21 minutes ago, Melbournepotter said:

In hindsight, Spargo may have made the difference in setting up forwards.  His delivery is usually pretty sound into forward 50. I'm not sure if that was the game for him though.

Anyone but Chandler who has been playing games for somthing he did at tge start of the year.

May go down as biggest missed opportunity to win multiple flags with so much talent. Our list mgt has done most things right but not sure why a premiership team can’t attract the gun fwd we need. Injuries haven’t been kind & expecting a young Jvr, Smith & Tmac in his last legs want see us winning a flag 

9 hours ago, deva5610 said:

What difference is it going to make. We bomb it to a pack of 6 with Fritsch or we bomb it to pack of 6 with OA. Same result. 😜

Yep, another kpf for sure but it's the shambolic nature of how we deliver it.

Made the trip south to watch the game and generally speaking, we turn to water when under pressure and just hack it forward. Props to Collingwood for their pressure early.

You could see us trying to take on the corridor later in the game but we've got to fix the offensive nature and process of the game coming off halfback.

Remember the days when we had great dashing runs from Langdon etc?

Our forward system and delivery is Pus.

Also, who posted that analysis last week about Melbourne winning just through the pure volume of forward entries?

 

1 hour ago, leucopogon said:

I think the problem is that our forwards are moving too much. They should play more like intercept defenders and just read the kick inside 50 off the boot rather than leading and putting themselves out of position. Why do you think Petty has been so effective as a forward? LoL

Also, please bring in a real forward coach, somebody like a Stevie J who can teach our small forward how to crumb. It's almost as big a flaw in our game as the slow, high, predictable kick to the forward pocket.

Too much id say not moving enough.

No method in leading patterns , barley any leads at all. Kick deep into a pocket or from defence long wide to a pack in the flank.

No one leads into space and demands the ball ,too many arms up signalling a long kick to the ball carrier. When we move it quick bomb long and high too deep.

The best entries in today's game is the kick into the centre area of the forward arc that is 25-35 out. We fail to do it as it forwards don't seem to lead or be there .

We seem to be happy with repeat entries and base our game on it , but we get so many because our entries are [censored] and the ball get spat out, to our well set up defence and pumped back in.  Rinse and repeat.

Also if we insist on playing this way we need genuine crumbers disciplined enough to stay down and crumb. Kozzie isn't and Chandler and ANB are not genuine crumbers and usually knackered from all the running they do to be dynamic in the forward 50

Edited September 7, 20231 yr by Bates Mate

43 minutes ago, Demonsone said:

May go down as biggest missed opportunity to win multiple flags with so much talent. Our list mgt has done most things right but not sure why a premiership team can’t attract the gun fwd we need. Injuries haven’t been kind & expecting a young Jvr, Smith & Tmac in his last legs want see us winning a flag 

Agree on that, but which genuine gun forward had changed clubs in the last 2-3 seasons. I can't recall any??

7 hours ago, Lloyd said:

What's crazy is, to my mind anyway, it doesn't seem that hard a fix at all. Isn't it just a case of Trac, Clarry, Viney being instructed as follows... "Ok guys, next match, when you're bursting out of stoppage towards our fifty, instead of doing dump kicks to packs, this time we're going to take that extra second, lower your eyes and survey the scene, and pass it to whoever is best placed to mark. And likewise, forwards, this time we want you leading to space when our midfielders are streaming towards fifty and about to kick. Just like you did throughout the 2021 granny (apart from the brief period where you started bombing it in.. but even then, remember, you soon reverted to good habits and better entries")

Done!

Maybe I'm missing something..

It's weird because we've all been having this conversation for years. The pressure backs off a little and we get cleaner and Fritta etc get decent opportunities. 

But then, pressure comes on and we revert to dumping and bombing again.

It's been so plain to see for a number of years now

 

14 minutes ago, Bates Mate said:

Agree on that, but which genuine gun forward had changed clubs in the last 2-3 seasons. I can't recall any??

No guns. 3 forwards traded last year, Lobb (spud, was always going to the dogs), McStay (pretty much a spud, always going to the pies), Weid (well.. we let him go).

We did the best we could with Grundy. I get more annoyed by the week that we haven’t found a way for it to work, Gawn was massive in the second half but beaten by their two rucks in the first half, and neither of those two are fit to shine his boots. 

Pretty much can't disagree with anything written on here. Lowered my expectations after the GWS game realising that this forward 50, kicking for goal malaise could raise its head an cost us at any time. We miss a few then it spreads through the whole side, that's mentally soft in my opinion. 

Still can't get the image of Fritsch lining up for goal and managing to send the ball at around 90 degrees away from where he was aiming.

Goody needs to take more responsibility and Stafford must go same problem over  and over and over.

 

 

 

 

39 minutes ago, Brownie said:

It's weird because we've all been having this conversation for years. The pressure backs off a little and we get cleaner and Fritta etc get decent opportunities. 

But then, pressure comes on and we revert to dumping and bombing again.

It's been so plain to see for a number of years now

 

Shambolic forward entries seemingly the plan, we had the inside 50s and scoring shots to win it last night but couldnt clunk em or kick em.  Inaccuracy was a killer, as you said we seem to oscillate in effectiveness with this tactic. 

We've had a bit of a cursed year for forwards which hasnt helped. Only managed 6 games this season with Petty/JvR/Fritsch in the same team.  Melk ACL when hitting form, BBB/TMac only playing 7 each etc. I doubt the plan will change even with different personnel but some new heads are needed in the forwardline.

 

It will be interesting to see if the media raise the issue of us re signing goody to soon if we do lose next week 

1 hour ago, Demonsone said:

May go down as biggest missed opportunity to win multiple flags with so much talent. Our list mgt has done most things right but not sure why a premiership team can’t attract the gun fwd we need. Injuries haven’t been kind & expecting a young Jvr, Smith & Tmac in his last legs want see us winning a flag 

I don’t think any gun forward would want to sit under high balls every week like we demand.

We are relying on very low probability marks (huge pack marks) to generate scores and we are asking two undersized players (Fritta and Smith) to be the ones doing it. If you were Fritta (who was very proppy all night), this is the hardest possible way to impact a game/earn a wage. Also, the most risky being in contests with 6-8 blokes all night

The most damning thing is every team mentions how they want to keep the ball away from May and Lever because of how they control the air, yet we actively kick to Moore/Murphy/Howe in this way and let them do it to us

Edited September 7, 20231 yr by BW511

2 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

Anyone but Chandler who has been playing games for somthing he did at tge start of the year.

He had a very good first half winning some vital contests. Was far from our worst 

1 minute ago, DeeSpencer said:

He had a very good first half winning some vital contests. Was far from our worst 

Disagree. He had a cameo performance on the wing there where  he danced around 3 pies players . Was unsighted in the second half. Totally. 

2 hours ago, Demonsone said:

May go down as biggest missed opportunity to win multiple flags with so much talent. Our list mgt has done most things right but not sure why a premiership team can’t attract the gun fwd we need. Injuries haven’t been kind & expecting a young Jvr, Smith & Tmac in his last legs want see us winning a flag 

McKay last year feels like one of the worst mistakes and missed opportunities.

Yet when Petty plays we don't bomb the ball in. 

Backlines may keep you in a game or season for a while.

But forward lines win flags.

Always was. Will always be.

Consecutive straight sets for us I think. Carlton will most definitely win tonight.

They defend their D50 better than anyone. 

 

19 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

Backlines may keep you in a game or season for a while.

But forward lines win flags.

Always was. Will always be.

💯. The coaches and media were lauding our defensive prowess but no one was pointing out that we were averaging 60-70pts the last 3 weeks before this game.

Brown, TMAC, Fritsch, Petty, Melksham - all forwards and all have been injured for significant parts of the year or currently incapacitated.

Perhaps there is a link between the players you have on the ground (and their caliber) and your chances of winning...

Matter of fact - if you Google AFL Injury Ladder and AFL Ladder - there is a remarkable resemblance.. year after year after year...

 

4 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

💯. The coaches and media were lauding our defensive prowess but no one was pointing out that we were averaging 60-70pts the last 3 weeks before this game.

...which would have won last night's game.

Just saying.

I think I said this earlier this year, but.......teams beat us well when they play on quickly and don't give our zone time to set-up and get behind the ball and take intercept marks. Oppo teams know that we just bomb it in, so they set-up with most players in our forward 50 and we just kick it to them. 

I think we did it once this year, cant remember the opposition, but we hit up short leads on or just inside the 50. We did it for the first quarter only, and it worked and forced their defence out of our 50 to man up. Once this happened we could kick it longer and deeper without having packs of 20 players flying for the same ball.

I'm not an AFL coach by any stretch, but surely they saw this work and went, "hey that's a pretty good option if we have so many inside 50's but can't score".

Not rocket surgery.

 

7 minutes ago, Timothy Reddan-A'Blew said:

...which would have won last night's game.

Just saying.

...to which I add:

Since we got our 'radar' back in Rd17 and before last night (109.80), 7.11 and at least 3 out on the full becomes 11.8, 10.9.

14 hours ago, RyanD said:

This!!!

Anyone who speaks about the forward line is letting off players like Trac, Oliver, Viney and co. Champion players, they are the reason we dominate contested ball, but they are also the reason we are so poor going inside 50. It's pretty damn simple. Work out who kicks the ball the most going inside 50 and those players are the ones causing the issue. 

Just a point of support to our hard working mids - if you watch a game from high down the ground, the forwards usually huddle and remain huddled as the mids bring the ball forward, so they are left with nobody to kick to other than the static huddle. 
That is what needs to change - I can’t remember which game, maybe Saints, but there was a lot more spread giving the mids multiple viable target, even if sometimes only 50/50.

14 hours ago, Lloyd said:

What's crazy is, to my mind anyway, it doesn't seem that hard a fix at all. Isn't it just a case of Trac, Clarry, Viney being instructed as follows... "Ok guys, next match, when you're bursting out of stoppage towards our fifty, instead of doing dump kicks to packs, this time we're going to take that extra second, lower your eyes and survey the scene, and pass it to whoever is best placed to mark. And likewise, forwards, this time we want you leading to space when our midfielders are streaming towards fifty and about to kick. Just like you did throughout the 2021 granny (apart from the brief period where you started bombing it in.. but even then, remember, you soon reverted to good habits and better entries")

Done!

Maybe I'm missing something..

 

The moment we sent 3 long balls to three forwards forming in the same spot I knew we were doomed to not score. This needs to change to become a true elite side. I cannot believe how quickly how forward line turns into a pop gun attack when we do this. It is easy to prepare for and we barely ever lock it in or get any crumbing opportunities from it. 

Total joke.

16 hours ago, Gorgoroth said:

At years end if we don’t move on from Stafford and /or Yze then nothing will change from the last few years.

I'd say the last few years have been very good!