenge as is ready for it.

Any evidence Pickett is good in the middle? Averaged 1 centre clearance a game. He’ll keep getting chances in there but I expect he’ll rotate forward after the clearance as usual. 

Langford’s strengths should be overhead marking, clever running and footy smarts. He’ll help in transition running but hurt in pressure. He’s a competitor so should contribute but a 190cm+ teenage who tests slow just isn’t going to be a good pressure player. 

[Fat Tony 5,306]

9 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Nibbler played a lot of midfield in 2024 and Chandler and Kolt took over more of the high half forward duties.

I’d have those 2 and Viney spending more time forward as the main defensive two way running guys. And hopefully Spargo in contention too.

I still think Lindsay starts at half back competing for a game but if they are confident he can play wing from the get go that opens up opportunities to use Windsor as a half forward with spurts on ball. Or forward/wing with Langdon rotating forward.

C; Langdon Rivers Lindsay
HF: Viney JVR Windsor 
FF: Pickett AJ/Disco/Jeffo Fritsch 
Foll: Gawn Tracc Oliver 
Int: Langford Chandler Kolt

That’s a team that can create damage if they get the ball moved in quickly to space. Midfield rotations and depth to run and power a more spread out attacking game with more switching and dare off half back is the crucial factor tho. 

We packed in the more attacking plan last year because it was clear our midfield didn’t have the legs for it. 

This assumes Petty does not play in the forward line. (I know he is training back at the moment.) But if TMac is able to hold his spot and Petty regains power in his legs after a decent preseason, Petty could still be used as a forward.

I also think Rivers is more likely to start at half back if Viney, Petracca and Oliver are all playing.

[Fat Tony 5,306]

5 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Get ready to see Riv playing on ball because some of his footy down back last year was gross where as his midfield stuff was really good, he needs the challenge as is ready for it.

Any evidence Pickett is good in the middle? Averaged 1 centre clearance a game. He’ll keep getting chances in there but I expect he’ll rotate forward after the clearance as usual. 

Langford’s strengths should be overhead marking, clever running and footy smarts. He’ll help in transition running but hurt in pressure. He’s a competitor so should contribute but a 190cm+ teenage who tests slow just isn’t going to be a good pressure player. 

I thought Rivers ball use was better when at half back than in the midfield.

[DeeSpencer 26,276]

7 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

I'd be surprised if Windsor played anywhere other than wing. Turner is miles ahead of Jefferson who's more miles ahead of AJ. Lindsay has HBF written all over him and I think we'll see Trac forward and Rivers in the middle more and more this year. Fingers crossed Petty plays back.

We’re doing ourselves a disservice if Caleb is limited to the wing. For instance if a team has tight defensive wingers and sags a half back off he should be straight to half forward and fed the ball. 

Disco was a fun story in the back half of 2024 but I think there’s a bit of overrating if people expect him to be a walk up start. Jeffo’s probably still a ‘26 candidate after a handful of games in ‘25 but he could surprise. I don’t think they drafted AJ purely for depth, his mid year vfl form would’ve had him in the team! Heck, they picked Disco off a quarter of Casey v Frankston. We’ll see how that plays out.

I suspect Lindsay starts back but it McVee, Salem and Bowey have those spots locked they might look to use him elsewhere.

Petty is training back, although there’s a question of what happens if Lever, May and McDonald actually out play him!

 

[Tolstoys Nudge 1,874]

20 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

The first question is:  Do we need someone to play that role? 

Methinks not!  After all our game plan is changing, new players, new coaches etc.

YES

 

Gameplan adapting or not, its a major role and one that I think Sharp will likely play. Bowser moving to a Wing potentially also helps support as he's a great user, but Sharp also backs his footskills and Langford will also play a lot up fwd, some other players also ie Kolt are in mix, his running ahs already been a feature this pre-season..

[binman 44,533]

1 hour ago, Lucifers Hero said:

A good analysis.

A couple of points:

• The Bluey favours players that play the most games or play relatively injury free.  In any other season Petracca, Oliver and perhaps May and Lever would be higher up the board.  Bowey and Salem also missed a large part of the season for those reasons.
• The Crows pick 28 we gave away as steak knives to Ess in the pick 9 swap.
• We fought hard to get better than pick 44 for Bedford.  In the end we gave it away as steak knives in the Jackson trade.

I don't think many undervalue ANB's contribution.  But imv we don't need a player dedicated to his role: 

• We will still have defensive midfield/forward tactics but I see roles changing as our game plan and ball movement (hopefully) become more attacking (particularly from d50 to f50 where ANB does most of his work). 
• In the last few drafts we have added players with very good footy IQ and skilled in ball movement (McVee, Windsor and maybe Langford/Johnson). 
• Other players eg Sparrow can protect the paths forward for Petracca etc. 
• Our not so little dynamo Kolt, will dish out a fair amount of defensiveness and get in the face of ops. 
• With a change of ideas from new coaches ANB's role won't be obsolete but I don't think we need to tie down one player for it. 

On the bluey, sure it favors players that play the most games or play relatively injury free. That is true  to a greater or lesser extent of all such awards.

But this year nibbla finished ahead of a number of players few would describe as ordinary footballers who played a comparable number of games - langers, tmac and Windsor being three such examples. The same is true in 2023 and 2022.

On pick 28, that was his market value, regardless of what we ended up using it for (though if using it to help land Francis, the steak knives must be Victroinox).

I agree we could use several players to cover the role nibbla played - and we may well do so. 

But the high half forward role is now one used by most club - with many clubs having two high half forwards each week.

A defined role in the way the wing is a defined role. 

No one is talking about us eschewing using wingers . Why would they - it's widely recognised now to be a key role (and wasn't a fee years back).

All team defensive systems only works when players cover the whole ground.

The HFF and winger positions are critical to a team's ability to cover the whole ground.

So  I think the most likely scenario is, if we can, we will employ at least one pure high half forward, ie cover nibblas role.

To do so i think they'll use Chandler, with support from Spargo, maybe sharp and then spread from players such as kolt, langdon, bowey and Windsor.

On bowey, he could be a wild card. Had the aerobic capacity, obviously the defensive chops and would be an upgrade on nibbler in terms of foot skills

I'm in full agreement that we have the players to cover Nibbla, however we choose to do so. 

And I also agree covering nibblas leadership in the forward line will be a bigger challenge.

JVR had said he aims to be a leader, hopefully he steps up. And I reckon Turner has the potential to be a leader down forward too.

And perhaps there's an opportunity for koz to become more of a leader.

[tiers 2,875]

Leave Windsor alone. He showed last season that he could be the winger that we dream of. Like Langdon, he covers the whole length of the ground. Why compromise his best position to try and make him something else.

GO CALEB. GO DEES.

[rpfc 28,906]

1 hour ago, Roost it far said:

I'd be surprised if Windsor played anywhere other than wing. Turner is miles ahead of Jefferson who's more miles ahead of AJ. Lindsay has HBF written all over him and I think we'll see Trac forward and Rivers in the middle more and more this year. Fingers crossed Petty plays back.

Jefferson is ‘miles ahead of AJ’…

One is a proven VFL player trying to step up to AFL. The other is a kid that is trying to step up to VFL.

People are too worried about how someone enters the AFL system. 

James Magner had a better career than Jordan Gysberts even though Jordan was ND11.

[BAMF 4,433]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Disco was a fun story in the back half of 2024 but I think there’s a bit of overrating if people expect him to be a walk up start. Jeffo’s probably still a ‘26 candidate after a handful of games in ‘25 but he could surprise. I don’t think they drafted AJ purely for depth, his mid year vfl form would’ve had him in the team! Heck, they picked Disco off a quarter of Casey v Frankston. We’ll see how that plays out.

I certainly think Disco will be a permanent best 23 player and that will be in the forward line. 

I'm hoping that a full preseason and Discos natural progression as a 22 year old will see him kick 25 - 30 goals.

I'm not expecting him to turn into Tony Lockett in one preseason.

[DeeSpencer 26,276]

1 hour ago, rpfc said:

Jefferson is ‘miles ahead of AJ’…

One is a proven VFL player trying to step up to AFL. The other is a kid that is trying to step up to VFL.

People are too worried about how someone enters the AFL system. 

James Magner had a better career than Jordan Gysberts even though Jordan was ND11.

Jeffo 3rd in the B+F in an ordinary Casey team. AJ 7th in a premiership team where the top 4 probably all would’ve won Casey’s B+F.

Jeffo less consistent because of his role and age. I’d say both are probably around a similar mark going in to preseason. Jeffo has the advantage of more time in the system, the potential quicker development of youth but is still a few years away from his physical prime.

AJ has the advantage of becoming professional for the first time and a mature body.

Probably hard to split it but I favour the guy who will have the mature body and might be set for a defined role.

[58er 6,816]

2 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

I look at our best 23 from last year and we have essentially lost ANB and gained Langford (and maybe Lindsay) into the side. With ANB gone, we lost a lot of transition running and pressure acts, but with Langford arriving we potentially added a better kick and better mark in the forward line. So the ANB replacement will be Langford.

I don't see Rivers holding a full time spot in the midfield if Petracca, Oliver and Viney are all playing (and I prefer Rivers at half back anyway). Pickett needs to have minutes in the middle as well because he is elite in centre clearance. So I am not sure Langford will get that much time playing as an inside mid.

That all said, we need to find a way to replace ANB's transition running and pressure acts. While Langford should be good in these areas of the game, ANB was one of the best in the AFL and had completed 10 AFL preseasons. I think the best solution is to play one less forward target (Fritsch and only two of Petty, Turner and JVR). Petracca and Langford (and maybe Melksham) can play minutes as another hybrid tall target/small.

 

No solution given except play ABAndC. The reason Riv is being introduced into our mis is that he is quicker and can play more outside and running. 

I don’t think it’s robbing a flanker so our half backs can evolve into AFL standard in McVee Salem AMW  Bowey Howes and possibly Xavier Lindsay who like Hayden Young has blossomed at Freo. 

Potential improvement in those half backs given injury free runs. 

 

[Gawndog98 364]

I don’t think there’s one simple fix, I think it needs to be a blend of our gameplay needs to adapt with more attacking flair, as a team they need cover defensively to make up for ANB, and obviously ANB has left the club someone does need to step into the defensive mid role (I consider the role a defensive mid as that what it was rolling into the midfield when trac rolling forward). 
 

I do think Riv is a permanent mid will help cover as he is defensively sound, he can be accountable defensively and provide that attacking flair at the same time, you could make an argument he takes ANB spot where he starts at half forward but then plays as a permanent extra mid, a modified version of ANB role where we always have an extra mid around stoppages. I think Riv though takes Gus’ old role that 4th mid who does everything (defence & offence, inside & outside) which I actually think having Trac, Clarry, Viney there with him will be great for his development as a mid as he gets to be more of a supportive role rather than needing to do everything himself which is when it felt like he tailed off as a mid end of last year.

ANB’s role needs to be taken by someone who can play as a mid as it’s a lot of important work around stoppages. I think Kolt is being groomed to take ANB’s spot as he has that sacrifice for the team mentality and ability required to fulfill it. Whilst he won’t have the same running capacity next year as ANB, he does have more x-factor which allows for that attacking flair. Sparrow is the other one I think who could do it but I don’t see him being in the best 22 if Langford (and Kolt) are going to play. I don’t think all 3 of Kolt, Langford, and Sparrow can all play in the same forward line, for me sparrow will be a clear 3rd choice out of those 3.

My midfield and hf mix would be:

C: Langdon, Clarry, Windsor

R: Max, Trac, Viney

HF: Kolt (defensive HFF), JVR, Langford (attacking HFF)

I: Riv (4th mid)

 

[DeeSpencer 26,276]

25 minutes ago, BAMF said:

I certainly think Disco will be a permanent best 23 player and that will be in the forward line. 

I'm hoping that a full preseason and Discos natural progression as a 22 year old will see him kick 25 - 30 goals.

I'm not expecting him to turn into Tony Lockett in one preseason.

If he has a full summer I expect him to be around the mark but there’s a lot of unknowns and options. I think he has to bring defensive pressure and/or the ability to find the footy leading up to the wings to really establish himself as a lock. Could easily happen. But the sample size is still low. I saw enough to be positive but I’m not quite convinced yet. 

[DeeSpencer 26,276]

1 hour ago, tiers said:

Leave Windsor alone. He showed last season that he could be the winger that we dream of. Like Langdon, he covers the whole length of the ground. Why compromise his best position to try and make him something else.

GO CALEB. GO DEES.

I dream of footballers not wingers. Langdon is a really good winger. Caleb could do that and more. 

Go Caleb? Go Dees?

[Colm 2,190]

I think both the role and who plays it will change over the course of the season as we get familiar with a new game style and some new faces.
I’m pretty sure that Goody said last year that nearly all the players train to play more than one position. So players I think that will put some training into a ANB type role are Langdon, Sharpe and the Kolt. 
Langers putting time into learning how to play the role during preseason probably makes the most sense as he has nothing to learn about playing wing at this stage. 
Give Sharpe at shot at proving he can replace Langers on the wing and play Windsor on the other. Everything will need to be flexible and interchangeable until we work out our system and best 22. 

[Deemania since 56 6,763]

On 24/11/2024 at 13:12, Left Foot Snap said:

I think Woey would develop well into the role. Would love to see him given a crack at it.

Yet another budding prospect for such roles.

[spirit of norm smith 16,615]

On 24/11/2024 at 13:44, The Jackson FIX said:

Had read in one of the training reports that Bowey had shared he’d be training up on the wing 

Strange ?  Windsor and Langdon already got wing covered !!! 

[monoccular 17,642]

On 24/11/2024 at 13:42, Left Foot Snap said:

I think Woey would develop well into the role. Would love to see him given a crack at it.

Cant see, currently, that he has the tank of ANB, but then few have. Chin may be close. 

On 24/11/2024 at 14:44, The Jackson FIX said:

Had read in one of the training reports that Bowey had shared he’d be training up on the wing 

✅

[Sir Why You Little 37,308]

A Player who can run hard all day, up and down the ground never goes out of fashion, regardless of Gamestyle 

We will miss ANB, because he was always in the team, now he is not 

This Summer i hope we can find a replacement, at this stage it is to hard to say who it will be. 
I hope the Footy Department are working to find a young player with serious endurance who can grow into the role

[Gator 17,972]

13 hours ago, binman said:

We obviously have very differing opinions about nibbla's ability gator

Opinions are obviously subjective, and when it comes to assessing talent of footballers will vary from person to person based on their own assessment criteria.

But whilst we won't agree on our personal assessments, we can agree on agreed facts that provide some measure of objective data to inform an objective assessment of nibbla's talent.

It is difficult to argue nibblas record in the bluey supports an opinion that nibbla is an ordinary player.

Nibbla's record in the bluey in his last three seasons is 9th, 6th and 3rd.

If someone was looking to downplay the significance of that record they might point to the strange voting system that probably favors players who play assigned roles.

That's not unreasonable, but it points to the importance of the role nibbla played and his ability to execute.

And it's worth noting in that context that arguably the most comparable player in terms of playing a similar role (and in fact in a number of other ways) is langers. 

Nibbla finished ahead of langdon in all three seasons

But even if someone argued the bluey is not a great guide to ability, third is impressive by any measure.

The rest of the top ten were, in order, koz, langers (who had his best season since 2021), Rivers, Mcvee, Chandler, May and tmac.

That's to say nibbla finished ahead of some very good players. That doesn't happen by accident. Nor is it a case like bates finishing high in the bluey because we had a team full of plodders. Not many players in the 160 year history of the club can claim a third place in the bluey.

Leaving aside the bluey, we have an even better objective data point - how the AFL 'market' rates Nibbla. 

The crows just gave us pick 28 for him. Perhaps some might argue the crows were prepared to pay overs to fill a need, but if true  it again just reinforces the importance of the role he plays in modern footy.

But really, does an AFL club give up pick 28 for an 'ordinary' player, one who is 28 and has 150 odd games of exposed form? Even if they really need to fill a role? I don't think so.

Objectively, nibbla is worth pick 28 in this year's draft. That is a fact

Again, langers provides an excellent comparison.

Both players were late draft picks in 2014, both play a similar role and both player's one wood is their elite athleticism

And both were traded to other clubs.

The market valuation of langers was pick 22, 79 and a future second round selection. In return to we got Langdon, pick 26 and a future fourth round pick.

Hard to line all that up, but hard to argue a straight 28 doesn't suggest the market valued nibbla higher than Langdon.

And there a couple of other relevant comparisons in terms of the market vue of players with similar strengths and attributes.

We traded Bedford for pick 44.

And this year we traded in Sharp. For sharp, the lions received pick 49 and a future third-round pick.

The industry, full time professional football people, cleary rate nibbla as much, much better than an ordinary footballer who will be easy to replace.

Dem the objective facts.

All that said, i wish nibbla luck but he is no longer a demon. Time for me to move on.

I'm not privvy to all club's B&F voting systems, but if there's one worse than Melbourne's I'd be surprised.

It heavily favours games played and Neale-Bullen was one of 6 players to play every game.

He could have won the thing and it wouldn't change my opinion of him.  But yeah, he had a good year and since 2021 has been adequate.  Is he a good ordinary player in Jack Dyer parlance ?  Debatable.  I'm not sure Jack would have been that bullish on the bloke.

As for his trade value ?  I thought he was a high 30s pick.  But I agree he's worth what someone will pay.  It can change from year to year and will depend on needs and circumstances.

Caleb Daniel, who was barely best 23 at the Dogs, was traded for pick 25.  I store little weight in that argument.

I'm happy to end the discussion as I'm no longer interested in writing reams, especially for players of Neale-Bullen's calibre.

[58er 6,816]

18 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Nibbler played a lot of midfield in 2024 and Chandler and Kolt took over more of the high half forward duties.

I’d have those 2 and Viney spending more time forward as the main defensive two way running guys. And hopefully Spargo in contention too.

I still think Lindsay starts at half back competing for a game but if they are confident he can play wing from the get go that opens up opportunities to use Windsor as a half forward with spurts on ball. Or forward/wing with Langdon rotating forward.

C; Langdon Rivers Lindsay
HF: Viney JVR Windsor 
FF: Pickett AJ/Disco/Jeffo Fritsch 
Foll: Gawn Tracc Oliver 
Int: Langford Chandler Kolt

That’s a team that can create damage if they get the ball moved in quickly to space. Midfield rotations and depth to run and power a more spread out attacking game with more switching and dare off half back is the crucial factor tho. 

We packed in the more attacking plan last year because it was clear our midfield didn’t have the legs for it. 

The spot for Windsor is in the centre where his running and class plus goal kicking potential would transfer along with Lindsay on the wing perhaps Sharp on the HFF our attack with Kossie Fritta JVR Turner ; not sure Petts will play forward and Petracca and Langford (all class both of them) our goal kicking  potential is much higher with a better system devised by Chaplin also. 
Chandler McAdam ( if fit) .Petty and Bowey may provide extra depth on occasions. 

Even Newboy Johnson might develop his craft for a role  at CHF or FF to provide ballast and physical strength enabling the smalls to shine.

Also Lingers and Rivers will be dangerous either from sneaking down or long range to add even more scoring power. No rest for the defenders if all these parts and different role players are floating around. Room for Gawny as well!! 

Should be happy forward days ahead if our system is strong, mobile and fast paced. 

[58er 6,816]

6 minutes ago, 58er said:

The spot for Windsor is in the centre where his running and class plus goal kicking potential would transfer along with Lindsay on the wing perhaps Sharp on the HFF our attack with Kossie Fritta JVR Turner ; not sure Petts will play forward and Petracca and Langford (all class both of them) our goal kicking  potential is much higher with a better system devised by Chaplin also. 
Chandler McAdam ( if fit) .Petty and Bowey may provide extra depth on occasions. 

Even Newboy Johnson might develop his craft for a role  at CHF or FF to provide ballast and physical strength enabling the smalls to shine.

Also Lingers and Rivers will be dangerous either from sneaking down or long range to add even more scoring power. No rest for the defenders if all these parts and different role players are floating around. Room for Gawny as well!! 

Should be happy forward days ahead if our system is strong, mobile and fast paced. 

And that does not include Kolt or Jeffo who I overlooked.

Boy we would have to stuff things up badly for this lot not to be a vast improvement on our goal scoring of the last three years. This group has Finals potential written all over it. 
Please challenge my positivity.

[MrFreeze 2,038]

12 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Strange ?  Windsor and Langdon already got wing covered !!! 

Windsor was splitting wing time with Billings often during the year