PREGAME: Rd 22 vs Carlton

[Jaded No More 68,972]

18 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

I'd be of the mind to play Gawn, Petracca, Oliver and Viney at the centre bounce in the first quarter and a half just to put the contest to bed. Let Petracca drift forward after that.

Where does Gus play?

I would also give Kosi some more time on ball. He is super productive in there on low minutes, and can exploit Carlton's lack of speed in the middle.

[Timothy Reddan-A'Blew 5,272]

I like Grundy in for Petty. However, Goodwin made a bit of a point of how Petty and Van Rooyen combined being part of the last 2 weeks of success in the forward line. Grundy can possibly match Petty in individual capabilities but I wonder whether the 'combo' effect can be matched? Can that be trained, and embedded, particularly in the short time frame since the need arose?

[Whispering_Jack 30,581]

On 8/6/2023 at 4:59 PM, DubDee said:

Hibbo wasn’t in the 22

But he was in the 23 which means it counts on his games played and on that basis, if he doesn’t play on Saturday night, he’s regarded as an “out”.

Personally, I would keep him in.

I normally don’t like selecting teams but my team this week would include:-

In: Grundy Oliver (both of them are All-Australians)

Out: Harmes (omitted - let’s face it, someone has to make way for Clarrie) Petty (leg) 

Joel Smith is the most super of subs in the competition so that’s where he starts.

I’m personally not impressed by all the palaver about Brodie Grundy. I think we need him this week and that he will hold his place in the team for the remainder of the season, especially now that Petty’s out.

I don’t think this is an original team but if it works, I’ll happily claim the credit.

[beelzebub 23,382]

2 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

But he was in the 23 which means it counts on his games played and on that basis, if he doesn’t play on Saturday night, he’s regarded as an “out”.

Personally, I would keep him in.

I normally don’t like selecting teams but my team this week would include:-

In: Grundy Oliver (both of them are All-Australians)

Out: Harmes (omitted - let’s face it, someone has to make way for Clarrie) Petty (leg) 

Joel Smith is the most super of subs in the competition so that’s where he starts.

I’m personally not impressed by all the palaver about Brodie Grundy. I think we need him this week and that he will hold his place in the team for the remainder of the season, especially now that Petty’s out.

I don’t think this is an original team but if it works, I’ll happily claim the credit.

Sounds ok to me 

[Jjrogan 1,439]

Hope Grundy separates away from Gawn as much as possible this weekend. 

Eg When Gawn and Grundy both fly for May's kick outs a huge pack typically develops and it completely negates the advantage that Gawn has for 1 on 1 or even 2 on 2.  It's been very noticeable that Gawn has been a much better target without Grundy (and Grundy's man).  

 

 

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,936]

In - Tomlinson, Oliver

Out - Petty, Harmes, Hibberd (to start as sub again)

 

Using the template of the Brisbane game when we kicked 16 goals without Petty in the forward line.

1) Joel Smith takes BBB's spot as one of our tall forwards.

2) Tomlinson takes Petty's spot as the third tall defender. May and Lever are a disaster without that supporting key defender that Tomo or Petty provides.

Hibberd's a good sub option as Goodwin can assess which Carlton forward is doing the most damage. Hibberd can come and curtail that forward and perhaps sub out Tomlinson if we're too tall.

Tossed up between JJ or Harmes making way for Clarry. Went Harmes as he's just too incompetent with the footy these days. The two poor misses against Richmond or the kicking out of bounds on the full from a 10 metre chip pass on the wing against North last week amongst his other clangers.

Goodwin would make a great poker player if he selects Grundy. His demeanour and body language have been getting less and less enthusiastic about the potential of Grundy's return as each week has passed.

[deelusions from afar 1,855]

@binman or anyone else listen to Sando's Strategy session on Whatley today?

 

I again think he's overrated.  He references losing McDonald (I think he meant Petty) and then goes on to talk about the different styles of Melbourne and Carlton.   He said Carlton is all about winning at the contest and defending really well.  I thought our mantra was "contest and defence"?

He said Melbourne will want it to be a fast transitional free flowing game whereas Carlton will want methodical, stoppage, scoring from contest.  But also said how Melbourne had scored so many goals from stoppage last week.  And also said Carlton's great wins this year have come from turnovers in the transition coming back the other way. 🤔

 

In my view both teams are quite similar in style.  Both pride themselves in winning the ball in the contest and score that way when they can.  The other way they score is through turnovers (as do almost every other team).

 

Why do people rate Sando?

 

[jnrmac 20,154]

From memory last time we played Carlton we trialled a change in game plan the week before the pies game. 

 

We played a very high restrictive pies and held Carlton to a v low score. We would have smashed them but for poor kicking which was something like 8g 17b

I imagine we'll do similar

[binman 43,718]

29 minutes ago, deelusions from afar said:

@binman or anyone else listen to Sando's Strategy session on Whatley today?

 

I again think he's overrated.  He references losing McDonald (I think he meant Petty) and then goes on to talk about the different styles of Melbourne and Carlton.   He said Carlton is all about winning at the contest and defending really well.  I thought our mantra was "contest and defence"?

He said Melbourne will want it to be a fast transitional free flowing game whereas Carlton will want methodical, stoppage, scoring from contest.  But also said how Melbourne had scored so many goals from stoppage last week.  And also said Carlton's great wins this year have come from turnovers in the transition coming back the other way. 🤔

 

In my view both teams are quite similar in style.  Both pride themselves in winning the ball in the contest and score that way when they can.  The other way they score is through turnovers (as do almost every other team).

 

Why do people rate Sando?

 

I did actually.

I really like sando, and was a pretty good segment this week - particularly his analysis of where the Pies are at.

But on that analysis about the Pies, there was a couple of strange omissions i thought.

Sanderson has, all season (rightly too I might add) highlighted how critical the Pies fitness is to their game plan.

And he has made the point on multiple occasions that they are 'by far' the fittest team in the comp and it is the key reason why he believes they are (were?)so far ahead of every other team - even comparing their advantage to ours in 2021 (he said that is why were so dominant ie we so much fitter than every other team - stronger for longer was his description of us in 2021 and the pies this year).

Weird then that he didn't mention fitness at all in his analysis of why the Pies have come back to the filed, particularly becuase they def looked fatigued against the Hawks. 

And it was made weirder still by the fact that on last week's show someone texted in with a question for him about 'pre finals loading' and rather than answer it Whately said they would hold it over till this week. Sando said it's a great question and he would prepare something. 

On his analysis of the dees v blues game, i thought the exact same thing as you DFAS. In fact i decided i would text in and say as much (something i rarely do).

I sent the following text directly after the segment, so with about an hour of Whately's show - so plenty of time to read it out. He didn't (yes it's long, no surprises there from me, but he often reads out much longer texts):

Binman from Altona. 

G'day Gerard. 

I look forward to sando's slot every week. Fantasic analysis and i always learn something new. 

But with all due respect to sando, i think he got the dees v blues game wrong in terms of two distinct game styles.

In a nutshell, i think the blues have in fact modelled their game plan on the Melbourne game plan. 

Sando's point about Melbourne playing fast flowing transition football of late is correct, but as Goodwin has said many times this season the Demon DNA is forward half territory football, defence, and win the contest. 

Just like Voss has implemented at Carlton.

Makes sense because the tiger's template model has won every flag since 2017, bar 2018 with the Eagles being an outlier. 

Another analyst i really enjoy on SEN is Daniel Hoyne. He is fantastic and i am much persuaded by his opinion that the reason for the blues dramatic turn around has not been their improvement in the stoppages and contest, but rather bringing in players like Cunningham and Cottrell to play the high half forward role (that Spargo and Neale-Bullen play at Melbourne) to fix their issues with transitioning the ball and stopping the oppo doing the same.

But in terms of the contest, winning stopes and clearances, the demons will be very hard to beat on that front. In their last four matches' Melbourne are averaging north of 50 points from stoppages, which is very high. 

The blues are indeed in very good form, but so are Melbourne.

I can't see the Blues beating the demons in the contest OR on transition.

Melbourne will be too strong i think.

[binman 43,718]

19 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

From memory last time we played Carlton we trialled a change in game plan the week before the pies game. 

 

We played a very high restrictive pies and held Carlton to a v low score. We would have smashed them but for poor kicking which was something like 8g 17b

I imagine we'll do similar

Yep, spot on.

The blues, who had been struggling to transition the ball and had been very stodgy with their ball movement, had said they were going to have a real focus on fast, pies like ball movement. 

And we completely took that away from them by creating density, taking the corridor away and forcing them down the line.

Just as we did the following week against the Pies (the original, and seemingly forgotten blueprint to beat the Pies). 

It will be really interesting to see if we employ the same method this week.

I suspect we may go with a hybrid method.

Hold them and restrict ball movement like last time.

Try and stop them getting momentum, but when they inevitably do, make it really hard for them to take advantage of it.

But when we get momentum, go fast and look to open them up and bang on quick scores in the way we have been employing since the Saints game.

Edited August 10, 2023 by binman

[Jaded No More 68,972]

3 minutes ago, binman said:

 

But when we get momentum, go fast and look to open them up and bang on quick scores.

Their defence has tightened, but with fast ball movement it can still come apart. Weitering is an absolute star, but the rest of their defenders are only so so. 

I would like to see Melksham play on Weitering in this instance. 

If we can get the advantage in and around stoppage, I reckon we will move it quickly to exploit their defence. Particularly without Petty, we will need to try and move it quicker as well, so we can find some space for our small forwards to work into. 

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by Jaded No More

[deelusions from afar 1,855]

17 minutes ago, binman said:

I did actually.

I really like sando, and was a pretty good segment this week - particularly his analysis of where the Pies are at.

But on that analysis about the Pies, there was a couple of strange omissions i thought.

Sanderson has, all season (rightly too I might add) highlighted how critical the Pies fitness is to their game plan.

And he has made the point on multiple occasions that they are 'by far' the fittest team in the comp and it is the key reason why he believes they are (were?)so far ahead of every other team - even comparing their advantage to ours in 2021 (he said that is why were so dominant ie we so much fitter than every other team - stronger for longer was his description of us in 2021 and the pies this year).

Weird then that he didn't mention fitness at all in his analysis of why the Pies have come back to the filed, particularly becuase they def looked fatigued against the Hawks. 

And it was made weirder still by the fact that on last week's show someone texted in with a question for him about 'pre finals loading' and rather than answer it Whately said they would hold it over till this week. Sando said it's a great question and he would prepare something. 

On his analysis of the dees v blues game, i thought the exact same thing as you DFAS. In fact i decided i would text in and say as much (something i rarely do).

I sent the following text directly after the segment, so with about an hour of Whately's show - so plenty of time to read it out. He didn't (yes it's long, no surprises there from me, but he often reads out much longer texts):

Binman from Altona. 

G'day Gerard. 

I look forward to sando's slot every week. Fantasic analysis and i always learn something new. 

But with all due respect to sando, i think he got the dees v blues game wrong in terms of two distinct game styles.

In a nutshell, i think the blues have in fact modelled their game plan on the Melbourne game plan. 

Sando's point about Melbourne playing fast flowing transition football of late is correct, but as Goodwin has said many times this season the Demon DNA is forward half territory football, defence, and win the contest. 

Just like Voss has implemented at Carlton.

Makes sense because the tiger's template model has won every flag since 2017, bar 2018 with the Eagles being an outlier. 

Another analyst i really enjoy on SEN is Daniel Hoyne. He is fantastic and i am much persuaded by his opinion that the reason for the blues dramatic turn around has not been their improvement in the stoppages and contest, but rather bringing in players like Cunningham and Cottrell to play the high half forward role (that Spargo and Neale-Bullen play at Melbourne) to fix their issues with transitioning the ball and stopping the oppo doing the same.

But in terms of the contest, winning stopes and clearances, the demons will be very hard to beat on that front. In their last four matches' Melbourne are averaging north of 50 points from stoppages, which is very high. 

The blues are indeed in very good form, but so are Melbourne.

I can't see the Blues beating the demons in the contest OR on transition.

Melbourne will be too strong i think.

Agree with you on all of that - although maybe not quite as confident as you about this weekend ... but maybe I'm just managing my expectations (or mental health) should we not get up!

[Roost it far 8,575]

14 minutes ago, binman said:

Yep, spot on.

The blues, who had been struggling to transition the ball and had been very stodgy with their ball movement, had said they were going to have a real focus on fast, pies like ball movement. 

And we completely took that away from them by creating density, taking the corridor away and forcing them down the line.

Just as we did the following week against the Pies (the original, and seemingly forgotten blueprint to beat the Pies). 

It will be really interesting to see if we employ the same method this week.

I suspect we may go with a hybrid method.

Hold them and restrict ball movement like last time.

Try and stop them getting momentum, but when they inevitably do, make it really hard for them to take advantage of it.

But when we get momentum, go fast and look to open them up and bang on quick scores in the way we have been employing since the Saints game.

My Collingwood friend is adamant the Pies have been loading

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,906]

13 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Their defence has tightened, but with fast ball movement it can still come apart. Weitering is an absolute star, but the rest of their defenders are only so so. 

I would like to see Melksham play on Weitering in this instance. 

If we can get the advantage in and around stoppage, I reckon we will move it quickly to exploit their defence. Particularly without Petty, we will need to try and move it quicker as well, so we can find some space for our small forwards to work into. 

 

If we do this, can everyone promise not to judge Melksham just on the number of goals and disposals he has?

[bing181 9,328]

3 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

My Collingwood friend is adamant the Pies have been loading

Loading is the new black.

[binman 43,718]

1 minute ago, bing181 said:

Loading is the new black.

....and white

[Nascent 9,280]

No presser this week?

[Sydee 4,529]

1 minute ago, Nascent said:

No presser this week?

Probably called it off because the only question would be - are Grundy and Oliver playing? 

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,936]

22 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Their defence has tightened, but with fast ball movement it can still come apart. Weitering is an absolute star, but the rest of their defenders are only so so. 

I would like to see Melksham play on Weitering in this instance. 

 

I think Melksham played on Weitering late last year and he played his career best game with 4 snags.

[Demon_spurs 1,867]

7 hours ago, binman said:

Juts heard, it's going to happen.

Which is great.

I had planned to go to Fed square, but it will be impossible to get into it i reckon (unless you get there at 12pm).

And now i can just go the G, top of the Ponsford, get a good GA seat and watch the tillies roll the les bleus .

And then watch the dees roll the blues. 

Sporting gold.

Sorry I don't normally correct but it's les bleues not les bleus (wiki: The France women's national football team has been known or nicknamed as the "Les Bleues (The Blues)".)

Let's hope both "The Blues " lose tomorrow night

 

But great info Bin

[layzie 33,989]

In: Grundy, Oliver 

Out: Petty, Harmes.

That simple 

[Dee Zephyr 19,268]

What is the expected crowd? Tried for an extra upgraded ticket tonight and it says all Level 1 exhausted. Level 4 seats only available.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,906]

47 minutes ago, Demon_spurs said:

Sorry I don't normally correct but it's les bleues not les bleus (wiki: The France women's national football team has been known or nicknamed as the "Les Bleues (The Blues)".)

Let's hope both "The Blues " lose tomorrow night

 

But great info Bin

Saturday night. But, yes, agree.

[rpfc 28,738]

7 hours ago, Deebauched said:

Did the public interest in womens soccer start with the success the US team had in recent years?

Australia basically copies everything the yanks do.

Due to the power and massive influence of the 4th and 5th estates Im assuming its the corporate media that got the consumer fired up about womens soccer.

Australia has changed so much since i moved o/seas.  Its weird.

[beelzebub 23,382]

1 hour ago, binman said:

Yep, spot on.

The blues, who had been struggling to transition the ball and had been very stodgy with their ball movement, had said they were going to have a real focus on fast, pies like ball movement. 

And we completely took that away from them by creating density, taking the corridor away and forcing them down the line.

Just as we did the following week against the Pies (the original, and seemingly forgotten blueprint to beat the Pies). 

It will be really interesting to see if we employ the same method this week.

I suspect we may go with a hybrid method.

Hold them and restrict ball movement like last time.

Try and stop them getting momentum, but when they inevitably do, make it really hard for them to take advantage of it.

But when we get momentum, go fast and look to open them up and bang on quick scores in the way we have been employing since the Saints game.

If i remember the prior Blues game ..imho.. where they came unstuck was they were hampered once the got past the centre.  Their 'next' kick invariably 'dried up' as all targets were covered..   this caused hesitation...and as we all know ....he who hesitates is lost... 😀