31 minutes ago, Dee Viney Intervention said:

As for Sydney. They have been up there long enough now and have well and truly established themselves. They should not be benefiting from the ability to draft recruit Academy talent without some restrictions. No wonder they loves haven’t bottomed out for years.

It’s why I’ve never been for academies. These clubs knew what the consequences would be by establishing themselves in non AFL dominant areas and still chose to set up camp there. Now they’re crying poor and that they should be compensated for their lack of foresight?

Thats kind of like asking for the #1 draft pick a couple of years after stuffing up your original selection………….tough bickies.

20 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

It’s why I’ve never been for academies. These clubs knew what the consequences would be by establishing themselves in non AFL dominant areas and still chose to set up camp there. Now they’re crying poor and that they should be compensated for their lack of foresight?

Thats kind of like asking for the #1 draft pick a couple of years after stuffing up your original selection………….tough bickies.

Its also a mini rort. Errol Gulden was bought up in country victoria football. How does that then turn into Sydney academy player? You shouldn't be permitted to come in and swoop on players from anywhere in Australia and claim them as Academy players. Again if you are going to allow that, then make it that any junior talent can be scouted and added to any clubs academy from anywhere in Oz. Give all clubs 1 academy selection per each draft and be done with it. 

15 hours ago, Simon Port said:

Clarry to Hawks? has anyone else heard that? heard strong whispers over the weekend.

Yes I heard from a hawks coterie member

Don't know what to make of it

**WARNING If you are triggered by trading out Oliver, or general trade discussions while in season (as the thread is titled) please look away now or refrain from having a crack. This is pure speculation aimed at looking to improve our list.

If we ended up with a scenario where a net result was something like :

OUT: Oliver, Petty

IN: LDU, Lukosius, improved Round 1 Pick

Oliver >> GCS for Pick 7 (current) + Lukosius

Petty + Our 1st Pick (Pick 10) >> Adelaide for Pick 4 (Contentious i know but even this feels like a bad deal for Adelaide)

Pick 7 + F2 >> LDU

These are not necessarily upgrades per se, but would give us a different look. An alternative scenario, focused more on rebuilding from draft would be something like:

Oliver >> Hawks R1 (Pick 6) + F1
Petty + Our 1st Pick (Pick 10) >> Adelaide for Pick 4

This would give us Pick 4,6 this year and 2 first rounders in 2025 draft. Honestly this would be a ballsy call, but the one that id prefer. It will give us the top ups we need for the next decade and allow us another crack at the flag before the end of the decade. We could also look to target a bunch of FA's for key positions as we did with Lever and May. 

Edited June 24, 2024Jun 24 by Gawndy the Great

13 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

**WARNING If you are triggered by trading out Oliver, or general trade discussions while in season (as the thread is titled) please look away now or refrain from having a crack. This is pure speculation aimed at looking to improve our list.

If we ended up with a scenario where a net result was something like :

OUT: Oliver, Petty

IN: LDU, Lukosius, improved Round 1 Pick

Oliver >> GCS for Pick 7 (current) + Lukosius

Petty + Our 1st Pick (Pick 10) >> Adelaide for Pick 4 (Contentious i know but even this feels like a bad deal for Adelaide)

Pick 7 + F2 >> LDU

These are not necessarily upgrades per se, but would give us a different look. An alternative scenario, focused more on rebuilding from draft would be something like:

Oliver >> Hawks R1 (Pick 6) + F1
Petty + Our 1st Pick (Pick 10) >> Adelaide for Pick 4

This would give us Pick 4,6 this year and 2 first rounders in 2025 draft. Honestly this would be a ballsy call, but the one that id prefer. It will give us the top ups we need for the next decade and allow us another crack at the flag before the end of the decade. We could also look to target a bunch of FA's for key positions as we did with Lever and May. 

i think a lot of trades for 2024 and 2025 drafts will be determined by what the afl decrees are the new father-son and academy bidding rules

i still think it'll be brought in for 2025, which means we're going to be put in a tough position to get 'unders' for kalani white, as we won't be able to bank a succession of late picks to use the draft collateral to draft him in in the first round by using massed late selections post 40, which seems to be the cut off for future points allocation

of course it also means gc17 are unlikely to take him at all, as they have more highly rated academy prospects coming through

this is the year we want to trade into, and 2025 is the year we want to trade out of imv, particularly if this year's crop is as strong as expected from a midfielder perspective

also, i don't think gc17 will be interested in oliver - they have rowell, who is a better kick, in the same role

similar reason i struggle to see hawks being interested in him; kicking skills are at a premium

if we are shipping oliver out, geelong is i think the best bet - straight swap for jeremy cameron, and we finally have a key forward? 😈

Edited June 24, 2024Jun 24 by whatwhat say what

29 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Its also a mini rort. Errol Gulden was bought up in country victoria football. How does that then turn into Sydney academy player? You shouldn't be permitted to come in and swoop on players from anywhere in Australia and claim them as Academy players. Again if you are going to allow that, then make it that any junior talent can be scouted and added to any clubs academy from anywhere in Oz. Give all clubs 1 academy selection per each draft and be done with it. 

I didnt even know they got Gulden through the academy.  what a joke!

So Mills, Heeney, Blakey, Gulden etc all gifted to them. Never using a top 10 pick. The most blatant favouritism in the league.

They would not be near finals without the academies

On 22/06/2024 at 13:23, demoncat said:

I missed the whole ‘North taking him with pick 3’ fiasco so I have no idea how good he was meant to be or where he otherwise would have been taken 

But surely anyone taken at that pick must have something to work with? Especially if he’s in the right environment and has the right mentality 

Sounds like Jack billings 2.0

31 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

i think a lot of trades for 2024 and 2025 drafts will be determined by what the afl decrees are the new father-son and academy bidding rules

i still think it'll be brought in for 2025, which means we're going to be put in a tough position to get 'unders' for kalani white, as we won't be able to bank a succession of late picks to use the draft collateral to draft him in in the first round by using massed late selections post 40, which seems to be the cut off for future points allocation

of course it also means gc17 are unlikely to take him at all, as they have more highly rated academy prospects coming through

this is the year we want to trade into, and 2025 is the year we want to trade out of imv, particularly if this year's crop is as strong as expected from a midfielder perspective

also, i don't think gc17 will be interested in oliver - they have rowell, who is a better kick, in the same role

similar reason i struggle to see hawks being interested in him; kicking skills are at a premium

if we are shipping oliver out, geelong is i think the best bet - straight swap for jeremy cameron, and we finally have a key forward? 😈

I was thinking the same on both accounts, however one just has to look at Libba and the role he plays in a comparable kicking team at the Doggies. Oliver plays the extractor role perfectly; inside-to-outside player. Ideally he rarely needs to kick. When he was at his best, Oliver amassed a heap of CPs, clearances and initiating scoring chains. He was also very accountable defensively. Hawthorn would go to another level with Oliver performing near his best. 

As for GC (what is the 17 for btw?) i think Rowell has been a disappointment. He is a vgood player but not the beast he was all cracked up to be. He is still young so time will tell, but i think he suffered a lot at the hands of Dew. I also think they are missing one elite midfielder. They have Anderson (outside, winger), Graham (sub par), Flanders (HB) , Miller (average), Swallow (getting old). Plus what are GC going to do with Pick 7, 8, 20 ? They ahve plenty of youth already - they need a contingent of readymades. So there is a case to be made for Oliver >> Suns. 

Im sure you could make a case for Oliver going to any of the other 17 clubs to be honest, but not many have the draft, trade capital to get it done. 

Edited June 24, 2024Jun 24 by Gawndy the Great

25 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Miller (average)

@Gawndy the Great the 17 is there as a nod to Gold Coast being the 17th club admitted to the AFL at the time (some of the promotion might have referred to GC17…worked well as it’s stuck!).

While on the topic of trades, Oliver & Petty mentioned here:

 

Edited June 24, 2024Jun 24 by ChaserJ

Oliver with his current situation will not be traded. He has no value. I would be suprised if any team wanted to take on his contract with the way he is playing currently and the questions on his future, let alone part with a pick of any value for him. He's worth much more to us in trying to build him back up. Last season was the time to trade him, that opportunity is gone. I'd say the same for Petty too - so much more value keeping him than what we'd ever get in a trade now. 

Petty and a 1st rounder for Tilthorpe

Charlie Cameron on the way out of Brisbane - Freo the talk.  Cameron and Kossie at the feet of JVR and Tilthorpe - yes pls

Roberston would be good (if we cant get LDU) .  Dees liked him in draft year.  Cameron and Robertson for ? 

3 hours ago, BScotti said:

Petty and a 1st rounder for Tilthorpe

Charlie Cameron on the way out of Brisbane - Freo the talk.  Cameron and Kossie at the feet of JVR and Tilthorpe - yes pls

Roberston would be good (if we cant get LDU) .  Dees liked him in draft year.  Cameron and Robertson for ? 

What a horrid trade.

5 hours ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Its also a mini rort. Errol Gulden was bought up in country victoria football. How does that then turn into Sydney academy player? You shouldn't be permitted to come in and swoop on players from anywhere in Australia and claim them as Academy players. Again if you are going to allow that, then make it that any junior talent can be scouted and added to any clubs academy from anywhere in Oz. Give all clubs 1 academy selection per each draft and be done with it. 

First I've heard of this. Thought he played most of his junior footy in the Maroubra/Malabar area?

6 hours ago, Gawndy the Great said:

**WARNING If you are triggered by trading out Oliver, or general trade discussions while in season (as the thread is titled) please look away now or refrain from having a crack. This is pure speculation aimed at looking to improve our list.

If we ended up with a scenario where a net result was something like :

OUT: Oliver, Petty

IN: LDU, Lukosius, improved Round 1 Pick

Oliver >> GCS for Pick 7 (current) + Lukosius

Petty + Our 1st Pick (Pick 10) >> Adelaide for Pick 4 (Contentious i know but even this feels like a bad deal for Adelaide)

Pick 7 + F2 >> LDU

These are not necessarily upgrades per se, but would give us a different look. An alternative scenario, focused more on rebuilding from draft would be something like:

Oliver >> Hawks R1 (Pick 6) + F1
Petty + Our 1st Pick (Pick 10) >> Adelaide for Pick 4

This would give us Pick 4,6 this year and 2 first rounders in 2025 draft. Honestly this would be a ballsy call, but the one that id prefer. It will give us the top ups we need for the next decade and allow us another crack at the flag before the end of the decade. We could also look to target a bunch of FA's for key positions as we did with Lever and May. 

Love the scenarios GtG.

I think Oliver is not worth much, unfortunately. We won't get pick 6 and F1 from hawks. We might get F1, around pick 9 or 10, but I honestly think that might be too much. Most non-Dees fans think he's damaged goods and his best is behind him.

After this year Petty would get a high 2nd rounder. If we were to use this as a way of moving from 10 to 4 it would be a win

Is it true that Adelaide offered 2 x 1sts for Petty last year? Sheesh!

Edited June 24, 2024Jun 24 by Moonshadow

14 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Is it true that Adelaide offered 2 x 1sts for Petty last year? Sheesh!

no, it's not, but it's been repeated enough times that it's become truth

On 22/06/2024 at 13:23, demoncat said:

I missed the whole ‘North taking him with pick 3’ fiasco so I have no idea how good he was meant to be or where he otherwise would have been taken 

But surely anyone taken at that pick must have something to work with? Especially if he’s in the right environment and has the right mentality 

He was the 3rd best mid (Laurie 4th) behind Rowell and Anderson (pick 1, pick 2) as an underaged but then was covid impacted in his draft year.

He was meant to be really strong at the coalface and then neat and solid as an outsider.

He’s not a strong clearance player, he’s not great on the outside and he’s short and slow. He’s pretty much a mildly bigger and better version of Laurie. So he can tag, and maybe there’s room to improve with a rock solid preseason or two. But I’d imagine he has a good work ethic to go that high in an unknown draft so he’s probably done the work? (Minus a delay for glandular in 2022).

He just looks very Trengove-y to me. Slow. Big bottom. No power.

Might be worth a one year flyer but that’s it.

57 minutes ago, layzie said:

First I've heard of this. Thought he played most of his junior footy in the Maroubra/Malabar area?

I think that was his later junior years. I swear i remember hearing his family was from Bendigo or Ballarat (cannot remember which one) and he moved to Sydney after his parents split. I cannot find anything online to back that up though. But nevertheless he was a Sydney Academy pick. 

3 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

I think that was his later junior years. I swear i remember hearing his family was from Bendigo or Ballarat (cannot remember which one) and he moved to Sydney after his parents split. I cannot find anything online to back that up though. But nevertheless he was a Sydney Academy pick. 

wiki knows: Gulden was born in Sydney[1] to a Turkish-born father and an Australian mother.[2] He grew up in the suburb of Malabar and was a passionate Carlton supporter.[3] He began playing junior Australian rules football for the Maroubra Saints as a child[4][5] and joined the Sydney Swans academy at 11 years of age.

Ned Moyle has re-signed with Suns for four more years 

And the search for our post-Gawn ruck continues…

1 hour ago, Moonshadow said:

Love the scenarios GtG.

I think Oliver is not worth much, unfortunately. We won't get pick 6 and F1 from hawks. We might get F1, around pick 9 or 10, but I honestly think that might be too much. Most non-Dees fans think he's damaged goods and his best is behind him.

After this year Petty would get a high 2nd rounder. If we were to use this as a way of moving from 10 to 4 it would be a win

Is it true that Adelaide offered 2 x 1sts for Petty last year? Sheesh!

In the right system, Oliver is a steal for 9 or 10.

If he strings a full preseason together, he’s double the player next year. He’s still where he needs to be to get the ball and he can not run at his usual level

It is amazing how much having no preseason training effects your fitness and skills through the footy season. 

 

 

Apparently Moyle has signed on with the suns.. damn 

Yep let's trade Oliver 1 year into a 7 year deal during a career worst year and terrible pre season. Thanks Corns and Morris.