Garry Lyon analysis

[rjay 24,928]

18 minutes ago, Watson11 said:

How about he instruct at least one to lead at the ball carrier and not all run to the same spot. Even better, how about he instruct them never to kick long to a pack, and always kick to advantage.  If you want to see how it works when you have a mediocre bunch of roles players in your forward 50 go and watch Collingwood.

Their forward options are way ahead of ours.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

3 hours ago, Cheap Seats said:

Been happening for a long time. Even in 2021 it was an issue throughout the season. It just clicked when it mattered.

The burning of the free players to bomb it in really ticks me off.

 

Barring Viney on occasions, most players coming towards the arc fail to pull up a step....then glance, even for a split second to see if there's an open option or a lead.  Not that many within our forward line lead that well or often.

Instead most just run towards the arc in a blind panic and blaze away.  Petracca one of the worst offenders here, closely followed by Sparrow.

Im not sure where Clarry sits but wouldn't think he'd be much chop here either on most occasions.  I could be wrong though as things have gone to pooop since he's been out.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[beelzebub 23,377]

9 minutes ago, rjay said:

Their forward options are way ahead of ours.

You know its interesting,  to me, in a fashion.  Much is made by our Brains Trust of backing our system, backing our players.

Take same players, change the 'system'....and back them in. 

We have options.... but don't use them.

 

[DemonOX 8,791]

3 hours ago, Dee Boys said:

No it shows that they’re dumb footballers whose skills aren’t good enough. ANB, who despite being a trier and a great clubman, sums that up.

U can throw Harmes in there too. 

Edited July 4, 2023 by DemonOX

[beelzebub 23,377]

40 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Barring Viney on occasions, most players coming towards the arc fail to pull up a step....then glance, even for a split second to see if there's an open option or a lead.  Not that many within our forward line lead that well or often.

Instead most just run towards the arc in a blind panic and blaze away.  Petracca one of the worst offenders here, closely followed by Sparrow.

Im not sure where Clarry sits but wouldn't think he'd be much chop here either on most occasions.  I could be wrong though as things have gone to pooop since he's been out.

Strangely,  perhaps,  for some, Spargo is one of the few ive noticed with enough acumen and awareness to slow or stop and allow the opposition wave to pass ( momentarily) sufficient to open up a team mate.  Kozzi can also.  Langers can.

We just dont play the "game" to provide for these smarts ...imo..

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

With respect to Garry's article and the third and fourth passages of play.....

It would appear this coaching group or some of them, along with a number of mids / wingers & forwards, are incapable of turning this particular aspect around.  Even after seeing it on their review vision from the week before!!  Assuming it was shown!!????

Posted this just after the loss to the cats....

Demon Dynasty    12,308

Posted June 22

Would be up there with the worst teams in the AFL in wet weather or slippery conditions.

The over use of short dinky handballs to players a foot or two away under pressure instead of the quick kick forward in the wet was astonishingly poor football at this level from Goodwin down, with a few player exceptions.  Viney being the main one.

Yes i place a large part of the blame here on the coach as he apparently doesn't appear capable of getting this group to change up the way we usually play vs what is needed in wet or slippery conditions.

Any team watching us vs the Lions & tonight will figure themselves in with a serious chance of an easy kill if playing us in these conditions bar maybe the bottom two or three.

And the bulk of teams would have cleaned the Cats up tonight.  We were woeful.

Im not a big fan of the dual rucks in inclement weather.  I would play one as the sub and just change out if needed at some stage when / if tickets are spent.

It robs us of an extra running player on the outside with some skills that can finish our extraction work coming inside 50 and in general play.

Our forward craft and mid / forward connection lack of cohesion is still bog ordinary

After 1.5 seasons of trying to improve, it continues to be a dog's breakfast (at best).

Example... Hunter kicking it to Pickett in a two v one as the FF towards the end there.  Hilarious.

Such a frustrating team to watch in the wet.  And an under performing one (paper vs performance/outcome) imv.

The whole coaching crew and the playing group needs to look in the mirror in terms of....

> how poorly we play in wet/slippery conditions

> generaly poor forward structure, particularly at CHF as mentioned above.

> Still unable to hit targets coming inside very often

> All talls playing deep and sitting back when a surge is on, no one leading at the ball carrier.

[layzie 33,810]

Totally forgot about the Nibbler whiffed kick to Hunter, just a simple pop up would have done it.

[WERRIDEE 5,479]

32 minutes ago, layzie said:

Totally forgot about the Nibbler whiffed kick to Hunter, just a simple pop up would have done it.

Nibbler has cost us the game twice now time for him to be dropped. The kick that went to no one off the side of his boot on the half forward line. Probably cost us the game. 

[Oakridge Demons 27]

3 hours ago, rjay said:

I think the forwards are putting pressure on the disposal...but in reality that's the easy bit.

Better they get the ball and put pressure on the scoreboard.

Maybe only problem with moving salem/bowey from backline is who are the other good ball users in backline, i like the idea, but im thinking all will happen is more turnovers in backline.

We just dont seem to have enough good ball users, suggest that is why we play the defence 1st system, will be competitive every year but like ross lyon coached sides just not good enough to beat the best year to year.

#thankgodfor21

[praha 11,240]

Still just in awe that some posters here were calling for Jvr to be dumped for Brown.

Tomlinson in to replace Fritsch, move Petty forward. JVR in to replace Brown. Drop Brown. Woewodinncjs in for Harmes. Throw Woey and Pickett in the middle and force Petracca forward. Rotate Pickett and Petracca.

I understand Oliver is a key missing link here but Viney has played a key role. We've lost Petracca's presence forward and Pickett never playing in the middle absolutely dries up our pace throuhlgh the corridor.

I am just still gobsmacked about the team changes on the weekend. Melksham, Brown and Harmes. We have young guns absolutely smoking it up in the VFL and we go with three guys who can barely keep pace anymore. I love the three of them but we badly need to move on. What a shocking selection misstep that was.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

We hate the wet

Expect a massive showing against the Saints on a dry track this week

I hope Schache gets a gig

[IRW 1,387]

2 hours ago, DemonOX said:

U can throw Harmes in there too. 

 you think Harmes is the problem?

More like the scapegoat.

The A graders are the problem 

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,798]

7 hours ago, Demonsone said:

Spot & laughable with forwards not leading to ball carrier plus players torching free teammates is this selfish or just dumb plays 

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/melbourne-demons/afl-news-2023-melbourne-demons-stats-garry-lyon-exposes-issues-on-fox-footy-on-the-couch/news-story/b0f7da9aafb06a6db683ace5230b5905?fbclid=IwAR2KN7LUYw58doNBygAj7b4qCXiQVVunCHbQsf3LbGvlApitZw43TvHBM8w_aem_AXVyVBMKuYAGiqbtbiyhSYZsTJY722i-LmyojPk5uIINDQ3LmVMG0lB5u6hZpDfAAPw&mibextid=Zxz2cZ

I don’t listen to Mr “Get Neeld” Lyon.

Hes out of touch with Melbourne.

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,798]

37 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

We hate the wet

Expect a massive showing against the Saints on a dry track this week

I hope Schache gets a gig

I thought Scache looked pretty poor at Casey. Doesn’t go in hard.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Jumping Jack Clennett
Typo

[drdrake 3,174]

It is the same problem we have had for many years, we can't kick.  We play a game style that suits our players skill level.  Put the ball long to a contest get numbers to the contest win the ball with numbers.

Issue is every team knows where we are kicking the footy, they are getting numbers to the contest.  We are predictable and unfortunately don't have enough players that can hit that low hard 30 to 35m kick to a dangerous lead or into the middle of the ground.

[BoBo 2,941]

36 minutes ago, drdrake said:

It is the same problem we have had for many years, we can't kick.  We play a game style that suits our players skill level.  Put the ball long to a contest get numbers to the contest win the ball with numbers.

Issue is every team knows where we are kicking the footy, they are getting numbers to the contest.  We are predictable and unfortunately don't have enough players that can hit that low hard 30 to 35m kick to a dangerous lead or into the middle of the ground.

Yup.

 

I want to see Mcvee/Bowie/Salem playing forward flank. I want to see a forward line that is in constant motion and for one of these guys to be hitting targets inside 50. 
 

We’re on a trajectory of failure if we keep doing what we’re doing. Change things up, keep the forward line moving and hit targets in front of goal. 
 

If we lose, we lose. Move on to the next plan. We cannot keep doing what we are doing. 

[jacey 333]

1 hour ago, drdrake said:

It is the same problem we have had for many years, we can't kick.  We play a game style that suits our players skill level.  Put the ball long to a contest get numbers to the contest win the ball with numbers.

Issue is every team knows where we are kicking the footy, they are getting numbers to the contest.  We are predictable and unfortunately don't have enough players that can hit that low hard 30 to 35m kick to a dangerous lead or into the middle of the ground.

We kick to the same spots as data will show that's the percentage play. Chance to score but also the hardest spot to rebound quickly and we get repeat 50s.

The problem is everyone knows where it's going and it's always 3 defenders to 1. There's no seperation.  

Its just pure stubbornness to not change cause we won a premiership with that model. The problem with that is other teams improve post 2021. They also learn and set up against our predictability.

We need to evolve but we won't.

[Jjrogan 1,420]

7 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

This has to be the most damning stat of all:

"According to Champion Data, Melbourne is overall the best contested possession team in the competition. Specifically, Simon Goodwin’s side is ranked first in the league for contested possessions won in both the defensive 50 and midfield.

But alarmingly, the Dees are ranked 16th for contested ball in their forward 50"

Even if the talls bring it to ground our ground level players can't win it.  So we are losing in the air and on the ground.

So much for having so many defensive forwards!!  

Going throw something out there to address this lack of contested wins inside 50. 

Play Clarry forward for a time this week instead of Trac.  Yes, the obvious one is Trac but our midfield has shown covering Clarry has simply not been a problem as we've dominated clearances and contested regardless.  Also I don't see Trac hitting the side of a barn even if he gets the ball in space right now.  It's something the opposition would not expect (Lyon will have a plan for Trac with all the noise those week?) and it might be a way of easing him post hamstring. 

And before the Co13 worshippers here lose their collective minds for the suggestion, remember Martin, Fyfe and Cripps have all played out of the goal square with good effect.  Great players find a way to win the ball.  Oliver is good in the air, and he will draw numbers on the ground. He's so good and competitive, he will clear traffic and set up some goals off his first posession. Guaranteed.  

It's time to be creative and change the mix slightly. Our current approach is too predictable 

[spirit of norm smith 16,461]

You want answers. You want the truth. 

here’s some solutions to start 

1- forwards must lead and farrkkkn DEMAND the footy 

not hang back and wait for the up and under bomb 

2- use your preferred/correct foot 

too many times, players have time and space and yet choose to use their “non preferred” foot to kick - and often it’s a turnover or error.  Names ? yes you kozzzzy, yes you ANB, yes you Harmesy.  Steady and hit the target. 

3- lower your eyes with entries inside 50. 

Don’t bomb it long all the time. Sure under pressure you do have to but we are not always under pressure 

and sometimes actually kick to space to make forwards run to the footy !!! Not just to stationary players waving their arms like drowning swimmers  

4- Forwards, get in front. It’s an old saying but it works.  Haynes from the giants owned the intercepts as kicks fell short and our forwards were constantly behind 

5- Kozzzy stop going for the spectacular mark. The last 17 haven’t worked so don’t compete in the big pack marks. Front and centre or get out the back. Not to the side. Watch the crumbers like Greene, Cameron and Papley. 
 

I was only a humble suburban footballer and not an expert like Lyon, Brown or Brereton. But through the ages, footy can be a simple game with simple strategies.  

[Demonsone 2,037]

Can someone in the media actually refer to this & get Goodwin to respond as this could be the biggest missed opportunity for a team with such strong dominance  to not win another flag!

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

10 hours ago, rjay said:

 

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by JimmyGadson
Please delete

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

6 hours ago, DemonOX said:

U can throw Harmes in there too. 

Genuinely can't believe we still play him. 

Offers nothing. 

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

10 hours ago, rjay said:

I'm not a fan of Gary's analysis at the best of times. I think he's been out of the game for far too long to be relevant.

Also he has never coached at the level.

Unfortunately this is the case with most of the so called experts.

They are really not football experts they are football personalities.

Maybe Hardwick would be interesting for a year or so but unfortunately I think coaches who want to get back in the game hold their cards too close and don't really give everything away.

 

Lol. 

He's been in the game/media since he retired! 

Even if his footage and analysis isn't ground breaking, it is still absolutely relevant. 

And far more relevant than what you have to say. As well as all others who seem to have a chip on their shoulder due to the fact that he actually critiques us from time to time. 

Some supporters simply can't take it if the club is criticised. Ye old mate @Rhino Richardsis one who consistently 'likes' the defending brigade or 'faceplams' posts that criticise us.

How's that armchair going ol' rhino boy! 

Edited July 4, 2023 by JimmyGadson

[Mel Bourne 4,515]

5 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

Nibbler has cost us the game twice now time for him to be dropped. The kick that went to no one off the side of his boot on the half forward line. Probably cost us the game. 

Yes, that was frustrating as all hell. But you don’t blame an individual for “costing us the game” because that particular individual made an error in the dying minutes of the match. Games are won or lost over four quarters of football. 

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

It all starts with bad team selection and the right mix of forwards being out of whack.