POSTGAME: Rd 20 vs GWS

[WheeloRatings 1,163]

 

[ANG13 2,054]

One thing that is really starting to do my head in is how often in particular our forwards but this also happens around the ground. Is how often a player gets too close to the player on the mark when kicking. How are the coaches letting this repeatedly happening, it’s just basic stuff but costing us goals. We also are regularly to slow at getting back off the mark around the ground and that just increases our turnovers. It does my head in. 
 

List management this off season is going to be crazy important.  Get it right and I think we can challenge again in the not too distant future get it wrong and we could be drifting further down the ladder back into obscurity. 

[dees189227 12,361]

How come may didn't get moved onto hogan?

Also I wish kozzie went into that final centre bounce. May had been different 

[Young Angus 768]

Thought Petty was better than usual, maybe because he signed on.  Still lopes around like a much older man with crippling arthritis I just don't get it how he is 24 years old.  Glad we kept him though.

This year is done, no point making finals anyway just let's not get anyone injured trying.  Excited for next year though with the kids and better pre-seasons for guys like Oliver and McAdam let alone Jeffo and the kids.  Let's get a good draft pick and play more consistently for a whole game hey!

[BDA 22,689]

8 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

He (Fritsch) started on the bench tonight, surely that's a message. Someone mentioned he was close to getting dropped after the North game and seemed to put in for a couple of weeks but tonight was back to his worst in that regard

He made the most pathetic defensive chase I've ever seen in the last quarter. game on the line. he just jogged a couple of steps. let the giants player waltz away. Totally unacceptable.

He's a great forward for us but i can't abide such a lack of effort. A message needs to be sent.

[Oxdee 337]

10 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

It was obvious how we cleared out the space … then Tom Green knew it and CLARRY WAS ASLEEP. Clarry not the contested player that he was. Green beat him to the footy on many occasions.  

Clarry had 13 contested possessions. Probably his best game of the year. You do realise he doesn’t have superpowers? 

[Redleg 40,775]

7 hours ago, Dusty_Hill said:

100%. So sick of their non calls. Especially two which directly cost us goals. 
Plus, the hopeless morning of the man in the mark this year. Our guys are more disciplined or not as smart, but I notice the oppo generally step a few steps past where the guy marked it and are rarely called back. 
Plus that goal the last quarter when the umpire called stand and Toby moved off the mark before the umpire called play on for Tmac and they got a goal. Terrible officiating. But totally normal. 
For once it worked for us though! Better start pick. 

In the Bombers game Kozzie got a 50 for stepping over the mark, when the mark wasn even set and the umpire hadn’t yet called stand resulting in a Bombers gift goal. Have seen that 20 times since in suffer without penalty.

Last night Kozzie gets grabbed in goal square without ball and play on and then Toby Greene blatantly ducks and gets charity goal. We lose by 2 points.

Against Lions, Rivers loses a goal for running too far, actually 13 steps and we lose by 5 points. Have not seen a goal reversed for that in a few years.

It is hard to take when controversial goals lose you the game and we have had it several times this year, with Carlton 1 point loss another, after Kozzie goal reversed incorrectly for a dangerous tackle, that was actually Kemp staging after he stopped the ball.

Not once this year has it given us a win, which is the only consistency.

[ElDiablo14 4,990]

10 hours ago, MurDoc516 said:

Positives: A better first rounder.

Negatives: We are a long way off anything close to a team that can contend (and i'm not just talking about this year).

I think we are not, from a list point of view.

We may need to tweak the way we play, but at least we can use the rest of this season and the pre season as a solid platform to be ready for 2025.

We still have a good core with Max, Petracca, May, Lever, Oliver (if fit), Viney, Fritsch.

It was also a pleasant surprise to see TMac and Milkshake rising up like a phoenix. Surely they can go again for one last season.

And what's more exciting about this year, our group of young guns who are coming of age and will be the corner stone for the future of the club:

McVee

Windsor

JVR 

Kolt

Rivers

Kozzy

Turner

But we definitely need to maximise this coming draft and trade season. A couple of veteran players and some more young talent that would make us a top 8 team again.

[ElDiablo14 4,990]

12 minutes ago, ANG13 said:

One thing that is really starting to do my head in is how often in particular our forwards but this also happens around the ground. Is how often a player gets too close to the player on the mark when kicking. How are the coaches letting this repeatedly happening, it’s just basic stuff but costing us goals. We also are regularly to slow at getting back off the mark around the ground and that just increases our turnovers. It does my head in. 
 

List management this off season is going to be crazy important.  Get it right and I think we can challenge again in the not too distant future get it wrong and we could be drifting further down the ladder back into obscurity. 

We need a decent KPF to play alongside JVR. Petty should go back to where he is best ... the backline.

We need to improve our midfield depth.

And we need a competent back up ruck.

I am not sure yet how to use the top 6 pick we are probably going to get in the draft.

[Dee*ceiving 1,662]

20 minutes ago, Redleg said:

In the Bombers game Kozzie got a 50 for stepping over the mark, when the mark wasn even set and the umpire hadn’t yet called stand resulting in a Bombers gift goal. Have seen that 20 times since in suffer without penalty.

Last night Kozzie gets grabbed in goal square without ball and play on and then Toby Greene blatantly ducks and gets charity goal. We lose by 2 points.

Against Lions, Rivers loses a goal for running too far, actually 13 steps and we lose by 5 points. Have not seen a goal reversed for that in a few years.

It is hard to take when controversial goals lose you the game and we have had it several times this year, with Carlton 1 point loss another, after Kozzie goal reversed incorrectly for a dangerous tackle, that was actually Kemp staging after he stopped the ball.

Not once this year has it given us a win, which is the only consistency.

💯 

Definitely should've been a free kick to Koz in the goal square Q1. 

Plus definitely two 50m penalties not paid to us (Petty and TMac). One would have been a goal to us the other resulted in a goal for them. 

Plus May push in the back Q4. 

Read Ivan Munro's Between the Flags. If you're not already that convinced of headquarters long running apathy and not so subtle thumb on the forehead of the Redlegs you will be. 

We are still paying the price for the advantages of being the only MCG tenant for ~70 years (and perhaps the behaviours of the club and it's supporters in the 50s and 60s). 

[titan_uranus 24,963]

8 hours ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Reasons why we lost:
1. Switched off after quarter time thinking the game was wrapped up. Took us another 2Q to wrestle back some involvement
2. Outworked around the contest again. GWS dominated the stoppage >> post stoppage. Its a real concern now for Goody as this was a repeat of last week
3. Umpires did actually cost us 2-3 goals from dodgy frees or non-frees in our d50. 
4. Our ball movement is terrible. Made more terrible by lack of movement ahead of the ball. Again real concerning here - too many passengers.

Reasons for these reasons:

1. Players lack the hunger and drive -> has Goody really lost htem
2. On Field leadership is failing to inspire a kick into gear
3. Senior players are failing to impose themselves. 

Lots and lots to work on in the off season and some big list decisions. Its going to take a lot to rebound next year. Its not just getting a pre-season into Melksham, Oliver, Trac and Petty. Its what do we do with our bottom 6 - they are just simply not afl material. 

 

I agree with points 3 and 4 but not 1 and 2. At no stage did it look like our effort waned (except when Fritsch wouldn’t man up in the last few minutes).

This was all on our skill, not our effort. We tried more than hard enough. We just cannot execute the fundamentals for long enough under pressure. 

I think your comment about Goodwin is probably as far away from the truth as Fritsch was from manning up on someone last night. 

[3183 Dee 2,841]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Bailey Laurie has to stay in the side for the rest of the year.

He played midfield and I thought he was actually decent. His clean hands in the wet stood out and there's something there to work with from a midfield perspective. 

19 disposals, 3 tackles 10 contested possessions, only the 2 turnovers for the game and 24 pressure acts.

I agree - he clearly has ability, otherwise why would his contract be extended? He hasn’t particularly shone in his senior outings to date, but should be given these next few games to get some time under his belt.

[Engorged Onion 10,199]

11 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

This was all on our skill, not our effort. We tried more than hard enough. We just cannot execute the fundamentals for long enough under pressure. 

This is the reasons EVERY team loses. I know you know this :)

And for those that are unclear - and use this as THE reason to make sense of it to blame the FD or the athletes - this has happened to every single team, every single season.

What's with some supporters disconnect with understanding how fine the margins are to winning and losing, within each club within the competition that is designed to be  equal (forgetting the draw,) and then the outrage towards players the the FD - that occurs when we lose, it's seriously [censored].

Aside from being Freo's bunnies - > we're a team that has had a lot of adversity this year, a lot - and had to patch things up on the fly...and have been quite valiant and shown lot of resilience considering the context of injuries and other missing athletes.

It's as if this knowledge evaporates to some people when focusing on single game outcomes, and is such a shallow binary analysis.

Still, from a club perspective - I'd rather be us than Essendon at least... 😎

Edited July 27 by Engorged Onion

[Storm Boy 374]

7 hours ago, Gawndy the Great said:

I’m worried for 2025 and beyond. 

Yes, I'm very worried about 2025 as well. Firstly I'm stressed about our list profile and List Management. Gawn 32 years old, May 32 years old, Melksham 32 years old, McDonald 31 years old, Ben Brown 31 years. Viney and Tomlinson both 30 years old. We are heading towards the edge of the cliff and it doesn't look good at all. 

Woewodin, Sparrow and Bowey have all gone backwards in development this year. I'll put my hand up and say we should trade our first rounder in 2025 to get another midfielder in this year's draft. However there is so much risks associated with it. 

We didn't have a ready made ruckman to replace Max Gawn when he got injured this year. I'm not trying to poke the bear but maybe it's time we need another new set of eyes and Tim Lamb should go. There are some positives however the negatives outweigh the positives. 

Christian Salem can't get his body right since the 2021 premiership. We should be worried about next season, but I hope I'm wrong and we do make Finals in 2025. 

[Dee Viney Intervention 1,913]

We allow way too much uncontested ball and have done so all year.That first quarter was outstanding, we won clearance but around the ground we hunted the ball. If they were in possession there was manic pressure at the source forcing the turnover. 
 Then from second quarter we start to sag off and play the zone. The zone absolutely has a place and I understand that 4 quarters of manic pressure at the source is hard to sustain but when a team gets a bit of a run on is it that hard to switch modes and lock on and go a hard one on one all over the game to slow that momentum down. We want to be a contest and defence team so make it ugly for a period, lock on all over the ground and have repeat stoppage to deny the opposition the momentum.
 You cannot allow a team chock full of elite kicks the ability to chip the ball around and constantly pierce your zone. Highlighted by the fact that when chasing a game of football and the Giants go into save game mode we still guard grass. 
I don’t know if it’s coaching or leadership of a combination of both but there to be better awareness of the situation. 
 

Edited July 28 by Dee Viney Intervention

[drdrake 3,151]

10 hours ago, Stevienic23 said:

Can we get our forwards on the Jesse Hogan gym program? He is a unit

Can we get some players with skills, we are forced to play slow predictable football due to our poor skill execution.  The game requires high level of skill especially kicking, we just don't have many players that are constantly good by foot

[Trisul 664]

9 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

He (Fritsch) started on the bench tonight, surely that's a message. Someone mentioned he was close to getting dropped after the North game and seemed to put in for a couple of weeks but tonight was back to his worst in that regard. People overlook it when he bobs up and kicks 3 goals in 5 minutes but when you're not impacting the scoreboard enough it stands out like dogs balls.

It could be, but I don't believe so.  From one of either my memory or imagination I believe Fritta has started on the bench numerous times.

[Redleg 40,775]

3 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Bailey Laurie has to stay in the side for the rest of the year.

He played midfield and I thought he was actually decent. His clean hands in the wet stood out and there's something there to work with from a midfield perspective. 

19 disposals, 3 tackles 10 contested possessions, only the 2 turnovers for the game and 24 pressure acts.

I am not a fan of Bill, but agree with your post. He was ok yesterday and deserves a run at it to build confidence and a sense of belonging. He could be another mid that we so desperately need more of. He is already our player so let’s see what he has.

Edited July 28 by Redleg

[Wrecker46 2,956]

9 hours ago, Bowserpower said:

When you play nearly 20 games, yes it is.

There is a misconception that Oliver's lack of preseason is the problem (despite being our best tonight without having Trac to take some of the load)

It has hindered him and he hasn't gone about it like the greatest MFC player of the modern era normally does but it's the hand.

We focused on the premiership window and Oliver was a key piece of that. He was playing when he shouldn't have.

I've personally had surgery on my hand after a footballing injury and it cripples you. 

Oliver has had surgery on both shoulders and we got that right, they don't pop out anymore. Let's hope we haven't bungled his hand becase that would be a travesty.

 

[Dee*ceiving 1,662]

Bill should get a run of games and might do ok but won't help our midfield balance. We are already one paced at the contest.  

For mine Sparrow is the superior footballer, bigger, faster, longer kick and proven to be a handy mark but just hasn't been himself this year.  Hopefully some time and Casey and a decent preseason will see him back to form. 

[The heart beats true 18,084]

The reality of this season is our inability to maintain effort at the required level to execute our game plan. It was so obvious at the ground last night. This is all down to midfield. No Petracca, no Brayshaw, Oliver down on output, Viney down on output, Gawn clearly not 100%. 

I think the club is doing the right thing with Rivers. He’ll become the new Gus. Oliver tried incredibly hard last night but he’s exhausted 5 minutes into quarters. A real preseason will be the best thing for him. Get Tracc back and playing midfield - I think forward will be too hard psychologically in 2025.

I still think we need someone else to come into our midfield mix to make it more sustainable. Sparrow hasn’t come on at all, and I expect the club will play Laurie for the rest of the season to really give him a proper understanding of the level.

I feel like this year is a wash. Not much has gone right. I think the most important thing we can do is get a player in to bolster the mids, and focus on improving what we have. A lot of our players simply haven’t improved enough to cover the losses and improve the team. It’s a big preseason coming up for a lot of guys on our list, because if 2025 goes the same way I know JT will be pushing hard for the draft capital to bring in 3-4 at once, like 2019.

[Demonsone 2,029]

10 hours ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

McQualter has added absolutely f all to our Coaching staff.

Goody needs a new team around him, starting to become very stale.

Goodwin in his presser said we lost clearance 8-0 in the last qtr who’s responsible for this as this has been a theme all season, our inability to also hold the ball in our fwd 50!

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

11 hours ago, Doug Reemer said:

OUR SUPPORTER BASE IS WEAK AS [censored].

16k crowd announcement is staff included.

If you didn’t go tonight its because you probably signed up in the middle of may 2021z 

I am a 20 plus year member and didn't turn up tonight for a few reasons,

Stuff the AFL and their money lust, i generally hate everything they've done with the game from the loud continues noise, to the blatant money gouging, I also have better things to do than watching us butcher the ball and opportunities, and the weather was [censored]. 

In saying all of that i actually was surprised they got as close as they did and was close to turing it off and watching the Olympics at 3qtr time (go Boomers), its been very clear to me this is not a decent side, let alone a finals side.

Edited July 28 by Cheap Seats

[RedBlueandTrue 359]

It was very sad to not win. Was absolutely gutted afterwards. 

In the light of day though I'm still proud of the performance. GWS were far from full strength but still have a lot of class and grit. 

It was great to see Oli playing with some more confidence and skill in the first half, but unfortunately spent most of his tickets. 

I didn't expect to win and they had a really good crack.  

Unfortunate reality is that in Brayshaw, Petracca, Salem, Tommo, Hunter, McAdam, Spargo, Smith and Brown a large chunk of our salary cap has been  unavailable or inefficiently utilised this season. Another chunk is clearly hampered without a fitness base. 

Call it bad list management or bad luck, it's the reality and has made it virtually impossible to play at the required level consistently. I think we've taken necessary calculated risks that for most of the last 3 years have paid off but this year we have clearly been off the pace from a talent perspective.

This has given some opportunity to younger players who have shown a lot of promise, but are still young. I am super excited about what this group can do and will be very interested this off-season. 

Love my Dees. The journey continues! 

[Adam The God 30,026]

2 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Bailey Laurie has to stay in the side for the rest of the year.

He played midfield and I thought he was actually decent. His clean hands in the wet stood out and there's something there to work with from a midfield perspective. 

19 disposals, 3 tackles 10 contested possessions, only the 2 turnovers for the game and 24 pressure acts.

Yep, he was good. And we have to give him some continuity. Team high score involvements too.