Garry Lyon analysis

[Macca 16,173]

54 minutes ago, rjay said:

Even that part of the game in Brisbane early this year after the outage.

We came on and threw everything at it and nearly got the win.

I would like to see us move away from the current conservative game.

It's going to be an interesting watch over the rest of this season.

We just have to tweak things a bit, it doesn't need to be that dramatic a change

Just normal inside 50 forays.  Forwards leading out to the hot spot with other forwards making other leads, dummy leads or leads to draw defenders away from where the ball is to be kicked

As a last resort, lead to the boundary line (my pet hate)

And the leads need to be honoured but not every time.  A lot depends on where the opposition defenders are situated.  We have to be smart about it ... just like the Pies, Port & Lions are (smart)

But it starts at half back or from stoppages.  And our wingman can kick inboard or run inboard.  We need to take on the corridor in rapid style

Slow ball movement coupled with boundary hugging allows the opposition to flood back

Most here can see what I'm describing so it's not exactly news

It's just footy forward forays 101.  It's nothing startling, rjay

If kicking only 5 goals from 73 inside 50's isn't a wake up call I don't know what is

Even with a dodgy forward line (in terms of personnel) we shouldn't be losing so many games

[Demon Dynasty 15,684]

3 hours ago, Macca said:

Take risks when entering the forward line and take risks from half-back (through the corridor)

Another loss gets us closer to not being a true contender so what have we got to lose?

Even more so without Fritsch because with our current non-productive style, he's been our only decent forward

The greatest risk is not taking a risk. Risk-free football is actually risky

What lives in our memory is have much dare we showed in 2021

Where has that gone?

I agree with this Macca.  Much more dare is needed and taking the game on.

That will take a major change of message from above though given what we've been witnessing in the last few months.

I also think we are somewhat restricted here from a personel perspective in terms of ability to execute switches, 45s and hit ups of leading forwards (if there were more leads forthcoming that is).

This is why i have been all for getting new blood into the team like Woe & Howes.

While neither are world leaders at passing / hitting up targets they at least are capable of it about 2/3rds of the time and are doing so at Casey on a regular basis.  No fear and playing with confidence!

Watching Casey's transition off HB, so often they'll look to switch across HB or 45 into the corridor.  They also do this as first instinct after exiting forward of the wing.

Often hitting a target at the top of the square which then changes/opens the angles coming inside 50 and often opens up the goal face for a genuine long bomb attempt from a high percentage spot.

Fpr those who may not habe had the chance of watching Casey's last match.... for a great example of this type of play go to 22:30 in the third quarter.

Check out the switch from Schache to Sestan on the middle of the forward square.  The rest is poetry, even though it doesn't end in a goal.

They will also just take the game on and go straight through the corridor off HB if they see an opening with good use of HB and overlap.

For another great example of this go to 7:30 into the third and watch how slick and well drilled this team is.

Fabulous ball movement from a number including Steele & Dunstan through the middle ending up with a lovely weighted kick to Schache who goes back and slots the set shot from 40 meters on a slight angle.

This is a well oiled & drilled group we are watching who are a good chance of going back to back this season subject to keeping the bulk of their present line up on the park.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[Macca 16,173]

38 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

I agree with this Macca.  Much more dare is needed and taking the game on.

That will take a major change of message from above though given what we've been witnessing in the last few months.

I also think we are somewhat restricted here from a personel perspective in terms of ability to execute switches, 45s and hit ups of leading forwards (if there were more leads forthcoming that is).

This is why i have been all for getting new blood into the team like Woe & Howes.

While neither are world leaders at passing they at least are capable of it about 2/3rds of the time and are doing so at Casey on a regular basis.

Watching Casey's transition off HB, so often they'll look to switch across HB or 45 into the corridor.  They also do this as first instinct after exiting forward of the wing.

Often hitting a target at the top of the square which then changes/opens the angles coming inside 50 and often opens up the goal face for a genuine long bomb attempt from a high percentage spot.

They will also just take the game on and go straight through the corridor off HB if they see an opening with good use of HB and overlap.  For a great example of this go to the third quarter,  7:30 minutes in and watch how slick and well drilled this team is.  Fabulous ball movement from a number including Steele & Dunstan through the middle ending up with a lovely weighted kick to Schache who goes back and slots the set shot from 40 meters on a slight angle.

This is a well oiled & drilled group we are watching who are a good chance of going back to back this season subject to keeping the bulk of their present line up on the park.

With the odd exception the best teams often take the most risks

We should back ourselves to defend well as a team if in the process of taking on the corridor and the forward line hot spot, we turn the ball over

For instance, Richmond won 3 flags whilst constantly giving away professional free kicks in their own forward line

Why? Because they knew if they gave the ball back to the opposition the opposition would in turn, turn the ball over against their all-over defence.  And on the counter-attack the Tigers would often score goals

Not every time of course but that was their method if a forward foray broke down, deep in their forward line

Edited July 6, 2023 by Macca

[Demon Dynasty 15,684]

1 hour ago, SFebes said:

I see the team practiced shots around poles etc for an extra hour before training the other day....but what I'm wondering is if they practiced leading at the ball kicker and forward entries that will equate to those shots? All well and good to practice shots at goal but still doesn't fix the problem with connection and delivery.......

I'm imagining they would be working on this aspect as well as changing angles before attempting to hit someone up inside on long and / or shorter shallow leads surely Febes.

Including timing and the ability of a forward to do this and the mid/hb with ball in hand outside 50 having the patience and ability / willingness to attempt a skilled weighted kick to advantage.  Hitting the target imperative as often as possible.

Getting the forward mix right (maybe next season!), the above (forward craft/cohesion with mids etc) plus a better return in front of the sticks.

That's the last, but seemingly the most elusive, missing piece of this team's puzzle from here.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[leave it to deever 15,952]

One of the biggest disappointments for me this year is the Grundy/ gawn combo.

Both average just over half a goal a game.

[Demonsone 1,617]

They were scoring easily in the 1st of the season, so what’s changed? It’s as if they have changed the game plan?

[Binmans PA 26,292]

1 minute ago, Demonsone said:

They were scoring easily in the 1st of the season, so what’s changed? It’s as if they have changed the game plan?

Yeah, I wonder why they would have changed their ball movement strategy during the middle of the year, just as they did in 2021 and 2022...?

I wonder what it could be...

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

55 minutes ago, A F said:

Yeah, I wonder why they would have changed their ball movement strategy during the middle of the year, just as they did in 2021 and 2022...?

I wonder what it could be...

A myriad of things, fatigue way down the bottom of the list. 

But whatever helps you take the losses easier cobba. 

[Binmans PA 26,292]

10 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

A myriad of things, fatigue way down the bottom of the list. 

But whatever helps you take the losses easier cobba. 

It's on your list though, isn't it? And why else would you change your ball movement mid season after being the highest scoring team to Round 10, using a direct central and corridor approach? Be interested to hear.

Goody clearly plays the percentages, so if fatigue is a problem/a factor, he and the coaches are likely to encourage more conservative ball movement...

Edited July 7, 2023 by A F

[beelzebub 22,244]

2 minutes ago, A F said:

It's on your list though, isn't it? And why else would you change your ball movement mid season after being the highest scoring team to Round 10, using a direct central and corridor approach? Be interested to hear.

Goody clearly plays the percentages, so if fatigue is a problem/a factor, he and the coaches are likely to encourage more conservative ball movement...

It makes no sense though ....if fatigue and tiredness are a concern,  or consequence of the mythical loading , to adopt a game style that is low percentage return on maximum effort.

That's plain dumb...surely.

[Binmans PA 26,292]

15 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

It makes no sense though ....if fatigue and tiredness are a concern,  or consequence of the mythical loading , to adopt a game style that is low percentage return on maximum effort.

That's plain dumb...surely.

No, our game is based around contest, so our ball movement is framed around ensuring the opposition doesn't have easy exits from our inside 50s after CP, and if we turn it over in transition, we'd prefer to turn it over in wider defendable areas, rather than the corridor. 

It has its downsides for sure. Lower scoring results, but if we have the ball the other team doesn't. The thing is we're not struggling to generate scores, we just can't kick straight.

Edited July 7, 2023 by A F

[Binmans PA 26,292]

So as fatigue lessens, you'll get more options as players can work their opponents into space, which opens up central channels and leading lanes. Central/corridor ball movement is then less risky with options present ahead and wide.

[beelzebub 22,244]

3 minutes ago, A F said:

No, our game is based around contest, so our ball movement is framed around ensuring the opposition doesn't have easy exits from our inside 50s after CP, and if we turn it over in transition, we'd prefer to turn it over in wider defendable areas, rather than the corridor. 

It has its downsides for sure. Lower scoring results, but if we have the ball the other team doesn't. The thing is we're not struggling to generate scores, we just can't kick straight.

If we controlled the ball better in the front half , we wouldn't need to expend as much energy in chaotic contesting. 

It will be interesting to see how we play tomorrow night.

 

[Watson11 1,910]

15 minutes ago, A F said:

It's on your list though, isn't it? And why else would you change your ball movement mid season after being the highest scoring team to Round 10, using a direct central and corridor approach? Be interested to hear.

Goody clearly plays the percentages, so if fatigue is a problem/a factor, he and the coaches are likely to encourage more conservative ball movement...

Maybe you would change ball movement based on the weather at this time of year.

A lot of talk about Goodys game style going inside 50 is to minimise risk, create stoppages, then setup to score on turnover. Ie a high stoppage game plan.

Its interesting that if we consider high stoppage games (>75 stoppages) to low stoppage games (<=75), we almost always lose high stoppage games (1w 5L) and almost always win low stoppage games (8w 1L). The outlier win was against the suns and the outlier loss was Port.

I don’t really know what it all means other than I’m hoping there are less stoppages this week.

[58er 5,630]

On 7/4/2023 at 4:38 AM, Cheap Seats said:

And player drop off as well.

Bbb nowhere near it.

Tmac could impact and kick straight, now nowhere to be seen.

Fritsch selfish and can't finish 

Koz is koz at least he can hit a target and make things happen.

Tracc can't finish

Our half forward are too defensive but that's a game style thing.

Grundy is ineffective I'd rather play schache

Gawn down on form.

Do we have anyone else? Just a complete [censored] show down there which is complicated by ineffective midfield ball use.

Viney is tough as nails but rarely hits anything. Although in fairness to him he's been better this year and has plenty of company.

 

Any thing good to say?? 

[Hawny for Gawny 403]

On 7/4/2023 at 1:21 AM, Soidee said:

I have no doubt they are playing to instruction, it happens every week.  The players in defence must be getting tired and emotional by now with all their hard work undone forward of centre.  This nonsense must be reigned in quickly or the team will get demoralised, Goodwin gave us a premiership and will always be held in high regard for this, however his coaching and pig headed approach to change will put us back in the pack.  Everyone can see what’s going on…..what’s his problem?

I think the problem isn't necessarily with Goody, his entire portfolio is a stingy scrappy defense, which we play impeccably, he obviously isn't the best offensive coach, that's where the staff come into play, they need to be helping him and they should all see that we have no attacking strategy.

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

15 hours ago, 58er said:

Any thing good to say?? 

Not recently no.