Thanks for the podcast, gents (to save time, please see my earlier accolades). I was at the 'G for the Collingwood and North games and there was very little in either game to lift the spirits. We show no sign of team cohesion or understanding between the players. We rarely can string more than three possessions together before turning the ball over, usually with a long bomb to a crowded, static forward line. The poor field kicking and handballing breaks my heart, with chance after chance being wasted by poor ball control. It's like most of the players - not just Clarry - have lost their confidence. Given the way we are playing and the skills we are displaying, I fear that the North game might be our last win for the year. OK, we have Lever and Tracc out, and Hunter, but we look like a VFL team - to quote the words of a Channel Nine cameraman: "Can't kick, can't catch."  We couldn't beat an egg at the moment. It's so puzzling. George, can you tell us where is the team that beat Port and the Crows in successive games and brought Geelong's seven-game streak to an end?

Goalkicking: obviously we still have plenty of issues with the delivery inside 50, however once we took marks and had shots on, our accuracy was much better. Questions, did you notice a change in our goal kicking techniques? It seemed like everyone had a slightly better technique this week and in some cases, longer run ups. Maybe Big Ben Brown has been coaching the forwards as he is nowhere to be seen anywhere else. Love the pod, keep it up! 

My deelusional positivity on that last quarter is that: We won and we didn't expend any unnecessary energy to maintain a 30 point win or increase it to 60. Look around the comp: Every team is building a lead and then defending it. Noticing a hell of a lot of "come backs" this year. How rare were they 5 years ago? This tells you just how much energy you expend to get a 5+ goal lead with the 2024 running game. You've got nothing left and the opposition can then chip away it it. Seems like every game bar the odd blow out.

We play Brisbane on Friday and maybe that 4th quarter against North will hold us in good stead to put in a more energetic performance and have something left in the tank come the last if we're still in the game. Thoughts? 

Edited June 23, 2024Jun 23 by John Demonic

Hi guys, I’m huge fan of the podcast, so thank you so much for giving me something to look forward to every Monday (or in this case, Tuesday!)

I’d love your thoughts on something. On just about every forum I’ve checked since the game, I’ve seen a consistent narrative that this “didn’t feel like a win”, or “we didn’t deserve to win”. I’m still seeing the regular refrain of “sack Goodwin”, and phrases like “absolutely disgraceful”, “lack of effort” and “soft” getting thrown around.

I’m not sure I was watching the same game! I saw a much more cohesive team performance - the guys actually looking like they were enjoying themselves. I saw a solid spread of goalkickers and more of the accuracy we’ve all been (quite rightly) desperate for. I thought the vibes seemed much better and there seemed to be a real emphasis on celebrating each other’s achievements.
Seeing just about everyone get around Harry Petty after his goal was a highlight - I can only imagine he’s been having a really tough time with recovery and it was interesting to hear Maxy reference the criticism Petty has been copping from fans in his post-match interview.

I guess my question is, was it as bad as everyone is saying it was? And do you feel there is less virtue in hanging on for a win than grabbing it from the opposition’s clutches after coming from behind? I’m being a bit facetious but it does feel like that’s how this is being framed.

Either way, maybe I’m in denial but I thought there plenty of positives and was really proud of how we held on through a very spirited North performance. And absolutely no disrespect to the Roos either - I thought they came to play. 

Thanks guys!

PSYCHOLOGY

I loved the discussion on mentality and psychology from the last episode. The negativity in our beloved football club is self-evident on the field, for example the moment between Max and Maysie in the last quarter. But it's all over. The players look stressed and in their heads. I hope the club finds a way to change this or I fear this season is going to be like 2020.

Is part of the problem games at the MCG? This may sound like heresy, but the MFCSS is strong and I have often felt in the last 5 years while watching the Dees at the 'G that when a Melbourne player makes a mistake, there is an audible groan from the crowd. This has to have an effect on the players. Was part of the massive success of 2021, the fact that all the finals were played outside of Melbourne where most supporters were not overburdened with MFCSS? I remember from Maxy's book that the mental changes in the offseason going into 2021 were fundamental to the success in his mind.

Could the MFC faithful out there try and bite their tongues and see if anything improves? Or is the MFCSS too strong?

 

FORWARD LINE

Whatever the outcome of this season is, the footy department MUST find a solution to the forward line woes for the 2025 season. It was the problem in 2022, 2023 and part of the problem in 2024. It's the only significant long term problem we have (I'm still bullish on the midfield in terms of talent and experience) and the team can't continue to accept that.

9 hours ago, Jjrogan said:

Well whatever you think of stas imo I think its pretty clear what's going wrong statistically. We are getting murdered on turnovers. And that's unrelated to stoppage and clearance issues, which are secondary.   48 points this week, 61 against the pies, I think 90 against Freo.  You can see it happening every week and it's cringe worthy. 

We are moving the ball too fast by players that suck at kicking and decision making.  Rivers has to play middle for the rest of the year. He isn't elite but he's not an absolute butcher like the rest of them. 

Not to pile on Oliver but how ridiculous was his clearance kick from half back when he didn't even bother looking up the field when he was clear.  Goodwin and Max talks about learnings. Give it a spell I reckon,it's not that hard to learn to have a look. Happening for years now.  I get that he's frustrated but he's meant to be a senior player of the club.

Goodwin has to take some blame.  Every person watching could see Oliver being upset. Why not change it up, play him out of the goal square for 5 minutes. Maybe he kicks a goal and gets some confidence. Our midfield and structure isn't some sort of Jenga tower that's going to collapse if players are moved around but he acts like it is. 

 

Absolutely let Ollie get positive in the forward line and feel good about himself. One out even. 

Goody has got to throw the directions imaginatively and unless he does this there is no way we will make the Top8.

We have got to be aggressive to win and improve % as much as possible. 

Oliver had an interrupted pre season but people still claiming that he's underdone after 14 games doesn't gel. The guy used to be 'untaggable' and even when you sat someone on him he'd have 25 touches, now all of a sudden he gets a hard tag and looks human. 

I know he's been through a lot but if I was told in January that despite playing every game to this point we weren't going to have something even close to the Clarry of old and it would be a major cause of a slump, I wouldn't be too excited.

My question for tonight:

Why aren't we rewarding players who show obvious ticker? In the dying minutes ANB's smother and Brown's tackle were characteristic of these players, why do we persist in not rewarding someone like Taj Woewodin who displays these traits as well?

Edited June 23, 2024Jun 23 by layzie

52 minutes ago, layzie said:

Oliver had an interrupted pre season but people still claiming that he's underdone after 14 games doesn't gel. The guy used to be 'untaggable' and even when you sat someone on him he'd have 25 touches, now all of a sudden he gets a hard tag and looks human. 

I know he's been through a lot but if I was told in January that despite playing every game to this point we weren't going to have something even close to the Clarry of old and it would be a major cause of a slump, I wouldn't be too excited.

My question for tonight:

Why aren't we rewarding players who show obvious ticker? In the dying minutes ANB's smother and Brown's tackle were characteristic of these players, why do we persist in not rewarding someone like Taj Woewodin who displays these traits as well?

This...and I think the way Taj has been on and off the squad is now affecting his confidence, he's struggling at VFL when before he always looked a level above VFL.

It flying under the radar but are Dees completing a mini rebuild. Obviously losing Harmes; Jordan; Bedford was not great but was it a deliberate strategy to inject youth into the team. Maybe Dees are foregoing immediate wins for a longer term sustainable list. Players under 22 this week Bowey 21, McVee 20; Windsor 19, Tholstrup 18, Van Rooyen 21, Howes 21, Turner 22, Brown 19. That is a quarter of the team. In fact I think I am right in saying more under 22 than North. Maybe we need to be more realistic in our expectations and things are not as bleak as they seem. I think the worry is that our granite Gawny and Maysie don’t have a lot left.

Hi Guys ...thanks as always for the pod.  Demonland is fraying at the seams now but you three are still having balanced intelligent conversations! 

2 questions.

1./ A lot of talk now about Oliver. What strikes me most about him is he's lost his break away pace. He was never a great kick but he had  developed that burst speed and it's now almost nowhere to be seen.  Could it be that his hamstring is so damaged  that burst speed is impossible? or do you think is he still just too fatigued and its a fitness issue....he is being tagged after all. Im just struggling to see even 50% of the player we all loved. Do you think he can come back to be even close to the player he was in 24 or 25?

2./ Interesting to hear Gawn post game talk about how the new ruck rules have changed the craft. There's a lot more body use at centre bounces and its changed how the centre bounce clearances are playing out.  Gawn said " he was late to the party" in understanding this. So do you think its possible then that our whole centre bounce set up hadn't yet adjusted? Ie we can look a whole lot better than we have been if we now adjust? But also who the F is the coach looking at such things!!! 

So in the weekend we had the most players under 22 (10).  We are without Trac and Angus (or Smith), and Oliver was way down.  I’m not sure what the expectation is but we are not doing to badly given this (and a number of other players down on form).  I saw 3 quarters of something pretty good. 

It is a long season, and we dont have the cattle at the moment to be pointy end.  IF we can keep doing above average and make the 8. - which I believe we will do - then I will mark it a pass for 2024.  Where are your pass marks for this year based upon where we are at compared to the start of the year?

36 minutes ago, buck_nekkid said:

 Where are your pass marks for this year based upon where we are at compared to the start of the year?

I’ll second this as a topic for discussion. Nathan Jones said it a few weeks ago, we all need to reassess our expectation of Melbourne, on the weekend we were without Trac, Gus and Lever. From a purely leadership perspective that is massive. On top of that we have Oliver really struggling and several player out of form and low in confidence. 
Post game thread went into meltdown even though we won. 
There will be a time when we will wish we could see the likes of Max, Viney, Clarry and Maysie running round the G one last time.

If we reset our expectation it might allow us enjoy wins like we just had. 
 

Love the Podcast lads. Keep up the good work. 

Thoughts on the renaissance of tagging? I find it is interesting that it is not generally rookies or Z-graders doing it, but teams are using some of their best players to limit influence of opposition stars. Even more, the players being tagged are not always the best in the oppo but the ones with most impact on scoring chains e.g. McCluggage not Neale.

The situation after the half time siren. For accuracy's sake, would the panel describe it as:

• a melee
• a donnybrook
• a line in the sand
• a contretemps
• a brawl
• or a fracas?

Devil's advocate and left field thinking ...

but would using Clarry as the sub help him and the team, so long as he understands and is on board with the why?

An eager Clarry released at halftime might just give him the opportunity to be fresh enough to impact heavily and gain his confidence? The risk is robbing Peter to pay Paul no doubt.

2 hours ago, Demonised said:

The situation after the half time siren. For accuracy's sake, would the panel describe it as:

• a melee
• a donnybrook
• a line in the sand
• a contretemps
• a brawl
• or a fracas?

Maybe a putsch?

I know we're not supposed to worry about the umpires but...can you comment on how two decisions helped shape North's momentum in the final term. Both were triggered by Windsor's alleged infringements.

The first was the bump that resulted in a downfield free (goal) to Zerhar. That to me seemed extraordinary since Langdon was hit in the same fashion and almost identical timing on the opposite (southern flank) in the third quarter and the ball which had landed deep inside F50 was returned almost to the wing for Langdon to retake his kick, thus robbing us of any advantage.

The second was the 50 metre penalty for movement on the mark when Wood shaped to handpass which even the AFL website match report said was an incorrect decision (but the umpire was bluffed by Wood who pointed it out). Wood was marched forward and allowed to crib around to lessen the angle and goal from close range.

How much did those two decisions shape the course of the quarter? Was North going to gain the same momentum without those umpiring "lapses"?

As an aside there was a bit to like about the game: Petty's marking upfield and his smart play to assist Kozzy's goal was sharp work; the Kolt with two cool goal assists was a positive as was Rivers in the midfield and Brown's cameo. May was a champion but for his brain fade moment and Turner looked better both in the air and kicking for goal.

5 hours ago, Demonised said:

The situation after the half time siren. For accuracy's sake, would the panel describe it as:

• a melee
• a donnybrook
• a line in the sand
• a contretemps
• a brawl
• or a fracas?

Gents, as always love the pod. Does anyone have stats on how we perform the second game after a bye? Eg last weeks final quarter “effort” I put down to exhaustion but interested how we have historically performed the following week.

Plus, any view on how the club is training our youngsters? i was particularly excited to see the Kolt in action for a full game (got a bit tired at the end but started really well). I feel the coaching staff are doing a good job in getting young players experienced probably more than other clubs. What is your view on this?

I have big hopes for the Dees at the Gabbatoir….

M

Cutting off the questions here. See you at the free therapy session tonight @ 8:30pm

BYO Xanax

We're LIVE in 15 mins.

Listen & Chat LIVE: https://demonland.com/podcast

Call: 03 9016 3666

Skype: Demonland31

The return of @Satyriconhome to demonland is surely worth a shout out on the pod!

Edited June 25, 2024Jun 25 by DemonWA

On 23/06/2024 at 20:49, John Demonic said:

My deelusional positivity on that last quarter is that: We won and we didn't expend any unnecessary energy to maintain a 30 point win or increase it to 60. Look around the comp: Every team is building a lead and then defending it. Noticing a hell of a lot of "come backs" this year. How rare were they 5 years ago? This tells you just how much energy you expend to get a 5+ goal lead with the 2024 running game. You've got nothing left and the opposition can then chip away it it. Seems like every game bar the odd blow out.

We play Brisbane on Friday and maybe that 4th quarter against North will hold us in good stead to put in a more energetic performance and have something left in the tank come the last if we're still in the game. Thoughts? 

I the 6 - 6 - 6 rule change has driven this change where after a goal is scored teams can get on a run because the opposition cannot setup behind the ball.

To beat Brisbane we will need to control the game by roughly breaking even in the contest and bring lots of pressure so they cannot move the ball through the middle of the ground, and then for our forwards to play well and kick goals.

I think we are a good enough side to beat Brisbane we just need to bring our contest and pressure game, which is more about system than personnel. Our coaches have shown the ability to find this each of the past few years and I'll back them to do it this week. I'm predicting a hard fought and at times spiteful clash.

About 15 minutes in and geez the pile on for @binman is pretty extreme. Seems there is not many of us still thinking we can do something this season, while everyone else is scouring the draft rankings.