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AFLW: Rd 09 vs Fremantle



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3 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

You were there, KITP. Surely you agree that the wind was off the charts, even by Casey standards. And it wasn’t a predictable wind, either, nor was it on and off. It was relentless. We had a few posters and a couple touched on the line. I thought given the horrid conditions we did really well scoreboard-wise. 

I’m pretty sure that’s what I said. We capitalised but also left plenty of goals out there. Misses from close range snaps which hit the post. The wind was horrendous. The stadium likewise. The service of food and beverage predictably awful. The traffic and 1 hour trip home frustrating. 

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All the finals scenarios based on possible results next week here:

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/aflw-2023-afl-womens-last-round-finals-scenarios-the-run-home-ladder-predictor-round-10-games-what-every-team-needs/news-story/d6060d2daf5fd9ec9dc0454f8df1df95

As mentioned by others, for us the equation is pretty simple:

"Win: Finish 1st unless Adelaide wins by biggest margin in AFLW history, then finish 2nd

Lose: Finish 2nd if Adelaide wins, 1st if Adelaide loses

With the $1 million McClelland Trophy already theirs, the Demons are simply aiming for the minor premiership on Saturday night. But there’s something arguably even more important on the line - a very favourable qualifying final. We can’t imagine Adelaide losing to West Coast earlier in the evening, so if Melbourne loses to Brisbane they should drop into second, and very likely face North Melbourne in a tricky qualifying final. But a win over Brisbane will knock the Lions out of the four, and hand the Demons a qualifying final against fourth-placed Essendon or Gold Coast - who the reigning premiers would be heavily favoured against. Either way the Dees are one of the flag favourites but an easier qualifying final is quite the reward."

 

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On 28/10/2023 at 17:08, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

We capitalised on our chances and should have kicked plenty more. Blustery conditions made for a poor contest. 
 

Casey is the worst place to have to travel to. I know I probably sound like a broken record, but the joint is a joke. Took me over an hour from Malvern to get there. A grass fire on the freeway and then the road into Casey was bumper to bumper, as usual. The wind was gale force. The lines at the only two food outlets meant you missed a whole quarter of the game waiting to get food. The view at the ground is poor. The only good view is on the members side we’re the small section of seats are, which are always given to away team family and friends. The nets behind the goals make it hard to see from the cheer squad area.

 

After yet another negative Casey experience, our family has vowed that we will not return to watch anymore football there. Men’s practice matches or AFLW. 
 

 

agree KITP.

It's too far, too windy, too hard to park, and, it's not in keeping with modern AFL to have the wind not be a factor - does anyone know if we have made in the past 15 years headway into a fan-base in Casey?

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13 hours ago, Anti-Saint said:

It's too far, too windy, too hard to park, and, it's not in keeping with modern AFL to have the wind not be a factor - does anyone know if we have made in the past 15 years headway into a fan-base in Casey?

They desperately need a railway extension to Clyde with an intermediate station at Cranbourne East/Casey.

No way I'd drive to Casey from way out the other wide of Melbourne. Ikon Park is far better.

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13 hours ago, Anti-Saint said:

agree KITP.

It's too far, too windy, too hard to park, and, it's not in keeping with modern AFL to have the wind not be a factor - does anyone know if we have made in the past 15 years headway into a fan-base in Casey?

@binman addressed this yesterday. He says that’s largely why we still play there, to stay connected with, and grow our south eastern fan-base. I tend to disagree. The crowd numbers also show otherwise. Nobody, but NOBODY I’ve ever spoken to likes going to Casey. Even DA members who live out that way hate going to Casey. The players much prefer Ikon. Casey isn’t fit to hold AFL matches. Practice matches, sure. But when H&A points are at stake an AFL-standard ground is needed. Casey is far from AFL-standard. 

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Have to agree with the criticisms of Casey.  I attend all my AFLW matches via public transport and Casey is a nightmare.  I'm currently, temporarily, living in the northern suburbs and it's around three hours each way.  Even from my regular abode in the inner city it's still usually over two hours each way.  The wind nearly always has an adverse impact on the quality and spectacle of the match and I'd argue it has produced our three poorest performances this season, the loss to Adelaide and two scrappy wins over the Dogs and Dockers.  If the club wants to grow the support for the women's team and the AFLW in general they need to play their matches where the majority of the supporters have more ready access, and the best of the game can be showcased.

Edited by Craig T
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15 hours ago, Dees_In_October said:

All the finals scenarios based on possible results next week here:

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/aflw-2023-afl-womens-last-round-finals-scenarios-the-run-home-ladder-predictor-round-10-games-what-every-team-needs/news-story/d6060d2daf5fd9ec9dc0454f8df1df95

As mentioned by others, for us the equation is pretty simple:

"Win: Finish 1st unless Adelaide wins by biggest margin in AFLW history, then finish 2nd

Lose: Finish 2nd if Adelaide wins, 1st if Adelaide loses

With the $1 million McClelland Trophy already theirs, the Demons are simply aiming for the minor premiership on Saturday night. But there’s something arguably even more important on the line - a very favourable qualifying final. We can’t imagine Adelaide losing to West Coast earlier in the evening, so if Melbourne loses to Brisbane they should drop into second, and very likely face North Melbourne in a tricky qualifying final. But a win over Brisbane will knock the Lions out of the four, and hand the Demons a qualifying final against fourth-placed Essendon or Gold Coast - who the reigning premiers would be heavily favoured against. Either way the Dees are one of the flag favourites but an easier qualifying final is quite the reward."

 

They say Crows would have to win by the biggest margin in AFLW history but not say what it is.  Looks like a cop out or they are too lazy to estimate the range...

Some googling found this:  "Adelaide Crows defeat Giants by 96 points for biggest win in AFLW history". about 12 months ago.  GWS of 2022 weren't as bad as the Eagles this year.   So Crows will be full of confidence they can monster Eagles.

I for one, am not assuming a win will keep us on top. 

However, the advantage we have is our game is after theirs so we will know is needed to stay on top but I'm not expecting a big winning margin.

 

Anyone have an idea of what Adelaide's approx winning margin needs to be if we win by just one goal (which will drag our % down...)?

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45 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Anyone have an idea of what Adelaide's approx winning margin needs to be if we win by just one goal (which will drag our % down...)?

If Adelaide win 100 - nil, their percentage would sit at 233.46%.

If we win 50-49, our percentage would be 233.56%.

If it is getting that close, every West Coast score is a big bonus to us. Similarly every point we prevent Brisbane kicking makes a big difference also.

Edited by poita
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2 hours ago, Craig T said:

Have to agree with the criticisms of Casey.  I attend all my AFLW matches via public transport and Casey is a nightmare.  I'm currently, temporarily, living in the northern suburbs and it's around three hours each way.  Even from my regular abode in the inner city it's still usually over two hours each way.

That's a fair effort! Kudos for putting in the hard yards. Casey is difficult enough to get to by car but public transport is ridiculous, especially if you're lugging a camp chair or wrangling kids or whatever, it's easy to see how it limits access.

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And just to put some figures behind the crowd comparisons for our home games in 2023, it's exactly as we'd expect:

Avg. Casey attendance (3 games): 1,694

Avg. Princes Park attendance (2 games): 5,558

Avg. home attendance last H&A season: 1,288 (4 Casey games - not including the 17,851 MCG crowd for R2)

We've done the most important thing in attracting crowds, which is to win games and be a consistent, competitive and enjoyable team to watch. Based on the above, the next obvious thing is not to play at Casey. Obvious but perhaps not easy contractually? Though that fastest-growing area thing only works if we've actually got a strategy for converting those people into supporters and members. Would love to know if there's any evidence of that happening and if it's enough to counter the number of existing members who would attend but will never set foot at Casey Fields.

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2 minutes ago, Dees_In_October said:

And just to put some figures behind the crowd comparisons for our home games in 2023, it's exactly as we'd expect:

Avg. Casey attendance (3 games): 1,694

Avg. Princes Park attendance (2 games): 5,558

Avg. home attendance last H&A season: 1,288 (4 Casey games - not including the 17,851 MCG crowd for R2)

We've done the most important thing in attracting crowds, which is to win games and be a consistent, competitive and enjoyable team to watch. Based on the above, the next obvious thing is not to play at Casey. Obvious but perhaps not easy contractually? Though that fastest-growing area thing only works if we've actually got a strategy for converting those people into supporters and members. Would love to know if there's any evidence of that happening and if it's enough to counter the number of existing members who would attend but will never set foot at Casey Fields.

If the teams all train regularly at Casey and there isn't in fact  baked in support down that way that translates into bigger crowds (noting that is a long term plan) then playing all our games at Princes park is an absolute no brainer. 

I'm in Altona and Casey is def an disincentive to watch the women play in terms of how long it takes to drive there and back - as is the wind effect too for that matter.

But I doubt i'd miss a game if all our games were at Princess Park.

As i have flagged before make it a Friday night event and promote the bejesus out of it so it is locked into people's mind that you can catch the dees at Princess park under lights every second Friday night. 

You raise a really good question about the strategy for converting people in the south east into supporters and members.

That was definitely the plan pre Jackson, but i actually don't have a sense where that strategy is at. 

I have been a critic of the comms from the club and given the issues communicating with members and current fans i have to say i don't have a great deal of confidence in the club's ability to communicate to, and engage with, prospective fans!   

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2 hours ago, poita said:

If Adelaide win 100 - nil, their percentage would sit at 233.46%.

If we win 50-49, our percentage would be 233.56%.

If it is getting that close, every West Coast score is a big bonus to us. Similarly every point we prevent Brisbane kicking makes a big difference also.

Thank you.

I'm now in the 'win and we stay on top' camp!

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5 hours ago, Dees_In_October said:

That's a fair effort! Kudos for putting in the hard yards. Casey is difficult enough to get to by car but public transport is ridiculous, especially if you're lugging a camp chair or wrangling kids or whatever, it's easy to see how it limits access.

It says something about this team that I'm prepared to make such a journey for each Casey game.  I couldn't imagine a sporting team more deserving of fan support.  The banner episode last week is a typical example of how you just have to love them. 🙂

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30 minutes ago, Anti-Saint said:

how are we going to fit in Gay/Harris into this team?

I can see that Gall will drop back but who else as there were no injuries.

And Sarah Lampard hopefully before the season is out.  Not to mention Gaby Colvin and Aimee Mackin both of whom could be right to go this week, too.

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7 hours ago, binman said:

If the teams all train regularly at Casey and there isn't in fact  baked in support down that way that translates into bigger crowds (noting that is a long term plan) then playing all our games at Princes park is an absolute no brainer. 

I'm in Altona and Casey is def an disincentive to watch the women play in terms of how long it takes to drive there and back - as is the wind effect too for that matter.

But I doubt i'd miss a game if all our games were at Princess Park.

As i have flagged before make it a Friday night event and promote the bejesus out of it so it is locked into people's mind that you can catch the dees at Princess park under lights every second Friday night. 

You raise a really good question about the strategy for converting people in the south east into supporters and members.

That was definitely the plan pre Jackson, but i actually don't have a sense where that strategy is at. 

I have been a critic of the comms from the club and given the issues communicating with members and current fans i have to say i don't have a great deal of confidence in the club's ability to communicate to, and engage with, prospective fans!   

Well that might change if a concerted effort was made to do that.

Also I believe the Club should be proactive in trying out a supporters bus to Casey from near MCG or FlindersSt/ Southern Cross.

Anyways let’s concentrate on the back to back Flag which will along with our not to be underestimated McClelland Trophy win ( heist almost) and it’s just rewards to both our AFL and ALFW groups.

We missed out on the real Chocolates 🍫 in September and only the smart fans and footy nerds know how close we really were. They would be shaking in their shoes if we ever get a functional forward line with all players fit and firing and available.

In addition two almost ready made recruits one a mid and the other a versatile KP player or Harley Reid on his own would do no harm at all to our chances.

We might have a little bit of mud on our boots at the moment but the $1m is a circuit breaker and base which we can and will go forward with confidence and purpose into 2024. 

Go Dees. 

 

 

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On 29/10/2023 at 13:44, WalkingCivilWar said:

4-5 games at Casey is 4-5 games too many, imo. I can’t think of a single reason to play home games there. You suggested the connection with and the growing of our game in the South East. If that’s the only positive, it’s not good enough.

As for a 19-round season, it won’t be ‘til 2027 that we’ll have a 17-round season (all teams play each other once). Next season there’ll be 11 rounds and most likely 12 rounds the year after. 

The best reason is probably a contract that may involve games as guaranteed. I don’t know MCW but as you know most other important facts within the Club you may care to check on our commitment there. 

The AFL have carefully eased us into Ikon Park as it was necessitated under their own KPI’s. They can’t increase rounds without certain crowds and TV audiences. Also they know they are in trouble when the big 4 play each other and struggle to get 3,000 or more, Ikon Park or no Ikon Park. 

I believe a 17 game season 8 home one year and 9 the next with 4 and 3 Casey games if contracted incorporated. Interstate at Casey and Blockbusters at Ikon. Maybe there just will never be a game vs Kangas that will draw more than 4/5,000! 

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11 hours ago, Craig T said:

And Sarah Lampard hopefully before the season is out.  Not to mention Gaby Colvin and Aimee Mackin both of whom could be right to go this week, too.

And Jordan Ivey, who’s confident she’ll be available before season’s end. 

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10 hours ago, 58er said:

They can’t increase rounds without certain crowds and TV audiences.

… except they can. And they are.

There’s an additional round next season and that’s unconditional. Ie. there’ll be 11 rounds regardless of crowd numbers and TV viewership. The goal this season was to achieve the minimum average crowd numbers and TV viewership in order to get a twelfth round.

It’s also a given that in 2027 there’ll be 17 rounds and everyone plays everyone else once.

But I think you’re right when you say playing at Casey might be a contractual obligation. I can’t see any other reason for us persisting with matches there. 

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On 30/10/2023 at 16:52, binman said:

If the teams all train regularly at Casey and there isn't in fact  baked in support down that way that translates into bigger crowds (noting that is a long term plan) then playing all our games at Princes park is an absolute no brainer. 

I'm in Altona and Casey is def an disincentive to watch the women play in terms of how long it takes to drive there and back - as is the wind effect too for that matter.

But I doubt i'd miss a game if all our games were at Princess Park.

As i have flagged before make it a Friday night event and promote the bejesus out of it so it is locked into people's mind that you can catch the dees at Princess park under lights every second Friday night.

Yeah doing a consistent Friday night game would make sense. Similarly, surely there's a weekend day early in the H&A season where they could book in Docklands and do two or even three games for a mini footy festival to advertise months in advance. Could sell some sections as one game only and others for the full day. Put the most skilled teams on, do group discounts tickets for community groups, create some buzz, and everyone leaves with a membership or a fixture in their hand so they know when to get along to "Princess" Park (hehe) or wherever.

And on that, listening to the W Podcast, they were talking about what Sydney's done up at Henson Park, where they've had really strong crowds this season, even before the team's form got rolling. They went back to basics and did an old-school letter drop in the days leading up to each home game, and that's where their ticket sales came from. Proof that specific targeting is better than just the generic "it's AFLW season" advertising that's full of feel-good buzzwords but little in the way of actual information. It's just now occurring to me that the AFL is not used to advertising in the way that's needed for the AFLW because, let's face it, they've basically got a captive audience for the men's.

4 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

But I think you’re right when you say playing at Casey might be a contractual obligation. I can’t see any other reason for us persisting with matches there. 

The only other thing I can think of is that it might be cheaper for the AFL to run a game at Casey than at Princes Park? Especially if their expecting a small crowd (though clearly that's a bit of a chicken and egg situation).

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4 minutes ago, Dees_In_October said:

Yeah doing a consistent Friday night game would make sense. Similarly, surely there's a weekend day early in the H&A season where they could book in Docklands and do two or even three games for a mini footy festival to advertise months in advance. Could sell some sections as one game only and others for the full day. Put the most skilled teams on, do group discounts tickets for community groups, create some buzz, and everyone leaves with a membership or a fixture in their hand so they know when to get along to "Princess" Park (hehe) or wherever.

And on that, listening to the W Podcast, they were talking about what Sydney's done up at Henson Park, where they've had really strong crowds this season, even before the team's form got rolling. They went back to basics and did an old-school letter drop in the days leading up to each home game, and that's where their ticket sales came from. Proof that specific targeting is better than just the generic "it's AFLW season" advertising that's full of feel-good buzzwords but little in the way of actual information. It's just now occurring to me that the AFL is not used to advertising in the way that's needed for the AFLW because, let's face it, they've basically got a captive audience for the men's.

The only other thing I can think of is that it might be cheaper for the AFL to run a game at Casey than at Princes Park? Especially if their expecting a small crowd (though clearly that's a bit of a chicken and egg situation).

I honestly would not have been aware of a lot of the AFLW matches (despite following the MFC AFLW and AFLW insta, and having both apps) without being engaged in Demonland and the Demon Army.  It's amazing how little I've noticed the marketing, despite it being very relevant to my interests!

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