Andrew Wu (The Age) on our DEECLINE

[demon3165 2,522]

28 minutes ago, binman said:

Of course our season is not done. 

If people want to run around hysterically with their hair on fire, calling for rebuilds and saying the season is a write off that's their pergorative.

But i for one remain bullish. And I don't give a toss that most posters might find that ridiculous.

We are 4 points from fourth for pete's sake. We will likely win 2 of our next 3 and be back in the 8.

The doomsayers on here may be proven correct. Or they may not.

And if they are not I'm going to enjoy whatever success comes our way safe in the knowledge that i stuck fat and didn't get sucked into a doom spiral some on here seem to revel in.

You would be that person on the titanic when it started to take water getting on the microphone saying it's OK folks it's only a little water get back to you cabins and have fun, so tell us what happened against Freo and a weakened Collingwood side where did we go wrong and how to fix it I'm interested for your opinion on this and what do we need to improve as a side I'm open minded on this so over to you...

[Sydee 4,136]

3 hours ago, demon3165 said:

Must have pretty low standards if you are calling jordon, Bedford, hunt and harmes A graders.

I would  or call any of the following A graders based on 2024 form

Fullarton

McAdam

Billings

Hunter

Our inability to attract players that can have an immediate impact to offset player departures has cost us imho 

Irrespective of where we finish this season I sincerely hope our list gets the shakeup it needs and we can attract some players that can contribute meaningfully in 2025 and beyond 

[Sydee 4,136]

2 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

Of all the players who departed our club since 2021, the only one that’s left an irreplaceable hole, is Gus. 

The rest would make no difference to our fortunes right now. But the loss of Gus on field and off it, has had IMO an immeasurable negative impact on the team. 

Agree but I’d definitely add LJ - imo a huge loss in so many ways 

[Jaded No More 66,975]

4 minutes ago, Sydee said:

Agree but I’d definitely add LJ - imo a huge loss in so many ways 

Yep LJ is more of a long term loss IMO 

Certainly not a loss from a leadership perspective however 

[At the break of Gawn 4,373]

52 minutes ago, binman said:

Of course our season is not done. 

If people want to run around hysterically with their hair on fire, calling for rebuilds and saying the season is a write off that's their pergorative.

But i for one remain bullish. And I don't give a toss that most posters might find that ridiculous.

We are 4 points from fourth for pete's sake. We will likely win 2 of our next 3 and be back in the 8.

The doomsayers on here may be proven correct. Or they may not.

And if they are not I'm going to enjoy whatever success comes our way safe in the knowledge that i stuck fat and didn't get sucked into a doom spiral some on here seem to revel in.

I think you’re too concerned with the W/L columns. Goodwin and co are more concerned about how we are playing. As per the stats at the start of the thread, our game is in terrible shape. If we get our game in good shape, the wins will come and they’ll come against good teams not just North and West Coast. The bye couldn’t have come quick enough for a reset.

[demon3165 2,522]

20 minutes ago, Sydee said:

I would  or call any of the following A graders based on 2024 form

Fullarton

McAdam

Billings

Hunter

Our inability to attract players that can have an immediate impact to offset player departures has cost us imho 

Irrespective of where we finish this season I sincerely hope our list gets the shakeup it needs and we can attract some players that can contribute meaningfully in 2025 and beyond 

My view on those

Fullarton from what I have seen and limited like Schache has skills but not intense at the contest.

McAdam as a forward is not the main target type of player more the second or third player who can bob up.

Billings game plan clearly does not suit him an outside player.

Hunter last year.

Now Kentfield, likes contact clearly has football smarts showed that last week in limited time and likes contact at the ball all he needs is a fitness base.

[Colm 1,896]

3 hours ago, dice said:

Unfortunately Taylor and Lamb lost the midas touch after the premiership

Still have full confidence in JT. Not so sure about Lamb. Seems our trading has gone downhill since Josh Mahoney left. 

[beelzebub 23,125]

1 hour ago, binman said:

Of course our season is not done. 

If people want to run around hysterically with their hair on fire, calling for rebuilds and saying the season is a write off that's their pergorative.

But i for one remain bullish. And I don't give a toss that most posters might find that ridiculous.

We are 4 points from fourth for pete's sake. We will likely win 2 of our next 3 and be back in the 8.

The doomsayers on here may be proven correct. Or they may not.

And if they are not I'm going to enjoy whatever success comes our way safe in the knowledge that i stuck fat and didn't get sucked into a doom spiral some on here seem to revel in.

Those of us seeing the clear light of day  , quietly balming in the calm of quiet reflection  might respectfully disagree.

We're stuffed:

No effective forward line.  A neutered midfield. An undermanned backline.

Do i even need to mention a non-understood game plan.

Some folk, and i casually include myself  don't feel hysterically inclined. Quite the inverse. There's quiet , there's peace. There is no expectation.  This comes when you realise ,for one reason or another 2 wheels have come adrlift. You're weaving all over the place and you notice the nuts on the 3rd wheel aren't that tight. The rubber on the last is worisome.

Your maths whilst theoretically possible requite results of near powerball level.

I really admire your positivity.

I reckon you're mad.  

 

Edited June 12 by beelzebub

[poita 3,871]

10 minutes ago, Colm said:

Still have full confidence in JT. Not so sure about Lamb. Seems our trading has gone downhill since Josh Mahoney left. 

Taylor has been poor over the past four draft years (Van Rooyen aside), but we definitely haven't given him enough late picks to work with. I'm keen to see what he can do with some late picks to find some hidden gems in the state leagues.

Lamb has been abysmal and needs to be given his marching orders before year end.

[Colm 1,896]

12 minutes ago, poita said:

Taylor has been poor over the past four draft years (Van Rooyen aside), but we definitely haven't given him enough late picks to work with. I'm keen to see what he can do with some late picks to find some hidden gems in the state leagues.

Lamb has been abysmal and needs to be given his marching orders before year end.

Too early to judge the last two years but  the Windsor looks the goods and there’s  high hopes for the Kolt. Time will tell on the likes of Jefferson, Sestan and Verrall. 
Also picked up Judd as a rookie same year as JVR. 

Laurie hasn’t impressed me but there wasn’t really any good players picked after him. Shame cats jumped in front to pick up Holmes. 
 

Why not go back a year further when we picked up Jackson, Kossie and Rivers. 
No doubt we have lots of problems at the min, not sure JT is one of them. 

[Queanbeyan Demon 6,671]

I thought this was a good comment at the bottom of the article.

The Demons left a premiership on the table in 2023. (Not saying Collingwood didn't deserve theirs.) Goodwin's brand of footy is taxing on players. I wonder if Stephen May's comment at the Melbourne best and fairest last year has more merit than initially meets the eye. A team can be 'up' for only so long before 'system fatigue', such as Goodwin's, takes its toll.

[Demonsone 1,923]

1 hour ago, Sydee said:

I would  or call any of the following A graders based on 2024 form

Fullarton

McAdam

Billings

Hunter

Our inability to attract players that can have an immediate impact to offset player departures has cost us imho 

Irrespective of where we finish this season I sincerely hope our list gets the shakeup it needs and we can attract some players that can contribute meaningfully in 2025 and beyond 

Stole my thunder, I give Mc Adam more toe but the rest are used by dates! How is that improving your list & a team that’s won a flag & top 4 finishes can’t attract talent, either our recruiters are poor or no one wants to come 

Edited June 12 by Demonsone

[dazzledavey36 52,416]

6 minutes ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

I thought this was a good comment at the bottom of the article.

The Demons left a premiership on the table in 2023. (Not saying Collingwood didn't deserve theirs.) Goodwin's brand of footy is taxing on players. I wonder if Stephen May's comment at the Melbourne best and fairest last year has more merit than initially meets the eye. A team can be 'up' for only so long before 'system fatigue', such as Goodwin's, takes its toll.

I'm a big believer that 2023 is up there with 1998 as the biggest missed opportunity of a flag.

All the stats in the land had us pretty much the number 1 ranked team of the competition. 

This is controversial from my end but losing Melksham from our forward line was a bigger loss then Brayshaw. When he went down our forward line lost all its system and leadership. He was the captain we needed up forward to galvanise our set up and then it's he's ability to engage with the number 1 defender to not only take him out of the game but hurt on the scoreboard just completely hurt us.

No one will ever change my mind, but absolutely 2023 was the biggest missed opportunity for a flag from our end.

[Mel Bourne 4,374]

5 hours ago, demon3165 said:

Find it moronic that you don't know what it is but there you go.

Oh great. Our resident charmer is back on the night shift. 

[picket fence 16,591]

3 hours ago, binman said:

Of course our season is not done. 

If people want to run around hysterically with their hair on fire, calling for rebuilds and saying the season is a write off that's their pergorative.

But i for one remain bullish. And I don't give a toss that most posters might find that ridiculous.

We are 4 points from fourth for pete's sake. We will likely win 2 of our next 3 and be back in the 8.

The doomsayers on here may be proven correct. Or they may not.

And if they are not I'm going to enjoy whatever success comes our way safe in the knowledge that i stuck fat and didn't get sucked into a doom spiral some on here seem to revel in.

Um our season IS DONE! Dont sugar coat it my friend, We are WAAAAY of it !

[Kick_It_To_Pickett 3,291]

16 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Um our season IS DONE! Dont sugar coat it my friend, We are WAAAAY of it !

Correct. Any talk of a reset is nonsense. Maybe in previous seasons. We just lost our best player for the season…we have nothing to replace him with…we cleared our depth for Billings. I mean, we can give Tholstrup a shot against the Roos, but he ain’t changing the season’s trajectory. 
 

the problems run deep, and as I have said on other threads, this is a list management issue. The list has regressed every year since the flag. We can’t cover players who are injured or out of form. 
 

it is time to experiment. Put rivers in the middle against Norf. Try McVee. Who cares. It’s all on to 2025. 
 

side note, what were we doing recruiting Fullerton? I’d rather we went after Lobb? Where did all our money go after the salary dumps ?

[rpfc 27,990]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I'm a big believer that 2023 is up there with 1998 as the biggest missed opportunity of a flag.

All the stats in the land had us pretty much the number 1 ranked team of the competition. 

This is controversial from my end but losing Melksham from our forward line was a bigger loss then Brayshaw. When he went down our forward line lost all its system and leadership. He was the captain we needed up forward to galvanise our set up and then it's he's ability to engage with the number 1 defender to not only take him out of the game but hurt on the scoreboard just completely hurt us.

No one will ever change my mind, but absolutely 2023 was the biggest missed opportunity for a flag from our end.

I agree. I am on record saying I don’t mind this move to change how inert we are off half back but obviously more structural flaws, form and depth are coming into play now. 

I really think 2022 was a terrible flirtation with our form the way the FD changed our gameplan and restricted it even further from ‘defence first’ to ‘defence only’…

Players en masse develop habits especially when you are winning that are impossible to break - so when we needed to be daring and when needed to calm down and pick our spots and connect (2023) - we couldn’t do it.

[bing181 8,837]

21 minutes ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

The list has regressed every year since the flag.

Under the AFL system that's what's supposed to happen. Equalisation. The only way round it is through father-sons (looking at you Collingwood), or Academy (come on down Sydney Swans).

[Gawndy the Great 9,008]

1 minute ago, bing181 said:

Under the AFL system that's what's supposed to happen. Equalisation. The only way round it is through father-sons (looking at you Collingwood), or Academy (come on down Sydney Swans).

Don’t forget good ol Doggies. JUH, Darcy

[Redleg 39,838]

19 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Melbourne players are clueless as to what to do.

There is confusion from the coaching staff clearly - pretty sure he's not telling them to play like this.

We are so Max dominant that we are easy to coach against. Players continually dump kick to Max despite us have free players around. 

Viney has tunnel vision and simply cannot see free players around him. Is possibly the worst for bombing into our fwd50

Oliver is currently a liability. I'd play him out of the fwd 50. Can't do any worse.

Fritsch is insanely frustrating with his poor/lame efforts and lack of physicality. He also has blinkers and misses easy hit up kicks.

Something is wrong with May His positioning the last few weeks has been terrible. Teams are forcing him up the ground. He looks lost without Lever, can't bend over and is playing in pain. He has become fumbly.

McVee has lost his drive. Howes has become pedestrian. Billings is slow of mind and of foot. Turnover city. 

Pressure applied has fallen to its lowest this year. The players are cooked in the mind and bereft of confidence.

The gameplan has fallen apart. Cant see myself going /watching for the rest of the year. Its too emotionally draining.

Goodwin will be Houdini if he can turn this rotting ship around.

I was trying to think of an argument against your post, but I can’t as I agree with it.

Playing some young blokes might create some enthusiasm and that could generate a better feeling among the group.

I just wonder if Goody set them free, if the team would play better.

The fact that they don’t know instinctively what to do, makes them take that split second to decide and that is where the pressure kills their possession and their disposal, leading to turnovers and opposition scores. The bombing into the forward line just adds to the turnovers and further opposition scores.

The lack of spirit is also evident.

We look a shadow of the team of the last three years.

[demon3165 2,522]

8 hours ago, Mel Bourne said:

Oh great. Our resident charmer is back on the night shift. 

Oh there we go, nothing intelligent to contribute but trying to give a drive by, back to school little one see if you can pass kindergarten this year.

[Mel Bourne 4,374]

2 hours ago, demon3165 said:

Oh there we go, nothing intelligent to contribute but trying to give a drive by, back to school little one see if you can pass kindergarten this year.

You’ve significantly ramped-up your presence here since the team has been on a losing streak, and your contributions are some of the most antagonistic, childish and aggressive posts I’ve seen on Demonland in quite some time.

There’s plenty of room here for disagreement without needing to resort to “troll” behaviour. 
 

 

[demon3165 2,522]

30 minutes ago, Mel Bourne said:

You’ve significantly ramped-up your presence here since the team has been on a losing streak, and your contributions are some of the most antagonistic, childish and aggressive posts I’ve seen on Demonland in quite some time.

There’s plenty of room here for disagreement without needing to resort to “troll” behaviour. 
 

 

You are the one trolling and it's simple block me then you don't see my posts or is that to hard to figure out, I write what I see,  agree with people on their views or I disagree with my view and that's the difference between you and me I don't follow blindly without putting something forward unlike you so do yourself a favour and don't reply or take a panadol and a good rest.

[demon3165 2,522]

42 minutes ago, Mel Bourne said:

You’ve significantly ramped-up your presence here since the team has been on a losing streak, and your contributions are some of the most antagonistic, childish and aggressive posts I’ve seen on Demonland in quite some time.

There’s plenty of room here for disagreement without needing to resort to “troll” behaviour. 
 

 

Oh by the way, best you research before writing something,  I have been saying the same thing in 22 and 23 so at least I have been consistent in my views. 

[binman 41,788]

16 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

I think you’re too concerned with the W/L columns. Goodwin and co are more concerned about how we are playing. As per the stats at the start of the thread, our game is in terrible shape. If we get our game in good shape, the wins will come and they’ll come against good teams not just North and West Coast. The bye couldn’t have come quick enough for a reset.

No, not at all (too concerned with the w/lost column).

I have consistently said from the beginning of the season that by design we won't be playing our best footy till August.

Which is why i have also said, echoing Daniel Hoyne's comments, we need to wear some losses and poor performances.

I have also consistently said we will revert to our traditional goody game plan come finals (hopefully with improvements to our turnover game - a process that by the by began ladt year).

That model is built for finals. Every single finals team will use a variation of it. It's why the hawks are focusing on contest and pressure this year  whereas last year it was all about fast transition from the back half footy.

I have also said I think there is the possibility our evident lack of fitness is also by design (ie ramp up at the end).

Given I believe all of that, and have all season, is it any wonder i remain bullish?

I mean of course I would have hoped we didn't get rolled by the eagled and thrashed by the dockers (the pies loss was disappointing too of course, but more because of those previous losses - the pies favourites to win, we played better than scoreboard indicated as evidenced by the fact the x score had us losing by 4 points).

But otherwise, we are tracking only a bit worse than I thought we would be at this stage of the season.

Goody is a student of history. Speaking of Daniel Hoyne, after round 10 he said of the swans (I think this is right) that there had been 8 previous times a team was on top of the ladder more than 20% clear of second (and iirc 8 points too?).

And only once had that team gone on to win the flag - the hawks in 2013. 

And of course it could just be a coincidence, but it also may not be, that at this point in the season last year the swans, giants and blues were 13th, 14th and 15th.

And of course it could be a coincidence, but it also may not be, that two teams currently in the 8 - the cats and giants- have both lost four of their last four games.

Or that the pies lost their first 3 games.