Surely getting rid of Grundy, Jordon & Bedford & bringing in Shcache, Hunter & Billings & oh yeah not trading Petty for two first round draft picks is enough to stamp Goodwins papers 

We tried the Gawn/Grundy experiment for about two games, played Jordon as the sub more games than not & preferred Hunter!!! & to top it of hardly gave Bedford a chance & re signed Chandler, Spargo & Laurie

But we’ve got a great culture???

We will lose to North next week, put your house on it 

Its been a disaster since the 2021 Covid premiership 

Over & out

Edited June 16, 2024Jun 16 by Billy

Getting rid of Grundy smacks of an overcorrection possibly due to egos at the club not willing to give things enough time to find a good balance. Max Gawn was always the better forward of the two. When Grundy came to the club I thought the plan would be to move Max forward/ruck and have Grundy be our main ruck. I still think that could have worked, except Max couldn't or wouldn't do it.

I love Max, but this was a huge fail from him imo. Goody also, for not putting his foot down and making it work. Just banish Grundy to the VFL for no reason and play a backup ruck he's not even willing to put on the ground. Awful.

8 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

Honestly Grundy has played a handful of good games this year, most of them against D list ruckmen. His game against Max needs to be viewed with the understanding that Gawn was very unwell, and probably shouldn’t have played.

If anyone reckons Grundy should still be at the club, and rucking for us, go watch the replay of our gather round game last year against Essendon when Max was injured. Draper absolutely annihilated Grundy, and made him look unfit and lazy. Draper kicked three goals on Grundy purely from out working him. 

Grundy wasn’t in good form for us last year. It’s not the clubs fault he didn’t do the preparation or have the desire to make it work. He’s a different player this year purely because he wants to be. He was happy to sign the contract last year, but not do much to make it work.

It’s boring having to discuss him. Go watch the replays of how he played last year for us. He was poor.

Add to that the match against Brissy where Max went down in the first few minutes.  We got massacred after that with Reg nowhere to be seen.

He has also taken to blocking his opponent's run at the ball this season yet never gets pinged.

If he was trying that rubbish with us i reckon he would've had a record number of frees against.

Amazing what happens when you play for an AFL protected species.

'Free Kick Daicos' another great example.

32 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

He has also taken to blocking his opponent's run at the ball this season yet never gets pinged.

If he was trying that rubbish with us i reckon he would've had a record number of frees against.

i've been watching that with interest too

he basically takes one big step over the centre circle and then uses his big frame to block the oppo ruck's access to the ball and then has a 180 degree drop zone in front of him - it's part of what is helping the swans have such a dominant midfield currently

it's smart, but i'm amazed no one has queried whether or not it's allowed; it's not too dissimilar to gawn's arm block approach which was outlawed for a time and then re-allowed

The failure of the FD to make Gawn/Grundy work was astonishingly poor. 

They had one plan! One! 

• It's a 23 game season, why was it necessary for them to both picked every week? 
• Could we not have planned for them both to play ~16 games? Hence 7 games where only one of them plays? 
• Could we not have been smart enough, injuries permitting, to make sure these games are against teams that play two ruckmen?
• Could we not have used this flexibility to avoid Max travelling interstate 8+ times a season? 
• Could we not have subbed one of the two off occassionaly if it wasn't working mid game?

Max didn't hit the scorebard for a run of 4 games, in June...

• R13 defeated Collingwood 66-62 (BG: 13 disposals, 5 marks, 26 HOs 1g1b; MG 15 disposals, 6 marks 17 HOs)
• R15 lost to Geelong  63-78 (BG: 13 disposals, 5 marks, 19 HOs; MG 15 disposals, 1 marks 23 HOs;)
• R16 lost to Giants 45-47 (BG: 15 disposals, 3 marks, 16 HOs, 1g0b; MG 20 disposals, 2 marks 17 HOs;)
• R17 defeated Saints 79-58 (BG: 13 disposals, 3 marks, 17 HOs; MG 16 disposals, 6 marks 21 HOs;)

After neither of them were able to hit the scoreboard, in the middle of winter. During a period where our highest conceded score was 78, we went 2Ws & 2Ls vs 4 teams that played finals where one game was played in a hurricane we completely abandoned the concept. Brodie was sent to the VFL until R22 a 56-60 loss to the Blues in the wet! 

Please! This was a balls up of epic proportions. Had we played one ruck v Giants and one v Blues we probably win both those games. Why on earth did we pick Max, Brown and Grundy to play the Giants, in a Hurrican in Alice??? Max should have been rested that game and come in cherry ripe v the Blues. Many of us raised these questions at the time and we were 100% right!

I am a big SG supporter, have been all along but not being able to at least try another tact or two is utterly pathetic and now we've gifted the Swans exactly what they needed to jump from 6-8 to no. 1.

8 minutes ago, Dee*ceiving said:

The failure of the FD to make Gawn/Grundy work was astonishingly poor. 

They had one plan! One! 

• It's a 23 game season, why was it necessary for them to both picked every week? 
• Could we not have planned for them both to play ~16 games? Hence 7 games where only one of them plays? 
• Could we not have been smart enough, injuries permitting, to make sure these games are against teams that play two ruckmen?
• Could we not have used this flexibility to avoid Max travelling interstate 8+ times a season? 
• Could we not have subbed one of the two off occassionaly if it wasn't working mid game?

Max didn't hit the scorebard for a run of 4 games, in June...

• R13 defeated Collingwood 66-62 (BG: 13 disposals, 5 marks, 26 HOs 1g1b; MG 15 disposals, 6 marks 17 HOs)
• R15 lost to Geelong  63-78 (BG: 13 disposals, 5 marks, 19 HOs; MG 15 disposals, 1 marks 23 HOs;)
• R16 lost to Giants 45-47 (BG: 15 disposals, 3 marks, 16 HOs, 1g0b; MG 20 disposals, 2 marks 17 HOs;)
• R17 defeated Saints 79-58 (BG: 13 disposals, 3 marks, 17 HOs; MG 16 disposals, 6 marks 21 HOs;)

After neither of them were able to hit the scoreboard, in the middle of winter. During a period where our highest conceded score was 78, we went 2Ws & 2Ls vs 4 teams that played finals where one game was played in a hurricane we completely abandoned the concept. Brodie was sent to the VFL until R22 a 56-60 loss to the Blues in the wet! 

Please! This was a balls up of epic proportions. Had we played one ruck v Giants and one v Blues we probably win both those games. Why on earth did we pick Max, Brown and Grundy to play the Giants, in a Hurrican in Alice??? Max should have been rested that game and come in cherry ripe v the Blues. Many of us raised these questions at the time and we were 100% right!

I am a big SG supporter, have been all along but not being able to at least try another tact or two is utterly pathetic and now we've gifted the Swans exactly what they needed to jump from 6-8 to no. 1.

So you wanted the club to turn our skipper, arguably the best ruckman of all time next to Dean Cox and Simon Madden,  into a part time player who would only play occasionally? That makes sense. I love the mayonnaise you heap on just to reinforce your point. There goes an hour, maybe two, of your life spent writing this nonsense that you will never get back.

4 minutes ago, djr said:

So you wanted the club to turn our skipper, arguably the best ruckman of all time next to Dean Cox and Simon Madden,  into a part time player who would only play occasionally? That makes sense. I love the mayonnaise you heap on just to reinforce your point. There goes an hour, maybe two, of your life spent writing this nonsense that you will never get back.

Ridiculous assessment of the analyis djr...but each to their own

FYI it took me 10 minutes

8 hours ago, Chook said:

Getting rid of Grundy smacks of an overcorrection possibly due to egos at the club not willing to give things enough time to find a good balance. Max Gawn was always the better forward of the two. When Grundy came to the club I thought the plan would be to move Max forward/ruck and have Grundy be our main ruck. I still think that could have worked, except Max couldn't or wouldn't do it.

I love Max, but this was a huge fail from him imo. Goody also, for not putting his foot down and making it work. Just banish Grundy to the VFL for no reason and play a backup ruck he's not even willing to put on the ground. Awful.

Think Max would have been too inaccurate for that.

It was a calculated risk to bringing Grundy in and they swiftly ended the experiment at no real win/loss apart from strengthening a rival.

One thing I like about Soccer transfers is the $ value portion can vary if a player hits certain milestones (either team or player based), obviously very difficult to do in AFL with trades, but wonder if we'll ever have some sort of conditional trading in the AFL - EG - Player traded for 2nd round but in the event player makes AA Squad or team wins flag the pick upgraded to first round. I know it's overcomplicating things, just a Monday ponder. 

1 hour ago, whatwhat say what said:

i've been watching that with interest too

he basically takes one big step over the centre circle and then uses his big frame to block the oppo ruck's access to the ball and then has a 180 degree drop zone in front of him - it's part of what is helping the swans have such a dominant midfield currently

it's smart, but i'm amazed no one has queried whether or not it's allowed; it's not too dissimilar to gawn's arm block approach which was outlawed for a time and then re-allowed

According to Razor you can't step accross and take the path of an opposing ruck WW.  His words not mine.

He said it's considered a block and should be paid as such.

As i said in my first post about it, for some reason Reg is being allowed to get away with it when others, such as Hawkins, are occasionally getting pinged.

Even Hawkins gets away with it on occasions, other times no.

Yet here we have a cronic abuser who is using it to ensure the oppo ruck can't get to the drop and getting away with it.

Surely the oppo rucks, ruck coaches / head coach are noticing this by now?

The AFL truly is a circus act at the end of the day though.  The ring master always has his way.  And as frustrating as the whole AFL charade is i need to remind myseld of that and just laugh out loud more often.

Different interpretation of rules for selective clubs and their folk depending on the HQ agenda trending at the time.

Edited June 17, 2024Jun 17 by Demon Dynasty

I don't know why this conversation still has legs. We gave up a second round pick and his wage was partly subsidised. It didn't work out and we moved him on for a second round pick. The only slightly embarrassing part of it all was Goody declaring that he was now at a club that valued him. 

1 hour ago, djr said:

So you wanted the club to turn our skipper, arguably the best ruckman of all time next to ahead of Dean Cox and Simon Madden,  into a part time player who would only play occasionally? That makes sense. I love the mayonnaise you heap on just to reinforce your point. There goes an hour, maybe two, of your life spent writing this nonsense that you will never get back.

fify

this is my take on it too - when you have a superstar like gawn, you don't waste his capabilities playing him as a forward

it would mean the role he was playing was more akin to mason than dean

A player we traded out is playing well for another team

Get over it.  Never heard so much whinging in my life.

We got him in, it didn't work.

Move on

The mistake was getting Grundy in the first place, not trading him to the Swans. The whole football world and 10% of Demonlanders couldn't make sense of getting Grundy, because both he and Max need to be the no.1 ruck to be effective.

I'm more annoyed with getting the likes of Hunter and Billings in, whilst allowing Jordon and Bedford to leave due to lack of opportunities.

The biggest issue I have with the club is how often they've got it wrong with mature aged acquisitions over the past 3 years. Grundy is just one of many.

 

Edited June 17, 2024Jun 17 by mo64

I think the whinging is ok from an opportunity cost perspective.

We wasted time and resources recruiting a redundant player. We would’ve been off pushing for another up and coming mid or trading into the draft to get access to elite talls. Recruiting Grundy was a mistake at the time and potentially cost us 12 months is another JVR type.

Also re Max. Whilst he may not have volunteered to drive Grundy to Sydney, he certainly wouldn’t have begged him to stay. Max’s memoirs will be an interesting read one day.

48 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

According to Razor you can't step accross and take the path of an opposing ruck WW.  His words not mine.

He said it's considered a block and should be paid as such.

As i said in my first post about it, for some reason Reg is being allowed to get away with it when others, such as Hawkins, are occasionally getting pinged.

Even Hawkins gets away with it on occasions, other times no.

Yet here we have a cronic abuser who is using it to ensure the oppo ruck can't get to the drop and getting away with it.

Surely the oppo rucks, ruck coaches / head coach are noticing this by now?

The AFL truly is a circus act at the end of the day though.  The ring master always has his way.  And as frustrating as the whole AFL charade is i need to remind myseld of that and just laugh out loud more often.

Different interpretation of rules for selective clubs and their folk depending on the HQ agenda trending at the time.

well there we go, if razor - who i consider a very good decision maker - considers it a block, then it's a block

now i wait for it to be paid...

and i wait...and wait...and...

8 minutes ago, JJJ said:

I think the whinging is ok from an opportunity cost perspective.

We wasted time and resources recruiting a redundant player. We would’ve been off pushing for another up and coming mid or trading into the draft to get access to elite talls. Recruiting Grundy was a mistake at the time and potentially cost us 12 months is another JVR type.

Also re Max. Whilst he may not have volunteered to drive Grundy to Sydney, he certainly wouldn’t have begged him to stay. Max’s memoirs will be an interesting read one day.

in truth, what's really cost us is dog leaving at the end of 2022 - the knock on effect for the way we play was enormous

we had adapted a game plan built around gawn + jackson and dogga's defection was a clear factor in trying 'grawndy'

when there was opportunity to get grundy on the cheap, we took it - it was a risk worth taking, and it clearly didn't come off

 

Edited June 17, 2024Jun 17 by whatwhat say what

Ffs talk about clutching. Who needs journalists to kick us when we’re down when we have our own supporters.

Gawn is not now or ever will be a forward and neither is Grundy, if you think differently you have NFI

Grundy's BOG on Saturday is akin to Tom Mitchell winning the Brownlow

It seems the umpires (and commentators) like knock-ons to some imaginary target and handballing over one's head

Any truth that Gawn threw the toys out of the pram?

1 hour ago, mo64 said:

The whole football world and 10% of Demonlanders couldn't make sense of getting Grundy

I thought the whole football world was salivating at the prospect of having two AA ruckmen in the same team.

Ive cheered him and James on this year.  They made career choices as we all would. Still a loss but looking forward

Edited June 17, 2024Jun 17 by Waltham33

I find it so hard to believe that it "simply didn't work". We played good football with both in the side. Gave up way too early. And then picked Schache over him in a final. 

To top it off we ship him to another contender. Smh.

I think at the time bringing in Grundy made alot of sense:

1.  Jackson was leaving to join Freo and created a gap for a key role on our list.

2.  We needed a KPF but none were available and luring one would cost $1.5 million per season.

3. Grundy was available and would cost us about half of what we would pay for a KPF.

4. Gawn was pretty banged up by the end of 2022 and we identified he needed support in the ruck.

5. Gawn had demonstrated his ability to take contested marks in the forward and back half of the ground as well as kicking goals.

The key question was whether the whole would at least add up to the sum of its parts and ideally be greater than it. It worked with Gawn and Jackson but unfortunately when the evidence came in the result was that Gawn and Grundy diminished each others value.

As for not playing Grundy in finals I can only speculate that once it was decided that Grundy would look to join another club that we opted to select players for finals that would be on our list the following year. This was probably also helped by Gawn and Grundy diminishing each others impact on games.

1 hour ago, Waltham33 said:

Ive cheered him and James on this year.  They made career choices as we all would. Still a loss but looking forward

I haven't

 

18 hours ago, Jibroni said:

James Jordan has been ok for them as well.

I do miss JJ, my thinking was that he was maturing onfield to become a reliable, regular crumber about the packs and moving well to space (for when the midfielders decided to play eyes-up, for a change). He did not present star qualities but displayed undertones of maturing in his role, alongside improving performance consistency. At the Dees, he deserved more attention and experience, I thought.