PREGAME: Rd 17 vs St. Kilda

[Jaded No More 68,976]

You cannot drop Kosi. No matter how 'down' on form he is, he is one of only two forwards in our side who can make something out of nothing, and is a reliable kick for goal.

Considering the other one might not play again this season, if you drop Kosi you might as well concede that we won't kick more than 5 goals a game. 

[DistrACTION Jackson 10,705]

If we don't reward good form in the VFL after that performance I am going to be ropeable. Get your head out of your a$$ Goodwin and ensure there are repercussions for poor form.

In: Woewodin, Oliver & van Rooyen

Out: Harmes, Smith & Fritsch

Chandler & ANB lucky because we literally have no other small forward options.

 

[layzie 34,528]

Kozzie is copping it hard on here. Not in great form I'm not disputing that but even with that in mind he was our best small forward yesterday and still managed to make a couple of things happen to get us back into the game. 

Drop someone else. 

[DistrACTION Jackson 10,705]

48 minutes ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

If we don't reward good form in the VFL after that performance I am going to be ropeable. Get your head out of your a$$ Goodwin and ensure there are repercussions for poor form.

In: Woewodin, Oliver & van Rooyen

Out: Harmes, Smith & Fritsch

Chandler & ANB lucky because we literally have no other small forward options.

 

Actually that's not enough.

Chandler out, AMW in.

Edited July 3, 2023 by DistrACTION Jackson

[Roost it far 10,097]

11 hours ago, MurDoc516 said:

What I want:

Taj Woewodin for Harmes
Jacob van Rooyen for Fritsch
Matthew Jefferson for Smith
Bailey Laurie for Chandler
James Jordon for Melksham

What I know will happen post listening to Goodwin's presser:

No change, maybe Melksham is in for Fritsch and Jordon as a sub. 

Jefferson played as the third tall in a vfl match and you want him in the ones? Jordan offers nothing new. The other 3 aren’t unlikely 

[Cranky Franky 2,270]

15 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

It was disgusting that he was dropped after a career best performance on KBDay against this year’s (more than likely)premiers 

It was a complete lack of selection in integrity and the players must be confused on what the base level of performance is to maintain their spot in the side.

Agree 100%. This nonsense unravelled our 2022 season.

[beelzebub 23,392]

1 hour ago, Grand New Flag said:

I know we are all disappointed, but we did not play that badly.  We one every statistic (most easily) except "GOALS".  We have played in the wet 4 of the last 5, been in winning positions in every game but have lost due ONLY to poor goal kicking.  This will turn, some dry weather footy under the roof on Saturday night will be welcomed by the team. Interestingly our only win in the last month was our only dry game.  Collingwood.

No need to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Tomlinson to play back

Petty to play forward

Rooey to replace Brown.

 

In: Rooey, Tomlinson

Out: Frita, Brown

 

You, and others, do realise the only STAT that truly matters....  IS .... Goals !!.. i.e tge Scoreboard.   There's no prize for winning a lot of trumped up innocuous stats...none whatsoever.  You only win via Goals and Points...and Goals far outway points.

All those stats have no real context as much becomes subjective... so all.it really tells you is we ran around all day accomplishing very little for the effort.

Not a stat but an extrapolation of all of them is to ask....why not ? Why weren't we more EFFECTIVE ?   So if you apparently have all the elements....but end up with a dogs breakfast what does that tell you.

Tells me we dont know what we're doing once we get it past the centre. We are literally clueless.  How can this be ? 

Is anyone prepared to put their hand up and say our forward game is 'good'... we're just unlucky ??

Good teams, clever teams don't end up with so many shots on goal with as many 'hard' ones as we do.  

We play a very defensive offence ( forward game)  . It's as though we set out to make it harder than it really ought to be. The number one priority as I observe , when we have the ball in our fwd 50 is to defend the ball. It's absurd really. The number one priority is to score. A condition of the scoring is to give yourselves the best chance by making scoring shots the easiest as can be.

Is it just me...we seem to attempt the polar opposite. 

Theyre all quite capable footballers.

So the real problem must be organisational. 

[DistrACTION Jackson 10,705]

1 hour ago, Roost it far said:

Jefferson played as the third tall in a vfl match and you want him in the ones? Jordan offers nothing new. The other 3 aren’t unlikely 

100% agree. Jefferson is nowhere near AFL level yet. Just because he kicked 4 goals in a 96 point win means absolutely nothing.

I watched that game and most of those were joe the gooses.

[Brownie 6,086]

Just watched Casey's massive win.

James Jordan just demanded to be selected. He must have about 40 possessions and delivered ball cleanly into our attacking 50. Ran very hard all day to find space.

JVR was the best of our forwards. The other tall forwards did well but JVR imposes himself up the field with leads and ground ball contests. Can't understand why he was dropped considering the conditions in Alice Yestyerday.

Taj Woewodin has been criticised for poor foot skills early in the year but he was pretty damaging yesterday too.

Those 3 have to come in.

Melksham, Harmes and Fritta the outs.

It was great to see an open forward line and fast moving plays yesterday (better conditions I know)

It was also great to watch our defence kick out after behinds and not actually know what they were going to do! Variation in methods. Amazing!
It made me wonder if a lot of our game plan at the seniors is that simplistic.
i.e. When we kick it out of defence, Kick to a pack and hope a tall marks it or our mids get the contested ball. 
When we enter our F50, kick it to a pack and hope a tall marks it or our small forwards snap a miracle goal.

Our defensive efforts and structure at both levels is really solid. We need to move the ball faster into our 50 or we are buggered this year again.

[Scoop Junior 3,582]

2 hours ago, Grand New Flag said:

I know we are all disappointed, but we did not play that badly.  We one every statistic (most easily) except "GOALS".  We have played in the wet 4 of the last 5, been in winning positions in every game but have lost due ONLY to poor goal kicking.  This will turn, some dry weather footy under the roof on Saturday night will be welcomed by the team. Interestingly our only win in the last month was our only dry game.  Collingwood.

 

That is incorrect. Our last 5 games were against Freo, Carlton, Collingwood, Geelong and GWS. Only the last two were wet.

[Brownie 6,086]

7 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

You, and others, do realise the only STAT that truly matters....  IS .... Goals !!.. i.e tge Scoreboard.   There's no prize for winning a lot of trumped up innocuous stats...none whatsoever.  You only win via Goals and Points...and Goals far outway points.

All those stats have no real context as much becomes subjective... so all.it really tells you is we ran around all day accomplishing very little for the effort.

Not a stat but an extrapolation of all of them is to ask....why not ? Why weren't we more EFFECTIVE ?   So if you apparently have all the elements....but end up with a dogs breakfast what does that tell you.

Tells me we dont know what we're doing once we get it past the centre. We are literally clueless.  How can this be ? 

Is anyone prepared to put their hand up and say our forward game is 'good'... we're just unlucky ??

Good teams, clever teams don't end up with so many shots on goal with as many 'hard' ones as we do.  

We play a very defensive offence ( forward game)  . It's as though we set out to make it harder than it really ought to be. The number one priority as I observe , when we have the ball in our fwd 50 is to defend the ball. It's absurd really. The number one priority is to score. A condition of the scoring is to give yourselves the best chance by making scoring shots the easiest as can be.

Is it just me...we seem to attempt the polar opposite. 

Theyre all quite capable footballers.

So the real problem must be organisational. 

Absolutely spot on.
Poor kicking for goal is just a symptom of the absolute chaos in our forward line right now.

You could see the difference at Casey once the three forwards got to compete one on one. A huge difference when the forward line does not have 20 players in it.

Petty forward is not the answer if we just keep kicking it on their heads to big packs.
We're not going to kick 10 goals each game through miraculous snaps in a congested forward line.
Every team is on to our predictable methods.

As you say, it's oranisational. Structure, process. It can not just be blamed on poor kicking at goal.
 

[Little Goffy 14,952]

Well, Van Rooyen in would have to be the most obvious change since Chris Judd played a WAFL game.

Smith has had four games in a month and produced one pretty good and one okay-ish, but clearly isn't delivering what we need and is the obvious out for Van Rooyen.

I'm a patient man but Nibbler lost me with the sheer number of times he took the ball and happily balled up in a tackle and let the play become a stoppage. He was like a pangolin out there and it cost us so much momentum so many times.

Harmes is fighting to restart his career but he needs to be doing that at VFL level until he's got some form on the board.

Melksham has one more game (currently on 99 for Demons) to play for us to become entitled to his successful sperm, and I can't see any other reason to have him out there again.

Like I said, I'm a patient man and still think Chandler can turn things back to his early season quality.

My thoughts on changes:

Smith out, Van Rooyen in is obvious.

Nibbler out, Woey in.

Harmes out, Jordon in.

Melksham sub out, Moniz-Wakefield sub in.

Obviously conditional on the status of Oliver and Fritsch.

[Demon Dynasty 17,164]

17 hours ago, SPC said:

Might be time for one of Gawn or Grundy to have a spell. Neither are playing well. 

Grundy as sub (at best).... should've happened weeks ago.

[The heart beats true 18,201]

10 hours ago, Bozo said:

 

I saw Faith No More twice in the mid 90’s. Both times Mike Patton was like Steven May after an opposition goal. 

A lot of finger pointing and angry looks at band mates. 

Edited July 3, 2023 by The heart beats true

[DeeSpencer 26,667]

Out: Brayshaw In: Oliver
Out: Grundy In: JVR
Out: Langdon In: Woey 
Out: ANB In: Laurie 
Out: Hunter In: Howes (Bowey wing)
Out: Harmes In: Turner (Riv on ball)
Out: Fritsch (inj) In: JJ

 

FB: McVee May Lever
HB: Howes Petty Salem
C; Woey Petracca Bowey
HF: Sparrow JVR  Chandler
FF: Smith BBB Pickett 
Foll: Gawn Rivers Oliver
Int: Turner Viney Laurie JJ
S: Melk

Obviously not all of those should happen and certainly not in one week, but given we have few if any solutions in the forwards we need to change the midfield. 

If you’re slow and can’t kick then get out of the kitchen. (Unfortunately Laurie’s slow and JJ can’t kick but at least they’re something different). 

[Demongirl35 1,134]

2 hours ago, picket fence said:

Laurie just hasnt got it!

Atm none of them do.. he needs a decent run at it. 

[Clintosaurus 7,953]

Hey @binman I'm guessing the training loads this week will be reduced from previous weeks?

I expect the players to be fresher on Saturday night than in recent weeks.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,136]

Assuming Oliver won't be back and that Fritsch will miss, I'd bring in van Rooyen to play Smith's role. Smith survives to play Fritch's role.

Harmes was a liability yesterday. I think it's either Jordon or someone new to replace him. If Howes is ready, does he come into the backline and Rivers goes midfield? Or is Woewodin the one who comes in as a direct replacement?

I'm unfussed about whether Melksham or Jordon (if he's not picked in the main squad) as the sub.

So, my suggested changes are:

Out: Fritsch (inj) and Harmes (omitted)

In: van Rooyen and one of Jordon/Howes/Woewodin

   

[Wodjathefirst 2,671]

I’m in desperate need of some optimism. No matter what the weather is going to be this coming game at least we know it’s going to be dry at the ground…..always look on the bright side of life ….. and turn up to support our boys.

[Dee-monic 620]

Permutations galore are being offered on ins, outs and formation. Sadly, none of them can hide the fact that delivery to our forwards has been poor, the forward line is itself dysfunctional with consistently poor goalkicking, and in Oliver's absence players like Harmes, ANB, Chandler and Jordon have failed to lift their game. Then there is the enigma of Pickett --- brilliant touches now and again, interspersed with periods of near-complete anonymity.

The Gawn-Grundy combination has not been as effective as hoped, and TMac, despite his critics, has really been missed. Goodwin seemingly can't make up his mind whether Petty is a forward or a back, and he seems afraid to try any of Casey's young guns such as Woewodin. Van Rooyen has potential but at present we simply don't have a Hawkins type forward who can crash packs to take marks, so surely there must be a plan B apart from simply launching long bombs into a congested area.

Even without our best player, Oliver, there is plenty of talent in the squad, but Goodwin can't seem to find a way to make us less predictable (or more accurate in front of goal). Never mind top-four chances, defeat to the Saints could see us on the brink of slipping out of the top eight. Over to you, Goody...........

Edited July 3, 2023 by Dee-monic

[dl4e 5,851]

Just put Petty at chf and bring Tomlinson in.

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,819]

6 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

If we wanted to save the season then we needed to start dropping the likes of ANB, Pickett and Chandler a few weeks ago.

ANB and Chandler need a rest in the magoo's, I'd be bringing in Spargo and giving Bowser a chance as a crumbing forward knows where the goals are.

I'll give Brown two weeks to produce something or revert back to the Petty experiment.

[Purple77 1,025]

I'd be interested to see how Joel Smith goes in the Fritsch role, alongside JVR and Brown.

I think Spargo gets a bad rap too. For a team so desperate for forward connection, it seems counter productive to leave him out. If it were me

In: Spargo, Clarry, JVR

Out: Fritsch, Harmes, Chandler, Melksham (sub)

Wouldn't be upset if Woey had a go in place of ANB either. But suspect we won't go there yet.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Purple77

[Jaded No More 68,976]

6 minutes ago, dl4e said:

Just put Petty at chf and bring Tomlinson in.

Without Fritsch, this must surely be the way forward.

We will not win a flag with a forward combination of Gawn/BB/Smith. We just won't.

[beelzebub 23,392]

3 minutes ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

ANB and Chandler need a rest in the magoo's, I'd be bringing in Spargo and giving Bowser a chance as a crumbing forward knows where the goals are.

I'll give Brown two weeks to produce something or revert back to the Petty experiment.

Maybe Chandler gets a rest...... ANB seems wedded to Goody. Goody likes his 'efforts' . All very commendable but the game is won on outcomes. Trying alone is inconsequential....achieving is what it's really about..

We tried hard yesterday; ran ourselves ragged doing so. Achieved little.

If ever the maxim " work smarter, not harder' had relevance it must be now.

Dont expect to see Bullen at Casey anytime soon.....unless we're training there.